Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

Just wondering if anyone else, male or female, is having some questions raised about the latest from the 'Rich Jerk'? Seems like he's hosting a bachelor type marketing party via the Playboy Club.

Despite being 'invited' several times, I ask you: what woman in her right mind would even consider putting herself in such a situation, assuming it was 'allowed' unless she was bunny type herself? Get real, folks!

This is no more a marketing get together (despite the list of attendees) than it is a kids birthday party...but you can bet our taxes will be increased to pay for all the 'business write-offs' as a result of it.

I most strenuously object to such obvious sexism...charity or not. Just a variation on the 'old boys club' that women who wanted to conduct business had to fight against for years.

I know boys will be boys and that's okay in its place. IMHO it has no place in business.

Sandi Bowman

Re: Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

Since you got everyone Curious. :)

Easier to offer comments Now...

It's a Fundraiser... ;)
http://richjerkplayboyparty.com/

Phil

Re: Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

I believe I mentioned in my post that it was 'for charity', Phil.

I guess the thing that really set me off was NOT John Reese's invitation, which he handled very discreetly and with appropriate disclaimers, but one of the others that had numerous pictures of the 'bunny' gals and so on (and no warnings prior to access). Some were quite inappropriate to have been sent to homes where young children could see them. Since it was a requested list mailing it would not have been caught by filters. I unsubscribed from that one because he obviously lacked common sense and consideration.

Anyway....for what it's worth...charity or fundraiser makes no difference, my basic objection still stands.

Sandi Bowman

Re: Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

Sandi,

I was just trying to lighten things up and get the comments going. :)

But I Agree, some marketers need to take some Lessons from John Reese, Frank Kern and others who know where to draw the line...

I'll just post John Reese's ending to his email (hope that's ok)...

As he shares some Smart comments and an interesting resource that'll add some Value to this discussion...

Phil

BY THE WAY...

My good friend, Michel Fortin, recently forwarded
me the URL to a killer presentation by Guy Kawsaki.

Guy makes a powerful point in his presentation when
he says (just paraphrasing)...

"With your marketing you want to polarize people...
you either want to make them LOVE YOU or
HATE YOU... you don't want people to have
just a neutral feeling."

This is exactly why "The Wealthy Idiot" has
been successful with that controversial approach.

I highly recommend you watch this marketing
presentation. Tons of amazing stuff in it:
http://zentation.com/

Yours For Online Profits,

John Reese

Re: Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

Thanks, Phil. I guess I sounded harsher than intended. My apologies.

Agree with the polarizing people, BUT one must do so carefully and diplomatically. I don't believe it is necessary to be unduly offensive to have intelligent differing viewpoints expressed. Rabble rousing just for the sake of rabble rousing is counter-productive.

Sandi Bowman

Re: Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

Sandi,

Thanks for letting us know.

What this does is, loses my respect for ALL the Testimonial givers. And shows me they have No Class and are just as big a Yobbo as the guy down the pub that drools over the skanky-ho magazines.

And it's no different than hiring a room and having some strippers come over. The fundamentals are still the same. He's just trying to legitimize it by saying it's for charity.

The man could Give me a ticket and pay for my time and airfares and accommodation over there and I still would Not go.

Michael Ross

Re: Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

Sandi and Michael,

I agree wholeheartedly. There's no amount of fundraising or business marketing that could be generated that would justify being a part of such an event.

I expect a number of the named attendees will see some dropped memberships/subscriptions to their websites, ezines, opt-in lists, forums, etc.

Dennis Bevers
BASSCO, Inc.

Re: Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

Hello All,

I haven't posted to the site in awhile but I did want to chime in on what Sandi said. I as a woman was taken aback (to say the least) when I got the same email she did that linked to pix of the Playmates in skimpy bikinis - with a guy clearly staring at one's boobs.:eek: I couldn't imagine any business woman being comfortable going to a function like that. I live in Los Angeles & my best friend's husband is a producer for Playboy TV & I know that "business" is not what happens at those affairs. I saw this as just a flimsy excuse for the "Boys" to have a party at Heff's pad. There may be business conducted that weekend, but I doubt it will be at the mansion.

My 2 Cents,
Cynthia

There you go - I thought that all us gals could
 

turn up in demure party frocks and embarrass everyone :eek:

A "don't let the b ...s grind you down" sort of moment.

