Is “Marketing” by “Wants” dead?
 

Seth Godin has made the argument that traditional marketing as we know is DOA (these are the points made by Mr. Godin in my language but I think I’ve given an accurate portrayal of his views):

1. People aren’t buying new products… they can’t afford it, they don’t have the time to use/enjoy it or they just plain don’t want it.
A. Budgets are stretched to the point of snapping for the consumer, the business and the government. The ability to buy unknown and unfamiliar products is small.
B. No one has time. At least that’s what everyone says. If they perceive they don’t have time they are hesitant to get involved with any product or project that is going to cannibalize even more of their time.
C. We have “everything” we want. The person of today lacks very little and we just aren’t as needy as we use to be.
D. Even if we do want it the selection afforded us in virtually every product category and service is limitless and due to overcapacity and competitive pressures usually very affordable and accessible.

Mr. Godin point out that in the last 20 years or so, we have gone from having more time/fewer choices to little time/more choices. That being the case the way we marketed products 20 years ago (or less) can’t work in today’s environment.

In today’s market the consumer will:
1. Will ignore you… they have too many messages directed at them and are quite frankly bored with the whole process.
2. Will not tell his or her friends of your superior product/service because no one has the time to do that.

The typical markets are gone… anything from frozen pizzas to pain relievers to books on yoga to ebooks on selling products on Ebay. All have reached the point of oversaturation.

The old rules just don’t work anymore.

Do you agree with Seth Godin?

And if you agree (even a little) what do we as marketers of products and services do about it?

If you don’t agree I would enjoy hearing why…

Take care,

Mike Winicki

Re: Is “Marketing” by “Wants” dead?
 

I really don't understand this argument.

If frozen pizza isn't selling, why do they stock the fridge at my local supermarket full of them?

If people have less time, then why has E-bay exploded in popularity? Seems kind of odd that-- if people have less time, they are somehow able to spend hours browsing and bidding on E-bay items. Especially nonsensical items like packing popcorn in the shape of Elvis.

If people don't "need" anything anymore and don't have time to experiment with new products, then why are so many brick and mortal companies finding success on the internet? (Despite the .com bomb).

And how would Godin explain the phenominal interest in the "IT" people mover invention?

I just don't buy Godin's argument. Maybe it seems this way to him because his last book sold so poorly. :)

- Adam.


Dog Training Information... Get your dog to listen to you, anywhere you go!

Let me clarify Adam...
 

> I really don't understand this argument.

> If frozen pizza isn't selling, why do they
> stock the fridge at my local supermarket
> full of them?

The point about the "frozen pizzas" is not that they aren't selling it's that there are tons of companies selling them, which makes it an extremely difficult market to break into. As are most markets... again overcapacity and oversaturation have created a bonanza for the consumer and a huge road-block for new competitors in that market.

> If people have less time, then why has E-bay
> exploded in popularity? Seems kind of odd
> that-- if people have less time, they are
> somehow able to spend hours browsing and
> bidding on E-bay items. Especially
> nonsensical items like packing popcorn in
> the shape of Elvis.

That is exactly why people have less time. You and I may agree that searching for packing popcorn shaped like Elvis maybe a complete waste of time but to the people doing it, it is extremely important. You as a marketer now have the daunting task of trying to get this consumer to stop looking for Elvis long enough to pay attention to your marketing message.

> If people don't "need" anything
> anymore and don't have time to experiment
> with new products, then why are so many
> brick and mortal companies finding success
> on the internet? (Despite the .com bomb).

You see that is exactly why the brick & mortar and catalog companies are doing so well on the net--they bring years of relationship building to the table. People deal with Dell, LL Bean, Lands End, Blair and the others because they've dealt with them off-line. It was the companies that had no prior relationship that got killed. Amazon paid and continues to pay a steep price for doing things the "new" way and trying to forge a relationship where none existed before the Internet.

> And how would Godin explain the phenominal
> interest in the "IT" people mover
> invention?

I'm not familiar with this so I can't comment.

> I just don't buy Godin's argument. Maybe it
> seems this way to him because his last book
> sold so poorly. :)

Maybe it is.

> - Adam.

Re: Let me clarify Adam...
 

> The point about the "frozen
> pizzas" is not that they aren't selling
> it's that there are tons of companies
> selling them, which makes it an extremely
> difficult market to break into. As are most
> markets... again overcapacity and
> oversaturation have created a bonanza for
> the consumer and a huge road-block for new
> competitors in that market.

