The Game & Lifestyle Epiphany
 

Sometime back, I read the book "The Game" by Neil Strauss. It was pretty good actually - quite entertaining.

The book is about: Pickup Artists (PUA). About how Neil Strauss - a geek who didn't look that good - became a master pickup artist and could pick up any beautiful girl.

Some of the tactics PUA use are very similar to direct marketing. For eg: just like AIDA (Attention - Interest Desire - Action), the PUAs also have a formula: FMAC (Find - Meet - Attract - Close).

Then there is another similar idea: of making the person qualify herself. For eg: PUAs will only approach a group. And won't pay attention to the hottest girl - unless she qualifies herself. And shows some interest.

PUAs use the contrarian approach. And follow the rule: do what no one else does. For eg: they will never praise a good looking person on her looks - because everyone does that. They will never approach a person who is alone - because everyone else approaches them first.

PUAs use a lot of NLP techniques of mirroring and choose the "right" words to close. Many of them learn entire scripts and use them word-to-word.

All PUAs work on improving 6 of their characteristics too:

1. Confidence. Many of them take improv classes. And will have goals like: approach a 1000 women in 1 month.

2. Smile.

3. Well groomed. You've got to dress smartly. And dress to stand out. They call it the peacock theory. Wear something flashy so that its easy for people to approach you and start conversations. (Reminds me of Glenn Osborne's chain ties.)

The author - Neil Strauss's before and after picture:
http://theseductionbible.com/images/...and-after1.jpg

4. Sense of humour.

5. Connecting with people. Not only women, but connecting with everyone.
http://www.attractionexplained.com/m...e=socialcircle

6. Being seen as social center of the room.

Marketers can learn quite a bit from them.

Anyways, the first half of the book is about how Neil Strauss became the best PUA out there. But he has an epiphany during his birthday.

His buddies throw a party for him on his birthday. And he doesn't have to work the room at all that night. He is the center of the room. And as a result, he gets a lot more girls hitting on him that night without any trying from his side.

The girl he ends up with asks him the next day if he is someone famous?

Neil Strauss has become a master PUA. He can charm any girl. But he has to approach the girl. He has to "engage" her. Except when its his birthday and people are wishing him every 2 minutes.

And then there is someone like Hugh Hefner. Old. Many people look much better than him and have more money than him too. But yet, girls are attracted to him. He has what - 4 or 5 girlfriends at one time?!

Hugh Hefner has created a "lifestyle" where he doesn't have to engage anyone.

The 2nd half of the book goes on to tell us how Neil Strauss started "Project Hollywood" to create a Hefner type lifestyle for himself. (And how it got dysfunctional because of a power struggle.)

Disclosure: I read the book without realizing the true depth and benefits of the lifestyle epiphany. It came back to me because of the recent posts made by Gordon, TW, Erik and Don.

Gordon teaches us about: getting your feet wet and start engaging people. Excellent advice. But maybe there is a better way - of creating a lifestyle and setting up social proofs so that people approach us and engage us rather than us going to them?

Comparison between Harvey Brody and Ben Suarez.

I don't know all the tricks Harvey uses to find products and opportunities. But it seems like he finds it via various means and then engages the person and makes the deal.

On the other hand, there is Ben Suarez. He also does a little bit of scouting. But he writes a book "7 Steps of Freedom" - the book positions himself as the authority. And gives instructions to people on how they can approach SCI to market their products.

Harvey has to go and scout the market and engage people. Ben has people approach him and engage him.

So: how do you become Hefners of your industries? Maybe we could discuss it here... what goes into creating a magnetic lifestyle?

Here's a slight "correction" Ankesh...but other than this...
 

Ankesh,

I love the thread, the idea...let's discuss it more. BUT, let me make a slight correction as to your perceptions...

after 54 years in the business, Harvey Brody has to beat off suitors with a stick...(staying with the Hugh Hefner thing here)...

They are lined up outside his "mansion" hoping to get into "bed" with him...he answers the door in his "pajamas"...Asks a few questions...then either invites them in or sends them packing.

Harvey does not have to "go out and scout the market"...he is like a Spielberg...who has ideas and scripts thrown at him while he's eating breakfast...

I think HE is the perfect example of the point you are making.

You are accurate about SCI and Ben Suarez, there is a whole pile of products in one room that people have sent in trying to get him to market.

