Sales versus Marketing
 

As someone "new" to running your own business I have a question. Could someone help me define the difference between Sales versus Marketing? If your marketing is done properly won't the sales take care of themselves?

Yeah, Maybe, Kinda...
 

Marketing happens before, duriing and after the sale is made.

Without the marketing their will be no sale.

Sales is what happens when your marketing is done correctly. Sales generates dollars. Marketing generates sales.

Taylor

> As someone "new" to running your
> own business I have a question. Could
> someone help me define the difference
> between Sales versus Marketing? If your
> marketing is done properly won't the sales
> take care of themselves?




The SECRET Of Money Making Copywriting

Simply put...
 

Marketing - Identifying a group who has a need which can be solved with the application of one of your products or services.

Target Marketing - Identifying a specific group of people with a specific need which can be solved with a specific product or service in which you can provide.

Sales - The act of providing a specific solution to a market need where the need is satisfactorily solved, and the provider of the product or service is compensated for the application of the solution.

You can have Sales with no Marketing.

You can have Marketing with no Sales.

But mix the right amounts together for a particular application and you can have explosive results.

Success and Regards... Mike


Where Sales and Marketing meet...

Sales With NO Marketing?
 

Mike,
in what instance is this possible?

Taylor Trump

> Marketing - Identifying a group who has a
> need which can be solved with the
> application of one of your products or
> services.

> Target Marketing - Identifying a specific
> group of people with a specific need which
> can be solved with a specific product or
> service in which you can provide.

> Sales - The act of providing a specific
> solution to a market need where the need is
> satisfactorily solved, and the provider of
> the product or service is compensated for
> the application of the solution.

> You can have Sales with no Marketing.

> You can have Marketing with no Sales.

> But mix the right amounts together for a
> particular application and you can have
> explosive results. Success and Regards...
> Mike

Submitted for your consideration...(In a Rod Serling voice)
 

I receive a phone call while driving across the Wyoming Continental Divide on a Sunday enjoying the expansive views with my girlfriend on the last day of our "getaway" weekend.

"Hello this is Mike..."

"Mike??? You don't know me but JL said he gets his insurance from you and I want to switch! Can you do that???"

::Insert Seinfelds "Yada Yada" episode:::

"Sure can... Consider it bound!"

Tuesday morning a 25% down payment on a $23,500.00 new commercial account is received.

No identifying the prospect...

No targeting the prospect...

No pre-contact with the prospect...

Prospect has never received one piece of Direct Mail, nor has he ever heard of me prior to his associate mentioning me in passing.

That's just one example.

Of course you could invoke the 'Chicken and the Egg' argument. (Which came first... The Sale, or the Marketing...) But MY bottomline conclusively proves to me, there are sales without actual "Marketing" by the solution provider.

The one thing I see with people entering into the selling profession - online or offline - is a propensity to believe paradigms as facts as they relate to sales and marketing.

Once broken free from the bonds of what "others" tell them to be true... They develop their own styles, their own pricing structures, their own attitudes, and their own set of beliefs.

If you don't believe something to be true, then it will never be a truism for you.

If you don't believe you could ever close a $122,834.45 sale in under 30 minutes... Then you will most likely NEVER accomplish it.

No one ever believed a human could run a sub four minute mile either. But once it was accomplished... Others found they could do it as well.

Sales and Marketing ARE two separate entities.

It's the "humanizing" factors - which others have thrust upon them - which have brought the two together.

If a prospects calls ME without ME initiating the process (ie: marketing). Isn't the "prospect" marketing his NEED's to me??? I may not want his business for one reason or another. Possibly his business is out of my arena. I may not even have a providable solution, wouldn't you agree???

So there is in effect - NO Marketing on my part.

Marketing as defined by my set of standards is "Identifying a group who has a need which can be solved with the application of one of your products or services."

"I" did not *identify* the prospect... He identified me. "He" is *marketing* his needs to me. I'm not *marketing* my solutions to his needs.

The answers are all within my definitions of "Sales" and "Marketing".

Accept it... Reject it... But I won't debate it... It works for me! :-)

Success and Regards... Mike


$122,834.45 in sales in under 30 minutes??? Sure can!!!

Re: Sales With NO Marketing?
 

> Mike,
> in what instance is this possible?

You are on your way home, tired as the dickens. As you drive by the same little noname 7/11-type store every day, it hits you that you need milk. You walk in, pick up milk, pay, go home.

The store was just *there* and convenient. They made a sale without marketing to you.

