Any copywriters out there?
 

Hi,

My name is Darren Andrews. I need some help finishing of an ebook.

If anyone can help then the details are at the link below.

It would be much appreciated as I need to get this done!

My site (or one of them) is Writers-and-Publishers.com

Darren.


Copywriting Report

Darren, do I understand you correctly?
 

Hi Darren -

I could be missing something here, but are going to be selling a report that shows people how to make money as a successful copy writer in a few short weeks?

And now you want some help with writing the copy for selling the report?

If I have mis-read your post, please forgive me.

Robert Campbell


Timing the Real Estate Market

I take it to mean...
 

He wants successful copywriters to send him info and how to get clients. It's the "client getting info" which will be compiled into a book.

He does NOT want info on how to write copy, or write better copy.

Which is kinda strange, because if you can write real good copy, the lack of clients problem should be easily solved by your copywriting ability.

From my understanding, the book is designed to be sold/given to newbie copywriters to help them get clients. In other words... it's designed to get copywritig clients for people who are no good at writing copy.

That's how I understand it.

Michael Ross

Re: I take it to mean...
 

Thanks for your responses,

Michael is the closest ;)

The report is aimed at newbies and I am looking for contributors who share stories/interviews which (in addition to exposing their own services of course) encourage writers to try out copywriting and to see its profitability.

The main concern of such newbies (after being convinced that copywriters are not gods!) is how they'd get clients...

Thus I've asked contributors to dwell upon that a little: Some have, for instance, shared experiences of doing work for free when they started out.

I hope this explains things a little better.

Full details at link below.

Darren Andrews.

> He wants successful copywriters to send him
> info and how to get clients. It's the
> "client getting info" which will
> be compiled into a book.

> He does NOT want info on how to write copy,
> or write better copy.

> Which is kinda strange, because if you can
> write real good copy, the lack of clients
> problem should be easily solved by your
> copywriting ability.

> From my understanding, the book is designed
> to be sold/given to newbie copywriters to
> help them get clients. In other words...
> it's designed to get copywritig clients for
> people who are no good at writing copy.

> That's how I understand it.

> Michael Ross




Contributor Details

According to Dan Kennedy ...
 

most business owners can write their own sales copy ... and do a pretty good job.

After all, a good copy writer is going to have you write down (on 3 x 5 cards) all the features and benefits of your product or service as the first step anyway.

Once you do this - and to to oversimplify or underestimate the skills of good copy writers - you yourself are well on your way to creating powerful bullet points that are so important in sales copy.

In fact, writing a good headline and good bullet points, and adding risk reversal, of course, is a great, great start for anyone selling anything.

Simple formula but not too bad for a beginner who can't afford to hire a professional.

Robert Campbell


Timing the Real Estate Market

Now I understand!
 

You want to write another book (ebook) on a subject you know nothing about so you can become an instant authority on the backs of those that DO know something about your subject...

Now, why on earth didn't I think of that idea years ago??? I could have become the "World-Reknowned Whatever Subject Was Hottest At The Moment Guru", been a couple dollars richer than I am right now AND have NO credibility at all.

Are you really sure you want to take these shortcuts?

Re: According to Dan Kennedy ...
 

It's a general principle that if you can do it yourself, then go for it...I think that the business owner is the ideal person to write their own sales letter but some may lack or feel they lack such a talent and so they should write it and then allow a copywriter to act as their copyeditor.

Darren.

> most business owners can write their own
> sales copy ... and do a pretty good job.

> After all, a good copy writer is going to
> have you write down (on 3 x 5 cards) all the
> features and benefits of your product or
> service as the first step anyway.

> Once you do this - and to to oversimplify or
> underestimate the skills of good copy
> writers - you yourself are well on your way
> to creating powerful bullet points that are
> so important in sales copy.

> In fact, writing a good headline and good
> bullet points, and adding risk reversal, of
> course, is a great, great start for anyone
> selling anything.

> Simple formula but not too bad for a
> beginner who can't afford to hire a
> professional.

> Robert Campbell

Re: Now I understand!
 