:D

My guess is that the presence of a bevy of entrepreneures of the feminine variety might well put a complete dampener on the event. I just love that thought. The picture makes me chuckle.

... seriously, though, it's a tacky idea and not one that would make me fly over from Scotland.

Re: Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

Margaret, your reply made me chuckle.

Can you imagine how UNDER-dressed all those bunnys would feel if we all showed up dressed to the nines in elegant formal wear? LOL...now there's a thought.

Agree...it wouldn't be worth it.

What gets me is...if this is such a big charity fundraiser, why not just donate the money it cost to rent the Playboy Club facilities and forget the rest of the hoopla? That way no one need risk their reputation getting smeared or being subject to possible extortion by someone who doesn't care about a piece of paper called a non-disclosure agreement or the potential consequences.

To paraphrase an old saying:'if you frequent sewers, beware of the rats!'

Sandi Bowman

Re: Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

What makes you think that the Playboy club would be charging for this?? :rolleyes:

It's probably a special deal because they're getting a huge amount of free publicity.

Margaret

Re: Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

Margaret,

What makes you think the Playboy Club and Hugh Heffner need free publicity?

Somebody has to pay all those guards, bunnys and bouncers not to mention the maintenance crews and overhead.

Hugh knows a soft touch when he sees one and the rich jerk craves notoriety like a hungry man craves steak and cake. If he's not paying...somebody's looking like a fool. You can bet it isn't Hugh.

Sandi Bowman

You're right!
 

... I'd forgotten about the "charming" Mr Heffner. Whatever the deal struck, we're never likely to know.

Meantime, I'm away to make bunny stew - aaargh, well, maybe not. More likely to be a Sunday roast :D

Enjoy the rest of the weekend.

Margaret

We're not the only ones who are saying 'No way...RJ'
 

I just got a newsletter update from Mark Hendricks and he won't be attending it either. Of course, he is hosting a 2 day seminar in Atlanta at that time but, from what he said, he wouldn't promote the subject of this thread anyway.

Bravo, folks! It takes guts to stand up and say 'No way...' against the likes of some of the guru names that are promoting it etc.

As for the changed items on one of Phil's posts, I'm glad it's changed but the rationalizing I see there seems laughable to me. C'mon, folks, a couple of hours pre-party for networking? Guess what the topic of conversation and speculation will be? Hint: it won't be internet business. Duh!

Sandi Bowman

P.S. What? No bunny stew, Margaret? LOL. You're right this time!

Re: Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

Thank you Sandi. I was beginning to think I was caught in a time warp until I found your post and the resulting discussion.

I had made a blog post on this subject a couple of days ago titled, "Why Are These Guys Associating Themselves with The Sexist Homophobic Rich Jerk?"

I started a thread on a relatively new Internet marketing forum called "ForumKnowHow". I anticipated that some members of that forum would disagree with what I said (click here to read my blog post) but I had no idea that every single member who responded disagreed with me, accused me of imposing my moral views on others, of being "politically correct," of not understanding a good marketing plan, of being opposed to free speech, etc., etc.

The owner of the forum, Robert Puddy, threatened to "lock" the thread because he said it was a "pointless" discussion. After I responded to some of the posts I agreed that if I kept debating back and forth with them that it probably wouldn't serve much purpose--since it was clear we disagreed and weren't going to change each others' minds. However, I said that I hoped he didn't lock down the thread because it had only been up for half a day and other members might have some unique perspectives and insights that we might all learn from.

I went to bed thinking, "there's got to be some women and enlightened men who belong to this forum who will post tomorrow." Oh, I forgot to mention that all the people who posted were men. After getting my daughter some breakfast and ready for summer camp I checked my email. I had received some notices of comments on the thread I had started, I clicked the link to see what other members had said, and then received a message that read, "that thread does not exist."

The owner had deleted the entire thread.

Rather ironic that with all the talk about the Rich Jerk's "right to free speech" that the thread was censored, don't you think?

So it was like a breath of fresh air to find this forum. Thank you for taking the initiative and to all those who responded.

All the Best,

Mark

Re: Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

Glad you found us, Mark.

Thanks for sharing your experience and comments.

Sandi Bowman

Re: We're not the only ones who are saying 'No way...RJ'
 

Interesting on how RJ's sales page has Changed from the original link I posted...

