Robert Allen Apparently In Serious Condition
 

I don't know how many of you know or know of Robert Allen but he wrote the original "Nothing Down" book in the 1980s. Many of today's nothing down real estate investing techniques are based on concepts he wrote about over 20 years ago. He has since gone on to create fortunes for himself and others as a successful information marketer. His latest book was co-authored with Mark Victor Hansen (of "Chicken Soup for the Soul" fame).

I just heard that Robert was in an accident and is in intensive care in the San Diego area. I will attempt to confirm this with his organization.

Please keep him in your thoughts and prayers.

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

Re: Robert Allen Apparently In Serious Condition
 

Hi Rick,

Thank you for posting that.... There's some great business and investment information in Robert Allen's books. His latest book, "The One Minute Millionaire" (written with Mark Victor Hansen) has also been highly recommended to me.... (Though I haven't read it yet.)

I pray that he will have a quick and complete recovery....

- Dien Rice

Re: The REAL Robert G. Allen
 

Hey folks -

I am truly sorry about Mr. Allens injuries - I hope he will be okay and have a complete recovery.

That said, I think it my personal responsibility to inform anyone on this board how he is viewed by REAL real estate investors - further to show his actual record that few are aware of...

(Btw, please don't think this as "bashing a guy while he's down" - I write this simply because I thought people on this board knew better than to follow the advice of charlatins)

Go to this site and scroll down to Robert G. Allen (the page takes a while to load - please be patient):


Robert Allen and other "so called" experts

Re: The REAL Robert G. Allen
 

Anonymous -

(Not sure why you didn't post your name but whatever)

> That said, I think it my personal
> responsibility to inform anyone on this
> board how he is viewed by REAL real estate
> investors - further to show his actual
> record that few are aware of...

> (Btw, please don't think this as
> "bashing a guy while he's down" -
> I write this simply because I thought people
> on this board knew better than to follow the
> advice of charlatins)

Ah, yes. Good old John T. Reed. Have you ever noticed how Mr. Reed is the self-chosen "lone voice in the wilderness" thumping his chest and proclaiming that he does not recommend 95% of the "gurus"? I don't want to spend a lot of time dwelling on this. We've discussed Mr. Reed here in the past. But let's examine Mr. Reed's position in all of this. Does Mr. Reed stand to profit by bashing others? As a matter of fact, he does. It seems Mr. Reed sells his own real estate information. So he bashes others to get you to buy his information. Kinda makes his motives suspect, doesn't it?

I can't speak to all of the details about Mr. Allen. I don't know him personally and have not researched them. However, I do know this. Mr. Allen is not making his bankruptcy a secret. He comes right out and says it in his latest materials. Both he and Mark Victor Hansen readily admit that they have both been bankrupt.

One other point about Mr. Reed. Ron LeGrand is among the many people he bashes. I have met a number of people using Ron LeGrand's techniques to legally do quite well for themselves. Ron LeGrand's techniques are based on those of Robert Allen. Ron LeGrand himself says it was a Robert Allen seminar that got him started. There is *nothing* illegal that I can see about the no money down techniques taught by Ron LeGrand or his mentor, Robert Allen. Are there people who have gone to jail for taking advantage of people by twisting these techniques? You better believe it. William McCorkle was one of the most famous cases. And there were others. It's just like anything else. You can make of it what you will. To further make the point, Gary Halbert once went to prison because he didn't deliver on his promises. Does that make direct marketing illegal? Of course not.

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

Re: Robert Allen Apparently In Serious Condition
 

Dien -

> Thank you for posting that.... There's some
> great business and investment information in
> Robert Allen's books. His latest book,
> "The One Minute Millionaire"
> (written with Mark Victor Hansen) has also
> been highly recommended to me.... (Though I
> haven't read it yet.)

I agree. I have many of them. I think my favorite is "The One Minute Millionaire." I have made a number of personal commitments to carry out the principles taught in that book. See your e-mail for more information. I'll explain more there.

> I pray that he will have a quick and
> complete recovery....

As do I.

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

Re: The REAL Robert G. Allen
 

Rick,

I still can't understand why you bash Reed's arguments?

Who cares what his motivations are, if his arguments hold water???

As for Robert Allen and Legrand... I have nothing against charging exhorbitant fees if you're delivering something that no one else in the market is delivering and if what you're teaching is on the up and up. But when there are many other players in the field offering better products at cheaper prices, then basically what you're left with is somebody who takes advantage of the newbie and the inexperienced.

