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-   -   Books on pursuasion - Suggestions please. (http://www.sowpub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10936)

Manoj March 12, 2021 02:41 PM

Books on pursuasion - Suggestions please.
 
Hi,

It is my first post. These days I am reading "The Magic Power of Emotional Appeal" by Roy Garn in ebook format. While reading the book, I got so impressed by the real life examples given that I decided to read other works by Garn. So I searched Google to find other books by him. Unfortunately, I could not find any which made me guess that perhaps he wrote only one book on the subject.

However, my searching for Roy Garn somehow landed me on this website. I am an active Internet user since 2002 and I am really surprised as to why I did not find it earlier. It is a hidden gem.

My question is to Gordon who seems to be an epitome of all things related to selling and persuasion. After reading your post (Titled : Ah yes. Intent. Purpose. Action and adjustment.), I have already purchased the kindle edition of three books by Elmer Wheeler & Elmer G. Leterman.

My questions are :

1) Please advise me some other books and course on persuasion and understanding the mind of my prospects. I have a huge passion of reading such books and want to further improve my knowledge.

2) Whether your course "REMOTE INFLUENCE" is still available? It seems to be but I want to make sure. Is it also about persuasion and based on books? Or it is some kind of distilled knowledge that has come out from your life long experience of writing persuasive copy?

3) Whether the updated edition of Roy Garn's book by you (or some other sowpub member) is available now? In one of your post, you have mentioned about it.

Thanks a lot. I am sorry for asking so many questions in the very first post itself. But, after reading the content here, I am very much curious to know their answers. Kindly see if you can throw some light on my queries.

Regards,
Manoj

GordonJ March 12, 2021 08:32 PM

There are so many. I suggest one goes in the direction of their goals.
 
Thanks for posting.

Keep in mind, Roy Garn's work barely scratches the surface of the subject and his FATAL FOUR could be expanded.

On general overall persuasion, ROBERT CIALDINI, INFLUENCE: THE PSYCHOLOGY OF PERSUASION (I like the 5th edition). And Blair Warren's FORBIDDEN KEYS TO PERSUASION

I think Dien Rice offers Remote Influence, I don't sell it. It is based on the Square One Workshops. Here is the PictoGrigm of Persuasion:

https://bit.ly/2PZ4Ykl

I've not seen a Garn update, however, in the archives, you will find some discussions on this, and the FATAL FOUR. I use the PoP above and Modified Maslow Pyramid for most things of influence.

Gordon

PS If you have any specific questions, feel free to post them up here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manoj (Post 41698)
Hi,

It is my first post. These days I am reading "The Magic Power of Emotional Appeal" by Roy Garn in ebook format. While reading the book, I got so impressed by the real life examples given that I decided to read other works by Garn. So I searched Google to find other books by him. Unfortunately, I could not find any which made me guess that perhaps he wrote only one book on the subject.

However, my searching for Roy Garn somehow landed me on this website. I am an active Internet user since 2002 and I am really surprised as to why I did not find it earlier. It is a hidden gem.

My question is to Gordon who seems to be an epitome of all things related to selling and persuasion. After reading your post (Titled : Ah yes. Intent. Purpose. Action and adjustment.), I have already purchased the kindle edition of three books by Elmer Wheeler & Elmer G. Leterman.

My questions are :

1) Please advise me some other books and course on persuasion and understanding the mind of my prospects. I have a huge passion of reading such books and want to further improve my knowledge.

2) Whether your course "REMOTE INFLUENCE" is still available? It seems to be but I want to make sure. Is it also about persuasion and based on books? Or it is some kind of distilled knowledge that has come out from your life long experience of writing persuasive copy?

3) Whether the updated edition of Roy Garn's book by you (or some other sowpub member) is available now? In one of your post, you have mentioned about it.

Thanks a lot. I am sorry for asking so many questions in the very first post itself. But, after reading the content here, I am very much curious to know their answers. Kindly see if you can throw some light on my queries.

Regards,
Manoj


Manoj March 13, 2021 12:26 PM

Re: There are so many. I suggest one goes in the direction of their goals.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GordonJ (Post 41699)
Thanks for posting.

Keep in mind, Roy Garn's work barely scratches the surface of the subject and his FATAL FOUR could be expanded.