NOW let me tell you the "inside" secret. The REASON both Ben and Harvey are like "Hugh" in your story, that is, they have people coming to them...is because of what they offer:...in a word:

DISTRIBUTION.

OK, I'll come back to this.

Even though it has been 20+ years, long before Ben ever wrote a word to establish himself as an expert, Harvey Brody was selling, for the time, expensive COURSES, and 99 dollar books. In fact, in one of Ben's earliest books, he does a "consult" with 4 wannabe Entrepreneurs, and one of them asks Ben why a certain "Harvey Brody" can get 100 bux for his book and Ben only charges 20.

And NO one (as Frank Kern points out) can escape the concept of "you get what you pay for", it is a difficult, if not impossible concept to overcome...the idea, if something costs MORE, it must be better. (AND a great marketing strategy too).

Here are a few of the people who attended Harvey Brody's seminars and/or classes or did business with him:

Gary Halbert, Ben Suarez, Jay Abraham, Dan Kennedy, Joe Karbo, Joe Sugarman, Howard Ruff, Bud Weckesser...and the list goes on and on.

My point is, that even though Ben "established" himself as an expert via his books...Mr. Brody WAS and IS an established expert that the "upper echelon" of today's marketers know about and have learned from.

He's just not that interested in doing any "self-promotion" because that comes with it's own price tag...and he's a very happy camper, and I think probably does less and makes more than most of these guys combined.

OK. I've probably overstated my case on that one.

But let's discuss your premise. I LOVE the idea of "them" coming to you.

I'll pick this up in a new post, OK.

Gordon Jay Alexander

A discussion of being the "center" of the room and have people come to you.
 

Ankesh has given us a great idea to work with and discuss.

The idea is (and correct me if I'm wrong Ankesh) is, instead of constantly "prospecting" for business...

is to set up a "lifestyle" that is magnetic. A lifestyle business where people are attracted to you, want to come to you and bring their ideas, concepts and business.

Is this right Ankesh? If so, then let's proceed to discuss it.

The reason the top Hollywood producers have people coming to them is because they have the ability to get the product produced, but more importantly, DISTRIBUTED. I'm somewhat at a loss with the Hugh Hefner analogy here, other than to say that these women who throw themselves at Hugh or Neil, are like the roadies and bangers of rock stars...they sleep with them because they want to be with someone "famous"? (I'll leave that alone from here in, OK?)

In business, no matter how good the idea, or the product...IF you can't get it distributed, it is worthless.

And that stands for an IDEA, as in TW not being able to get his dozen ideas "distributed" to the right people and profit from it...

All the way to the GIANTS, like Kraft, Procter & Gamble, COKE...when introducing a new product. They might get the product on shelves, but, take NEW Coke for example, it was not "distributed" to the buyers (in this case the product sucked).

The point is. IF you have the ability to HELP businesses with this MAJOR problem, I think you can establish the lifestyle of them coming to you.

Your thoughts?

Gordon Jay Alexander

Re: The Game & Lifestyle Epiphany
 

Ankesh + I have had this discussion at least once before.

It can get quite heated.

Imo, here are the 3 "B"s to avoid at all costs (because they are myths)...

"B"e a magnet.

"B"uild a better mousetrap and the wolrd will beat a path to your door.

"B"uilt it and they will come.

Who is a bigger magnet than McDonald's? Yet they advertise. Why?

Because if they were to stop advertising, they would go out of business.

Why?

Because: "The initial spark that leads to the vast majority of transactions emanates from the marketER, not the marketEE."

The main purpose of the McDonald's ads is not to impart knowledge about McDonald's -- you already know everything there is to know about McDonald's. The purpose of the ads is to BUG YOU. If they stop BUGGING you, you stop going there.

Take Halbert's Coat of Arms letter. How many of those sales were from people who were already looking for a coat of arms? Almost NONE, I'd guess. That means, if he had gone the 'magnet' route (set up SEO + pay per click + website, etc. -- for instance), he would have a FRACTION of the sales he DID get via using the OUTGOING ("pushy") route. In other words, he would have had NO SUCCESS, and no one in the world would know his name now.

There IS some value in being a 'magnet,' yes. But, from what I see, it doesn't do what you think it's gonna do -- ie: let you 'coast.'

Even Wal-Mart advertises. I'm assuming, because they NEED to.