Re: The REAL Robert G. Allen
 

Adam -

> I still can't understand why you bash Reed's
> arguments?

I'm *not* bashing Reed's arguments. Quite frankly, as I said in my previous post, I don't know if they're valid or not since I haven't researched them. I'm questioning his motives.

> Who cares what his motivations are, if his
> arguments hold water???

I care. I think it's wrong for him to sit there appearing as some self-acclaimed, self-righteous bag of wind spouting how bad everyone else is when the truth of the matter is, it appears he really wants to sell his own material. For me, it comes under the heading of something I learned in grammar school. "Don't tear others down just to make yourself look good." Now maybe, in reality, Reed is a nice guy but he doesn't come off looking that way to me.

> As for Robert Allen and Legrand... I have
> nothing against charging exhorbitant fees if
> you're delivering something that no one else
> in the market is delivering and if what
> you're teaching is on the up and up.

I have found *nothing* in either one of their teachings that indicate they are *not* on the up and up. When they started they were pretty much the only games in town. Believe me, I think the price of the information from most of these guys is *waaaaay* too high. But we (me included) are still buying it. This stuff (real estate investing, info marketing, etc.) must be selling like hot cakes because they keep coming out with more of it.

> But when there are many other players in the
> field offering better products at cheaper
> prices

Being an info junkie myself, (Ask Gordon. He's seen my bookshelves. (g) ), I'd be more than happy to hear about other players offering better products at cheaper prices. I'm serious. I know who most (if not all) of the RE info marketers are but I would be interested to see which ones you know about in case I missed some. For one, I think Pete Egeler has an interesting idea with FSBOs and I'd like to learn more about it.

> then basically what you're left with
> is somebody who takes advantage of the
> newbie and the inexperienced.

I disagree with you on this one. While LeGrand does get plenty of newbies into his pipeline, I know of *many* full time RE investors who are doing quite well who own everything he produces, have gone to every one of his seminars, etc. He has a number of items that go *well* beyond the newbie level. And as you can well imagine, the cost of this goes into the *tens of thousands*.
Is someone taken advantage of if they buy the material, put it to work, and profit from it? Not IMO.

On a different note, I took a look at your RE site. I liked what I saw. Just out of curiosity, if you wouldn't mind telling me, which RE "guru" (so to speak) was/is your mentor?

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

Re: The REAL Robert G. Allen
 

Adam -

To judge an ice skating competition, would you be suspicious if the Russian skaters were on the panel that judges the American skaters ... or visa versa?

That questions, of course, answers itself.

Whether he is right or wrong, this is the inherent problem with John T. Reed's evaluations of his competitors.

Robert Campbell




Timing the Real Estate Market

Re: The REAL Robert G. Allen
 

Robert,

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!
:)

Granted, I don't see eye-to-eye with all of Reed's evaluations, but being judged by one's peers is the halmark of a mature and professional industry.

Ask my opinion about other dog trainers and I will be brutally frank with you about which ones are good and which are not. And most of them aren't.

I think it's petty to suggest that simply because I happen to sell dog training info. products, that I have to sit quietly while others in my industry con and misinform the public.

- Adam.

P.S. Yes, I know... Reed isn't ALWAYS right. But most of his stuff is on the mark.

P.P.S. Buy


Robert's book... I've been reading his RE opinions and his book is at the top of my TO ORDER list.

Re: The REAL Robert G. Allen
 

> Adam -

> I'm *not* bashing Reed's arguments.

Okay, you're saying that he bashes others to sell his products. I don't see him bashing anyone to sell his products. But in suggesting that he does, it seems like you're bashing him. Guess it's a matter of perspective, huh?

> I care. I think it's wrong for him to sit
> there appearing as some self-acclaimed,

>>Why is he self-acclaimed? The guy is Harvard educated and he's worked in the RE industry. He isn't self-acclaimed. He's posting on his own web site. It's not like he's posting his opinions on someone else's web site.

> self-righteous bag of wind

>> Rick, you're bashing again.

>spouting how bad
> everyone else is

>> Now you're bashing and distorting.

>when the truth of the
> matter is, it appears he really wants to
> sell his own material.

>> Yes, he wants to sell his own material. He doesn't hide this. It's a commercial web site. He points out misinformation and then says "Buy this, instead... it's better. Or, don't buy my stuff, but buy one of these other guy's stuff (the recommended gurus). I don't see anything wrong with this. What IS wrong is when gurus paint a rosey picture of investing and fail to adequately cover the risks and potential pitfalls.