He Obviously received Lots of Negative feedback...

But that Doesn't change the Event in any way...

I Won't be Surprised if this Event ends up on the Chopping block... As Canceled... :)

Putting that aside for a moment... To add a Positive note on the RJ...

Some still might not know that RJ is actually Kelly Felix...

Not unlike Many SowPubbers & Visitors who have had a Dream of starting a Business...

The Key in posting this is to show that “Kelly Felix” took some Serious Action in starting his business and just added a Controversial “twist” into the swing of things...

Even though it's an Affiliate's site and a business model that has changed Big Time, it's a Good read on the Rich Jerk... Kelly Felix...
http://tinyurl.com/2sla76

Phil

Re: Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

I am on Mark Hendricks newsletter list.
I have to agree with him when it comes
to RJ's Party. I posted a reply to his blog
right way after I got the email.
Look I am not a prud but every where
you look its the same thing no matter what
is being marketed from cookies to an car
they use the same tatic.There is no respect
for anything anymore and it has been that
way for the past few years.
Jumping off my soapbox now.

Bill

Re: Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

Hello Mark and welcome to the Seeds of Wisdom Publishing Forum.

I guess I know one forum I wont' be joining. With both the responses you received (rejecting your post, defending the "Mansion" party) and the thread being removed, tells me a lot about that group.

There are plenty of other business forums out there to choose from, and not associate with the type that would label someone a prude for the reasons you objected to the "fundraiser".

Dennis Bevers

Re: Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

Thank you Dennis.

And to add to the list, the Warrior Forum, the largest Internet marketing forum around, deleted a 3-page thread much of which was critical of the Playboy Party.

When I and others asked what happened to the thread, Allen Says, owner of the forum proceeded to delete our accounts.

Meanwhile, the Jerk was allowed to post a defense of his purported donation to charity, which many had questioned because the charity itself denied any knowledge of the Rich Jerk's promised donation; the only links to their site came from a poker site; and the charity wasn't registered as a 503 (c) nonprofit corporation. The Jerk didn't directly address all of the questions but then he really didn't need to because they had all been deleted by Mr. Says and his platoon of moderators.

By the way, many women voiced their concern about the event as did an equal number of men. But they were all deleted too.

For all the talk about free speech by the Jerk's defenders it's supremely ironic that those who questioned or criticised his sexist, homophobic tactics were censored.

Mark

Re: Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

I agree with you all. I haven't seen his latest gross pics that fly under the guise of "business", but I deleted my subscription when he started getting WAY out of hand some months ago. Btw, that's when he first started advertising that par-tay, too. Don't worry, there are always going to be people who WILL attend & WILL take up for him, but take heart - - those are the same people who will belong to another, more undesirable club together, too ;) ...maybe even meet again sometime at the local clinic...:D

Well, can't be helped...we tried to tell 'em! ~lol~

Re: Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

I've started a new Squidoo Lens to expose the Rich Jerk's sexist, homophobic advertising and to spur others to take action to oppose this decay in ethical standards:

The Rich Jerk's Sexist, Homophobic Advertising
http://www.squidoo.com/rich-jerk-sex...ic-advertising

Also see Jennifer Knox's Lens:

Internet Marketing and Women: Concerns About "Rich Jerk" Marketing
http://www.squidoo.com/marketingandwomen/

I note in my Lens that Sandi was the first marketer to speak out on this issue as far as I can tell. Bravo!

All the Best,

Mark

Re: Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

Thanks, Mark, but the real kudos should go to the other men and women who had the courage to stand up and be counted in this, and other, threads.

I followed your link, and several others that I found as a result. I even read every one of the Paul Galloway comments as well as his original posts. Most of the posts were supportive of his position, a few disagreed with some points, and a couple came right out in support of the opposition position. Fascinating reading.

Just wanted to thank everyone for their input. Your voices of integrity and examples of shining character as examples for future generations are more plentiful than I would have ever suspected. Thanks for helping to ensure a better future for all.

Sandi Bowman

Homophobic?
 

Mark,

Thanks for taking action.

Are we feeling the Outrage yet? HA! :o

Quick Question. You have mention the RJ is Homophobic. I read his sales letter and didn't see any thing to indicate that. Maybe I missed it? WHERE is the evidence to back up the Label you just threw at him?

