Find Out About The Free Info. That Was Banned On Another Marketing Board -- (Post Approved by Dien)
 

I recently found out about an awesome free resource that will be available within the next day or so. The resource is being put together by a gentleman by the name of Chip Tarver. Mr. Tarver attended the Joel Christopher seminar earlier this month. Mr. Tarver took copious notes, wrote down ideas, etc. He is offering to make that information available to anyone who simply asks. All you have to do is send an e-mail to . You should get an e-mail welcome and the course will begin in the next day or so.

Is Mr. Tarver violating any copyrights by doing this? Well, since these are *his* notes and *his* ideas, I don't see how he could be violating any copyrights.

What's in it for Chip Tarver? Like I said, this is free information. He has said that at some point down the road he may send some offers to the list. And maybe you'll be interested enough in what he had to say to buy something from him. That's it. He truly wants to make this information available to the community.

At some point in the future Mr. Tarver and I may also co-host a mastermind discussion board.

Again, that e-mail address is

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

I usually delete posts like this too
 

> What's in it for Chip Tarver? Like I said,
> this is free information. He has said that
> at some point down the road he may send some
> offers to the list. And maybe you'll be
> interested enough in what he had to say to
> buy something from him. That's it.

Would you like to know how I feel about this? Email me and I'll tell you. Of course I will add your name to my list and send you future offers.

What happened to using a website to inform, educate and entice visitors to join your mailing list?

I've had similar posts on my board, but they just get deleted because by my definition of blatant advertising this type of advertising doesn't belong on discussion boards and is in a category lower then posting a blatant ad.

Forums are for discussion and sharing information, not gathering subscribers FOR the information.

No offence to you Rick. I think you're a great guy. I find this kind of marketing tactic objectionable. There isn't a nice way to put it. It stinks.

Best Regards,
Steve MacLellan


homebusiness-websites.com

Re: I usually delete posts like this too
 

Steve -

> Would you like to know how I feel about
> this? Email me and I'll tell you. Of course
> I will add your name to my list and send you
> future offers.

Why are some people so skeptical about this? (You're not the only one, Steve.) The guy is offering *free* information. I've gotten the first installment. There isn't even a link to a website.

> What happened to using a website to inform,
> educate and entice visitors to join your
> mailing list?

How is this any different than me leaving a link to a website where you sign up for the autoresponder?

> I've had similar posts on my board, but they
> just get deleted because by my definition of
> blatant advertising this type of advertising
> doesn't belong on discussion boards and is
> in a category lower then posting a blatant
> ad.

Steve, how does this classify as advertising?

1. The man isn't selling anything.

2. I checked with Dien before I posted it.

3. He's offering *free*, no obligation
information.

4. If people don't want it, they can simply ignore it. But I gotta tell you that *hundreds* of people have already signed up.

> Forums are for discussion and sharing
> information, not gathering subscribers FOR
> the information.

And I still don't see how this is any different than me posting a message telling you about this new free web site or discussion board with a link at the end. (After getting approval from Dien like I did here.)

> No offence to you Rick. I think you're a
> great guy. I find this kind of marketing
> tactic objectionable. There isn't a nice way
> to put it. It stinks.

Thanks. I think you're a great guy too. I just think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I still can't see what's objectionable about it. It's not a marketing tactic. The man is making free information available. That's it. The only reason he chose to do it this way is because so many people signed up to receive the information.

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

Brief explanation...
 

Hi Steve,

I just want to say I value your general comments - you've got the guts to stand up and speak your mind, and I respect that. (I respect your views in general, by the way.)

I thought this was okay to post partly because Rick asked me about it beforehand, and he said it was useful stuff, and I trust him. (I've known Rick for a while - and he's one of the few online marketers who I've met in person.) That's basically it.

Anyhow, I hope that explains it....

- Dien Rice

Re: I usually delete posts like this too
 

> 4. If people don't want it, they can simply
> ignore it. But I gotta tell you that
> *hundreds* of people have already signed up.