On general overall persuasion, ROBERT CIALDINI, INFLUENCE: THE PSYCHOLOGY OF PERSUASION (I like the 5th edition). And Blair Warren's FORBIDDEN KEYS TO PERSUASION

I think Dien Rice offers Remote Influence, I don't sell it. It is based on the Square One Workshops. Here is the PictoGrigm of Persuasion:

https://bit.ly/2PZ4Ykl

I've not seen a Garn update, however, in the archives, you will find some discussions on this, and the FATAL FOUR. I use the PoP above and Modified Maslow Pyramid for most things of influence.

Gordon

PS If you have any specific questions, feel free to post them up here.


Thanks Gordon,

Three more questions I have:-

1) I have already read 'Influence' and 'Forbidden Key to Persuasion'. While reading the bibliography in 'Forbidden Key..', I came across mention of 'Hypnotic Writing' by Dr. Joe Vitale and then while reading 'Hypnotic Writing', I got the mention of Roy Garn's book. So, I have already covered the general basics of persuasion. Kindly tell me some advanced stuff which is interesting and informative.

2) Further, while I agree that Dien Rice offers Remote Influence and you don't sell it, the sales page is mentioning you as the creator of this ebook. I don't know anything about 'Square One Workshops'. My question to you is to tell me whether as a life long student of the persuasion and human behavior, should I read this 'Remote Influence' or first I should complete all the evergreen copywriting/Selling books (like that of Elmer Wheeler). In other words, if their anything about this book (Remote Influence) which you - as an author of the same - would like to reveal which is not covered in the Sales page?

3) Plus where can I learn the POP and Maslow Method?

Regards,
Manoj

GordonJ March 13, 2021 04:56 PM

What is your intent? Salesman? Copywriter? Speaker?
 
Thanks,

And don't take any offense, I don't know you. OK?

Although I READ Garn in the 60's, I have studied the FATAL FOUR and Pre-Occupations for 50+ years. I know a lot of guys with man caves, and bookshelves full of books on Copywriting, Selling, Marketing, etc., etc. and most can't persuade their way out of the proverbial wet bag.

So, I ask about INTENT, what is the purpose of the studies? What is the goal?

Last question first, NO, I don't think Remote Influence would give you anything you don't already have, so save your pennies on that one. FORBIDDEN KEYS is one of a few on my desktop. It is a beginning textbook, and coupled with the bibliography is a good starting point. My copy has notes on both sides, it is single paged, and it is a constant study guide.

I don't get much from Joe Vitale, although others might. Garn was old world salesman type. His contribution is mainly by identifying a few of the PREOCCUPATIONS we have. Very few people teach that as the foundation of persuasion, and I think, it is because very few have the depth to go into it.

I linked to the PictoGrigm of Persuasion (Remote version). If you have questions, ask here, I think it is self explanatory, if, one takes the time to write it out in their own handwriting.

Google or Bing Maslow, images, and see scores of pyramids. These also represent financial status too, one merely getting by is not going to shell out 10k or 25k to go on a Tony Robbins retreat, or pay 10k to sweat to death in a tee pee in the AZ desert either. Poor people are seldom self actualized folks.

Over the past 35 years of being online, and 21 here, I have revealed everything I know, it is, however, somewhat cryptic to some people.
There are other works, many of them, but without an idea of what the studies are to be used for, or what goal all of this information is about, I hesitate to make suggestions.

I have found Aristotle and Shakespeare to be two of the best teachers in my life of persuasion, but Billy S. is not everyone's cup of tea.

PRACTICAL PSYCHOLOGY by Crane was a good jump off point when I was 20, and all things Storytelling, including a comprehensive study of Joseph Campbell and HERO WITH A 1000 FACES.

From a useful, practical point, I always know what my intent is going into whatever. If you know what you want the other person to do, you can take a Socratic approach and asking questions. What is the target PREOCCUPIED WITH?

How can I interrupt him/her?

WHERE do I intersect?

Knowing the end result, is akin to Harvey Brody's VIEW FROM THE ROOFTOP, which we have talked about extensively here too. I also follow Glenn Osborn, thinking he may have some of the most practical applications of PreOccupations Interrupters.

