Re: Here's something that WORKED years ago
 

> "Many" yars ago I watched a guy
> start up a similar "Ad Paper". It
> was only ads in categories and the paper was
> sold at gas stations and convenient stores.
> He went on to build a huge operation and
> then sold it to a larger firm who let it
> die. But during the first few years he made
> a bundle using 2 techniques;
> 1) Sell the ad paper for 25cents and give
> the location 10cents on each one (15cents if
> it's a good location)

Excellent idea! However, one problem I see in selling the "Ad Paper" is the competition. There are at least 4 "Ad Papers" with well established distributions, that are given away free. For this reason, I believe It would be difficult to convince somone to pay to get my publication when others are available for free.

Anyways, I am leaning towards just offering the the gas stations rent for floor space.

> Each ad had a "phone number" for
> readers to call and the ad was run UNTIL THE
> AD WAS PAID!

> SO...if someone chose not to pay for the
> ad...they would CONTINUE TO RECEIVE CALLS!

This is a wickedly clever idea! I will put this in my bag of tricks.

Re: Why just gas stations?
 

I have been doing this for two years.

We started a publication from scratch.

We place them in gas stations/convenience stores..

but there are several places that are much better

that give you better results:

* Doctor/Dentist offices
* Customer lounge at automobile dealerships
* Busy restaurants
* Places where people are waiting!

We have over 750 locations that we "drop-off" distribute our publication...without paying a dime.

The "secret" is multple streams of distribution...and FREE!

Let me know if I can help.

Bobby

Can I pick your brains for info?
 

Thank you for your response.

> I have been doing this for two years.

> We started a publication from scratch.

What type of publication is it? I mean what are its primary contents...classified ads only, editorial etc? Did you already have a background in this field or did you learn as you went along?
If you learned as went along, are there any resources that you would reccomend for a upstart like myself, you has no experience what so ever in publishing?

> We place them in gas stations/convenience
> stores..

Do you use your own newsracks or do you place them on them same newstands that all the other publications are on? What arrangement do you have with the gas stations/conveniance store owner? I mean how did you convince them to allow you to place your publication at their place of business?

> but there are several places that are much
> better

> that give you better results:

> * Doctor/Dentist offices
> * Customer lounge at automobile dealerships
> * Busy restaurants
> * Places where people are waiting!

> We have over 750 locations that we
> "drop-off" distribute our
> publication...without paying a dime.

Did you have to ask permission to distribute your publication at any of those 750 locations? Did you have to offer them something in return? Do you hire someone to distribute them or do you do it your self?

> The "secret" is multple streams of
> distribution...and FREE!

> Let me know if I can help.

> Bobby

My oringinal motivation for starting a publication was to use it as marketing tool for my real estate investing business. It will allow me to market to both home sellers and buyers more effectively than other marketing mediums. However, the more I looked into it, it dawned on me that it can be a profit center also. Any way there was a specific reason why I was focusing own gas stations. You see, I consider the gas station the ultimate "point of convergence". Most home sellers and buyers own cars and all cars have to be refueled sooner or later. Thus many several times a week potential propects must go to the gas station hince the term "point of convergence". Propects will see my newsrack, with my publication when they step inside to pay for their. There are about 60-70 gas stations in my city. I figure if I place a newsrack with my publication at all of these gas stations, then I can will achieve near 100% exposure to every prospect since they all have to gas sooner or later. That is way I am focusing.

Did you see a flaw in my reason for focusing on gas stations?

Re: Can I pick your brains for info?
 

> What type of publication is it? I mean what
> are its primary contents...classified ads
> only, editorial etc?

Osirus....it is a monthly golf publication.How did we decide that our publication would be
golf related?

I'd like to be able to tell you that it was because we researched every forum (like this one:) that we could find...and looked at what was already being published in my area....(we did that later)....but the initial idea came while we were trying to buy a tax preparation franchise!

We had been in meetings for 3 days and I was walking through a mall (another good place to put your publication!) and I came across a magazine that caught my eye. I pick ed it up and when I got back to my hotel...I began to read it.

The magazine was local....so I called the publisher up and explained that I was 600 miles away and not a competitor....and I was curious
if they sold franchises or would help me start a similar publication.

They weren't ready to franchise...but they had put together a "How-To-Manual" and had several people across the country publishing a similar
golf magazine.