Steven,

Many people publish books which are made up of contributions from others, The Chicken Soup books being perhaps the most famous. As long as you don't claim to have actually written the book then it's quite honest!

Actually I am a copywriter (for a large gem traders), but it is not my main thrust and I do not desire to become an authority on it - only to provide a resource for my subscribers (mainly writers) to expand their skills and opportunities.
Copywriting is but one aspect of writing. That's how I see it.

The contributions are clearly marked as coming from the contributor - with full byline contact details. There's no hidden agenda ;)

I'd welcome any comments if anything is unclear.

Darren.

> You want to write another book (ebook) on a
> subject you know nothing about so you can
> become an instant authority on the backs of
> those that DO know something about your
> subject...

> Now, why on earth didn't I think of that
> idea years ago??? I could have become the
> "World-Reknowned Whatever Subject Was
> Hottest At The Moment Guru", been a
> couple dollars richer than I am right now
> AND have NO credibility at all.

> Are you really sure you want to take these
> shortcuts?

Re: Now I understand!
 

Actually, Darren, I was just in a pissy mood this morning. You are absolutely right in that magazines could NOT turn a profit for themselves if they didn't have a stable full of contributors.

However, with the exception to their Letters to the Editor columns, most authors are paid for their work.

What compensation are you offering your contributors?

OK, to sum up...
 

Having perused the page you directed us to and the posts from others so far, let's see if I understand.

The ebook you are writing is an instructional on writing salescopy, and the audience for the ebook is writers of other things (e.g., articles, non-fiction books, fiction books, etc.). The purpose is to open these writers' eyes to the possibility of stretching their writing skills by branching out into copywriting -- a potentially much more lucrative area than what most writers do.

The main body of the material about how to write good copy will be written by you.

What you are asking from us, or at least from those who have done or currently do copywriting as a profession, is tips (e.g., how to get paying clients when first starting out), success stories, and interviews. Since the intended audience does not yet have experience in this field, they may not be sure/confident about selling their own services. And, of course, success stories and the like will also serve to encourage your readers and show them not only that it can be done but how it can be done.

The "payment" to the contributors is the fact that, like with many article-writers, they gain exposure/credibility by being acknowledged as a contributor to the ebook and their contact info is included.

Is that pretty much the idea?

> Hi,

> My name is Darren Andrews. I need some help
> finishing of an ebook.

> If anyone can help then the details are at
> the link below.

> It would be much appreciated as I need to
> get this done!

> My site (or one of them) is
> Writers-and-Publishers.com

> Darren.

The major obstacle...
 

...is what Steven W. Johnson already mentioned in his last post: PAYING your contributors.

Experienced copywriters who already have clients simply don't work for free. (They may, on occasion, do pro bono work for some organization they support, but that's a different situation than this one.)

Most of them also view anyone who asks them to work for free in a less-than-complimentary way. After all, you expect to make money from the book in which their information appears, don't you?

As for "exposure/credibility," I'm afraid that contribution to your book will do little or nothing to provide either. I'll tell you why.

If these contributors are working copywriters with active client lists, they already have plenty of credibility in the form of work samples and references from actual, paying clients. And the only exposure your book could provide is to wannabe copywriters. Since they want to learn the business themselves, do you think they're going to be in the market to hire a copywriter?

I'm not trying to put your idea down in any way, Darren, but rather attempting to present how your call for contributors can be perceived. Asking an experienced writer not only to write but provide guidance for FREE is disrespectful at the very least. It demeans both the writer and the craft.

The producers of the "Chicken Soup" books that you mentioned in a previous post do pay for the stories they accept (last I heard, I think[/i] it was around $200). So you might just get some contributors -- and valuable content -- if you offer at least a nominal fee of $50-$100.

Good luck with moving forward with your project.

Eve § :)

Re: OK, to sum up...
 

Steve,

You've almost got it - ;)

However, there will be *no* "how to write salescopy" bit by me or by anyone else. The book is not about that.

Readers may choose to learn from those contributing copywriters who run courses on the same.

See other posts in this thread for more info.

Thanks for your interest.

Darren Andrews.

> Having perused the page you directed us to
> and the posts from others so far, let's see
> if I understand.