Gordon


Quote:

Originally Posted by Manoj (Post 41701)
Thanks Gordon,

Three more questions I have:-

1) I have already read 'Influence' and 'Forbidden Key to Persuasion'. While reading the bibliography in 'Forbidden Key..', I came across mention of 'Hypnotic Writing' by Dr. Joe Vitale and then while reading 'Hypnotic Writing', I got the mention of Roy Garn's book. So, I have already covered the general basics of persuasion. Kindly tell me some advanced stuff which is interesting and informative.

2) Further, while I agree that Dien Rice offers Remote Influence and you don't sell it, the sales page is mentioning you as the creator of this ebook. I don't know anything about 'Square One Workshops'. My question to you is to tell me whether as a life long student of the persuasion and human behavior, should I read this 'Remote Influence' or first I should complete all the evergreen copywriting/Selling books (like that of Elmer Wheeler). In other words, if their anything about this book (Remote Influence) which you - as an author of the same - would like to reveal which is not covered in the Sales page?

3) Plus where can I learn the POP and Maslow Method?

Regards,
Manoj


Manoj March 14, 2021 11:29 AM

Re: Books on pursuasion - Suggestions please.
 
Thanks Gordon,

There is nothing offensive in your reply. Rather, I am glad that I have been able to get answers of questions from someone who have studied persuasion for more years than my age (42 by the way). Thank you very much.

I shall save my money by not purchasing ' The Remote Influence'. Thanks for the advice.

I shall also google to know more about Maslow Pyramid and POP. Thanks for that also.

Perhaps, it is a mistake on my part to ask questions without specifying my intent for the same. I can understand that any suggestion can only be given in the background of a context — which was missing in my questions.

I am a full time day job guy from India who is slowly making progress in my online side gig. I am offering my services (backlink building) in the SEO industry to some clients and have made good inroads in this business. My success and income is increasing, and I am getting some glimpse of the future where I will be able to leave my day job and work full time on it.

However, the problem is that I only have 1 regular big client (and few small one) who is giving me most of my work. No matter how good they are and how much work these clients are giving me, this situation is just like putting all my eggs in one basket. Unless, I get leads on regular basis from numerous new clients, I will not be in a position to scale up the things.

So, here I am. Trying to get new clients in an ultra-competitive (but highly profitable) SEO industry as a lone ranger. I know that in this industry where a potential client is bombarded by almost similar offers on daily basis, it is extremely difficult to break their preoccupation and want then to listen to me and read my offer.

Hence, this quest on my part to know as much as I can about human behaviour, copywriting, salesmanship & persuasion to make sure that my copy (in whichever form it is- paid fb ads, articles, blog posts, guest post or salesletter) has the maximum chance to get a response from my intended audience.

Apart from finding clients, I have also found that persuasion tactics are immensely useful while searching backlink opportunities for my clients. For example, the negotiation tactics in the book 'Never Split the Difference- by Chriss Voss' have been very helpful in finalizing the deal on so many occasions. This book written by a former FBI hostage negotiator talks about tactical empathy where we slowly lead the negotiation in such a way that the person agree to our demand but think that it is we who have agreed to his demand. Something akin to the strategy given in 'Forbidden Secret..' that says that 'People sometimes believe what they are told, but they always believe what they conclude'.

So, you can see that I am an avid learner of persuasion strategies and applying them also in my business whenever I get chance. However, I feel that I am still an elementary student and I need to know more. My biggest challenge is to create a system where I can get regular new clients in my SEO business.

I would be much obliged if you can advise me on this aspect.

Regards,
Manoj

GordonJ March 14, 2021 03:02 PM

Thanks for the context.
 
My opinion, now, is, reread or get into Gene Schwartz' BREAKTHROUGH ADVERTISING and review those STAGES OF AWARENESS.

In your business, you probably encounter those who have no idea what a backlink is, or how Google and Bing use them as part of their algorithm.

So, you would craft a promotion, depending on where you intersect with them and try to cover all the bases. OR, target those who are unaware, and maybe via a HOTSHEET you can educate them about backlinks, maybe give it away as a lead generator.

Or a simple quiz or just a question: Do you know how Google and Bing use backlinks in their algorithms? If you want higher rankings, here is what you need to know:

Or if they are aware, they might be price shopping or somewhere in between you can address their awareness and offer good solutions.

Yes, bottom line for all business is MORE BUSINESS OR better business...more per sale, more sales, more customers.