>For me, it comes
> under the heading of something I learned in
> grammar school. "Don't tear others down
> just to make yourself look good."

>>Not for me. For me it comes down to: Don't sit quiet and watch while others sell potentially dangerous information to your market.

>Now
> maybe, in reality, Reed is a nice guy but he
> doesn't come off looking that way to me.

>>I guess it's just a matter of perception. To me, he's an old-style investor but with good intentions.

> I have found *nothing* in either one of
> their teachings that indicate they are *not*
> on the up and up. When they started they
> were pretty much the only games in town.

>>This isn't true. (Please see next post).

> Believe me, I think the price of the
> information from most of these guys is
> *waaaaay* too high. But we (me included) are
> still buying it. This stuff (real estate
> investing, info marketing, etc.) must be
> selling like hot cakes because they keep
> coming out with more of it.

>>Just because it's selling like hotcakes doesn't mean it makes for a wise investment. William J. McCorkle sold a lot of crap, too.

Please see next post.
> Being an info junkie myself, (Ask Gordon.
> He's seen my bookshelves. (g) ), I'd be more
> than happy to hear about other players
> offering better products at cheaper prices.
> I'm serious. I know who most (if not all) of
> the RE info marketers are but I would be
> interested to see which ones you know about
> in case I missed some. For one, I think Pete
> Egeler has an interesting idea with FSBOs
> and I'd like to learn more about it.

> I disagree with you on this one. While
> LeGrand does get plenty of newbies into his
> pipeline, I know of *many* full time RE
> investors who are doing quite well who own
> everything he produces, have gone to every
> one of his seminars, etc. He has a number of
> items that go *well* beyond the newbie
> level. And as you can well imagine, the cost
> of this goes into the *tens of thousands*.
> Is someone taken advantage of if they buy
> the material, put it to work, and profit
> from it? Not IMO.

> On a different note, I took a look at your
> RE site. I liked what I saw. Just out of
> curiosity, if you wouldn't mind telling me,
> which RE "guru" (so to speak)
> was/is your mentor?

> Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

More...
 

(Please read other post, first.)

> Being an info junkie myself, (Ask Gordon.
> He's seen my bookshelves. (g) ), I'd be more
> than happy to hear about other players
> offering better products at cheaper prices.
> I'm serious. I know who most (if not all) of
> the RE info marketers are but I would be
> interested to see which ones you know about
> in case I missed some. For one, I think Pete
> Egeler has an interesting idea with FSBOs
> and I'd like to learn more about it.

Haven't been exposed to P. Egeler.

> I disagree with you on this one. While
> LeGrand does get plenty of newbies into his
> (edited)
> Is someone taken advantage of if they buy
> the material, put it to work, and profit
> from it? Not IMO.

I don't think this is the test. Because you can find somebody who will learn something from a blank piece of paper, and still go out and make money due to dumb luck, natural aptitude, chance, hard work, whatever. The test needs to be: How does the info. work AND how does it stack up compared to the rest of what is on the market.

> On a different note, I took a look at your
> RE site. I liked what I saw. Just out of
> curiosity, if you wouldn't mind telling me,
> which RE "guru" (so to speak)
> was/is your mentor?

I've done a lot of study, since we last talked about this. My internet company puts food on the table and only requires a couple of hours a day to make a full time living, so I have a lot of time to spend goofing off. I joined the local RE Investment club, became great friends with the top RE Attorney in Texas (we have lunch now, once a week), and have picked up two mentors-- one, a man who own 30 houses and started about four years ago, and the other a woman who owns about 14 houses. I've also been devouring most of the more popular info. courses and have been running newspaper and radio ads. Last month I talked with a ton of motivated sellers, and I've been fortunate to have made the contacts I have, because even though I could have bought probably 5 or 6 houses no money down last month, I don't feel they were actual "deals." Surprise, surprise.

I have most of Legrand's stuff... and to tell you the truth, there is a lot of good stuff in there. Much more than Rob. Allen's. But there is also a lot of dangerous stuff.

One thing that bothers me about Legrand in particular, is that he (when last I checked) still sells his course on buying using Lease Options. But according to several people who are affiliates of his old company, SDI, he no longer advocates buying on L/O. He recommends that you DON'T do it.