-- TW

Re: The Game & Lifestyle Epiphany
 

The other factor that is in play is industry marketing specifics.

McDonald's, Walmart & etc. are offering products to the general public. Since the general public is always aging and new consumers are coming into play, it's mandatory that they keep advertising. They do not rely on the loyalty factor.

Products that Harvey Brody has a toll position on do not demand the same regimented marketing approaches. He is not marketing to the consumer but to an industry that knows who has control and is required to be loyal. It will be that industry's responsibility to market and offer the product(s) to the general public.

So just in this example, you have two completely different dynamics in play.

"Magnetic" marketing...
 

It certainly is an alluring idea! I become a magnet, and my customers become iron filings! I do nothing, and my magnetic 'power' DRAWS them to me. I relax in my hammock, and the phone rings off the hook. Aaahhh.

Almost all so-called magnetic marketing 'systems' I've seen, including Kennedy's, offer that same dream. Testimonials like, "I can't believe it - customers were coming in from NOWHERE! TONS of them!"

Here's the problem... All of those testimonials are about STEP 2 of the 'system.' What they leave out is Step 1.

Step 1 is (ALWAYS) -- BUG your potential customers *** A LOT ***. REPEATEDLY.

OOPS! Sorry. Did we forget to mention that?!?

In Kennedy's case, Step 1 is: Send out ZILLIONS of direct mail pieces.

Step 2 is "The phone rings off the hook." -- But that is Step TWO, not Step 1. There is NOTHING 'magnetic' about that system. It is NOT 'the customers come to you!!!' -- It is (just plain old) YOU go to the customers.

Unfortunately, it's really no different than the ancient WILLIE LOWMAN approach. The only difference is -- with the Kennedy plan, etc. -- you're using the mail, not in-person or the phone. The benefit is, YOU DON'T HAVE TO EXPERIENCE THE REJECTION FIRST-HAND!

But make no mistake, the rejection IS there. It's just that the rejection is: people ignoring or throwing away the letters -- instead of hanging up on you or slamming the door in your face.

Yes, it's a more 'pleasant' form of rejection. You can pretend it isn't there. You can convince yourself that Step 2 is really Step 1.

But it sin't.

I still say, the fatal mistake being made here is believing that the group called "My potential customers" is the EXACT SAME GROUP as the group called, "People who are already looking for what I offer."

That is almost never the case.

If Halbert had believed that, he never would have crafted his letter, or sent any out. The marketer GOAL is to CHANGE (yes, CHANGE!) the marketEEs from being a potential customer to being a customer -- whether that potential customer was already looking for that product/service -- OR NOT!

The vast majority of GH's *customers* were NOT already looking for what he was offering!!! Read that again -- it is profound.

So, being a 'magnet' would not have helped him at all.

Knowing that *instinctively* (as GH did) is the best way of not falling for the alluring 'magnet' myth. ----- imo.

-- TW

Two parts to every duck...
 

I only picked Wal-Mart + McDonald's because those are examples everyone knows.

I think the same arguements can be made about all biz's -- big + small... niche + general public.

The two parts to every (successful) duck. The visible part -- floating calmly, magnanimously on the water (what could be called the front counter).

Then there's the feet UNDER the water -- furiously paddling like hell to stop from going over the waterfall (what could be called the back room).

I say that's the way it is -- and should be. It's dangerous to believe you can be a duck who has the top part without having to have the bottom part (too). Dangerous because it is an untruth. There's a very good chance you'll go over the waterfall.

-- TW

One of my favorite companies that doesn't advertise...
 

TW,

It could be a splitting of hairs on some issues, I won't argue with your premise...however, there are companies out there who really don't need to advertise, because of their "position" in the market.

Here is one of my favorites:

JIFFY MIX. Found in probably every supermarket and grocery store in
America. The blue box hasn't changed in years. They are the "low priced" product in the category. And they maintain that position because they DON'T ADVERTISE.

And, it is a HIGH quality product too. Most of their mixes (OPINION: some need improvement)...compete with the big name brands at 40 to 50% higher cost.

Their corn muffin mix is superior to most on the market, I use it all the time.

It is a great company, has been around forever...chances are EVERYONE who shops and bakes has seen their products.

They simply pass the "marketing" costs savings on to the consumer. Super company with high employee retention, been around forever and they don't advertise or "market" their products in the "traditional" ways.

Again, I'm not totally disagreeing with what you say, there is some accuracy in what you posted...but there are exceptions too.

