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-   -   Do you need to be an expert in coding to build a successful startup?? (http://www.sowpub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7978)

Duane Adolph February 26, 2012 12:22 PM

Do you need to be an expert in coding to build a successful startup??
 
"Do you need to be an expert in coding to build a successful Startup, or can you employ experts to do the technical work for you?"

This was the question asked over at CNET

http://news.cnet.com/8301-33617_3-57...to-learn-code/

In the Internet Marketing world, Outsourcing coding is all the rage. This author says has a Different viewpoint.

"You have to code, not because you need to be good at it, but because technical employees are far more likely to follow a founder with technical experience."

I personally feel it is "NOT" a (need) necessity as many successful companies have been built without having to personally know coding....HOWEVER it IS an ADVANTAGE in terms of speed implementation and communicating with technical support staff.

In my corporate sales world...the Technical Engineer was brought on to a LOT of conference calls in a Group sell format, and was Vital to the discussion. But the lead sales guy was often Less then technical, basic understanding of benefits and impact to the client of the technology.

So what are YOUR opinions Sowpub? is the author on Target? or did he miss the mark? Do you "need" to be an expert in coding to build a successful startup?

What say you Sowpub?

Ankesh February 26, 2012 01:46 PM

Re: Do you need to be an expert in coding to build a successful startup??
 
Thanks Duane for starting an interesting discussion. My thoughts are of course biased - as I'm a non-technical founder of a tech startup.

What good developers want is not a technical founder. What they want is a good working environment. Challenging work. Reasonable pay.

Now, to create a good working environment - the developers do require that other awesome developers sit next to them.

And a non-technical person really has no clue on how to go about hiring awesome developers. There in lies the problem. Most non technical founders end up hiring mediocre folks who seem awesome. (And I've been guilty of this too in the past.) Which creates a boring work environment.

So a non-technical founder has to figure out a way to get past this. And hire awesome folks. Maybe ask awesome developer friends to conduct the interviews. Maybe sponsor hacker events and hire folks who win a challenge. But find a way to hire people that are awesome. If he can do that, he can succeed without learning to code himself. If he can't do that, it'll be a struggle to execute the ideas and achieve success.

Dien Rice February 26, 2012 01:51 PM

Re: Do you need to be an expert in coding to build a successful startup??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Duane Adolph (Post 30181)
"Do you need to be an expert in coding to build a successful Startup, or can you employ experts to do the technical work for you?"

Hi Duane,

I think that - if you need custom-made software for your start up - you can hire people to create that software, even if you are not a "coder" (i.e. programmer) yourself.

However, it may be easier to communicate with programmers if you are a programmer yourself...

I don't have direct experience in this area. I think Ankesh may, though. (Be sure to check out Ankesh's website, SuccessNexus, for example.)

My brother, Thomas, is not a "professional" coder, but he can program, and has done some programming for his own projects. I think he's found his own programming skills to be an advantage when hiring programmers. (His most extensive project so far, not counting projects still in development, has been the online browser-based game, Dragon Tavern. One of his earlier projects was MyLinkVault.)

Best wishes!

Dien

Dien Rice February 26, 2012 02:10 PM

Re: Do you need to be an expert in coding to build a successful startup??
 
Hi Duane,

You might also like this...

How technical does a start-up founder have to be?

This is an old discussion from "Hacker News" which seems to be relevant to what you're asking...

Best wishes,

Dien

Cornell February 26, 2012 05:00 PM

Re: Do you need to be an expert in coding to build a successful startup??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Duane Adolph (Post 30181)
"Do you need to be an expert in coding to build a successful Startup, or can you employ experts to do the technical work for you?"



No...but you have to know what you want and how you expect it to function and be able to communicate this in clear and concise terms....and hope you have made the right choice in a developer.

Ankesh is correct in saying you have to find the good developer.

I am not a coder and the first foray into having software developed resulted in several months of a bad coder wasting time and ended up in us having a successful lawsuit against him. He came with glorious testimonials and was well known on the forums but the fact was that he was nothing but a shyster.