So, if he's still selling (to the best of my knowledge) courses on how to buy with L/O strike... isn't this dangerous, and possibly unethical?

I've also reviewed the course by Randi and Charlie Frances... one of Legrand's top students. Their course is expensive, but very complete for the beginner. However, if you took this course alone and used their strategy in the market here in Austin, you'd get creme-ed. I'm sorry, but the no equity deals they preach that you should do will get you slaughtered when the market drops and you can't unload it, drop rents, or have enough positive to cover vacancy and maintenence.

I've read one of Joe Kaiser's courses... awesome stuff. A real straight shooter.

There is a book called 5 Magic Paths to Real Estate by a guy named Lumbley, if I remember... which is pretty good.

Some of Bronchick's stuff is good... but not AS GOOD as everyone hypes it up to be.

Conti & Finkle's books sounded great... until I learned how it really works in the real world. Met Conti at our local club and he seemed like a conman. Wouldn't answer ANY questions at the end of his lecture/pitch to sell his stuff at the back of the room.

Tim Randle is coming out with a course that I've been able to preview, and his stuff is dead on. Watch for it... It will save you a lot of money.

Dwan and Sharon's stuff is kind of on the light side. Buy it on E-bay if you can get a cheap enough price. There is some good descriptions about the foreclosure process and short sales (although light and not worth the money)... and one of the women's voices really annoys me to the point of drinking.

I've heard a one hour lecture by John Schaub, and I'm interested in hearing more on his approach.

Legrand's marketing course is fairly good... but mostly Dan Kennedy re-hash.

Nickerson's stuff is dense and hard to get through, as is Al Lowry.

There's probably more I'm forgetting. Throw some names at me, and I'll have an opinion. I have an opinion on everything.

- Adam.


Adam buys houses....

What a shame...all this talk about bashing!
 

I'm sorry to say how let down this makes me feel.

You all seem to be intelligent and thoughtful individuals with many different opinions, and I respect your right to have them...but this thread was started to let others know about the condition and circumstance of a renowned individual who matters to some...but more importantly is just a man who needs our prayers.

If it were Mr. Reed himself, I would still pray for the man, or any and all of you who have posted in this thread.

Just my thoughts about this thread.

Robin R

Re: The REAL Robert G. Allen
 

Adam -

> Okay, you're saying that he bashes others to
> sell his products. I don't see him bashing
> anyone to sell his products. But in
> suggesting that he does, it seems like
> you're bashing him. Guess it's a matter of
> perspective, huh?

I suppose it *is* a matter of perspective. You and I have discussed and agreed on a number of things over the years. It appears we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

But Rick...
 

But Rick...

Waaaaaaaaaaaa

That's no fun!!!!

:)

- Adam.

Not to be a post hog... one thing I forgot...
 

One thing I fogot to mention...

It seems like almost all of the guys who have been successful doing RE full time (creatively) don't stick with one specific model, but have a variety of ways to buy and finance and profit from a house.

Sub.2, Wrap, Short Sale, L/O... so that they can adapt to whereever the seller or buyer needs.

Re: What a shame...all this talk about bashing!
 

Robin,

I think I speak for all of us when I say that we wish the man a speedy recovery-- on a personal level.

But we like to argue and discuss and analyze and discuss some more... that's why we participate in these forums. We're not bashing each other... we're all friends (as far as I'm concerned).

Just exchanging opinions. :)

There are valuable ideas in Robert Allen's works - but do this as well
 

With everything you read, I think it pays to read widely. That includes, of course, when you read Robert Allen's stuff (along with everyone else's stuff as well). Let me explain.

For example, I have Robert Allen's book, "Creating Wealth". In that book, he covers a lot of different topics. I would tend to see this book as a possible "launching point" - it introduces you to a lot of ideas. It's valuable for introducing you to a lot of ideas which you might otherwise never even consider. However, for many of these ideas, you'll need to read more widely to be able to use these ideas with maximum profit and minimum risk.

My own studies haven't focused on Robert Allen though - I've tended to focus my activities mostly on mail order marketing / direct response marketing techniques on one hand, and stock market investment (Warren Buffett style) on the other hand.

Nevertheless, I think there are valuable ideas in his books - but of course, always read widely to get a more complete view of ANY topic.

And it goes without saying, don't do anything illegal (or which you feel is unethical). Books can't always cover this, because what is legal in one place, is illegal somewhere else - so you have to do this homework yourself.