I had a "gut feeling" about the publication
...isn't it funny how that "inner voice" talks to you sometimes?....

So, I bought their "How-To-Manual" for $495...

Told the tax franchise folks..thanks but no thanks!...and came home.

After spending a couple of days on the net, in the library and visiting a couple of golf courses
...we realized that golfers aren't afraid to spend $100 for a round of golf or $32 for a dozen golf balls ...or $400 for a driver!

Our publication is not a "Glossy Golf Digest" type of publication. It's pretty basic. It's primary content is golf information from area golf courses, tips,...it's information that golfers can't get anywhere else. We even have articles/stories that are written each month by sports doctors...(and we don't pay them a penny for the articles!)

I have no background in publishing....

(I was a financial consultant for 18 years)

I am a 18 handicap golfer....played once a month.

So, anyone reading this post is likely a better candidate than I am to publish a golf publication.

Now, let me see if I can answer your other questions:

Newsracks: Are expensive! They "walk off"! We had
some made (50 or so), bought some from publishers
going out of business....but mostly place them on the counters or coffee tables. Stay away from racks if possible.

How do you convince gas stations-conveniance stores to place your publication in their business?

(1) I simply walk in, smile, and ask them can I

place this month's issue on their shelve!

"It's about local golfers, local golf courses

and community fund raising events..I notice

that you have (1 or 2 or 3) a golf course

right down the round...I bet you get a lot

of golfers coming in."

(2) if that doesn't work..I tell them that we

will list them in our magazine as a

distribution site...and they will get FREE

publicity.

(3) If that doesn't work...and I really want to

be in that spot..I'll bribe them! (by placing

a small ad of for their business in next

months issue....I make it a point to tell

them what it would cost them...so that they

realize that the are getting value in

exchange for their 80 inches of space.

ONE VERY IMPORTANT TIP!

Don't get hung up on one gas station/location. Why? Because 99 % of the time when you go in, you are not dealing with the owners.

You are dealing with folks who make minimum wage...and the only way that they have any control or power over anything in that gas station...is by telling you NO!

If they say no....I guarantee that if you go back 8 hours later...someone knew will be there and they will probably tell you "Yes"!

Ask and you will receive! If they say NO! this month, ask again next month.

Just don't get hung up on one gas station!

Using a publication for a marketing tool can be very lucrative....as long as you don't forget
that it is not your main forte.

I also use my golf publication for my real etate investing.

As a matter of fact, we were able to barter advertising space in our publication for painting, carpet, etc.....

so, if you really want to take your real estate investment business to another level....

trade advertising in your publication for advertising in other publications that will reach your "Potential Buyers & Sellers" that you want
want to reach...

Just don't get hung up on any one source (gas station) of getting your message out.

Make some offers!

Bobby

Re: Can I pick your brains for info?
 

> Osirus. . it is a monthly golf
> publication. How did we decide that our
> publication would be
> golf related?

Out of curiosity, how many pages are each issue? Also, what are your monthly printing cost? Do you use a local printer?



> I had a "gut feeling" about the
> publication
> . .isn't it funny how that "inner
> voice" talks to you sometimes?. .

I know exactly what you mean.

> So, I bought their "How-To-Manual"
> for $495. .

Do you have their contact info? Do they have a website? Could their info apply to starting a publication about something other than golf?



> Our publication is not a "Glossy Golf
> Digest" type of publication. It's
> pretty basic.

What software do you use to create the publication? I was planning on to use Microsoft Word.

It's primary content is golf
> information from area golf courses,
> tips,. .it's information that golfers can't
> get anywhere else.

Am I correct in assuming that you generate revenue by advertisements and classified ads? How do you handle payments. . cash only, check, credit card? Also how do you handle billing. . pay in advance or do you send advertisers a bill?

Do you use a have a website tied in with your publication?



> Newsracks: Are expensive! They "walk
> off"! We had
> some made (50 or so), bought some from
> publishers
> going out of business. . but mostly place
> them on the counters or coffee tables. Stay
> away from racks if possible.