> The ebook you are writing is an
> instructional on writing salescopy, and the
> audience for the ebook is writers of other
> things (e.g., articles, non-fiction books,
> fiction books, etc.). The purpose is to open
> these writers' eyes to the possibility of
> stretching their writing skills by branching
> out into copywriting -- a potentially much
> more lucrative area than what most writers
> do.

> The main body of the material about how to
> write good copy will be written by you.

> What you are asking from us, or at least
> from those who have done or currently do
> copywriting as a profession, is tips (e.g.,
> how to get paying clients when first
> starting out), success stories, and
> interviews. Since the intended audience does
> not yet have experience in this field, they
> may not be sure/confident about selling
> their own services. And, of course, success
> stories and the like will also serve to
> encourage your readers and show them not
> only that it can be done but how it can be
> done.

> The "payment" to the contributors
> is the fact that, like with many
> article-writers, they gain
> exposure/credibility by being acknowledged
> as a contributor to the ebook and their
> contact info is included.

> Is that pretty much the idea?

Re: The major obstacle...
 

Eve,

Thank you for your comments. I must say that the responses on this forum have been much different to those forums I normally frequent. ;)

I am not aware of any contributor ebooks where the contributors were offered payment. The basis for marketer-to-marketer business is normally via JVs.

I have certain assets, they have certian assets which benefit us both and also the eventual customer/subscriber.

I see your point though and believe that is has some validity to it; however, I am quite happy with the contributors thus far, and who are not by any means unsuccessful in what they do.

Go to any successful online business and you will see that the savvy ones presell their services or product with a great deal of quality free information and guidance.

Thanks again for your comments.

Darren.

> ...is what Steven W. Johnson already
> mentioned in his last post: PAYING your
> contributors.

> Experienced copywriters who already have
> clients simply don't work for free. (They
> may, on occasion, do pro bono work for some
> organization they support, but that's a
> different situation than this one.)

> Most of them also view anyone who asks them
> to work for free in a
> less-than-complimentary way. After all, you
> expect to make money from the book in which
> their information appears, don't you?

> As for "exposure/credibility," I'm
> afraid that contribution to your book will
> do little or nothing to provide either. I'll
> tell you why.

> If these contributors are working
> copywriters with active client lists, they
> already have plenty of credibility in the
> form of work samples and references from
> actual, paying clients. And the only
> exposure your book could provide is to
> wannabe copywriters. Since they want to
> learn the business themselves, do you think
> they're going to be in the market to hire a
> copywriter?

> I'm not trying to put your idea down in any
> way, Darren, but rather attempting to
> present how your call for contributors can
> be perceived. Asking an experienced writer
> not only to write but provide guidance for
> FREE is disrespectful at the very least. It
> demeans both the writer and the craft.

> The producers of the "Chicken
> Soup" books that you mentioned in a
> previous post do pay for the stories they
> accept (last I heard, I think it was
> around $200). So you might just get some
> contributors -- and valuable content -- if
> you offer at least a nominal fee of
> $50-$100.

> Good luck with moving forward with your
> project.

> Eve § :)

Re: Now I understand!
 

Steve,

As someone who deals with writers and those who are not too familiar with Internet marketing, I am well aware of the mindset that you should be paid for everything you do.

However, this is not how it works online (or, I would suggest, in the real world). Very few websites/ezines indeed would pay someone for a contribution; and I am personally unaware of any marketers that have paid people to contribute to their ebooks.

JVs are based on mutual win-win-win situations where the service/product owner, list owner and customer are all better off than they would have been had the JV not been formed.

I have assets (a list and those who also have lists of targeted prospects), the contributor has a service or product that the ebook presells for them by virtue of their contribution.

So, for 5 mins - 30 mins work they are likely to gain much more in sales and/or subscribers than they lose in time.

I guess it comes down to whether you want a quick sale or an investment with an at least as good return or more. I'm reminded of that woman who sold the rights to a certain song for $300 and could have made millions with it (it was bought and used by the Cola Company).

Thanks for your comments,

Best Regards,

Darren.