- Dien Rice

Re: More...
 

Adam -

> Haven't been exposed to P. Egeler.

Pete occasionally posts here. I have a link to his site. I'll dig it out and post it under another thread.

> I don't think this is the test. Because you
> can find somebody who will learn something
> from a blank piece of paper, and still go
> out and make money due to dumb luck, natural
> aptitude, chance, hard work, whatever. The
> test needs to be: How does the info. work
> AND how does it stack up compared to the
> rest of what is on the market.

Ok. I will concede that even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in awhile. Let's break down what you said into the 2 component phrases.

1. How does the info work?

The LeGrand info works quite well. There are number of people that I have spoken with that are doing well with it. This sheds light on another important point which you alluded to. The systems are *reproducible*. It's not just a case of the blind squirrel getting the acorn. I myself have not yet done as well with it as I would like because I have not yet devoted the kind of time to it that I feel it needs. But that's not the system. That's me.

Reed's info? Who knows? Like I said, I'm not in any position to make a value judgement on his info since I've not seen it.

2. How does it compare to the rest of the material available?

I think LeGrand compares quite well. The guy says he's bought and sold 1400+ houses in the last 20+ years. I have no reason not to believe him. As for the material, heck, he invented a lot of it 10+ years ago because there wasn't much out there.
And I've been happy with the amount and quality of info I've gotten in the stuff I've purchased from him.

Reed? Again, I don't know.

> I've done a lot of study, since we last
> talked about this. My internet company puts
> food on the table and only requires a couple
> of hours a day to make a full time living,
> so I have a lot of time to spend goofing
> off. I joined the local RE Investment club,
> became great friends with the top RE
> Attorney in Texas (we have lunch now, once a
> week), and have picked up two mentors-- one,
> a man who own 30 houses and started about
> four years ago, and the other a woman who
> owns about 14 houses. I've also been
> devouring most of the more popular info.
> courses and have been running newspaper and
> radio ads. Last month I talked with a ton of
> motivated sellers, and I've been fortunate
> to have made the contacts I have, because
> even though I could have bought probably 5
> or 6 houses no money down last month, I
> don't feel they were actual
> "deals." Surprise, surprise.

Adam, this is *excellent*. And like you, the biggest challenge I have so far is getting enough *real* deals into the system. (I'm developing something that I hope will help myself and others with that but I'll leave that for another time.)

> I have most of Legrand's stuff... and to
> tell you the truth, there is a lot of good
> stuff in there. Much more than Rob. Allen's.
> But there is also a lot of dangerous stuff.

I'm not using Robert Allen's real estate stuff. I have some of it but I also have his "Multiple Streams" stuff and his latest with MVH. IMO, there is *much* good material in there. And let's give him his just due. He was one of the pioneers in starting the "no money down" industry.

I'm interested to know what of LeGrand's stuff you find "dangerous."

> One thing that bothers me about Legrand in
> particular, is that he (when last I checked)
> still sells his course on buying using Lease
> Options. But according to several people who
> are affiliates of his old company, SDI, he
> no longer advocates buying on L/O. He
> recommends that you DON'T do it.

Well... I don't know why they would say that. I went to a workshop that LeGrand himself taught last summer. He *did not* mention anything about not selling on L/O. Doesn't mean he didn't change. I just don't know that and have not heard that. Now. I do know that Cameron Dunlap (teaches for SDI) will sometimes recommend buying on an L/O and selling on agreement for deed, land contract, or whatever they're called in your area. Says it protects you more that way. I will also say that I recently heard Ron say on one of the CDs that comes with "The Mentor", (a monthly newsletter), that he now tells all of his students to close all of their L/Os and subject-to deals with an attorney. He no longer recommends kitchen table closings.

> So, if he's still selling (to the best of my
> knowledge) courses on how to buy with L/O
> strike... isn't this dangerous, and possibly
> unethical?

Dangerous? I don't know. Unethical? Hmmm. Outdated? Possibly. If it's true that this is now his position.

> I've also reviewed the course by Randi and
> Charlie Frances... one of Legrand's top
> students. Their course is expensive, but
> very complete for the beginner. However, if
> you took this course alone and used their
> strategy in the market here in Austin, you'd
> get creme-ed. I'm sorry, but the no equity
> deals they preach that you should do will
> get you slaughtered when the market drops
> and you can't unload it, drop rents, or have
> enough positive to cover vacancy and
> maintenence.