I still don't buy his argument. It reeks of, "Oh, how things were so much better in the good 'ol days."

There is a larger market today, with greater demand for frozen pizza than ever before. This is why there are more companies selling frozen pizza. Plus, technology and advertisers to reach consumers more effectively (cheaper) than ever before.

> That is exactly why people have less time.
> You and I may agree that searching for
> packing popcorn shaped like Elvis maybe a
> complete waste of time but to the people
> doing it, it is extremely important. You as
> a marketer now have the daunting task of
> trying to get this consumer to stop looking
> for Elvis long enough to pay attention to
> your marketing message.

People don't really have less time. They only THINK they have less time. The average work week has gone from 14 hour days to 8 hour days in the last 100 years, while the amount of disposable income and size of the market has increased.

> You see that is exactly why the brick &
> mortar and catalog companies are doing so
> well on the net--they bring years of
> relationship building to the table. People
> deal with Dell, LL Bean, Lands End, Blair
> and the others because they've dealt with
> them off-line. It was the companies that had
> no prior relationship that got killed.

I disagree. This a myth that has been perpetuated by the media. The truth is: Companies with poor business models got creamed. In contrast, companies with no prior relationship have prospered. Small, local businesses no have access to consumers in other markets. For example, my father's small sign shop in S. Calif. now does 30% more business than before the internet, to business on the other side of the country. They had no prior relationship with him, and because of geographic distance, would have NEVER known of him.

> Amazon paid and continues to pay a steep
> price for doing things the "new"
> way and trying to forge a relationship where
> none existed before the Internet.

No, Amazon pays a huge price for trying to train make the consumer do things in a new way. And because their business model has very low profit margins.

> I'm not familiar with this so I can't
> comment.

> Maybe it is.

I don't know... I've just never been a big fan of Godin. I've wanted to be... as he has a knack for picking topics that are very interesting to me... but he just neveer seems to deliver on the follow through.

I signed up for his e-zine when his "Permission Marketing" book came out, and to date I think I've only received on e-mail from him. This could be a fluke... have you received regular e-mails from him?

- Adam.




Dog training information: Secrets of a Professional Dog Trainer... click here...

Here is something I agree with...
 

> For example, my father's
> small sign shop in S. Calif. now does 30%
> more business than before the internet, to
> business on the other side of the country.
> They had no prior relationship with him, and
> because of geographic distance, would have
> NEVER known of him.

Our family business rents cottages on the Bay of Fundy in Nova Scotia. MacLellans Cottages online is responsible for 30-35 percent of all bookings... maybe more.

We've noticed a number of these people who found us on the web have become repeat customers every year.

Regards,
Steve MacLellan




homebusiness-websites.com

Re: Here is something I agree with...
 

Yes... I've noticed the same results with people out here in Texas. One guy who owns an 8,000 sq. ft. B&B said that he does no marketing at all... 100% of his business has been from the net.

Marketing by Wants is not dead but the death knell sounds for...
 

...selling by numbers. Both metaphorically and actually.

The rules of selling and marketing *have* changed. How could they not in the explosion of the Information Age?

Most problems in increasing market share stem from using outmoded tools in a changed world.

As an experienced professional who sells direct to business owners I know the massive shift that has taken place.

They are astute people and they are fed up to the back teeth of almost any kind of cold approach. And they get loads..and it increases by the HOUR!

It must be like being the only good looking girl in a night club of leering men

The old sales reality says 'just keep asking her out...its a numbers game'

While the New Reality screams for God's sake do and say something *different* that *works*!

New tools are needed in a New Reality

Its likely that anyone increasing market share today (generally speaking) is unwittingly using some of the New Reality strategies...or...they are ranked well in search engines in a profitable niche.

The problem being if it is a niche attracting people to spend others (in the information age) will soon get to know so success can be shrtlived.

Understanding the New Reality and using the right tools is the only long term solution in warp speed times.

Great thread. Take care,
Andy


Selling in a New Reality

Re: Is “Marketing” by “Wants” dead?
 

I'm no expert. I can only speak about my
own buying habits:
generally I don't buy what I "want" but
I buy "what I think the product can do
fro me".
Just my point of view.

Re: Is “Marketing” by “Wants” dead?
 

Hello everyone.