Michael Ross

Re: Homophobic?
 

You have seen this, correct? If not, skip to the end. If you still have doubts, I'd love to hear them.

Re: Homophobic?
 

And there's the blog posting .

No evidence yet...
 

Mark,

Thanks for linking to the video.

Unfortunately, they want me to Sign Up to view it. And I'm not going to sign up to something to help you prove your point. How about you give us a Transcript of the bit that you Think makes him Homophobic.

Which leaves his PS, "No gays allowed." How does that make him Homophobic?

Seriously? Gay means bright, bubbly, cheery happy.

It's also been used as a term of ridicule and to Knock something or express your dislike at something. E.g. You see a car that you don't like the look of and you think the airbrushing on the side is silly and you remark, "That car is so Gay."

Some Same Sex Fetishists do refer to themselves as Gay.

Now, his PS might mean, he doesn't want any Happy people there. And going by his Angry Boy writing style I could clearly see that. He might also not want any Stupid Heads, Idiots, Morons and other's like that which he calls Gay. And third, he might not want Homosexuals - as if he'd know how to spot one.

To add more. If he does mean Same Sex Fetishists he just might not want them at this event because... he knows they won't have a good time (unless they are Female Same Sex Fetishists). And so he makes that "No gays allowed" remark. However, that does not mean the man has an overall prejudice against Same sex Fetishists.

Based on the above, it is a stretch to call the man Homophobic.

I'm not giving the man a pass - I've already expressed what I think of the matter elsewhere in this thread. But I'm hardly going to accuse the man of being Homophobic due to three written words. Otherwise it's similar to the games played by the likes of Jesse Jackson who wants to make Everything about race - so the Other side then wastes time defending a Label that shouldn't have been thrown in the first place, and the original topic is lost.

If, on the other boards in which there was deletion, you were more outraged and zealotry in calling names, then I can understand your message being deleted by the board owner.

Because it's Their Board and, like a newspaper, they have an onus on what stays up and is available to be read. If you call someone a name, or call them a Prejudicial Label, you had better be able to back it up otherwise the message will be deleted. It's that simple. (Say what you want on your own website or blog, but don't expect others to put themselves on the Libel/Slander Line for you.)

And so far, I see no evidence to throw a label around like that. Maybe the video shows something different. Like if he'd said he Hates Homosexuals or something. But writing "No Gays Allowed" does not make him any more homophobic than a store having "No smoking allowed" makes them Smokerphobic or a sign that says "No Skateboarding" makes the place Skateboarderphobic. Such places can have signs due to Insurance Liabilities.

Michael Ross

It isn't over yet, folks...here's the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey would say...
 

I just received an email from John Reese wherein he explains more about how he got involved, what he knew and, more importantly, what he didn't know at the time he sent the email and so on.

Basically he took full responsibility for the fact that he sent the email and promoted the 'marketing event'. Apologized profusely to not only the folks on his list but, especially to the women marketers who were 'excluded' and so on.

The newsletter/apology was eye-opening in many ways. Thought you'd like to know that he will be going to the event simply because he gave his word to be there and several folks are anticipating meeting him there etc.

I've known John for some time now and, frankly, I believe him ultimately. It takes a big man (or woman for that matter) to publicly admit when they've screwed up big time and, for that, I admire him even if his previous exemplary behavior didn't point that fact out to us unless we were paying close attention.

Apology accepted, big man. As One far greater than I once said: "Let ye who are without sin, cast the first stone".

My own saying: "When I am perfect, the rest of the world better shape up!"

Sandi Bowman

The "Business Lesson" In All Of This...
 

I think there's a business lesson in John Reese's apology...

Sometimes, you may "tee off" your customers, and it may be an accident. What, then, should you do?

I think the best approach in most cases is to apologize. To "eat humble pie" - like John Reese did in the email Sandi is referring to.

That way, he probably minimizes any negative effect which he probably didn't foresee. And he gets to keep many of his customers who were "teed off".

I think it's a good general lesson in customer relations.

Best wishes, Dien

Re: The "Business Lesson" In All Of This...
 

Kelly Felix/RJ...

Will be getting a Taste of his own medicine Too...

Controversial Marketing can Blow up in your Face...

Whether he Survives and/or Learns anything remains to be seen...