Re: Submitted for your consideration...(In a Rod Serling voice)
 

Mike,
I'm sorry you feel like I was wanting to debate with you. I was not and am not. I am just trying to learn. Nothing more.

If it works for you then it can work for others too.

Respectfully,
Taylor

> I receive a phone call while driving across
> the Wyoming Continental Divide on a Sunday
> enjoying the expansive views with my
> girlfriend on the last day of our
> "getaway" weekend.

> "Hello this is Mike..."
> "Mike??? You don't know me but JL said
> he gets his insurance from you and I want to
> switch! Can you do that???" ::Insert
> Seinfelds "Yada Yada" episode:::

> "Sure can... Consider it bound!"
> Tuesday morning a 25% down payment on a
> $23,500.00 new commercial account is
> received.

> No identifying the prospect...

> No targeting the prospect...

> No pre-contact with the prospect...

> Prospect has never received one piece of
> Direct Mail, nor has he ever heard of me
> prior to his associate mentioning me in
> passing.

> That's just one example.

> Of course you could invoke the 'Chicken and
> the Egg' argument. (Which came first... The
> Sale, or the Marketing...) But MY
> bottomline conclusively proves to me, there
> are sales without actual
> "Marketing" by the solution
> provider.

> The one thing I see with people entering
> into the selling profession - online or
> offline - is a propensity to believe
> paradigms as facts as they relate to sales
> and marketing.

> Once broken free from the bonds of what
> "others" tell them to be true...
> They develop their own styles, their own
> pricing structures, their own attitudes, and
> their own set of beliefs.

> If you don't believe something to be true,
> then it will never be a truism for you.

> If you don't believe you could ever close a
> $122,834.45 sale in under 30 minutes... Then
> you will most likely NEVER accomplish it.

> No one ever believed a human could run a sub
> four minute mile either. But once it was
> accomplished... Others found they could do
> it as well.

> Sales and Marketing ARE two separate
> entities.

> It's the "humanizing" factors -
> which others have thrust upon them - which
> have brought the two together.

> If a prospects calls ME without ME
> initiating the process (ie: marketing).
> Isn't the "prospect" marketing his
> NEED's to me??? I may not want his business
> for one reason or another. Possibly his
> business is out of my arena. I may not even
> have a providable solution, wouldn't you
> agree???

> So there is in effect - NO Marketing on my
> part.

> Marketing as defined by my set of standards
> is "Identifying a group who has a need
> which can be solved with the application of
> one of your products or services."
> "I" did not *identify* the
> prospect... He identified me. "He"
> is *marketing* his needs to me. I'm not
> *marketing* my solutions to his needs .

> The answers are all within my definitions of
> "Sales" and "Marketing".
> Accept it... Reject it... But I won't
> debate it... It works for me! :-)

> Success and Regards... Mike

Not at all Taylor... :-)
 

I only dropped that in there as a generalised statement to intercept the inevitable "Which came first..." arguments I normally receive.

It wasn't pointed directly at you! :-)

You would certainly agree there are many who will and can argue pointlessly on the forums. Many without the personal experience needed to discuss, or argue the topic skillfully.

I now stay away from the forum scene for the most part because of this. And in doing so... No one ever asks to see my checkbook balance to prove a point! LOL

Success to you my friend...

Re: Sales With NO Marketing?
 

The kid down the street knocks on your door and says can I cut the grass. Yep cut it.

Sales with no marketing...

Happens everyday in every business. Marketing is the umbrella for sales. Just like marketing is the umbrella for advertising. You may make some money without marketing or advertising but you will most likely get wet.

later..
Ron

> Mike,
> in what instance is this possible?

> Taylor Trump

Re: Sales versus Marketing
 

I read this definition before, however I don't recall whether it was Dan Kennedy, Kiyosaki or Gerber.

Sales occur when PEOPLE sell!

Marketing occurs when the SYSTEM sells!

Does anybody recall who said this?

Duane

> As someone "new" to running your
> own business I have a question. Could
> someone help me define the difference
> between Sales versus Marketing? If your
> marketing is done properly won't the sales
> take care of themselves?