Seth you are right. Things need to change, and they need to change quick. Your post gave off a hint of MLM or network marketing in particular. The traditional strategy (prospecting, pitching your friends, advertising) are dying. They are not quite dead, which is why only some of us can see the end coming.

So what do we do? We don't do anything new. We do business how it use to be done. How is that you ask?

Well, you made the point that there seems to be less time for people these days, and an increase in choices. So what we need to do is make OUR business and products stand out. We DO NOT do that by having flashier advertisements, or "new and improved" products. We build relationships, we create personal touch, we get to know people. We MUST see people as more than a potential dollar.

When it comes down to crunch time, people will buy from the people they know and trust, and they will feel better about their decision as well.

So how do we create this 'Personal Touch', and this relationship with people around the world using the internet? In my opinion, you can build trust and honesty on the internet. Enough so that people will buy from you, and people will even join in business with you -- if we are talking MLM. We build virtual communities, online groups. We build a place for people to network. We create a theme around our product and business opportunity. We bring and keep people in these communities by building friendships. We see people as people, and treat them that way.

Here is a little example of what I mean:

A Flourist has the choice of openning an online store that sells his flowers, and try to drive traffic do it using old methods such as advertisements and banners, or he can build an online community where flowers are involved -- a part of the concept.

He could call his community "Romance Central". Instead of talking flowers, he talks Love, relationships, dating, marriage, the opposite sex etc... He builds relationships here. People come here to talk about these issues that are occurring in their lives. Maybe they don't need flowers at that given time, but what happens when they get married? They need flowers. A new girlfriend? They could use some flowers -- and so on. Now, why would they go shopping around the net looking at the other 1000 flourists online, when they have been attending this online community, accumulating valuable knowledge and opinions -- that also just happens to sell flowers? :) Trust, honesty, and a relationship has been established. This is how you use the internet.

You don't just provide a website, and an order form. You jump in on this community. You participate as well.

Don't believe this works? Set up two online groups. (You can do this for free by the way, by using yahoo groups.) Use one group to build a romance/relationship theme, and the other to just sell flowers. I will bet you can grow your group quicker, and create a possitive atmosphere. Of course, you could adjust this statement and this challenge to any industry of your choice.

I know this works, because I do it personally. As a result, I feel better about myself at the end of the day, because I'm not out there pitching products and business opportunities. I'm providing help... education if you will to people who are interested in the theme. The product interest just naturally follows in many cases.

Best of luck to everyone.

Thank you

Josh

> Seth Godin has made the argument that
> traditional marketing as we know is DOA
> (these are the points made by Mr. Godin in
> my language but I think I’ve given an
> accurate portrayal of his views):

> 1. People aren’t buying new products… they
> can’t afford it, they don’t have the time to
> use/enjoy it or they just plain don’t want
> it.
> A. Budgets are stretched to the point of
> snapping for the consumer, the business and
> the government. The ability to buy unknown
> and unfamiliar products is small.
> B. No one has time. At least that’s what
> everyone says. If they perceive they don’t
> have time they are hesitant to get involved
> with any product or project that is going to
> cannibalize even more of their time.
> C. We have “everything” we want. The person
> of today lacks very little and we just
> aren’t as needy as we use to be.
> D. Even if we do want it the selection
> afforded us in virtually every product
> category and service is limitless and due to
> overcapacity and competitive pressures
> usually very affordable and accessible.

> Mr. Godin point out that in the last 20
> years or so, we have gone from having more
> time/fewer choices to little time/more
> choices. That being the case the way we
> marketed products 20 years ago (or less)
> can’t work in today’s environment.

> In today’s market the consumer will:
> 1. Will ignore you… they have too many
> messages directed at them and are quite
> frankly bored with the whole process.
> 2. Will not tell his or her friends of your
> superior product/service because no one has
> the time to do that.

> The typical markets are gone… anything from
> frozen pizzas to pain relievers to books on
> yoga to ebooks on selling products on Ebay.
> All have reached the point of
> oversaturation.

> The old rules just don’t work anymore.

> Do you agree with Seth Godin?

> And if you agree (even a little) what do we
> as marketers of products and services do
> about it?

> If you don’t agree I would enjoy hearing
> why…

> Take care,

> Mike Winicki

Wants vs Needs vs Have To Have vs Enticement vs Search You Out
 

> 1. People aren’t buying new products… they
> can’t afford it, they don’t have the time to
> use/enjoy it or they just plain don’t want
> it.