HOW do we get a "magnetic position" in the marketplace like JIFFY MIX? It is having a clear understanding of your customers and what they want.

Gordon Jay Alexander

Don't advertise?...
 

Their 'ad' could be the price label on the shelf under their product and/or the way the box looks compared to the others.

A store's 'ad' could be their physical location (in a high-traffic area).

An 'ad' can be anything that a potential customer sees or experiences, whether they want to -- OR NOT!

Like a billboard -- or a biz's storefront (which is a billbaord, basically).

It is any 'message' that is SENT by the marketER -- and RECEIVED by the marketEE ---- not the other way around!

And that includes the (comparison) price labels on supermarket shelves.

It's grow or die.

Jiffy Mix's growth depends on *changing* the minds of their potential customers (active marketing), not just fielding incoming orders (being a 'magnet'). To do that takes an OUTGOING effort, such as advertising -- in one form or another. Their pricing IS a form of them 'stating their case' in an active way --- imo.

It's not just about having a difference in the marketplace that is 'magnetic.' It's about making sure that difference gets SEEN, UNDERSTOOD, and ACTED UPON by one's potential customers!

If a company has a USP in the forest, will anyone hear it? Does the 'sound' even 'exist?'

-- TW

Oh, OK. I see why you and Ankesh have had "heated" discussions.
 

gja

How many people does your website reach -- on average?...
 

I ask people that all the time.

They all seem shocked when I tell them the real answer.

"How many people does your website reach -- on average?"

Real answer: ZERO.

It's a trick question, in the first place.

Websites don't 'reach' anyone.

They merely wait for others to reach them.

That is backwards thinking, from a marketing perspective.

It's the type of thinking that HELPS one believe in dangerous marketing myths.

It's the type of thinking that led to the dot-com BUST.

It's the type of thinking that I'm sure causes Gary Halbert to roll over in his grave.

-- TW

I LOVED Gary Halbert...however...
 

I see you are a HUGE Gary Halbert fan. I LOVED Gary. HOWEVER, regarding business...he wasn't very good at it. By his own admission. He was great at creating excitement...

but, he died a pauper...his estate unable (or unwilling) to refund the $15,000.00 in cash that people gave to him for work he never got around to doing. It wasn't that he got the money the day before he died, he held onto their money for months without delivering the goods.

I don't think anyone compares to Gary as a person able to capture people's attention and their imagination...but he really didn't offer up much in the way of "permanent" business advice. It wasn't his cup of tea.

So, as for Gary turning over in his grave...I doubt it. He didn't care all that much when he was alive. He knew how to make a buck, often quickly. He didn't know how to keep them, or how to build a business.

But TW, I see this "discussion" has you with a very clear and distinct point of view...you don't believe in "magnetic marketing" in any way, shape or form...is that about right?

gja

I agree with you, Gordon...
 

GH was a terrible biz person. The only reason he even survived was his instictual knowledge that active mrktng is the way to go.

I DO believe there is such a thing as magnetic marketing -- or, more accurately, there IS an advantage to becoming a 'magnet.'

For instance, having a website is usually a GREAT idea -- and vital to one's success.

What I object to is, people not putting 'being a magnet' into proper perspective. Often, on the list of things to do, it should be placed at the bottom of the list, not the top.

It produces the least amount of biz, not the most. Yes, it produces the EASIEST amount of biz -- the amount that requires the LEAST amount of work, yes.

One could even say it produces the BEST customers. But it almost never produces the MOST customers.

If you are looking to create a marketing MACHINE (which I see as the ultimate goal), then being a magnet -- or trying to -- is a losing proposition.

THAT'S the perspective from which I am jumping up + down ;-)

I just see so many people getting that wrong -- because it's so SEDUCTIVE to follow those who would have you believe in the 'magnet' myth.

It allows one to *abdicate* one's own (true) marketing 'responsibility' -- and smile blindly/ignorantly while doing so.

Cheers!

-- TW

Build it and they will come...
 

Out in the desert between Phoenix and Tucson is the world center for Skydiving. The area is the "world" capital for skydiving.

There is a 40 million dollar simulator wind tunnel. They built it. And people come.

From all over the world. From the military. From every state.

In Northwest Ohio is Cedar Point...with the greatest number of roller coasters in the world...they built roller coasters...and people come.