Re: Submitted for your consideration...(In a Rod Serling voice)
 

Without getting into a debate of semantics, look at what Mike typed below, where he stated that no marketing took place:
-------------------------
> "Hello this is Mike..."
> "Mike??? You don't know me but JL said
> he gets his insurance from you and I want to
> switch! Can you do that???"
-------------------------
In this example, Mike's marketing was done when he sold and serviced JL. He marketed himself adequately enough to JL, that JL in turn did the selling to the new client. Mike simply took the order, which is far different than selling.
As Mike states, everyone has their own take on things, and it pretty much boils down to calling things what you choose.
The way my belief system is set up, however is that a sale can not take place unless some form of marketing prompted that. Marketing can be doing right by your client and generating word of mouth orders as a result. Marketing can be a big 7-Eleven sign positioned at roadside. Marketing can be wearing your best suit to help you sell yourself to a prospective employer. I suppose it boils down to one's own definitions of these terms.
Just my 2 cents.

There are plenty of examples of Sales With NO Marketing
 

> in what instance is this possible?

When I bought my water filter the instructions mentioned how much water could be filtered before a fresh cartridge was needed.

So every month I now buy a new water filter cartridge to replace the old one.

Whenever my car is low on gas I pull in and fill 'er up.

Whether the supermarket runs ads or not, I go in and buy food.

When my shoes wear out I buy another pair.

If I want to stay connected to the internet I pay my IPS monthly access bill.

Today my radiator sprang a small leak. I went to the autoparts store and asked if there was a stop-leak product for radiators. There was. I bought it.

The food I buy for my animals is the food they like - yes I've tried them all.

Whenever I need my hair cut I go get it cut.

Plenty of sales without marketing.

Michael Ross.

Re: Sales versus Marketing
 

I guess I just do not see it like the rest of you. I don't see the "no marketing". However, I do not want to contest anyone's point of view.

I asked a incredibly well-known and ultra-successful direct marketer to view this thread and provide me some feedback.

He agreed with me about somewhere along the lines some marketing took place...indirect as it may seem.

For instance, why did you choose that "one gas station" as opposed to another gas station.

You needed gas of course, but...why did you decide that the gas station you saw was suitable to fill you need at that particular time?

In any event, I have learned something of value and that is more importamnt to me tha being dead-right. I gues it is like Jim Straw says...knowone is right, knowone is wrong.

Respectfully,

Taylor Trump

> I read this definition before, however I
> don't recall whether it was Dan Kennedy,
> Kiyosaki or Gerber.

> Sales occur when PEOPLE sell!

> Marketing occurs when the SYSTEM sells!

> Does anybody recall who said this?

> Duane

Re: Submitted for your consideration...(In a Rod Serling voice)
 

I agree wholeheartedly with you. I think marketing took place somewhere at soemtime. It may have been indirect but with no marketing at all I thiink you stand the same chance of just building a website and doing absolutley nothing else.

You won't sell many widgets that way.

Taylor

> Without getting into a debate of semantics,
> look at what Mike typed below, where he
> stated that no marketing took place:
> -------------------------
> -------------------------
> In this example, Mike's marketing was done
> when he sold and serviced JL. He marketed
> himself adequately enough to JL, that JL in
> turn did the selling to the new client. Mike
> simply took the order, which is far
> different than selling.
> As Mike states, everyone has their own take
> on things, and it pretty much boils down to
> calling things what you choose.
> The way my belief system is set up, however
> is that a sale can not take place unless
> some form of marketing prompted that.
> Marketing can be doing right by your client
> and generating word of mouth orders as a
> result. Marketing can be a big 7-Eleven sign
> positioned at roadside. Marketing can be
> wearing your best suit to help you sell
> yourself to a prospective employer. I
> suppose it boils down to one's own
> definitions of these terms.
> Just my 2 cents.

What an interesting thread!
 

All of this proves is what an imprecise tool language can be.

The fact that sales and marketing are so easily confused and regarded as interchangeable explains why so many companies lump both disciplines together under a 'Sales and Marketing Director'.

Yet they are different. (And this is, I guess, just another opinion!)

Let's look at some of the cut and dried examples given.

The kid who asks if he can cut the grass is marketing himself. The moment that you say yes, he has made a sale.

The 7/11 that you drive past was passively marketing itself with a neon sign that told you it was open. Without that knowledge, you would not have sold yourself on going in the door.

The water filter that you bought way back was marketed with advertising in press and probably TV. All kinds of marketing messages filtered (ouch!) into your brain before you chose that brand and model. This particular product happens to come with a renewable income stream for the manufacturers - the cartridges. Sure, the cartridges on their own need little direct marketing, but that is because the means of using them has had tons.

The same arguement can be applied to printer cartridges or fax paper or fountain pen ink. All supposedly non-marketed items whose continued sales rely on the highly active marketing of a master product.