I think their material is some of the most overpriced on the market. And I'm not sure what they teach about subject to that Ron doesn't teach.

> I've read one of Joe Kaiser's courses...
> awesome stuff. A real straight shooter.

I've not seen his material. I've read some of articles and he appears to be the real deal. He has written a few articles for "The Mentor" and I've read some of his stuff on Creonline.

> There is a book called 5 Magic Paths to Real
> Estate by a guy named Lumbley, if I
> remember... which is pretty good.

Hmmm. Hadn't heard of him. Lumbley. I'll check him out.

> Some of Bronchick's stuff is good... but not
> AS GOOD as everyone hypes it up to be.

I have his $20.00 book. I agree. I thought it was light. Although he had nice marketing samples which I plan to "model."

> Conti & Finkle's books sounded great...
> until I learned how it really works in the
> real world. Met Conti at our local club and
> he seemed like a conman. Wouldn't answer ANY
> questions at the end of his lecture/pitch to
> sell his stuff at the back of the room.

Interesting. The only thing of their's I have is the book that went to an e-book about a year ago. They've written some articles for "The Mentor" as well.

> Tim Randle is coming out with a course that
> I've been able to preview, and his stuff is
> dead on. Watch for it... It will save you a
> lot of money.

Tim Randle. Hmmm. Not familiar with his name. Does he post on any of the RE boards?

> Dwan and Sharon's stuff is kind of on the
> light side. Buy it on E-bay if you can get a
> cheap enough price. There is some good
> descriptions about the foreclosure process
> and short sales (although light and not
> worth the money)... and one of the women's
> voices really annoys me to the point of
> drinking.

That's good to know. I thought their stuff was overpriced as well.

> I've heard a one hour lecture by John
> Schaub, and I'm interested in hearing more
> on his approach.

John Schaub. I've heard the name but don't know anything about him.

> Legrand's marketing course is fairly good...
> but mostly Dan Kennedy re-hash.

*Which* marketing course? Oh. You mean his "Guerrilla Marketing" course? You've seen it then?

> Nickerson's stuff is dense and hard to get
> through, as is Al Lowry.

I'm aware of both of these two but have not seen their stuff. I guess Robert Allen based his RE stuff on these guys.

> There's probably more I'm forgetting. Throw
> some names at me, and I'll have an opinion.

Cameron Dunlap has some pretty good stuff. You can check him out at camerondirect.com. I'd give you an affiliate link but I don't have my stuff together on it so just go over there. I'm in his "Inner Circle." $39.00 a month. I think it's worth it most of the time. And the calls are mostly *not* about people trying to hawk their stuff to the people on the call.

According to Cameron Dunlap, Jeff Kaller
is *the man* when it comes to pre-foreclosures, short sales, etc. I think his course is a bit pricey but it's supposed to be good. He was on a recent Dunlap conference call. I thought he gave good info.

Chuck Smith. chucksmith.org or chuchsmithrealestateseminars

I saw Chuck Smith at the LeGrand workshop last June. I'd like to hear your opinion on him before I give mine.

Robyn Thompson. I believe her site is robynthompson.com. Robyn is another LeGrand student who has done well. She focuses on rehabs. I think her material is reasonably priced but I haven't seen it so I don't know if it's any good or not.

Alex Gurevich. getrichlazy.com. I get his e-zine but I haven't seen any of his courses. I've listened to some of his audio material. It bored me to tears. I don't know if the material is any good or not. He spoke in such a monotone, I turned the thing off and deleted it.

Ted Thomas. Yup. Ted Thomas. Ted was actually the guy that got me into real estate. I was of course aware of him because of his info products from the info marketing side. I have some of that stuff. About 2 years ago, I bought Ted's tax lien/tax deed stuff. I thought it was good. However, I found it annoying that his outfit to *this day* refuses to send the hardcopy newsletters that I was supposed to get with my purchase. I got two issues and then they stopped. And I have been round and round with them about it. I finally gave up. But Ted doesn't seem to have a problem with sending the latest marketing piece. (Which of course goes into the swipe file.)
I don't know if Ted sells the courses directly. I think you can still get it from Phil Huff at cash4notes.com.

Well, that's probably enough for now. (g)

> I have an opinion on everything.

(g)

P.S. Check your e-mail in the next day or so for further discussion about some of this. I want to ask you some specific questions and run something by you.

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

Re: What a shame...all this talk about bashing!
 