Disneyland, Disneyworld.

There ARE many examples of "build it, and they will come" fields of dreams out there. Knowing what your market wants preceeds this, but it is not a "myth", imo.

Also, a better mousetrap? I got a new can opener for Christmas (what a silly gift I thought)...it is great. One of those one button push ones that cut the lid off without sharp edges...works GREAT. It is a far superior MOUSETRAP than what WAS out there.

They apparently have done some pretty big business too, OF COURSE they used push advertising with infomercials...there are scores of examples of building a better mousetrap...and the better mousetrap does attract a market.

But, I'm not going to beat what I consider to be a "dead horse" discussion with you TW, fair enough?

gja

Would you at least agree with this?...
 

Would you agree that having, "build it and they will come" as your marketing plan is risky, at best? -- Akin to buying a lottery ticket.

For every example of that idea being successful, I can, of course, give you millions that were not.

Besides, Disney World advertises -- a lot. Do they have the numbers to justify all that outlay? I'm sure they do. Even as big a 'magnet' as they are.

-- TW

I agree with most everything you've said...
 

TW,

I'm NOT in disagreement with what you said, but, as Ankesh put forth the subject...and maybe Magnet is too strong...or doesn't work because of all the hype and the great job the Kennedy's and Abraham's of the world have done.

So, in that regard, I DO agree with you.

But, in so much of the b2b, especially manufacturing specialty products...there is a ton of business taking place because someone has built it...and without much more than "we exist" advertising (say in Thomas Register)...

people are being ATTRACTED to them.

As for our marketing discussion, let's say we shift gears and offer up examples of a TOTAL plan, a real life marketing plan that gets away from the hype of the marketers with a 499 product to sell you on HOW TO sit in your underwear, or out by the pool sipping Mai-tais...and have people drive by your estate and toss 100 dollar bills into your new Bentley.

I GET that part. I have a really disappointing copy of "Magnetic Marketing" System/Tool Kit sitting on my desk right in front of me...I totally agree with your initial assessment...this is STEP 2.

I've always said, look at what they do, not what they tell you do do. And you are 100% dead on accurate when you say or point out that "they" do an awful lot of (and I do mean awful) PUSHING their wares upon us, don't they?

Now then. I do think that having certain "positions" in a market gives what some might call a "magnetic" positon because if they want you have...and know about it, they have to come through your toll position.

At point, for me, from here on out, is HOW can we or CAN we, develop such a position so that the big bosomed women of the world throw themselves at us as they do to Hugh Hefner?

What MARKETING methods are there that could give any of us such a position in our given markets? Or are there?

gja

Re: I LOVED Gary Halbert...however...
 

Re: The Game & Lifestyle Epiphany
 

I can vouch for losing 15k from Gary Halbert last December. I was so awestruck that he would even take me on. Then he told me to get involved with a friend of his who suppposedly tested a direct mail promotion. All the guy needed was money to roll out.

The only reason I did this was because I had read previous Halbert newsletters talking about success stories of people who formed partnerships and made some money. Also the Great Halbert asked me so how could I refuse.

I don't even want to tell you what I lost on that one.

I consider myself a smart business person but once again I fell in love with the aura of Gary Halbert. Quite honestly I am ashamed and embarrassed to admit this but I'm sick and tired of people talking about Halbert as if he was a saint.

I was vulnerable at the time and he took advantage of me. Yes Gordon his estate had nothing. I talked to the attorney in charge and he sympathetically said you and a bunch of others are in the same boat and there's no money.

What have I learned. To study, read, test.....ON MY OWN!! For all of you out there be careful of all the Gurus. Due your due diligence, check everything out, don't assume anything. I went through the school of hard knocks and I don't wish that kind of "education" on anyone.

I think this is the best forum. There are a lot of great people but I'd like to single out Gordon - for he has helped me the most.

Yes, explore the 'magnet' way -- just don't get SEDUCED by it...
 

Yes, yes, yes!

I agree! Explore all the ways to become magnet-like. It can only help. Being a magnet is definitely better than not being a magnet!

The question is, by *how much* can it help, really?

Where to place the quest for 'magnethood' on the priority list?

It's easy to fall prey to its promises. It promises MAGIC. Magic that will 'allow' one to NOT have to do distasteful things (like solicit).

Problem is, you can explore it all you want -- just be aware of how little the pay-off may be.

