What does business "success" MEAN to women and men?
 

Again, on the web page about this study of women entrepreneurs, http://www.scu.edu/entrepreneur/Text/WOMEN_final_report.html , I read that

Women entrepreneurs take more *personal* risks than male entrepreneurs do, while

Male entrepreneurs take more *financial* risks than female entrepreneurs do....

This might be related to how you define "success".... For example, there was the following quote (from the web page above)....

Men seem to keep score by how much -- the dollars that are involved in the situation, whether it is the size of a deal or the size of the stock option or whatever might be the context of the situation. It is almost an irrelevant standard for many women that I know, which is not to say you are oblivious to money, certainly. But once the dollars are taken care of, once the basics are under control, what emerges as the most important thing out of the situation is the relationship context. Either creating or preserving or strengthening the relationship-- that’s what makes it a successful deal.

Polly Moore

This also seems to be a key difference in the way men and women approach business....

There are many ways to "measure" the success of a business, and I think it relates to your goals. Is your goal money? Is it lifestyle? Is it freedom from a boss? Is it to do something you enjoy? All these different goals give very different definitions of "success"....

Does anyone have any comments on this? I find it very interesting, but this is really the first time I've ever tried to look into this issue as it relates to gender....

In the past, I just assumed that men and women in business had more-or-less the same approaches and the same goals.... But gosh, looks like I wasn't quite correct....

What do you think of this?

Dien

The Stoneage Has All The Answers
 

Men seem to keep score by how much -- the dollars that are involved in the situation, whether it is the size of a deal or the size of the stock option or whatever might be the context of the situation. It is almost an irrelevant standard for many women that I know, which is not to say you are oblivious to money, certainly. But once the dollars are taken care of, once the basics are under control, what emerges as the most important thing out of the situation is the relationship context. Either creating or preserving or strengthening the relationship-- that’s what makes it a successful deal.

Polly Moore


In the stoneage, men hunted. To attract a mate (female) they had to have proof of their ability to provide - food, shelter, etc.

In modern times this has turned into money. Money is the proof of a male's ability to provide for a mate.

In the stoneage, women wanted to be sure their mate could provide for them and the resultant offspring. Hence the quote "once the money is taken care of and the basics are under control" (meaning, once I, the female, am secure).

Both of these elements worked together in harmony to make sure only skilled hunters (strong, intelligent, etc.) would have offspring and pass their skills on and keep the species going strong.

Michael Ross.

Re: The Stoneage Has All The Answers
 

Hi Michael,

> In the stoneage, men hunted. To attract a
> mate (female) they had to have proof of
> their ability to provide - food, shelter,
> etc.

> In modern times this has turned into money.
> Money is the proof of a male's ability to
> provide for a mate.

I think I agree with you... As you say, men and women generally look for different things in a potential mate (husband or wife).... And I think what you say is also probably reflected in that too.... Whether we like it or not, I think it's probably built into our biology....

From other reading I've done, it seems that in general, men have (on average) better ability to visualize things spatially, while on the other hand women (on average) have a better language skills.... (Though there are always exceptions....)

I find these things very interesting....

This reminds me of a Seinfeld routine! If you've watched Seinfeld, you probably remember this.... :)

Men flip around the television more than women, I think. Men get that remote control in their hands, they don't even know what the hell they're watching. You know, we just keep going, "Rerun, don't wanna watch it.. "

"What are you watching?"

"I don't care, I gotta keep going."

"Who was that?"

"I don't know what it was - doesn't matter, it's not your fault. It doesn't matter, I gotta keep going."

Women don't do this. See now, women will stop and go, "Well, let me see what the show is before I change the channel."

You see? Men just fly. Because women, you see, women nest and men hunt. That's why we watch TV differently.

(From here....)

Cheers :)

Dien

The Remote
 

Men look, assess and move on.

The Remote is the spear or rock or club (the weapon).

The channel is the animal.

Men don't channel surf... they kill the channels with their weapon.

This reminds me of a very funny scene in, I believe, Toy Story Two. The Pig has his hoof on the remote and is going at a million miles an hour through the channels. You've got to see it to appreciate the hillarity (is that a word?) of it.

Michael Ross.

P.S. ZZ TOP sang about women loving Sharp Dressed Men. Sharp Dressed Men imply success and that means an ability to provide.

Generally speaking, men are physically attracted to women with figures and NOT sticks. A woman with a figure implies hips to bear offspring and breasts to feed that offspring. (Think Monroe!!!)