I figured newsracks would be expensive to build. I also realize that they can and will get stolen or "walk off" as you like to put it. However, there is a reason that I am so adamant about using newsracks.
Banditsigns are by far the best way to attract home sellers; so I have been told. I have never used them myself. Banditsigns are those signs you see placed at public rights of way. They normally advertise "get rich quick" schemes, "Lose weight now", and of coarse "We Buy Houses". The only problem is that they are ILLEGAL! Just about every city has a city ordinance against them. In addition, several weeks ago, I read an article in local newspaper about how code enforcement is cracking on bandit signs in my city. I am choosing not to use this form of advertising and for that reason and others.
I believe that newsrack placed at gas stations would achieve the same effect as illegal bandit signs. I can place the banditsigns on the racks themselves and since gas stations are private property; no code enforcement issues!

In addition, the newsrack itself could be another profit center. I can have the newsrack constructed so that several bandit signs could placed on them and have multiple selves. Next I could charge businesses a fee for allowing them to place their own bandit signs on my newsrack and placing their own flyers inside my newsrack. I am certain that the profits from real estate investing will more than pay for the expense and upkeep of newsracks.

> How do you convince gas stations-convenience
> stores to place your publication in their
> business?

> (1) I simply walk in, smile, and ask them
> can I

> place this month's issue on their shelve!

> "It's about local golfers, local golf
> courses

> and community fund raising events. I notice

> that you have (1 or 2 or 3) a golf course

> right down the round. .I bet you get a lot

> of golfers coming in."

> (2) if that doesn't work. I tell them that
> we

> will list them in our magazine as a

> distribution site. .and they will get FREE

> publicity.

> (3) If that doesn't work. .and I really want
> to

> be in that spot. I'll bribe them! (by
> placing

> a small ad of for their business in next

> months issue. . I make it a point to tell

> them what it would cost them. .so that they

> realize that the are getting value in

> exchange for their 80 inches of space.

Excellent script to follow. What do you mean by "exchange for their 80 inches of space." ?

> ONE VERY IMPORTANT TIP!

> Don't get hung up on one gas
> station/location. Why? Because 99 % of the
> time when you go in, you are not dealing
> with the owners.

I thought about this problem. Here are some solutions I think might work.
1. Call each gas station with the pretext that I urgently need to speak with the owner and arrange to me them.
2. Use the public records to find their contact info and mail them a letter.


> I also use my golf publication for my real
> estate investing.

What is your focus in real estate investing, fixers, rentals, creative real estate etc? Visit this site: http://www.creonline.com/wwwboard/index.html It is online forum for creative real estate investing. I have other website that I frequent. If you would like links to those as well let me know.

> As a matter of fact, we were able to barter
> advertising space in our publication for
> painting, carpet, etc. . .

> so, if you really want to take your real
> estate investment business to another
> level. .

> trade advertising in your publication for
> advertising in other publications that will
> reach your "Potential Buyers &
> Sellers" that you want
> want to reach. .

That is exactly what I had in mind!

I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. Gosh, it is fun and somewhat overwhelming when you have this great idea to accomplish something; yet have nothing from your previous life experience to draw from. This is why it is important to have kind individuals like you; who have "been there and done that" to draw from.

Thank you

Re: "Picked-Over Brains"
 

Osirus...Be careful what you ask for!

My first edition was 8 pages.

We are currently doing 32 pages and will probably be doing 64 by the end of the year.

Our monthly printing costs vary depending on amount of color used...

We tried to use a local printer...but the cost was prohibitive! We are presently using a printer
300 miles away.

What software do we use to create the publication?

We use a PC & a program called Pagemaker.

Printers and Graphic people talk a entirely different language.....they use MacIntosh Computers and programs like Quark.

Personally, I'm not sure that I would use Word.

Once I found a printer I would ask what they prefer (They may have older equipment)

Advertisements is the fuel that makes the publication go.

Payments accompany the ads....no payment...no ads.

Advertisers that contract for 6 months or 1 year are billed 15 days BEFORE the issue is printed.

Again....no payment....no ad.

We have a website...but have not been able to keep it updated as we would like....I know, I Know, I know....we do not want to even consider trying to muddy the waters by selling space on our website.

Our market is local....not global.

I really do not care to spend $$$$ so that someone in Australia or England can view my publication.

My market is local..and especially if you are using your publication to market your real estate business.

As far as newsracks are concerned....we have a guy in our area that has a publication (That
wasn't generating enough avertising revenue...so he started calling on local business and sold them on the idea of letting HIM put a multi-tier rack in their business.