At best, it will allow you to solicit less-- SLIGHTLY LESS.

That's all. No less + no more than that.

It is NOT a 'cure' for having to solicit.

Imo, there is no cure for having to solicit.

Hell -- I'm with you -- I WISH there were a cure!

Soliciting IS distasteful -- for BOTH the solicitOR AND the solicitEE.

But it still is -- and always will be -- the 'spark' that causes the vast majority of transactions to happen.

There's no way around it. Not even the 'magnet' way.

Cheers!

-- TW

Companies that don't advertise or promote
 

Companies that do not advertise or promote go out of business or bought by someone that does these things.

Jiffy Mix I heard of so where they adverise. I just do not recall were I heard about them.

Gordon could you be wrong?

Re: Companies that don't advertise or promote
 

I know of several businesses in my town that don't advertise. 100% of their business is by referral, or repeat business based on their product quality and reputation.

I told one of the owners that I'd given him a recommendation on a local chat board, and he groaned "I have more business now than I can handle".

If you have a high quality product that people desperately need, you'll have to get a stick to keep them away. It only takes one referral to get the ball rolling.

Bozo... Re: The Game & Lifestyle Epiphany
 

You said...

"I told one of the owners that I'd given him a recommendation on a local chat board, and he groaned "I have more business now than I can handle".

If you have a high quality product that people desperately need, you'll have to get a stick to keep them away. It only takes one referral to get the ball rolling."

That doesn't really prove anything. There's a big difference between having 'enough' -- or even 'more than enough' -- customers, and getting as many customer as you can.

There are plenty of biz's who have 'enough' customers. Most biz's have 'enough' customers. I run into them all the time.

That's is no indication of how many MORE customers they would/could get via using *active* marketing methods (soliciting, etc.). Just because they don't HAVE to expand, doesn't mean they shouldn't expand. Imo, if (even) THOSE types of biz's tried, they'd find they could increase their biz by a factor of 700-1,000% by using active methods.

Saying 'all the customers they can handle' is meaningless, really.

What they really mean (usually) is, 'all the customers they WANT.'

-- TW

Re: Bozo... Re: The Game & Lifestyle Epiphany
 

Sure it does. It proves that Joe's statement, about businesses that don't advertise, is false.


It means that an additional customer would have to wait in line to be served. Remember, I was talking about desperate need, not somebody wanting a hamburger.


The guy told me he had all the business he could handle. I took him at his word.

By way of further explanation, these businesses are technical trades businesses. Like air conditioner guys, roofers, and like that. Each of them decided to start their own shop to get rid of a boss. Each of them are highly skilled at their trades, nice guys who give good service, and have no idea how to run a business much less grow a business. They have just created their own jobs.

Even so, none of them advertise or promote in any way, and have all the business they can handle.

Not everybody wants to be rich and famous, or employ hundreds of workers while sitting on the beach. Some guys enjoy their work and as long as they can make a good living at it they're happy.

Re: Bozo... Re: The Game & Lifestyle Epiphany
 

Oh, I see what you mean -- one person operations who want to stay that way. Nothing wrong with that. To some, that's the ultimate.

All I'm saying is, if they DID want to expand, they could -- and the best way to do that (is / may be) to go the 'soliciting' route.

We may agree on that. I see your point was, it IS possible to have 'enough' work -- or even 'more than enough' work via the 'magnet' route. Yes, I'd agree with that. But that's no indicator of how much more work would or wouldn't come from going the 'outgoing' route (if they ever did do that).

Sorry if I misinterpreted what you were saying.

-- TW

Re: Bozo... Re: The Game & Lifestyle Epiphany
 

Just for the sake of conversation...

Your statement here could also be wrong.

I experienced this myself. Tiny niche business, less than 2,500 people active in it in the USA at any one time, highly skilled people, highly dangerous, extremely technical work. So my partner and I decided we'd had enough of 'their' way of doing things and started up our own operation.

We spent months visiting and talking to every potential customer in the area. We banged on doors, made phone calls, sent letters, offered cut rates, and let ourselves be seen and known.

Our service was one that nobody wanted, because it is so expensive, but when they needed it they desperately needed it.

All that, and we got zero work. Nothing.

And then, when the desperate need reached it's peak, a competitor stumbled and got behind in his work.

That's when we learned that we'd been soliciting the wrong people. The whole business was controlled by ONE person...who had a contract with all the people we'd been talking to.