Just a hint (in case you pick an incompetent developer)....when you enter into the contract with a developer make sure that there is a clause that any and all emails, PM's, ICQ messages or other forms of communication are parcel and part of the contract....and keep and store all communications.

Our second developer was great but ran into a personal dilemma and abandoned us (understandably given the circumstances) but he laid the ground work, the basic backbone of the software (incidentally he is back working with us when needed)

Our third and final developers we found in S. America and we have been with them for just about 10 years now.

You need to write a complex blueprint of exactly how you expect it to work (leaving out nothing), how all the functions will interact., etc., before turning it over to a developer. While even a great developer can't read your mind they will advise you what can and can't be done according to the guidelines set out in the blueprint....and a good developer will find or suggest a workaround or alternative for things you have specified but can't be done exactly as you have said in the blueprint.

I did 2 blueprints.....

one an overview for the different developers to look at and use as a basis for giving a bid on the work.

second was comprehensive for the selected developer....took a full week and some 40+ pages laying it all out in black and white.

If you are lucky enough to find a good developer and keep them....after a period of time you will develop a synergy with them...the developer knowing what you expect and you knowing what the developer is capable of doing....more than anything a trust in each other.

Good developers aren't cheap.... they really are worth their weight in gold when you find them.... pay them well and above all treat them well.

Most bargain basement developers will end up giving you mile high headaches.

Dien Rice February 26, 2012 09:25 PM

Re: Do you need to be an expert in coding to build a successful startup??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornell (Post 30185)
No...but you have to know what you want and how you expect it to function and be able to communicate this in clear and concise terms....and hope you have made the right choice in a developer.

Ankesh is correct in saying you have to find the good developer.

Wow, I think there's some great advice here, from both Cornell and Ankesh! (By the way, I believe Cornell developed the "AthenaGold" website software, which helps you easily create your own website, including membership websites...)

I just spoke to my brother Thomas on the phone, and asked him (off the cuff) what his take was on Duane's question...

He said...

1. If you are not a programmer, it is harder to recognize who is a good programmer, and who isn't. That means you're more likely to hire a programmer who's not very good.

Both Ankesh and Cornell also mentioned this, and gave solutions that non-programmers could use to address this problem.

2. Another thing my brother mentioned is that some freelance programmers have a "pet peeve" of being asked to do things that are impossible. This is because non-programmers don't have a good feeling for what is possible, and what isn't.

Cornell already addressed this issue, too!

Anyway, wow, great advice here.

Of course, there are still about a zillion ways to make money without needing to deal with programmers - but it's good to know this advice, if you ever decide you do want to create any "custom-made" software for your business and/or website...

Best wishes,

Dien

Cornell February 27, 2012 04:01 AM

Thanks Dien and a couple of tidbits.......
 
Hi Dien:

Thanks for mentioning the software.

My partner and I did develop the AthenaGold software.

When we started out we had a $15,000 budget....well....we have blown that right into outer space with costs that hit 6 figures 2 years ago....that is just developers fees by the way.

If you don't mind I would just like to input a bit more.

People that decide to have a script written generally overlook an area that can be a killer.... and that is support. It gets very costly and time consuming and someone has to be paid to do it.

A little $37 or $47 script that gets developed and sold is cool, and if it catches the sales could go into the 1000's. of copies...if a script sold 5,000 copies at a $47 one time fee it would yield $235,000 in sales....

Now just imagine 5,000 users hitting you for support...and no matter how simple the script is the requests will come. And they will continue as long as the software is being used (Heck...Bill Myers discontinued support on his eShowcase V2 software back in the late 90's after he sold it and the the new owners pretty much stopped supporting V2......I still field 4 or 5 requests for assistance with it every year even though it is so outdated and insecure that it shouldn't be used).

It won't take long for the support and further bugs, etc., to eat into that nice big figure that was so enticing.

So....if you are considering software script development you need to be aware of this and I would suggest selling the script on a continuity basis (membership)....even if it is just a few dollars a month. If you don't have a residual income coming in the ongoing costs of support are going to eat you up.

Another area of concern is security....