Really? It seems you have believed the hype. I just checked with someone at Get Response the autoresponder he uses and they told me he doesn't have any more than 50 on his list. If he has hundreds then they must be hidden. I think he wants hundreds of people on his list and he's going to build it on the traffic of discussion boards like this one who work hard to attract people only to give him an easy way to build his list. Maybe if you did your homework Rick you'd know the difference between hype and reality. Nothing in life is free and anyone who tells you that they are doing this for some altruistic reason is lying. Steve is 100 percent right in this situation.

Re: I usually delete posts like this too
 

Well..... Most selfish people who are always looking out for number #1 cannot see how someone could give something away that's worth anything. Its called "greed" blinders. I know lots of stuff thats free. Is it worth anything? Some stuff is and others is not. I give away Bibles on my website for FREE. Salvation thru Jesus Christ is FREE (its paid for by His blood). I guess just some FREE stuff is better than others.

God BLess...... Ron

Too Many Chiefs, Not Enough Indians...
 

This board is obviously owned by someone... I think it's Dien?

I'm sure he's more than capable of moderating it himself without the rest of us engaging in "participatory discussion forum moderation."

Re: I usually delete posts like this too
 

Claude -

> Really? It seems you have believed the hype.

This wasn't about hype. This was about someone offering free information. Take it or leave it.
Period.

> I just checked with someone at Get Response
> the autoresponder he uses and they told me
> he doesn't have any more than 50 on his
> list.

Now why would anyone at GetResponse tell you or anyone else (besides the list owner) how many subscribers were on the list? Maybe this information is publicly available. I don't know that I've ever spent time trying to find out how many people were on someone's list. That seems like a waste of time to me.

>If he has hundreds then they must be
> hidden. I think he wants hundreds of people
> on his list and he's going to build it on
> the traffic of discussion boards like this
> one who work hard to attract people only to
> give him an easy way to build his list.

Again, how is this any different than me posting a link to a web site?

> Maybe if you did your homework Rick you'd
> know the difference between hype and
> reality.

Excuse me. You don't know me and I don't know you.
You don't know whether I know the difference between hype and reality or not nor do I know that about you for that matter. As many of the posters on this board can attest, I have been at this "game" of marketing for a number of years, some even before *there was* a commercial Internet. I have built a solid reputation by giving solid information in exchange for the dollars invested. Neither my reputation nor my information is built on hype. So please don't go casting stones in ponds with which you are not familiar.

>Nothing in life is free and anyone
> who tells you that they are doing this for
> some altruistic reason is lying.

Are we really so pessimistic that we can't take someone at their word until they prove us wrong? And BTW. I'm fully aware that you have to work for what you get.

>Steve is 100 percent right in this situation.

And on that point we disagree.

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

Re: Brief explanation...
 

Dien -

> I thought this was okay to post partly
> because Rick asked me about it beforehand,
> and he said it was useful stuff, and I trust
> him. (I've known Rick for a while - and he's
> one of the few online marketers who I've met
> in person.) That's basically it.

Thanks for saying that. And perhaps I should clarify a bit myself. Chip didn't ask me to make that post. I did that myself (after checking with Dien as he said) because I thought Sowpub visitors would appreciate this excellent information.

What I *didn't* say (and perhaps should have) was that much of this information will be comprised not only of Chip's notes from Joel Christopher's conference but of Chip's personal interviews with many of the speakers at the workshop. Names like Frank Garon, Joel Christopher, and so on. I can't remember who all he said he spoke with one-on-one. Plus he has considerable time invested in teleseminars and plenty of e-mails. It sounds to me like it will be excellent information.

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

Intellectual Property Rights?
 

> The resource is being put together by a
> gentleman by the name of Chip Tarver.
> Mr. Tarver attended the Joel Christopher
> seminar earlier this month. Mr. Tarver took
> copious notes, wrote down ideas, etc. He is
> offering to make that information available...

> Is Mr. Tarver violating any copyrights by
> doing this? Well, since these are *his*
> notes and *his* ideas, I don't see how he
> could be violating any copyrights.

Rick,

You have introduced an interesting point
for discussion...does Mr. Tarver have the
right to "divulge" the secrets that were
delivered at the workshop?

If there was no "confidentiality" contract
signed by participants, then he probably
is free to do what he wants.