HE didn't care if we lived or died, until HE needed us.

At that point, our quality of work proved itself and from then on we had more than we could handle safely.

Maybe your statement would be better as "and the best way to do that (is / may be) to go the properly targeted 'soliciting' route."

Re: The Game & Lifestyle Epiphany
 

I thought that went without saying (targeted).

The list, or 'universe' is the most important thing to get right (first).

Soliciting well to a bad list will produce nothing, yet soliciting (even) badly to a good list will produce SOME results.

The WHO is more important than the HOW.

Also, one can make a list of who qualifies, without their knowledge or consent.

-- TW

Re: The Game & Lifestyle Epiphany
 

McDonalds India does no advertising. Yet its doing better every year since it opened.

The reason is: location. In India (at least in Mumbai) they've opened McDonalds only near train stations (Mumbai has some of the worlds busiest local train stations). And one is near the expressway toll that you have to go through to go out of Mumbai by road.

I think Starbucks is another brand that doesn't advertise. (But I may be wrong.)

As I see it, good marketing = Impact * Repetition.

You're a big proponent of repetition and bugging people out. I say if you work on your impact, you don't have to repeat your message that often. If your message is not that impactful, you have to repeat. A lot.

But by lifestyle-ing - what I'm trying to say is: how do you become the ultimate authority in your field?

How do you make your message (and yourself) so impactful - that other people do the repetition for you?

If its your birthday - you just need 2-3 people to know about it. They will wish you - others will see them wish you - and these others will come and wish you too. And that will make you the focus of attention in the room - and more girls will come to you because of that social proof that they witness.

Hugh Hefner has created a life for him where everyday is his birthday.

Eg: Jay Abraham. He didn't have to come on this forum and talk about himself. Some one (Don) did it for him!

How do you become the Jay Abraham? Or Hugh Hefner? Or even Harvard University? Or -- Paddi Lund*?

Paddi Lund = the dentist who fired half his clients, stopped advertising completely, and takes on new clients only on referrals. Reduced his workload by half and doubled his revenue. And has a long list of people clamoring and contacting his current clients to refer them to him.

The question is: What can TW do so that when a question about USP arises on forums, people say: oh you should contact TW? Or what can TW do so that no one even thinks of ripping off an idea from him?

If you think sending out a million mail pieces is the answer, then please state that. I wouldn't disagree with that. I think that could work. It may not be the best way imho. But it definitely can work.

Lets not get into Push or Pull. Or Direct marketing or branding. Lets use the word and.

Then lets move on and discuss a few more answers / opinions.

(TW - I know you can find a 101 different things to argue about this post. But lets do that some other day. Please just state what do you think we should do to become the Hefners of our industry? If you think trying to become the Hefners of our industry is a bad idea, then please reserve that comment for some other day so that this thread doesn't get hijacked with that never ending argument.)

Don't worry Ankesh...
 

I'm with you on the 'and' part!

Also, I see what you're getting at, and it's not the same subject we've already been over. I just get a little excited (loopy?) when this topic comes up because I see so many people willingly jump on the 'magnet' idea as a CURE-ALL -- which we'd both agree it is not.

Cheers!

-- TW

PS: I'm not really a USP expert. What I *would* like to be known for is someone who touts the benefits of so-called 'intrusive' marketing -- instead of what most people do, which is to brand it as 'evil' then just run away from it, without thinking it through rationally. It's an area where being "PC" has crept into marketing -- and I'd like to see that bias overturned or REturned to where it should be. That is something I'm really passionate about -- can you tell?

Re: A discussion of being the "center" of the room and have people come to you.
 

Thanks Gordon. Excellent point about Distribution.

If you can get things done, people will come to you. Besides distribution, it could also mean having a better track record. People watch Warren Buffet carefully because of his immense track record. But setting up a track record takes time.

For better distribution, build a better network of contacts.

How else can some one who is just getting started build a better distribution network?

--

Deconstructing Harvard University. It is probably the most popular educational institution. How did it become one?

1. They have strong barriers in place: and allow only kids who show good promise to become students. As their students got famous, so did they.

2. They came up with their own Press. They published books that promoted them.

So... 3 Action points:

1. Have some kind of a qualifier, a barrier in place. So that you seem to be exclusive. (Eg: Paddi Lund.)

2. Work only with the cream. (Hefner will never take an ugly girlfriend.)

3. Have a tool to spread the word about you. (Like Ben Suarez and his book.)

This scene comes to mind...
 