That's about as general as you can get. And it will apply to certain sections and market segments while being totally off the mark with other market segments.

New houses. New cars. New DVDs and DVD players. New computers. New Digital cameras.

> A. Budgets are stretched to the point of
> snapping for the consumer, the business and
> the government. The ability to buy unknown
> and unfamiliar products is small.

The ability to buy unknown and unfamiliar products is different to the DESIRE to buy them. Either way, the situation hasn't changed too much. Unknown and unfamiliar products have always been hard to sell. Because it is unknown and unfamiliar people consider money is better spent elsewhere.

Either way. People have always thought this way.

> B. No one has time. At least that’s what
> everyone says. If they perceive they don’t
> have time they are hesitant to get involved
> with any product or project that is going to
> cannibalize even more of their time.

People always think they have no time. Even people with plenty of time. And if it "looks" to hard, it is avoided. Again, a common human trait.

> C. We have “everything” we want. The person
> of today lacks very little and we just
> aren’t as needy as we use to be.

The people of the 20s thought this. The people of the 50s thought this. People always think this... we have everything; everything has been invented; etc.

> D. Even if we do want it the selection
> afforded us in virtually every product
> category and service is limitless and due to
> overcapacity and competitive pressures
> usually very affordable and accessible.

True-ish. If you know where to look. If you do not know where to look, then you might have a different take. And again, this is overall a P.O.V. comment.

One of my business adventures is within an industry that serves a NEED and one in which customers actively search you out. All you have to do is say "Here we are" and they come a running.

Before entering this "market" I too used to think it was flooded. And I wondered how anyone could stay in business. Now that I am in this market, I can see there is penty of business for those in it, and plenty of business to serve even more businesses entering this market.

Has the business changed? Nope. Only my perspective of it.

> Mr. Godin point out that in the last 20
> years or so, we have gone from having more
> time/fewer choices to little time/more
> choices.

True. But 20 years ago people thought the same thing. And 20 years before that they also thought the same thing.

In reality, the time is being spent more on useless activity - watching the all knowing eye, reading message boards online, etc.

> That being the case the way we
> marketed products 20 years ago (or less)
> can’t work in today’s environment.

That depends on WHAT you are marketing, WHO you are marketing to and HOW you marketed in the past.

ROLEXES HERE. Will have as much pull these days as it did 20 years ago. Specially when aimed at those who are more inclined to buy them.

> In today’s market the consumer will:
> 1. Will ignore you… they have too many
> messages directed at them and are quite
> frankly bored with the whole process.

Ignoring selling messages is nothing new.

> 2. Will not tell his or her friends of your
> superior product/service because no one has
> the time to do that.

Not spreading the Good word is nothing new.

> The typical markets are gone… anything from
> frozen pizzas to pain relievers to books on
> yoga to ebooks on selling products on Ebay.
> All have reached the point of
> oversaturation.

Maybe that is how it appears to someone looking in from the outside. This was how I thought too, until I entered just such a market only to discover the reverse was true - plenty of business and room for more competitors.

> The old rules just don’t work anymore.

There is some debate they ever did - if we're talking manipulative selling techniques.

> Do you agree with Seth Godin?

In this case I would say that Seth has not really said anything new. Just said same old stuff in a different way.

Just like his Purple Cow article which is another way to say USP, be innovative, etc.

> And if you agree (even a little) what do we
> as marketers of products and services do
> about it?

That depends if your business has slowly declined because you had been tricked into using techniques that were always flawed. And only you can answer that for yourself.

Michael Ross

What Market Is it?
 

"Now that I am in this market, I can see there is penty of business for those in it, and plenty of business to serve even more businesses entering this market. "

Okay... so what market is it? What are you selling?

- Adam.

Re: What Market Is it?--My guess is......
 

> Okay... so what market is it? What are you
> selling?

> - Adam.

A large insatiable market that keeps on growing and spending?

Methinks it's the age old pastime--sex.

Coincidentally, I spoke to a web designer in Sydney who mentioned that Queensland has some of the worlds biggest sex sites, and that he was setting up a server there himself. This guy had a pretty slick multi media company, so there must be a bundle of money in it to change direction.

Larry Jennings

Re: What Market Is it?
 

> "Now that I am in this market, I can
> see there is penty of business for those in
> it, and plenty of business to serve even
> more businesses entering this market. "

> Okay... so what market is it? What are you
> selling?