We aren't as advanced beyond animals as we like to think we are.

Freud would probably attribute it to...
 

the male preoccupation with size.... ahem! ;-)

Yep!

Paul (why do I do this to myself?) Short ;-)

Re: The Remote
 

Hi Michael

> We aren't as advanced beyond animals as we
> like to think we are.

I agree with you!

In fact, just the other day while I was clubbing that animal for dinner, a thought crossed my mind... ;-)

Ok, all kidding aside, as soon as men realize that "equality" doesn't really mean "submission" or "weakness", powerful aliances will be created in all aspects of their life.

The problem we have been having in society in general all seem to have one common thread: one group of people begins to think they are better or more powerful than the other. Hostile takeovers, war, abuse, etc. are the results.

Everything is a power trip. It always has been. Meanwhile, statistical analysis is now telling us that we have been ignoring 51% of the population far too long. Let's open our eyes shall we?

Hmm, I think I'll find a woman and drag her back to my cave...

Paul (I'm REALLY in deep now) Short

The Remote 3000
 

About 3 months ago I was riding my stead hunting for satisfaction, which sounds very adult in content but I’m actually referring to being a couch potato and channel surfing, when I noticed that the remote control I had in my hand was basically a very uncomfortable, badly designed shape for anything that you’d want to hold for any length of time.

I don’t know about you, but if the TV remote is MIA, then it’s usually in my hand or very close by.

Having more than a passing interest in weapons, especially firearms, I got to thinking that the perfect shape for a remote control would be something similar to a handgun.

So I drew up plans for…..The Remote 3000….the personal weapon of choice for any man hunting for satisfaction, albeit on the couch. The original plans for my new invention had it looking too much like a handgun, which I knew might attract attention for sales, but ultimately may be it’s undoing, so the final design had the R3000 looking more like a hand control for a slot car racing set.

Where the trigger was there were two buttons, one for volume, the other for channels. The on/off was where the hammer on a handgun lives and of course the batteries went in the butt just like a magazine for a handgun.

I made four dummies made up and decided to do a little market testing. So I through a party. Lots of couples, singles and guys in general and guess what…..every man at my little gathering absolutely loved my Remote 3000.

It was a hit, comfortable to hold, easy to use, no annoying video functions, we even had mock gun fights as the night wore on and the drink flowed freely and the next day three of the four had disappeared.

In fact the entire evening’s conversation revolved around men’s love of the remotes in their lives and the women’s dread of their husbands love of the remotes in their lives.

Every man I invited said he’d buy one or would love one as a gift. As for the women, many said they were pleased to see it didn’t resemble a real gun, but thought it was very comfortable to hold. No more small rectangles to give you RSI.

I bet if it went into production it could sell literary millions, before clones arrived on the scene.

Of course there's no guarantees, but when you have something people want........

A few infomercials, a little world of mouth, a few give-aways and hey presto, a successful product.

Believe it or not, this little story has much to do with men and how we’ll never change. Change the packaging, call us something else, but we’ll always be huMAN.

Sure we can't ride around, hunting for food, but siting on the couch with a Remote3000 plugging away at the box is as close as most of us will ever get to conquest.

As the Terminator once said, when asked if mankind would continue on……."It’s in our nature to destroy ourselves"

If my Remote 3000 is such a great idea, why don’t I do it?…well like most marketers, I have a project book full of great ideas (or so they all seem) but there’s only so much time.

But don’t be surprised if you see a version of what I just shared with you, somewhere in the future…..just remember, you heard it hear first.

Richard Vaughan

This is probably why......
 

the last remote control we had became a missile against the wall. Can't stand remote controls. I now live in a household of women....well, most of them are less than four feet tall....and I insist upon changing the channels the old fashioned way.

Carefully adjusting my Million Mom March button and hat,

JULIE

Men and women.... more differences....
 

Hi Julie, :)

> This is probably why......
> the last remote control we had became a
> missile against the wall. Can't stand remote
> controls. I now live in a household of
> women....well, most of them are less than
> four feet tall....and I insist upon changing
> the channels the old fashioned way.

Heheh... I didn't know the remote could become a metaphor for men and women.... So accurately!

I admit.... I'm one of those who likes to "kill the channel with my weapon" (as Michael Ross put it!)....

I'm starting to wonder though if it might be nice to sometimes watch a program all the way through.... I think I remember what that used to be like!