Ultimately, my definition of sales versus marketing is that marketing is everything that is done to create a need, and sales is the act of fulfilling it.

I am sure there are a million alternatives, though.

Martin.


BizE-zine: Success strategies that really work.

Re: Sales versus Marketing
 

Someone explained it very simply to me years ago

Marketing is finding 'em.

Sales is what you do with 'em when you've found 'em

Made sense to me!

Philip

Why I chose one gas station over another...
 

> He agreed with me about somewhere along the
> lines some marketing took place...indirect
> as it may seem.

> For instance, why did you choose that
> "one gas station" as opposed to
> another gas station.

> You needed gas of course, but...why did you
> decide that the gas station you saw was
> suitable to fill you need at that particular
> time?

I choose the gas station with the cheapest gas. Sometimes, in my area, gas can be 10 cents a litre different in price. The 'brand' of gas has nothing to do with it.

Then, of course, there comes times when I'm REAL low. Then it's whichever is closest. And late at night it's whichever I see open.

Michael Ross.

"Sales" is a subset of "Marketing"
 

> When I bought my water filter the
> instructions mentioned how much water could
> be filtered before a fresh cartridge was
> needed.

> So every month I now buy a new water filter
> cartridge to replace the old one.

> Whenever my car is low on gas I pull in and
> fill 'er up.

> Whether the supermarket runs ads or not, I
> go in and buy food.

> When my shoes wear out I buy another pair.

> If I want to stay connected to the internet
> I pay my IPS monthly access bill.

> Today my radiator sprang a small leak. I
> went to the autoparts store and asked if
> there was a stop-leak product for radiators.
> There was. I bought it.

> The food I buy for my animals is the food
> they like - yes I've tried them all.

> Whenever I need my hair cut I go get it cut.

> Plenty of sales without marketing.

> Michael Ross.

Michael,

It was marketing that brought the automobile to market and made it a 'must-have' item. And now you need to purchase the products that support the original purchase.

It was marketing that caused you to purchase a water filtration system that needs its filters changed.

It was the location choice (derived from marketing) that caused your grocery store chain to choose the location they did...which you frequent with or without ads.

Your barber used marketing to select a location and the ability to cut your hair the way you like it is a form of sale's training, which again is a subset of marketing. You get your hair cut due to marketing pressures...you marketing yourself to others and the overall "maket" dictating how long your hair should be.

Granted you may not "see" what is normally considered a marketing action such as advertising, direct mail and such to cause you to purchase a product but be assured that marketing has already left its foot-print in the process via location selection, display or any of these other things that are subsets of marketing.

Take care,

Mike Winicki

Water filters and generational marketing
 

> The water filter that you bought way back
> was marketed with advertising in press and
> probably TV. All kinds of marketing messages
> filtered (ouch!) into your brain before you
> chose that brand and model. This particular
> product happens to come with a renewable
> income stream for the manufacturers - the
> cartridges. Sure, the cartridges on their
> own need little direct marketing, but that
> is because the means of using them has had
> tons.

The reason I bought the water filter was because I have no bench space for a water dispenser and I got sick and tired of buying bottle after bottle.

So the only way I know of to drink water without buying bottle after bottle was to filter my tap water - I am allergic to the substances that are put in our tap water. The supermarket has one brand only - a brand I had NEVER heard of before. So I bought it.

> Ultimately, my definition of sales versus
> marketing is that marketing is everything
> that is done to create a need, and sales is
> the act of fulfilling it.

> I am sure there are a million alternatives,
> though.

Yep. I depends on how semantic you want to get. :o)

It certainly is an interesting thread.

For instance, how much did marketing to our parents come into play? By going shopping with mum I learn which stores carry which foods. SO even if that store never markets to me, I still know what they stock because I went shopping with mum as a youngster.

Michael Ross

Re: "Sales" is a subset of "Marketing"
 

For sure, everything we have available to us is a result of marketing.

The thing is, how semantic do we go... how far back do we go to answer the question?

MY understanding of Taylor's question, and the angle from which I gave my answer, was how did it relate to ME directly and immediately. Was I marketed to or not.

The fact we know a certain store carries certain products is a result of marketing. Maybe not to us, but at least to our parents who passed that knowledge on.

However I learned that autopart stores carry things for cars, doesn't matter. I just knew they did and when I needed something for the car, that's where I went.

Did I know there were things which could be added to the radiator to stop leaks? No. Did I know the autoparts store carried such items? No, but I figured they were my best bet if such a product existed.