He gets them to sign a contract.....He then charges $25 a month for other folks (like me)
to place their publications in his rack.

The problem is the initial cost of the racks....
and you mentioned "I am certain that the profits from real estate investing will more than pay for the expense and upkeep of newsracks."....if you start implementing this marketing approach next
week....

your expense is 80 gas stations X $100 or $150

=$8,000-$12,000...and when you start to write

that check....how much profit from the real

estate investing side have you realized?

Osirus....understand...I am not lecturing...

I am simply saying that if you start any

publication there are hidden costs that you

cannot begin to imagine....and spending BIG

BUCKS buying/building racks is a luxury that a

lot of smaller publications cannot afford...

especially when most publications fold in the

first two years. (Remember "GEORGE" magazine, the

idea of JFK, Jr,)

Can't you just imagine a board room room of yuppies sitting around with their Starbucks
expressos saying,

"Dude...we spent a gazillion dollars on these magazine racks..If we just had that money back..we could draw at least one more paycheck!"

Let me give you another scenario...

Before you start your publication...look around your area.

I'll bet my $100 against your $10 that there is
at least 2-3 other publications that you could call and say...

Hi! my name is osirus and I publish a magazine called, "Osirus' Trading Post" ....would you be interested in placing an ad in our publication advertising your magazine...in exchange for us placing the same size ad in yours?

In the past 12 months ,I've placed my real estate
investing ad in telephone directories, Real Estate
publications, Senior Magazines, etc....

Anywhere that I could find a publication that would reach the folks that I am trying to reach..
I place my "We Buy Houses" ad....and believe me, it's much easier than walking into a gas station
and finding your racks missing, or full of flyers
that cover your publication, or broke because the
Coca Cola route drive stacked drinks on them!

I think that we are both saying the same thing...
only in a different way.

Try the racks...let me know how they work in your area.

If you are not careful you will find yourself majoring in minor activities ...instead of what you really would like to do....making offers on properties!

Email me your mailing address & I'll be glad to send you a copy of our publication.

Make some $$$ today!

Bobby

Re: "Picked-Over Brains"
 

> Osirus...Be careful what you ask for!

> My first edition was 8 pages.

> We are currently doing 32 pages and will
> probably be doing 64 by the end of the year.

> Our monthly printing costs vary depending on
> amount of color used...

> We tried to use a local printer...but the
> cost was prohibitive! We are presently using
> a printer
> 300 miles away.

300 miles away! Gosh! I live in North Central Florida. Thats like me driving a trip to Miami once a month!

Do you have someone go pick the publications or does the printing company arrange for delivery?

> What software do we use to create the
> publication?

> We use a PC & a program called
> Pagemaker.
> Printers and Graphic people talk a entirely
> different language.....they use MacIntosh
> Computers and programs like Quark.

> Personally, I'm not sure that I would use
> Word.

I have heard Pagemaker mentioned several times during my research into this project. However, why not use Word? Although, I have never used them before, Word seems to have all the features needed to produce the publication I envision. I can anchor pictures to the screen and make the text flow around it. I can create newspaper like columns with a few mouse clicks. Also, I can overlay text on top of graphics. In addition, I can set things up as a template. This allows me to do the work once of setting up the layout of the publication not having to start from scratch the next time I need to publish. Lastly, I know Word and use it daily.

Are there critical, need to have, features and abilities in Pagemaker that will make production more easy and efficient?

> Once I found a printer I would ask what they
> prefer (They may have older equipment)

Are saying that you must modify your publication to fit their equipment?

> Advertisements is the fuel that makes the
> publication go.

> Payments accompany the ads....no
> payment...no ads.

> Advertisers that contract for 6 months or 1
> year are billed 15 days BEFORE the issue is
> printed.

> Again....no payment....no ad.

Excellent policy to have!

> We have a website...but have not been able
> to keep it updated as we would like....I
> know, I Know, I know....we do not want to
> even consider trying to muddy the waters by
> selling space on our website.

> Our market is local....not global.

> I really do not care to spend $$$$ so that
> someone in Australia or England can view my
> publication.