Heheh :) Just kidding.... I'm not that bad.... :)

Here's some more interesting observations on men and women.... Rita Rudner is one of my favorite comedians -- she's hilarious! She seems to specialize in observations on men and women....

Here's a Rita Rudner observation.... :)

Little girls love to play with toys. Then when they reach the age of 11 or 12, they lose interest.

Men never grow out of their obsession with toys. As they get older, their toys simply become more expensive and silly and impractical.

Examples of men's toys: little miniature TV's. Car phones. Complicated juicers and blenders. Graphic equalizers. Small robots that serve c0cktails on command. Video games. Anything that blinks, beeps, and requires at least 6 "D" batteries to operate.

Ahhh... how true! Though this observation may be out of date.... now they include cell-phones (mobile phones), the more functions the better! And don't forget camcorders, digital cameras, and for some even VR goggles. :)

And this echoes what Elizabeth was saying.... :)

Women will sometimes admit making a mistake. The last man who admitted he was wrong was General George Custer.

There's more of Rita Rudner's great observations here at and her official web site is at www.ritarudner.com .....

Women and men are different, but I think that helps to keep life interesting! :)

I love this topic... I'm definitely going to be doing more research on men and women's different approaches to business....

Cheers,

Dien

Freud....
 

> Freud would probably attribute it to..
> the male preoccupation with size.... ahem!
> ;-)

Heheh... :)

Somehow, I really think Freud's theories tell us more about his *own* preoccupations than about anybody else's! :)

Dien

How the Periodic Chart of the Elements relates... and a picture of Freud you've NEVER seen!
 

> Believe it or not, this little story has
> much to do with men and how we’ll never
> change. Change the packaging, call us
> something else, but we’ll always be huMAN.

This may have been done by a comedian before however I'd never heard it, but if hadn't been it's extremely ripe for the pickin :-)

All us men have heard over the years about childbirth, it's pain/reward, and that WE could never bear the pain... and I think this is exactly why.

In all actuality, ~every women in the world is actually an IRON man!~

Dien, you might need to back me up here...

If my memory serves correct the "abbreviaion" (sorry, don't remember the actual name for the 2 letter symbols on the chart) for iron is FE (again, I know, big F little E, but play along for a sec), and that means that a *FE*MALE is actually an IRON MALE!!!

Correct?

This whole man/women talk really strikes at the core of the whole INITIAL concept for HerComputer.com, which was "Women teaching Women -- about computers, technology and the Internet!"

With all my heart and sole I still VERY FIRMLY BELIEVE that the concept/website can work on a grand scale, but thats not germane to this discussion.....

As to Freud: if you click on the below link you'll see an actual "living and breathing" picture of Freud today; well really about 18 months ago ;-)

He is still alive and well and keeps us company every single day, still today.

Paul

PS - After you click to see Freud if you click on the link for "HerComputer Made EZ-ine" and look at the third PERSONAL ENDORSEMENT from the top, you'll see a *frequent contributor* HERE's "vote of confidence" in what we were :-( trying to do.


Freud -- in all his glory :-)

Btw, Michael Ross this is directed to you...
 

Michael,

A while back when we had posted in the same thread on ABlakes board, when I said that I HAD given up on the HerComputer concept you had said something to the effect of "just because you still sign your messages 'Paul from HerComputer' illustrates that you HAVEN'T given up."

Well, I had then and i still have now!

Reading back on my post it could be misconstrued that I'm still trying to resurrect HerComputer, or still in support of it; and in a very small way there is an ounce of validity there, but overall it's completely not true.

What I mean: as any true blue entreprenuer can attest to, there's a "piece" of you in almost every one of your projects. And in this case that certainly *is* true. I'd be lying through my teeth if I told you that my wife and I are not devestated, heartbroken and extrmely sad that we weren't able to ever actually actualize the concept BUT WE'RE DONE. That doesn't mean for a moment that I'm not in support of it and still think highhly of it, but we're given up!

Michael this is only meant as a "pre-emptive strike" to tell you that we have given up, and the only reason I sound the slightest bit "positive" in my last post is bc there's still a "piece" of me in HerComputer. And I laughed when I just typed that, NO sexual innuendo was meant by that last statement :-)

PaulAgain

> This may have been done by a comedian before
> however I'd never heard it, but if hadn't
> been it's extremely ripe for the pickin :-)

> All us men have heard over the years about
> childbirth, it's pain/reward, and that WE
> could never bear the pain... and I think
> this is exactly why.