Adam:

I'd like to tell you... but if I did, I would have to erase your memory :o)

Actually, that information is reserved for subscribers of The Great Ideas Letter only. I'm in the middle of a little report on it - ten pages written already. And when it's done, subscribers to The Great Ideas Letter will get a copy Free.

Michael Ross

Nope...
 

> A large insatiable market that keeps on
> growing and spending?

> Methinks it's the age old pastime--sex.

Larry:

Good guess... but wrong.

What is it?

Can't tell you. That's privileged information which will only be revealed to subscribers of The Great Ideas Letter once I've finished writing my report.

Michael Ross


The Great Ideas Letter

I haven't read the other responses but...
 

I am beginning to believe that people are turning off the mass marketing message and moving into the one-on-one message.

I know I'd rather talk IN PERSON to knowledgeable sales person about a new computer than than call an 800 number half way across the country.

I WANT to build a personal relationship with a sales person prior to parting with my money. And I am beginning to think others are wanting the same thing.

In January I shelled out almost $900 for a new super duper faster than the warp 9 computer system. About two weeks after the purchase it started freezing on me either at bootup or while I was working on something.

Unfortunately, I was under deadline and couldn't take it in until last week.

The guy that sold it to me is also the technician and he immediately identified the probable cause. Unfortunately, even though he was right, I had to wait a week to get the machine back (parts backorder).

Then today, he calls to make sure the computer is working without any more problems... It is and we talked about 20 minutes about everything under the sun.

THAT is the kind of sales person I want to deal with. Someone that not only understands my WANT for a fast machine, but also someone that understands my WANT for good service and an ear to bend about the BS that is happening around town.

You aren't going to get that calling 800-GimmeUrMoney.

Now, on the the other responses...

I would tend to disagree with you on this, Sandy...
 

> I'm no expert. I can only speak about my
> own buying habits:
> generally I don't buy what I
> "want" but
> I buy "what I think the product can do
> fro me".
> Just my point of view.

Every product on the market can do something for you. But you narrow your selection because of some underlying want you may or may not be aware of.

For lack of a better example right now, let's say I want to color my hair to cover my gray. I know EVERY hair color product out there will do the job. Some better than others.

I know I WANT to look good, so that eliminates some of the products due to my preceived knowledge of given products... i.e. I want a natural color, not a brassy redhead or platnium blonde.

One would ASSUME that the more expensive the product, the better job it would do, but that may NOT be the case, so I do a bit of research on the 'Net and/or through Consumer Reports.

The point I am trying to make here is that even though I have decided on a given product that I THINK give me a good natural color I still WANT to look good.

The underlying want is to look good. The decision gives the product I think will accomplish this.

semantics..
 

> I see your point; but I would buy
a hair product which I think would
give me the look I want which would
satisfy my need to have a nice hair
color(which is what the product is
doing for me:giving me the look I
like)
We could go circular with this argument;
but the bottom line is I look for something
more other than just "wanting it"...
Let's not take it any deeper-I know what
I mean for myself.
Thanks for your opinion

Every product on the market can do something
> for you. But you narrow your selection
> because of some underlying want you may or
> may not be aware of.

> For lack of a better example right now,
> let's say I want to color my hair to cover
> my gray. I know EVERY hair color product out
> there will do the job. Some better than
> others.

> I know I WANT to look good, so that
> eliminates some of the products due to my
> preceived knowledge of given products...
> i.e. I want a natural color, not a brassy
> redhead or platnium blonde.

> One would ASSUME that the more expensive the
> product, the better job it would do, but
> that may NOT be the case, so I do a bit of
> research on the 'Net and/or through Consumer
> Reports.

> The point I am trying to make here is that
> even though I have decided on a given
> product that I THINK give me a good natural
> color I still WANT to look good.

> The underlying want is to look good. The
> decision gives the product I think will
> accomplish this.

Warp 9 ????
 

Steve,

I have to ask: Where did you get warp 9 speed for $900 and what kind is it? Also kind of curious as to the problem you had.

Dave

Re: Warp 9 ????
 

Actually, Dave it is a 1.8GH with 256MB RAM, 40GH HD, new Samtron Monitor, DVD player, CDRW, and Lexmark Z22 1200x1200 DPI printer.

Oh, and the usual keyboard, mouse, 1.44 floppy, etc.

But after working on a P266, it seems like Warp 9...