I understand, however you may be cutting yourself out of potential profit centers.
1. Increase your ad rates and justify the increase with the added value of having a website linked to their classified ad.
2. Give advertisers a webage to display their goods with pictures and charge an additional fee.
3. Give charge people to place banner signs on your webpage.
4.Use the web to completely automate the ad taking and billing. This will leave you more time to pursue other things
5. Advertisers can use your Website in all their other marking thus driving more traffic to your website.

Now that I think about it.... this might be more complicated and involved than I thought;-D I do not know enough about website builiding to do any of this. This means I would have to learn or hire someone to do it for me! But I do believe that it is well worth the effort.

> My market is local..and especially if you
> are using your publication to market your
> real estate business.

> As far as newsracks are concerned....we have
> a guy in our area that has a publication
> (That
> wasn't generating enough avertising
> revenue...so he started calling on local
> business and sold them on the idea of
> letting HIM put a multi-tier rack in their
> business.

> He gets them to sign a contract.....He then
> charges $25 a month for other folks (like
> me)
> to place their publications in his rack.

> The problem is the initial cost of the
> racks....
> and you mentioned "I am certain that
> the profits from real estate investing will
> more than pay for the expense and upkeep of
> newsracks."....if you start
> implementing this marketing approach next
> week....

> your expense is 80 gas stations X $100 or
> $150

> =$8,000-$12,000...and when you start to
> write

I want my newsracks to look good! So figure $13000-$15000 :-D

> that check....how much profit from the real

> estate investing side have you realized?

> Osirus....understand...I am not lecturing...

> I am simply saying that if you start any

> publication there are hidden costs that you

> cannot begin to imagine....and spending BIG

> BUCKS buying/building racks is a luxury that
> a

> lot of smaller publications cannot afford...

> especially when most publications fold in
> the

> first two years.

It is funny? You made me rethink me distribution plan from one of your previous post. I will focus on putting my publication at the freebie sights that you posted about before. None-the-less, I still believe in the newsrack at the gas station idea. However, as you pointed out, it is cost prohibitive to do all at once. Therefore, I will take the incremental approach and gradually approach each gas station over time. This way I am not having to write one large check but a bunch of smaller checks.

> Let me give you another scenario...

> Before you start your publication...look
> around your area.

> I'll bet my $100 against your $10 that there
> is
> at least 2-3 other publications that you
> could call and say...

> Hi! my name is osirus and I publish a
> magazine called, "Osirus' Trading
> Post" ....would you be interested in
> placing an ad in our publication advertising
> your magazine...in exchange for us placing
> the same size ad in yours?

This goes back to the bartering thing you mentioned?

> In the past 12 months ,I've placed my real
> estate
> investing ad in telephone directories, Real
> Estate
> publications, Senior Magazines, etc....

> Anywhere that I could find a publication
> that would reach the folks that I am trying
> to reach..
> I place my "We Buy Houses"
> ad....and believe me, it's much easier than
> walking into a gas station
> and finding your racks missing, or full of
> flyers
> that cover your publication, or broke
> because the
> Coca Cola route drive stacked drinks on
> them!

I see your point.

> I think that we are both saying the same
> thing...
> only in a different way.

> Try the racks...let me know how they work in
> your area.

> If you are not careful you will find
> yourself majoring in minor activities
> ...instead of what you really would like to
> do....making offers on properties!

> Email me your mailing address & I'll be
> glad to send you a copy of our publication.

> Make some $$$ today!

> Bobby

I will take you up on that offer!

Re: Why not use Word
 

I had to address this point. As background, I currently work as a technical writer and when I started in this position, our team used Word exclusively. We now use FrameMaker (not PageMaker, although I am equally familiar with both) exclusively and, in all seriousness, our productivity has doubled over the days when we used Word.

> I have heard Pagemaker mentioned several
> times during my research into this project.
> However, why not use Word? Although, I have
> never used them before, Word seems to have
> all the features needed to produce the
> publication I envision. I can anchor
> pictures to the screen and make the text
> flow around it. I can create newspaper like
> columns with a few mouse clicks. Also, I can
> overlay text on top of graphics. In
> addition, I can set things up as a template.
> This allows me to do the work once of
> setting up the layout of the publication not
> having to start from scratch the next time I
> need to publish. Lastly, I know Word and use
> it daily.

If you really want to use Word, you can. But you will probably only do it once. After that, you will either give up on publishing or find a way to use something else.