> In all actuality, ~every women in the world
> is actually an IRON man!~

> Dien, you might need to back me up here...

> If my memory serves correct the
> "abbreviaion" (sorry, don't
> remember the actual name for the 2 letter
> symbols on the chart) for iron is FE (again,
> I know, big F little E, but play along for a
> sec), and that means that a *FE*MALE is
> actually an IRON MALE!!!

> Correct?

> This whole man/women talk really strikes at
> the core of the whole INITIAL concept for
> HerComputer.com, which was "Women
> teaching Women -- about computers,
> technology and the Internet!"

> With all my heart and sole I still VERY
> FIRMLY BELIEVE that the concept/website can
> work on a grand scale, but thats not germane
> to this discussion.....

> As to Freud: if you click on the below link
> you'll see an actual "living and
> breathing" picture of Freud today; well
> really about 18 months ago ;-)

> He is still alive and well and keeps us
> company every single day, still today.

> Paul

> PS - After you click to see Freud if you
> click on the link for "HerComputer Made
> EZ-ine" and look at the third PERSONAL
> ENDORSEMENT from the top, you'll see a
> *frequent contributor* HERE's "vote of
> confidence" in what we were :-( trying
> to do.

Must be a guy thing
 

Julie,

I can't believe that you work your TV manually! That really is incredible. Every time you want to change channel, mute the sound or make it go up and down, you actually get up out of your chair and go across the room, do the function you want and then go and site down again.

Why would you throw your remote against the wall? Did it let you down in some way?

I suppose you’d never be fat and lazy with all that remote exercise you get. Of course being a women, you probably never get bored with ads and boring shows on the goggle box.

Hold on……….maybe it’s me, maybe I’m the only one who likes to watch 5 shows at once, flip when the ads are on and take the remote to the toilet during the breaks.

Is it just me???….Nah, it’s a guy thing.

Respectfully and Remotely:0)

Richard.

I'm a legend in my own mind.
 

> This may have been done by a comedian before
> however I'd never heard it, but if hadn't
> been it's extremely ripe for the pickin :-)

Thanks PAUL for the vote of confidence. I've always considered myself to be comically talented. I made the whole thing up all by myself, with no help from no women.

Dang blasted women, they're about as useful as remote controls;>)

Richard

Re: Must be a guy thing
 

Hi Richard!

We meet again....

> Why would you throw your remote against the
> wall? Did it let you down in some way?

****My first thought regarding this question reminded me of marraige. My remote did not "let me down" but rather the behavior it caused from those I loved.....THAT let me down! :-) So one day it sailed from my hand, across the room and into the wall and promptly broke into multiple pieces. Now, whenever ANY new piece of electronic gear enters the house with a remote, they get hidden....the remote, that is.

> I suppose you’d never be fat and lazy with
> all that remote exercise you get. Of course
> being a women, you probably never get bored
> with ads and boring shows on the goggle box.

***Not at all, my dear Richard, I never only watch TV. I am usually multi-tasking. Although when I was sick recently, I did watch a couple complete episodes of Rosie O'Donnell and Oprah. And this weekend I watched a little bit of College Football, just doing nothing else. Otherwise I am reading, writing a note, combing my daughter's hair, doing handiwork, something besides watching TV. Plus I watch so little of it anyway, the remote becomes a non issue.

Mostly it drives me nuts when my family members would have no CLUE what was on, but just lie there on the couch for hours on end, flipping channels to find yet another TV movie to waste a couple hours on. Who has that kind of time to invest?

My 19 year old daughter did this summer....GRRRRRRR...and about that marriage evaporting? Nuff said.

> Is it just me???….Nah, it’s a guy thing.

****Yeah, for the most part I think you are absolutely right!

JULIE

No remote, no TV....
 

Hi Julie.... :)

> I never only
> watch TV. I am usually multi-tasking.
> Although when I was sick recently, I did
> watch a couple complete episodes of Rosie
> O'Donnell and Oprah. And this weekend I
> watched a little bit of College Football,
> just doing nothing else. Otherwise I am
> reading, writing a note, combing my
> daughter's hair, doing handiwork, something
> besides watching TV. Plus I watch so little
> of it anyway, the remote becomes a non
> issue.

Julie, actually, I kind of know what you mean (I think)....

I don't really need the remote control.... There's often not much good on anyway.... :)

I do have some friends who purposely don't have a TV. They just don't want a TV in their lives.... It is mostly a big waste of time....