Which brings up the point that several of the
promotions I have seen recently are including
confidentiality phrases in their marketing.

If you buy my tape, you must promise not to
tell anyone else my secrets...

If you come to this by-invitation-only seminar,
you must promise not to share the information
with anyone...

So if you learn the facts from the tape or seminar,
and assimilate the information into your very being,
what's to keep it from permeating any future
info product your creative mind might produce?

And if it does, have you violated the confidentiality
promise/requirement? Could you be held liable?

It seems intellectual property rights are getting
very interesting...

JDB




Teaching old dogs new tricks...that make money online!

'Great Question, JDB..... ;-)
 

Hi, JDB -

Those are great points and questions, brilliant and relevant in fact, so please allow me to personally answer them for you.

There are really several pertinent issues here, as you so skillfully noted. I will try to give *very brief* answers out of respect for space and time here on the board, but still address your valid concerns. Fair enough?

1. Plagiarism - To Steal or Not to Steal?

This is obviously a really important issue to the workshop or seminar speakers and the host.

Typically, a seminar or workshop attendee is asked (ordered) not to use any type of recording device, neither audio nor video, during any part of the formal workshop sessions. But, afterwards or during breaks, it is fine to do so. This is how a lot of new or complementary products are created "live."

In addition, the *preprinted* workshop or seminar notes are typically protected by copyright.

Obviously, the recording device ban does not apply to pencils, pens, and paper. Some folks even used their laptops instead. No problem.

Two relevant reasons for this situation are that this scenario protects the intellectual rights of the host and speakers, and it attempts to prevent pirated, *unauthorized* use of the materials.

That said, any unethical person can simply buy the tapes, copy them, and sell pirate versions if they are determined to do so. Tragically, this happens every day on the Net. Just ask any of the so-called gurus - their stuff is stolen and knocked off as soon as it is released - a major problem.

As Marlon Sanders told me at dinner, "Hey, Chip - get real. As soon as you release something new, someone will steal it and sell it for half price - that's just a fact of doing business on the Web." 'Sad - but true, my friend.

2. The Information - Whose Is It?

This is a bit more complicated. First, the speakers at the workshops are being paid to share *their* (copyrighted) information. Second, the attendees are usually investing a fairly large sum of money to hear it (buying the rights to use the information.) And third, if the attendees could not *use* that information - why would they attend? There would be no seminars or workshops.

3. Use Of The Information - Now What?

Let's use me as an example so as not to be too abstract. First, I invested something around $3000-$3500 to attend. I need a return on my investment - right?

Second, the speakers were well paid to tell me good, usable info. If they didn't do that, it would just be a pitch-fest meeting, and the attendees would not be happy.

Third, the dissemination of the information is a form of viral marketing for the host and the speakers, which results in more speaker information (products) being sold, more seminar or workshop seats being purchased, and the client lists of both of the above being propagated in the future. Everybody wins.

Again, as Marlon told me Saturday night at dinner, "Look - the people at seminars are either your current competition or your future competition - that's just a fact of life. Deal with it." Ya gotta love Marlon. He' real.

Finally, in my case, I *do not* claim the information as my own, so I am paraphrasing - not plagiarizing. And just as important - at the very top of every lesson I reveal from whom the following information came - so I *do not* claim it as my own. No intellectual property theft.

You can make the analogy that I am a bit like a newspaper reporter. I pay attention, I am persistent, I get my questions answered, and then report back to my "readers."

Second, since I *do not* charge any money for my lessons, I am not profiting. No money. No theft.

Third, if my readers enjoy the lessons and want to go further in any particular area in their quest to become a "Master" at that particular subject, I refer them to the Master - the speaker from the workshop from whom the information came. No redirection of revenue, income, good will, or intellectual property rights occurs.

Lastly, I include "value added" - my two cents worth based on 25 years in marketing and coaching, so the end product is current, very relevant, 100% true, hopefully helpful, and is "Branded" by me in this format.

Perhaps think of it this way: There are scores of books in your bookstore that teach you how to use Microsoft products. Most are not put out by MS - but they teach you how to use the product - right? That's what I do, too.