The last thing you want is a major law suit because your script was vulnerable and a hacker figured out how to use it to break into a site or server.

We spent a full six months on security development alone. We have so many failsafes built in that it would make your head spin....We get detailed reports from the software each and every day of failed attempts to break in....not just on our own sites but on sites that have the software installed on them...we get everything in the report - the site attempted, the url attempted, any code they tried to enter, time, IP address, the hosting server from which the attempt came, and lots more. We even get a detailed report on each and every install where suspicious activity (such as incorrect login info) has occurred on the login to the admin area.

Those are just a couple of more tidbits to consider if and when you get the script development bug :o)

Again ...thanks Dien.

Cornell

Duane Adolph February 28, 2012 03:44 AM

Re: Do you need to be an expert in coding to build a successful startup??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ankesh (Post 30182)
Thanks Duane for starting an interesting discussion. My thoughts are of course biased - as I'm a non-technical founder of a tech startup.


Hi Ankesh,

Thanks

- Surprised...more like SHOCKED that you consider yourself "non-technical" considering your blog/business projects over the years. And BIASED opinion is exactly the perspective i.e REAL WORLD that I was looking to "hear"



Quote:

What good developers want is not a technical founder. What they want is a good working environment. Challenging work. Reasonable pay.

Now, to create a good working environment - the developers do require that other awesome developers sit next to them.

- Interesting insight about "good working environment"...How would one create such an environment virtually? Have you done anything with virtual developers? or are all yours local.


Quote:

And a non-technical person really has no clue on how to go about hiring awesome developers. There in lies the problem. Most non technical founders end up hiring mediocre folks who seem awesome. (And I've been guilty of this too in the past.) Which creates a boring work environment.

So a non-technical founder has to figure out a way to get past this. And hire awesome folks. Maybe ask awesome developer friends to conduct the interviews. Maybe sponsor hacker events and hire folks who win a challenge. But find a way to hire people that are awesome. If he can do that, he can succeed without learning to code himself. If he can't do that, it'll be a struggle to execute the ideas and achieve success.

Thanks for sharing some ideas on getting Awesome Talent.

Hmm so the bottom line is be sure to GET the Awesomeness in your business. If that is not you then at least get somebody who has enough knowledge to hire the awesomeness for you.

THANK YOU for sharing your perspective and field experience Ankesh

Duane Adolph February 28, 2012 03:55 AM

Re: Do you need to be an expert in coding to build a successful startup??
 
Hi Dien,

Thanks. I would agree for a custom solution it would be better to outsource to a specialist. We've done and do this all the time with clients (corporate consulting world)

As you point out, one of the common challenges I'm hearing is in the COMMUNICATION.

Thanks for sharing your brother Thomas's website. The Dragon Tavern project does look quite intricate. Would be curious to hear what "sparked" that idea? How is Thomas doing??

AsK him to ....Wait a minute. I think YOU are the older brother right? TELL him to drop by and say hello :D

Thanks Dien

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dien Rice (Post 30183)
Hi Duane,

I think that - if you need custom-made software for your start up - you can hire people to create that software, even if you are not a "coder" (i.e. programmer) yourself.

However, it may be easier to communicate with programmers if you are a programmer yourself...

I don't have direct experience in this area. I think Ankesh may, though. (Be sure to check out Ankesh's website, SuccessNexus, for example.)

My brother, Thomas, is not a "professional" coder, but he can program, and has done some programming for his own projects. I think he's found his own programming skills to be an advantage when hiring programmers. (His most extensive project so far, not counting projects still in development, has been the online browser-based game, Dragon Tavern. One of his earlier projects was MyLinkVault.)

Best wishes!

Dien


Duane Adolph February 28, 2012 03:57 AM

Re: Do you need to be an expert in coding to build a successful startup??
 
Woohoo! Thanks for Digging this one up Dien. I had a read through and valuable discussions on there. I REALLY appreciate it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dien Rice (Post 30184)
Hi Duane,

You might also like this...

How technical does a start-up founder have to be?

This is an old discussion from "Hacker News" which seems to be relevant to what you're asking...

Best wishes,

Dien



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