There was a period of around 6 months when I purposefully lived without a TV. I wanted to see what it was like.... It was okay, although I did feel detached from the world since I didn't really know what was going on with the country and the world -- though if I wanted to I could have listened to the news on the radio, or bought a newspaper....

In many ways, though, not having a TV was very peaceful....

But.... yeah, there are very few shows I watch on TV regularly.

I don't have cable TV right now, but I do travel to visit my parents regularly (they live in another city) and they do have cable. When I visit, I enjoy watching the Discovery channel, the National Geographic channel, and the Travel shows....

That's the main good thing about TV, I think, the occasional groovy documentaries.... :)

I figure at least you're learning something.... :)

> Mostly it drives me nuts when my family
> members would have no CLUE what was on, but
> just lie there on the couch for hours on
> end, flipping channels to find yet another
> TV movie to waste a couple hours on. Who has
> that kind of time to invest?

I agree with you Julie.... I can say I've been guilty of this, but I don't feel very satisfied afterwards..... Mostly this is with cable....

I sit there, flipping through the channels, hoping something is good on.... Before you know it half an hour is gone and I still haven't found anything I'm interested in....

That's when I get up and surf the web! :)

Dien Rice
Recovering Channel Flipper (keep the remote away!) :)

Re: No remote, no TV....
 

Dien --

I have no TV and haven't had one in some time. Okay I really have a TV but it stays in the garage stuffed in a back corner and covered with stuff so it's hard to access. We pulled it out after the tornado hit our town back in March to watch some of the news for instance.

You are correct about it being a huge time sink. That is our primary reason for not having it. I have some observations on how TV affects children and their play but thats another story altogether.

-- Dan Butler

> Hi Julie.... :)

> Julie, actually, I kind of know what you
> mean (I think)....

> I don't really need the remote control....
> There's often not much good on anyway.... :)

> I do have some friends who purposely don't
> have a TV. They just don't want a TV in
> their lives.... It is mostly a big waste of
> time....

> There was a period of around 6 months when I
> purposefully lived without a TV. I wanted to
> see what it was like.... It was okay,
> although I did feel detached from the world
> since I didn't really know what was going on
> with the country and the world -- though if
> I wanted to I could have listened to the
> news on the radio, or bought a newspaper....

> In many ways, though, not having a TV was
> very peaceful....

> But.... yeah, there are very few shows I
> watch on TV regularly.

> I don't have cable TV right now, but I do
> travel to visit my parents regularly (they
> live in another city) and they do have
> cable. When I visit, I enjoy watching the
> Discovery channel, the National Geographic
> channel, and the Travel shows....

> That's the main good thing about TV, I
> think, the occasional groovy
> documentaries.... :)

> I figure at least you're learning
> something.... :)

> I agree with you Julie.... I can say I've
> been guilty of this, but I don't feel very
> satisfied afterwards..... Mostly this is
> with cable....

> I sit there, flipping through the channels,
> hoping something is good on.... Before you
> know it half an hour is gone and I still
> haven't found anything I'm interested in....

> That's when I get up and surf the web! :)

> Dien Rice
> Recovering Channel Flipper (keep the remote
> away!) :)




http://www.TheNakedPC.com

The wisdom of no TV
 

Hi Dan,

Despite having a TV at the moment, I agree with you that there is a lot of wisdom in NOT having a TV.... TV can be like an addiction, I hate to admit....

There was this hip-hop/rap song many years ago.... "Television, the drug of the nation...."

I think you (and the others I know who purposefully don't have a TV) are in fact quite wise!

Thanks for your insights.... :)

Dien

Re: How I got rid of my TV...
 

Dien --

The way we got rid of the TV initially was -- it broke! The TV we had quit working so I threw it away. We were too busy to buy another one right away. After a few weeks we noticed we kind of liked not having one. It looked funny our TV stand with just an antennea and a VCR but no TV. Then someone gave us a large TV and we fell back in the habit. Later we decided to put it in the garage (right after the Branch Davidian seige ended - about an hour from where I lived at the time) and it's been there ever since.

-- Dan Butler

> Hi Dan,

> Despite having a TV at the moment, I agree
> with you that there is a lot of wisdom in
> NOT having a TV.... TV can be like an
> addiction, I hate to admit....

> There was this hip-hop/rap song many years
> ago.... "Television, the drug of the
> nation...."

> I think you (and the others I know who
> purposefully don't have a TV) are in fact
> quite wise!

> Thanks for your insights.... :)

> Dien




http://www.TheNakedPC.com