So that part of your copy will address that...but right up front, you need someone to raise their hands and tell you, I know NOTHING about backlinks or I know what they are, how much are you charging.

One problem, with a serious student...you may want or attempt to incorporate all kinds of ideas into your copy. Which is why I suggest Schwartz, a simple 5 stages of awareness. And that is the wireframe, or framework to wrap your persuasion around.

That doesn't mean you can't use all the USEFUL methods and strategies, but what happens is CONFUSION and especially with conflicting advice. And there is a lot of that in copywriting, selling and all things persuasion.
Using Schwartz as a foundation, and the stages of awareness can give you a way to further segment or identify your ideal prospect and also to customize a promotion which is most likely to match, right?

If you have a website then you can post a little white paper/report on BACKLINKS and SEO strategies, and collect email addys for further contact.

IF they know about backlinks then they might be price shopping and this is where you have VALUE ADDED PROPOSITION to compete.

Where you place your ads or promotions, the INTERSECTION will help you determine the sort of copy (educational, value added, secrets) you will use.

I strongly encourage you to STOP for a two week period, of reading and learning...come back to it later...and instead write out five different promotions for each of the stages of awareness.

This will help you focus on what THEY want, and help you to tune into any buzz or useful persuasion methods.

Once you have 5 different promotions outlined or sketched out, then you can go through and look at them through the different eyes of Elmer, Halbert, Schwab, Collier, et al.

Is this helpful?

Gordon





Quote:

Originally Posted by Manoj (Post 41703)
Thanks Gordon,

There is nothing offensive in your reply. Rather, I am glad that I have been able to get answers of questions from someone who have studied persuasion for more years than my age (42 by the way). Thank you very much.

I shall save my money by not purchasing ' The Remote Influence'. Thanks for the advice.

I shall also google to know more about Maslow Pyramid and POP. Thanks for that also.

Perhaps, it is a mistake on my part to ask questions without specifying my intent for the same. I can understand that any suggestion can only be given in the background of a context — which was missing in my questions.

I am a full time day job guy from India who is slowly making progress in my online side gig. I am offering my services (backlink building) in the SEO industry to some clients and have made good inroads in this business. My success and income is increasing, and I am getting some glimpse of the future where I will be able to leave my day job and work full time on it.

However, the problem is that I only have 1 regular big client (and few small one) who is giving me most of my work. No matter how good they are and how much work these clients are giving me, this situation is just like putting all my eggs in one basket. Unless, I get leads on regular basis from numerous new clients, I will not be in a position to scale up the things.

So, here I am. Trying to get new clients in an ultra-competitive (but highly profitable) SEO industry as a lone ranger. I know that in this industry where a potential client is bombarded by almost similar offers on daily basis, it is extremely difficult to break their preoccupation and want then to listen to me and read my offer.

Hence, this quest on my part to know as much as I can about human behaviour, copywriting, salesmanship & persuasion to make sure that my copy (in whichever form it is- paid fb ads, articles, blog posts, guest post or salesletter) has the maximum chance to get a response from my intended audience.

Apart from finding clients, I have also found that persuasion tactics are immensely useful while searching backlink opportunities for my clients. For example, the negotiation tactics in the book 'Never Split the Difference- by Chriss Voss' have been very helpful in finalizing the deal on so many occasions. This book written by a former FBI hostage negotiator talks about tactical empathy where we slowly lead the negotiation in such a way that the person agree to our demand but think that it is we who have agreed to his demand. Something akin to the strategy given in 'Forbidden Secret..' that says that 'People sometimes believe what they are told, but they always believe what they conclude'.

So, you can see that I am an avid learner of persuasion strategies and applying them also in my business whenever I get chance. However, I feel that I am still an elementary student and I need to know more. My biggest challenge is to create a system where I can get regular new clients in my SEO business.

I would be much obliged if you can advise me on this aspect.

Regards,
Manoj


unpinkpanther March 14, 2021 04:01 PM

Manoj, hope this helps you
 
Hello Manoj:

Thanks for sharing

From what you said, I think you may want to check out Gordon's new report "Planning for Success"

Here's why:

Without a clear plan, you can literally go off blindly in a million different directions - with no guarantee of success

(Been there, done that)

By the way, one thing I personally love about how Gordon presents information is how easy he makes it to DIGEST and APPLY.