Why? In a word: stability.

MS Word is notoriously un-stable. Yes it has lots of features, but it's features either do not work well or do not work well with each other. Certain features (like master documents and numbering) have been broken for several versions with no sign that they will be fixed in the future.

Plus, while many people say that they "know" Word, in fact very few know how to set up a document properly, using consistently applied styles and a minimum of manual formatting. Most people waste an inordinate amount of time formatting documents in Word because the document was not set up properly from the beginning -- and even then, Word sometimes pulls a "gotcha." (I don't know if this point applies to you, but I'll mention it here because it is SO common.)

Also, even if you do get a document to look the way you want on your computer, it's an entirely different thing to have it appear that way on someone else's computer (particularly your printer's). Most likely, if you give a printer a Word doc to print, it will come back to you looking very different from what you thought. Neither FrameMaker nor PageMaker (nor especially Acrobat PDFs) have this problem -- in fact, most documents created with those programs look the same even when the computers are different platforms.

(Alternately, as I implied, you could get around this problem to some degree by converting your Word file to an Acrobat PDF file. I know a lot of printers accept PDF files now.)

As a last stab, Microsoft Press actually uses FrameMaker to publish many (most?) of it's books.

Best,
Phil

Re: "Picked-Over Brains"
 

> 300 miles away! Gosh! I live in North
> Central Florida. Thats like me driving a
> trip to Miami once a month!

> Do you have someone go pick the publications
> or does the printing company arrange for
> delivery?

They will deliver.

> I have heard Pagemaker mentioned several
> times during my research into this project.
> However, why not use Word? Although, I have
> never used them before, Word seems to have
> all the features needed to produce the
> publication I envision. I can anchor
> pictures to the screen and make the text
> flow around it. I can create newspaper like
> columns with a few mouse clicks. Also, I can
> overlay text on top of graphics. In
> addition, I can set things up as a template.
> This allows me to do the work once of
> setting up the layout of the publication not
> having to start from scratch the next time I
> need to publish. Lastly, I know Word and use
> it daily.

Then use word....just make sure that it is no problem for the printer.

> Are there critical, need to have, features
> and abilities in Pagemaker that will make
> production more easy and efficient?

> Are saying that you must modify your
> publication to fit their equipment?

Nope! ...but just as you've stated earlier...your prference is Word....your printer may have a preference.

> Excellent policy to have!

> I understand, however you may be cutting
> yourself out of potential profit centers.

You are correct..ad rates are a funny subject...
and it's hard to compare apples & oranges...
and ad selling, while not rocket science, is an
educational process.

I'm not knocking web link advertising...but I haven't lost a sale because I didn't offer a link to their website.

> 1. Increase your ad rates and justify the
> increase with the added value of having a
> website linked to their classified ad.
> 2. Give advertisers a webage to display
> their goods with pictures and charge an
> additional fee.
> 3. Give charge people to place banner signs
> on your webpage.
> 4.Use the web to completely automate the ad
> taking and billing. This will leave you more
> time to pursue other things
> 5. Advertisers can use your Website in all
> their other marking thus driving more
> traffic to your website.

> Now that I think about it.... this might be
> more complicated and involved than I
> thought;-D I do not know enough about
> website builiding to do any of this.

This means I would have to learn or hire someone to do it for me!

But I do believe that it is well worth the effort.

time + effort = $$$$

> I want my newsracks to look good! So figure
> $13000-$15000 :-D

> It is funny? You made me rethink me
> distribution plan from one of your previous
> post. I will focus on putting my publication
> at the freebie sights that you posted about
> before. None-the-less, I still believe in
> the newsrack at the gas station idea.
> However, as you pointed out, it is cost
> prohibitive to do all at once. Therefore, I
> will take the incremental approach and
> gradually approach each gas station over
> time. This way I am not having to write one
> large check but a bunch of smaller checks.

If I had to start all over again, I probaly would re-think and change just one element of my marketing approach....simply from angle that I didn't consider before......

> This goes back to the bartering thing you
> mentioned?

Cash is so impersonal....trade red Rome apples for yellow delicious apples!

> I see your point.

> I will take you up on that offer!

Will get it out to you today....will include my phone number...call me if I can help!

Bobby

Re: Phil...That's What I Meant...Yea, That's The Ticket! (DNO)