And, once again, I never charge anyone a cent to be in NoCost Coaching. You have to *buy* that MS product book in your local bookstore - right?

Therefore, JDB, I (specifically and on purpose) do not meet *any* of the necessary prerequisites for a violation of *any* of the issues you raised and I just explained in this post. On purpose.

To do otherwise would make me a fraud.

I hope this better explains the honest issues and concerns that everyone rightfully has as it pertains to these types of situations. Thank you again for your great points and questions.

God Bless you,

Respectfully,

Chip Tarver
<
Your NoCost Coach
Never a Fee - Ever.

To sign up, send a blank email to

[email protected]

> Rick,

> You have introduced an interesting point
> for discussion...does Mr. Tarver have the
> right to "divulge" the secrets
> that were
> delivered at the workshop?

> If there was no "confidentiality"
> contract
> signed by participants, then he probably
> is free to do what he wants.

> Which brings up the point that several of
> the
> promotions I have seen recently are
> including
> confidentiality phrases in their marketing.

> If you buy my tape, you must promise not to
> tell anyone else my secrets...

> If you come to this by-invitation-only
> seminar,
> you must promise not to share the
> information
> with anyone...

> So if you learn the facts from the tape or
> seminar,
> and assimilate the information into your
> very being,
> what's to keep it from permeating any future
> info product your creative mind might
> produce?

> And if it does, have you violated the
> confidentiality
> promise/requirement? Could you be held
> liable?

> It seems intellectual property rights are
> getting
> very interesting...

> JDB

Re: 'Great Question, JDB..... ;-)
 

Hi Chip -

I'm no expert in this area, but I think we both know that no one can copyright an idea ... or even a book title for that matter.

Good ideas that sell will always bring competition. That's why positioning and branding are so important. As Ries and Trout claim in their classic book Positioning, being first to the market with a new idea is best way to minimize the competition.

A question for you. How do people review books (such as Executive Summaries) and condense them down to 30 minutes of reading that hit the main and most important points ... and avoid getting into trouble. Do you need the publisher's or author's permission to do this?

Thank you Chip. I signed up for your "class notes" and I get the feeling I am going to learn a lot.

Robert Campbell




Real Estate Timing for Maximum Profits: A Proven System.

'Good Points, Robert :-)
 

> Hi Chip -

> I'm no expert in this area, but I think we
> both know that no one can copyright an idea
> ... or even a book title for that matter.

Hi back at ya, Robert -

Yes - I agree. That is why everyone has to understand the marketplace in which they choose to "play." It's rough out here.

> Good ideas that sell will always bring
> competition. That's why positioning and
> branding are so important. As Ries and Trout
> claim in their classic book Positioning,
> being first to the market with a new idea is
> best way to minimize the competition.

What an awesome and relevant book. I recommend it to everyone. A mandatory read. In our first NoCost Coaching series of lessons from Frank Garon we cover, among other things, "Bonding and Branding Yourself."

> A question for you. How do people review
> books (such as Executive Summaries) and
> condense them down to 30 minutes of reading
> that hit the main and most important points
> ... and avoid getting into trouble. Do you
> need the publisher's or author's permission
> to do this?

Robert, I am not an expert in this field. If I were to hazard a guess for the sake of discussion, I would expect two possibile scenarios:

(1) That a Royalties Contract is set up for all the legitimate and *authorized* versions - while the *unauthorized* versions are "outlaws."

(2) In addition, for PR reasons, lots of authors permit the use of excerpts from their works in exchange for the viral marketing these excerpts bring in and the sales they create.

> Thank you Chip. I signed up for your
> "class notes" and I get the
> feeling I am going to learn a lot.

It's wonderful to have you along on the journey with us, Robert. You are welcome here. Always.

> Robert Campbell

Thank you for your question, Robert.

To Your Success.....Always.....

Respectfully,

Chip Tarver
<
Your NoCost Coach
Never a Fee - Ever

to sign up, please send a blank email to

[email protected]

Re: Intellectual Property Rights?
 

JDB -

> You have introduced an interesting point
> for discussion...does Mr. Tarver have the
> right to "divulge" the secrets
> that were delivered at the workshop?

I see that Chip himself has answered better than I could have.

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"