Back to you...

With your full-time day job, you may find that most of the time available to you to build your business will be your night hours and your weekends.

And if you have a family with kids who also need your attention, squeezing out time to grow your business can be extremely difficult

(Again, been there, done that. Even got the T-shirt)

A clear action plan can help save you YEARS of wasted time and guesswork by helping you quickly spot the key fundamentals to focus on.

I highly recommend you pick up Planning for Success today. Just PayPal $7 to [email protected] to pick up your copy

Bonus: you also get a special bonus that could help you with your business - if you apply it, of course.

Hope this helps

Thanks again

Manoj March 16, 2021 02:29 PM

Re: Books on pursuasion - Suggestions please.
 
Sorry for my late reply. I got stuck in affairs of my day job.

@Gordon

Thanks a lot from the deepest of my heart. I have not yet read Breakthrough Advertising but your recommendation has catapulted it to top spot in my waiting list of books.

This was exactly the advice I was looking for. Yes, I am a serious student and well aware of the danger of the confusion. Thanks for giving me a structured advice. I know that reading books is one thing and implementing the knowledge gain in realty is another. I know that it is going to be a long battle but your guiding words will always be there to help me. I think, I will come back again and again to re-read what you have suggested Or for asking some more questions. Thanks a lot again.

@unpinkpanther

Thanks a lot for so clearly outlining the struggle of a family man who is trying to balance so many responsibilities while building a side business. So many of us are in the same boat. I shall be picking 'Planning for Success' later this week on weekend. Thanks for the recommendation. I can't agree more that I should read each and every word shared by Gordon here. This place is going to be a place where I will keep visiting again and again.

Thanks,
Manoj

unpinkpanther March 17, 2021 08:59 AM

Smart move there...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Manoj (Post 41709)
@pinkpanther

I shall be picking 'Planning for Success' later this week on weekend. Thanks for the recommendation.

Thanks,
Manoj


Smart move there, Manoj. I think you'll love this report.

Please let me know when you pick up your copy.

I'll be glad to chat with you privately on your plan for growing your services and how I could help

To your success!

Glenn March 21, 2021 06:53 PM

The Persuasion Book Which Made The Author 750 Million
 
Thanks Gordon,

In My Opinion (80/20 Principle) Tops all the other Persuasion books. Most Profitable Concept I Ever Discovered.

One reason is it is So Easy to Implement.

You Can USE it every Day.

Everywhere.

Print
Phone
Face to face/

TA-DA!

(EDITORS NOTE - Many People have Read The book But Missed The Hidden PERSUASION SECRET.)

"80/20 Principle" - Richard Koch

HINT...

The Key Idea is Hidden in the Difference Btwn The Two consulting Companies
Koch Worked for.

1 well known - growing at 1% a year

2nd Unknown - Growing at 40% a Year.

The Secret?

Find Out What People are ALREADY Doing to Make Money. What they Know and Are Comfy with.

Share Similar Ideas - Almost the Same but from a Different Culture or Industry
or Country.

DO THIS and Total Strangers Will
CALL YOU - CHASE YOU.

At The Very Least You Will Get Appointments 100% of the time.

Thanks,
Glenn Osborn
Millionaire Mastermind Marketing Association

P.S. - For Example...

I Wanted to Test Headlines to An Outside Audience of STRANGERS.

Started Writing Articles on Medium.com

After Writing a Few FAILURES - I Skimmed Articles getting The Most READS.

***Articles About Celebrities.***

So I Wrote...

"How Marlon Brando Had to Eat Kleenex To Get Godfather Movie Role"

The Producers HATED Brando.

The Director Came to His House. Did a short Video Of Brando Doing Don Corleone.

Brando Stuffed Kleenex in his Cheeks.
Sifted Flour in his Hair.

AMAZED The Producers and Naysayers.

MY RESULT?

This Article Got More READS than Any of the other Stuff I Wrote. Much of the 100+ articles - Specific Case Studies About 7 Figure Ideas.

ALL I Did Was Look at What 200 Million People (On Medium) were ALREADY READING.

========

"SMELLS LIKE MY Vagina" - (Best selling Candle on her Website.

My Article about Gwyneth Paltrow got Huge Readership too.


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