Interesting Squidoo... :)

Concerned about the direction of marketing to women? Why has marketing become so harsh, and who supports it?
http://www.squidoo.com/marketingandwomen

Phil

Once again, a player played and won the game.
 

Sandi,


I have read this thread with much interest and noted all the outrage from the female posters. But I got to say. Word or no word John should not go.

Admitting quilt, but then going makes John no better than the individuals putting on the party. His apology is a veil and an attempt to keep his subscribers, but still participate.

He should be like other businesses that learn of something that might soil their image and back out. Some have cancelled multi-million dollar contracts, I.E. Pepsi & Michael Jackson.

Compromise is what brings good businesses down as well as it's owner(s). I'd have more respect for any person if they had a conviction about something and stuck to it.

If it's wrong then it's wrong. But now you are giving him a pass. What does that say to the other women who have stood beside your outrage? When did it stop being wrong and bringing down what women have struggled to get away from?

It's like saying, "I'm sorry I took your wallet and used your credit card. I don't know what I was thinking, please forgive me, but since I have your credit card I'm going to continue using it."

The reason John is going has nothing to do with keeping his word. It's about taking his business to the next level. Us men have a way of telling you what you want to hear and saying it in a way that makes you now think it's ok.

The reason I hate this whole matter is remembering what my mother went through during the 60's in Los Angeles, being a single mother and trying to compete in a man's world.

So all the outrage was for nought. :(

Woody Quiñones
The Promotional Guy

Re: Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

Woody, I have to agree with you to a point. I didn't, and don't, think I did anything wrong in forgiving someone who offers up a sincere apology, an explanation for his actions and planned actions that makes sense to any marketer who didn't want to disappoint their customers (who purchased their tickets through him, incidentally, so they could meet him) after giving his word to meet them at a certain destination.

The only thing that influences this as being different from any other customer service effort is the location of the meeting. The rest of the scenario really has little to do with that basic customer service function.

Personally, I would've preferred to see John totally refuse to stay involved in the scenario by offering to meet his customers elsewhere instead, but I am not in a position to enforce my views on him, nor should I be. He is a human being, an adult, and capable of making his own choices just as I make mine. I'm sure any thinking adult can take any decision to continue participation in something so outrageously sexist into account in their own future decisions with or without apologies and explanations. We simply have more information with which to make our own personal decisions now.

I'm sorry your mother had glass ceiling problems and male-dominated barriers like my mom did. I have so much glass embedded in my head from frequently hitting that ceiling myself that my brains are probably visible through it.

The bottom line is that the outrage remains with me and others who support similar views. I have been accused of being too harsh and too out-spoken oftentimes so I tried to moderate my response...and I find myself in the uncomfortable position of STILL having to defend myself to a man. Let's face it, a woman in a man's world just can't win sometimes. Sigh.

Unless one or the other side reaches out in an attempt to change things, nothing will change. I reached out, got a response (albeit not totally the one I would've preferred) and that was a step forward in a very real sense. I don't see that as defeat after fighting some 50+ years for the chance to even state my opinions without severe repercussions. Call it one small step for womankind in that our objections were acknowledged and resulted in some changes.

Disagree with your 'compromise is what brings many businesses down etc...' comment. Compromise, one result of negotiation, is the basis upon which successful businesses work. Without negotiation, parties would never meet in the middle and accomplish anything together. Compromise is simply the means used to get them to a common meeting ground.

As in any negotiation, the compromise must be in line with one's ultimate objectives. One compromise does not necessarily destroy the entire process unless it is so basic as to make any further negotiations invalid for one party or the other. Any sincere negotiator comes to the table with 'bargaining chips' that are expendable in the interests of the greater good to be accomplished at that time.

"A step at a time and the world is mine" is one of my favorite excerpts from a piece I wrote years ago. The fact that many men, as well as women, joined the protest over the blatant sexism, is a testament to the fact that things are changing...however slowly.

Sandi Bowman

Did It Really Backfire? I Don't Think It Did...
 

I don't think Felix is going to suffer one bit from the blow back that occurred. He received far more attention and reach from the manufactured controversy than he lost by offending people. And this is far from over...