> Robin,

> I think I speak for all of us when I say
> that we wish the man a speedy recovery-- on
> a personal level.

> But we like to argue and discuss and analyze
> and discuss some more... that's why we
> participate in these forums. We're not
> bashing each other... we're all friends (as
> far as I'm concerned).

> Just exchanging opinions. :)

Well said. I agree 110%!!

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

Re: But Rick...
 

Adam -

> But Rick...
> Waaaaaaaaaaaa
> That's no fun!!!!

> :)

LOL. I know. We were forged in the same crucible with Rodman and Ross and all the rest in the "old days" on Bill Myers' old board.

But that's what makes it so nice discussing things here. You can have a difference of opinion, respect the other guy, and end it like I did without name calling or any of the flame nonsense I see in too many other places.

Referring back to Bill's board, I think the flame wars and the spam are what killed it when other parties bought him out.

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

Re: Not to be a post hog... one thing I forgot...
 

Adam -

> One thing I fogot to mention...

> It seems like almost all of the guys who
> have been successful doing RE full time
> (creatively) don't stick with one specific
> model, but have a variety of ways to buy and
> finance and profit from a house.

> Sub.2, Wrap, Short Sale, L/O... so that they
> can adapt to whereever the seller or buyer
> needs.

*Exactly*. LeGrand calls it being a "transaction engineer." I agree with him and you on this point. However, one thing that bites many newbies (it bit me as well) is that there is *so much* information it can be quite overwhelming. LeGrand says pick one area and start. Fine. I couldn't decide which area to start with. I now don't think it matters which one you pick. You just have to pick one.

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

Re: There are valuable ideas in Robert Allen's works - but do this as well
 

Dien -

> Nevertheless, I think there are valuable
> ideas in his books - but of course, always
> read widely to get a more complete view of
> ANY topic.

I think that sums it up quite well. Keep what works for you and throw out the rest. I also have "Creating Wealth" BTW. I don't happen to like that one as much as the others. I found it when Gordon and I stumbled on a used book sale at the Cuyahoga Falls Library. I think I paid $1.00 or something like that.

Since you focus more on direct response marketing, you might like his "Multiple Streams" books better. I recommend them both. And I already told you how much I like "One Minute Millionaire." There is less "hard" marketing info in there but plenty of info to help you cut thru some of the areas that you might be stumbling on.

> And it goes without saying, don't do
> anything illegal (or which you feel is
> unethical). Books can't always cover this,
> because what is legal in one place, is
> illegal somewhere else - so you have to do
> this homework yourself.

Absolutely.

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

Man!! What did I start?! (DNO) (DNO)
 

Re: What a shame...all this talk about bashing!
 

My apologies, I am the new kid on the block and I suppose not very familiar with how all of you network amongst one another.

Just seeing the thread go in a totally different direction than about Robert's well-being threw me for a loop.

My apologies, and I hope you won't mind my sticking around this board.

I've really enjoyed reading many of the posts here and perhaps I was a little to sensitive about the matter.

Again, my apologies.

Robin R

Re: What a shame...all this talk about bashing!
 

Robin -

> My apologies, I am the new kid on the block
> and I suppose not very familiar with how all
> of you network amongst one another.

No problem. And welcome.

> My apologies, and I hope you won't mind my
> sticking around this board.

We hope you *do* stick around. There is much learning, sharing, and discussing on this board.

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

Well, I'm not a new kid . . .
 

The thread was about the man's well-being. It might have been a more appropriate act to bring up what is perceived to be his shortcomings in another, different thread, started for that purpose.

Citing Robert Reed (John? Hezekiah? Whatever! his first name is) was insensitive, IMHO. I only read the thread because Rick was in it.

BTW, I've visited Reed's site, read the material there, and have come to my own conclusions. They can be summarized thusly: I subscribe to the Allen newsletter, read the material, and generally respect the man and wish him well.

I have visited Reed's site, and had already concluded well before that visit that the person whose promotion of himself hinges on how badly someone else does things isn't worth my listening to.

I'm not sure if I posted it here, but on one of these boards I related a story about my experiences with MCI, who mentioned AT&T on virtually every piece of literature they sent to me. I finally wrote to them and told them that if AT&T was a serious enough rival that they would "promote" them - even spuriously - on even the bills they sent to me, then maybe I ought to give my business to them.

I promptly left MCI and went to the folks they'd convinced me to use.

Marye