In The Godfather.

The old lady's landlord. He yells at Don Corleone and thinks he's crazy.

Then something happens -- we're not sure exactly what.

He ends up coming to Corleone's 'office' and apologizing profusely -- eagerly agreeing to anything he says.

Corleone even seems amazed and BEMUSED by his own 'power' over this guy.

What made Corleone the 'center of the room?'

POWER.

The reputation of being a KILLER.

I guess that's ONE WAY to 'market' yourself.

"If you don't go along with my power, I will have someone hit you over the head with a baseball bat -- but I'll never come right out and say that. It's just 'understood' by everyone."

How can we relate that example to the real/business world?

How can we 'motivate' others to 'submit' to our 'power?' (without having to kill anyone first!)

-- TW

TW Please Define "Marketing Machine"...
 

Aloha TW,


I am curious to hear...

1) Your specific idea of a "marketing machine".
2) Why magnetic marketing is detrimental to that.

Aloha,

Jason Cain

Re: The Game & Lifestyle Epiphany
 

Marketing machine: A 'device' in which you shovel potential customers in the top, and customers come out the bottom. Has a gas pedal too. The harder you push the gas pedal, them more customers come out the bottom. A real mrktng machine has this attribute: The gas pedal is under the marketER's control, not the marketEE's control.

I never said so-called 'magnetic' marketing is detrimental to a mrktng machine. On the contrary, it is most often ESSENTIAL to a well-funtioning machine. All I object to is, calling it 'magnetic.' That name is misleading. There's nothing 'magnetic' about it. That's all.

I use strategies like that all the time! I would be lost without them! I just don't call them magnetic. They are not.

Actually, some would say, being 'a magnet,' which I think is the wrong way to go (or to strive for, anyway), DOES NOT include using those so-called 'magnetic mrktng' methods exactly BECAUSE those methods are NOT truly magnetic. They DO involve ACTIVELY contacting the prospect REPEATEDLY -- which is a method that I DO advocate.

So, in summary: I DO advocate what is commonly called 'magnetic' markeitng (a la D. Kennedy), because it IS effective (but not really magnetic). And I DON'T advocate trying to 'be a magnet,' 'build it and they wil come,' etc.

Defining your universe (gather a list of potential customers), then bugging them repeatedly (you reaching them, not the other way 'round) IS the way to build an effective marketing 'machine.' No matter what Seth Godin says.

Make sense?

-- TW

A Powerful Lesson In Intimidation...
 

There is a powerful lesson for people in that Godfather analogy. A lesson that has been put forth in two indispensable works...

Thick Face, Black Heart
Winning Through Intimidation

Many marketers will find their income is directly proportional to their ability to "intimidate" prospects and clients.

Aloha,

Jason

PS: Jason -- just to clarify...
 

Being a 'magnet' (or trying to become one) isn't 'detrimental' to building a mrktng machine! It can only help!

The question is, how MUCH can it really help? THAT'S the question one has to ask oneself BEFORE spending a lot of time + money + energy making becoming a 'magnet' as a goal. THAT'S what I would caution against -- thinking it's gonna solve more problems than it really will.

Cheers!

-- TW

I See No Difference...
 

Aloha TW,

Being a student of Dan Kennedy for many years, I don't see any difference between your thoughts and what Dan Kennedy espouses. It seems to me that we are (I am :) ) getting hung up on semantics.

I do agree with everything that you have said -- and I think Dan would too.

Aloha,

Jason

I'm just sayin'...
 

What Kennedy says to do is right on -- it's just not 'magnetic,' and shouldn't be called 'magnetic.' That term is misleading.

Conversely what SHOULD be called magnetic (and is 'magnetic') is NOT the way to go, imo.

So, Kennedy, yes. Magnetic, no.

-- TW

Re: A discussion of being the "center" of the room and have people come to you.
 

Partner with someone who already has a distribution network. I wonder if Harvey Brody will be considering such partnerships with people here.

I was going to mention exclusivity also.

Well, he seems to take quite a few girlfriends who have fake breasts, which many men to find to be ugly. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I get your point though.


I would also add it that would help if you have an unusual or unusually interesting/compelling story that lends itself to getting tons of free publicity. Free press is a great tool.