Like the Energizer Bunny it keeps going and going. John Reese's email just threw more gas onto the fire, despite the fact it was an apology. One idiot I know, thinks that the apology was manufactured to bring more attention to the event! Case in point: we are once again pulling this thread up from the depths of SowPub in order to discuss the latest piece of RJ news.

And what will happen after the event?

Pictures will surface.

Details will emerge.

Once again we will drag this thread up.

Are there any more lessons to be learned? I don't think so.

1. Don't disrespect people.
2. Apologize QUICKLY and sincerely.


Aloha,

Jason Cain

Re: Comments on RJ's playboy club get together?
 

Jason, thanks for your comments.

I think if you look back through the history of controversial themes, you'll find that, tho' they may take time to manifest, they almost invariably DO backfire on the perpetrators.

The usual pattern I've observed is: hush-hush and ignore the problem and it just might go away (not usually...it usually intensifies when not met with resistance...like slavery, for example, and other civil rights fights later).

Women ignored the ill-treatment and inequities for years until some started to challenge the status quo. The uproar led to changes...and still is leading to modifications over all.

It's an unfortunate by-product that the perps get media coverage in the process...but they also have the light focused on their misdeeds as well...and this, plus the stimulated reactions of the incensed and victims, results in their defeat ultimately.

Rj is a flash in the pan...when the sunlight disappears so will the flash...unless we remove the pan first! :D This is one reason why I would've preferred to see those who have a genuine change of heart follow through with action as well as words.

Sandi Bowman

That apology is a Crock
 

Sandi,

Thanks for mentioning The Apology.

That Apology is a bill of goods, plain and simple.

Here's why...

1: He didn't like the way the company that was putting it on did marketing - but he still decided to market it.

2: He figured by promoting it he'd be Endorsing Pornography in the eyes of the reader - and he did it anyway.

3: As soon as he'd sent out the promotion his office started getting ANGRY phone calls and emails - but he waited two weeks to send an Apology/Retraction, by which time the event was sold out.

4: He claims, as far as he knew the sales letter was NOT online when he sent out his promotion. So this Experienced Marketer expects us to believe that he knowingly sent a message promoting an event thinking that when you clicked the link you'd get a Come Back Soon page? That's the Lamest excuse I've ever heard and just follows the old "I didn't know" chestnut.

5: He says he thought if he explained he didn't condone the offensive marketing people would understand. If he'd not seen the marketing as he Claims, why would he feel a need to tell people he didn't condone the offensive marketing?

6: The worst part he claims, is how the marketing was damaging to the women in the industry. But look at this thread as an example - see all the men put off by it? This section of his email is just to garner favor with the plethora of women he knows he P'ed Off.

7: He uses the "consider his past good actions before condemning him" ploy used by lawyers in a defense trial - never done anything like this before, blah blah blah. The longer his apology goes on the more Desperate he comes across as wanting to be believed. But [I'll add my Buts further on]

8: He reckons no-one made any Direct Commission from the promotion - they just got a free ticket to the event. I note the Careful choice of words of Direct Commission because it excludes Indirect Commission. If he was So strong about this I'd expect something more along the lines of - I made no commission from this event whatsoever in any way, shape or form.

9: Then he lists a bunch charities he has helped support in the past. Now he's trying to Buy a Good Guy Badge as if to say, see I'm a Good Guy because I support charities and did something good once. This tactic is an Immediate Turn Off to me for the obviousness of it.

10: Then tries to legitimize the charity of the event and prove it's all kosher because the charity is real. Every couple of weeks there's a new Charity with a Kiosk in my local shopping center. I've never heard of any of these charities that set up - even though they are a Registered Charity. I can register a business name for $100, that doesn't make me genuine, or what I say I do for business. Just more trying to get us to Buy It.

11: After all his filibustering he then admits to still going to the event because: he wants to see the mansion and he claims others are going because he said he would. And still tries to justify it by saying what goes on at the mansion is all blown out of proportion.

12: He then tries to downplay the Mansion and his going to it - even though he disagrees with the event and everything the mansion Stands for - by comparing this to Sony's sponsoring of American Idol (which he supports) while also promoting offensive rappers (which he does not support).

At this point, the more he tries to justify going the more integrity he loses.