> Actually, Darren, I was just in a pissy mood
> this morning. You are absolutely right in
> that magazines could NOT turn a profit for
> themselves if they didn't have a stable full
> of contributors.

> However, with the exception to their Letters
> to the Editor columns, most authors are paid
> for their work.

> What compensation are you offering your
> contributors?

It Worked For Yanik Silver...
 

If I remember correctly, his Autoresponder Magic e-book was mostly contributions from others. And since that thing had such incredible market penetration, I'll bet the authors received a ton of traffic and credibility.

- Adam.


Get your dog to listen to you, anywhere you go!

Well, the only way to change...
 

the online preception that EVERYTHING is free, is to REQUIRE payment for your work.

> As someone who deals with writers and those
> who are not too familiar with Internet
> marketing, I am well aware of the mindset
> that you should be paid for everything you
> do.

Then if you are aware of it, you should also be aware that it is becoming more prevalent. If you want my work, pay me for my work.

> However, this is not how it works online
> (or, I would suggest, in the real world).
> Very few websites/ezines indeed would pay
> someone for a contribution; and I am
> personally unaware of any marketers that
> have paid people to contribute to their
> ebooks.

You also suggest this is how it works in the rel world??? What rock have you crawled out from under? There isn't a real magazine or newspaper in the REAL WORLD that DOESN'T pay its major contributors.

And the only way WE, the authors, will change the preception of website/ezine/newsletter is to DEMAND payment for our work.

> JVs are based on mutual win-win-win
> situations where the service/product owner,
> list owner and customer are all better off
> than they would have been had the JV not
> been formed.

JVs may be based on this precept, but that doesn't mean they are always win-win-win propositions. Are you releasing your lists to the service/product providers? Or are they taking on faith that your list is relevant to their product/service?

And what happens if they get zero response from your list? How have they been compensated, then?

And are you absolutely certain your customers REALLY want to hear about Bobby Bonehead's Bulge Builder?

> I have assets (a list and those who also
> have lists of targeted prospects), the
> contributor has a service or product that
> the ebook presells for them by virtue of
> their contribution.

See my preceeding comment.

> So, for 5 mins - 30 mins work they are
> likely to gain much more in sales and/or
> subscribers than they lose in time.

"Likely to gain" does NOT mean a return on investment. You gain, but that doesn't mean your customers or your contributors gain a thing.

> I guess it comes down to whether you want a
> quick sale or an investment with an at least
> as good return or more. I'm reminded of that
> woman who sold the rights to a certain song
> for $300 and could have made millions with
> it (it was bought and used by the Cola
> Company).

No. It comes down to whether or not you want to pay for the work others contribute or if you want to piggy-back on the work of those NOT willing to ask for the money.

Re: Negative posts
 

Darren
Kinda surprising people spent less time advising you than criticizing you. Keep putting the word out, and the ones who are "insulted" will let you know. Others realize it's a marathon, not an event and will be happy to become a part of a viral activity.

Stay the course and remember when you come under attack, you're close to something good.

Blessings
Michael

> Eve,

> Thank you for your comments. I must say that
> the responses on this forum have been much
> different to those forums I normally
> frequent. ;)

> I am not aware of any contributor ebooks
> where the contributors were offered payment.
> The basis for marketer-to-marketer business
> is normally via JVs.

> I have certain assets, they have certian
> assets which benefit us both and also the
> eventual customer/subscriber.

> I see your point though and believe that is
> has some validity to it; however, I am quite
> happy with the contributors thus far, and
> who are not by any means unsuccessful in
> what they do.

> Go to any successful online business and you
> will see that the savvy ones presell their
> services or product with a great deal of
> quality free information and guidance.

> Thanks again for your comments.

> Darren.




THE direct path to becoming a broadcaster

It's a marathon, not an event!
 

Michael -

Boy is that the truth!

And this is likely why so many people become frustrated today. They buy into the "instant this, instant that" hype that usually only separates them from their money.

I'm developing a "tortoise vs. the hare" market timing method for getting rich in real estate. Being "persistent yet patient" is one of the key human attributes needed to profit from this method and your post gave me a few new and inspiring ideas.

Good post.

Robert Campbell


Timing the Real Estate Market