Personally I have never been marketed to by any stop-radiator-leaks company. And yet I just bought such a product.

As far as the company who sells those treatments goes, they have received a sale from someone they never marketed to.

Standing back, though, we do see that I was marketed to, or my parents where marketed to, in some way so I knew where the best place to look for a certain type of product was.

Michael Ross.

"As the Thread turns" Robert Kiyosaki's take on the Difference between Sales and Marketing
 

The Difference between Sales and Marketing

“An S quadrant business owner is often good at sales, but to be a successful B quadrant business owner, you must be good at marketing as well as sales”

“Sales is what you do in person, one on one. Marketing is sales done via a system” Most S quadrant businesspeople are very good at one-on-one sales. For them to make the transition to the B quadrant, they need to learn how to sell through a system, which is called marketing.

[S quadrant= specialists, dentist, doctors, sales professionals etc usually one person
B quadrant = businesses with investors, specialists, employees and business owner]

[excerpted from the book "Rich dad's guid to investing" pg 275,276]

Excellent thread folks!

Duane Adolph

Marketing creates the awareness
 

> As someone "new" to running your
> own business I have a question. Could
> someone help me define the difference
> between Sales versus Marketing? If your
> marketing is done properly won't the sales
> take care of themselves?

Marketing creates the awareness. Everything after that is either sales or a combination of more marketing and resulting sales. Constant TV advertising of a certain product is a good example of continuing marketing. Infomercials create the need and desire to buy first, and that is the marketing part, then the "irresistible" sales pitch is the selling part.

You can't have sales without the marketing that creates the awareness for the need and desire for the product or service.

Lawrence

Ken...
 

It's amazing how "Linear Thinking" can bind one to a predisposed perspective.

There are a number of replies to my initial post where one can't grasp or understand the concept, so they seek the thoughts of someone else - who will corraborate their way of thinking. Not very independent thinking is it???

Others will have you believe there is no distinction between Sales and Marketing. Again... "Linear Thinking" at fault, and not being open to alternative definitions.

Remember the great seafaring voyagers who were searching the vast ocean expanses??? Others told them they would fall off the edge of the World because the World was flat. Good thing Magellan and Columbus weren't earthbound by "Linear Thinking".

DaVinci espoused the World circled the Sun when everyone else believed the World was the "Center of Everything" and things revolved around it. DaVinci was almost killed over his statements. Again... "Linear Thinking" by others...

Rent the video "One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest" with Jack Nicholson. As long as everybody takes their medication and believes what they are told... Everything is in order on the Psychiatric Ward, and the Universe, and the caregivers will leave you alone. Does that make it right??? No... But they eventually broke the character played by Jack Nicholson with surgery to conform with their "standards".

I have plans this weekend and a number of things to do next week. But I plan on writing an article to be posted on The Marketing Forum sometime soon detailing more of the Sales vs. Marketing concept.

Don't ever believe marketing has to occur in order to have a sale. But with the proper marketing your sales will explode!

The World is round. We circle the Sun. We fly in the skies. We dive into the deepest trenches of the oceans. We will leave our Galaxy one day. We will solve the Theory of Cold Fusion. All things people have said could never be done, or never will be done... What do you think???

Above all else Ken... Be an independent thinker. Don't rely on others to confirm what you may or may not understand right now. And don't be afraid to step out of the accepted norms. Don't fall into the entrapments of "Linear Thinking"

I will put my name on the line and say this... The top 5% of PROFESSIONAL salespeople are not "Linear Thinkers". I'm not talking about the part time web site guy trying to make $100.00 a month while holding down a 9-5 job they hate.

I'm talking about people who make their Career as a Professional Sales Person. And I am still striving to attain that status of being in the Top 5%.

Success and Regards... Mike


CrashCourseMarketing eZine... What Free Thinkers read...

Marketing without marketing --- works for me too...
 

> "Mike??? You don't know me but JL said
> he gets his insurance from you and I want to
> switch! Can you do that???" ::Insert
> Seinfelds "Yada Yada" episode:::


Hi! This is XXX. I want you to build my website. When can you start?



This happens frequently. Someone I've never been in contact with, never heard of, calls me and asks me to look after their web development. They don't care what my price is, what my services include, and they really know nothing about me other then someone they know and trust said to them, "call Steve."

Likewise -- there wasn't any marketing on my part but "word of mouth marketing" certainly played a large part in generating the sale.

Best Regards,
Steve MacLellan






Accessing FTP from DOS