13: The second last hoorah... he is Still Attending because he Gave His Word. His Actions define him. He talked a good talk but when all is said and done, he is changing - DOing - nothing different. No different than the alcoholic who SAYS they are giving up and are sorry for the Crap they put everyone through, who then does nothing to get off the booze and keeps on doing the same things. Or the smoker who apologizes for smoking next to you and continues to smoke next to you.

14: The final word - remove yourself from my list if you don't believe. Code for - because I obviously won't sell to you any more because you won't buy my BS.

Different people might have differing opinions in what is needed in an apology - a genuine apology. But all genuine ones have something in common...

1: They are QUICK in coming. As soon as the person discovers they've done something they are Truly sorry about, they apologize. They do not wait Two Weeks for any reason.

2: They follow their words with ACTION. This shows their sincerity and their integrity. They do not tell you they are sorry and then tell you they will Still do the thing they are apologizing for. Their Actions show their sincerity and integrity, or lack of the same.

What John SHOULD have done if he were Truly Sorry was say so Right Away - and - offer to hold his own Private Meeting with those who want to meet with him and to do so for Free. He says people were going just to meet with him, so he can hold his own private meeting for a few hours in the function room of a nearby motel - even a darn Scout Hall. He would then NOT attend the event.

THAT would show he Honors his Meeting Obligations while also shows his True Denouncing of the event.

Or, do what the other Large companies do when they find out something unsavory - cancel right on the spot, tell why briefly and be done with it.

By taking two weeks to pipe up and by still attending, his Actions show he is not truly sorry at all and by apologizing he is just trying to sell you a bill of goods and have his cake and eat it to.

I'm sure he does wish he'd never done it - for the abuse and loss of sales he suffered as well as the abuse his Name suffered in the incestuous Internet Marketing sheep pen. So that is true when he says that, but that's as far as it goes.

I don't expect the man to crawl over broken glass. But if you are sorry, for real, then your actions follow your words.

His apology reminds me of Ayn Rand's book The Fountainhead. Where the boss of the newspaper would hire Socialists to write on the wonders of Capitalism. He did it to prove that people had no integrity and would Sell Out if the price was right.

By going to an event he denounces and continuing to have anything to do with a company who he claims to abhor, he is showing a Complete and Utter lack of integrity and that his words are Hollow. And his Apology has made it all the more worse for him.

John Reese, your hollow apology is not accepted. You either have the strength of your convictions or you don't. And you do not. And oh... I did Unsubscribe.

Michael Ross

Forgiveness IS the way to...
 

Hi, Michael,

I'm not going to refute your stance since I do respect and, to a certain extent, agree with you on most of your post.

Now, to understand why I forgave him. It was not to free him and give him a PASS...it was to free ME. You see, forgiveness is the way to free yourself of the power others hold over you. In forgiving others, you take back the power they took from you and reclaim it for yourself. I just simply chose not to remain in anger, disappointment, and disgust...and I did it for me. That is a healthy thing, just as my initial reaction was a healthy expression at the time. To hold on to the negatives is not progressive or life-affirming. It just builds tension and more negatives into one's life.

One can be outraged and fight for what one believes in without holding on to anger and other negative emotions. I know because I've done it...yet again... when I started this thread. It gives one an entirely different perspective on things even tho' it's often misunderstood by some others. Their problem, not mine.

Sandi Bowman

Next...
 

Sandi,

Thanks for explaining.

Whatever works For You is right.

For you it is to Forgive. For others it is simply to Let Go of the Hate/Anger/Outrage. For others, it is Not to go there in the first place and approach it from the get go with a "So What" or "Who Cares" attitude - my preferred MO.

I'll give a comment when asked, as this was the case with your initial posting. Otherwise, I'm like, "Look at this idiot. Next" and I've moved on.

It's why I posted to Mark about "Feeling The Outrage". It's my own private little joke that started years ago when some people I know were getting all Outraged at a journalist with a column. They'd go out of their way to read this guy's stuff and then get outraged and upset about it - weekly.

My take would have been to simply not bother reading the guy's stuff after the first time. But it seemed these people liked getting outraged.

If you don't like what is posted on the DU, don't go there. If you don't like what's posted in FR, don't go there. Simple stuff.

If you don't like the way a marketer emails to you, delete and unsubscribe and move on. No need to make a federal case of it. That's how I think about it and why I wonder why you sometimes post about your outrage - but that's what works For You and that's fine too.

Michael Ross