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-   -   Storytelling VS Reason-Why Copy What Is Your Experience And Thoughts? (http://www.sowpub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11249)

MikePT June 2, 2022 09:48 AM

Storytelling VS Reason-Why Copy What Is Your Experience And Thoughts?
 
Pros,

What has been your experience and results on Storytelling VS Reason-Why copy?

For what I study, Storytelling can be super powerful. However it takes a top notch skill to do it.

And in particular on selling information, what is your experience/thoughts?

Your thoughts and experiences?

Thanks!

MikePT

Dien Rice June 2, 2022 02:53 PM

Re: Storytelling VS Reason-Why Copy What Is Your Experience And Thoughts?
 
Hi Mike,

I tend to focus on writing the kind of promos I like to read myself...!

So, what I like to do is to make sure I give value... I like the idea that someone can read one of my promotions, and still benefit, even if they don't buy...

I'm not saying you have to do it this way - many people don't...

However, I seem to have a very low "unsubscribe" rate on my email lists... I think that's because I try to give value with every email...

Because of unsubscribes, you have to give value with your emails. However, another "formula" I know that others use is to give value in some emails, and have pure "sales" copy in other emails...

Often I give value by telling stories that people can benefit from...

By the way, I'm not sure if you should write emails just for the sake of writing emails.

I'm on the email list of one copywriter, who emails every day. Often, they're about something that happened to him that day... which is often something that doesn't seem all that important to me...

The problem is, I don't find all those emails valuable... So I find I'm reading his emails less and less.

On the other hand, there are other copywriters / marketers whose emails I always look forward to...

Personally, that's what I aim for!

I think you always need to give a "reason why"... It seems crazy to me not to have one! But you can easily have both a story, and a "reason why"...

It's harder to write a story, admittedly. But... the good thing is you can accumulate an "archive" of your stories, which you can then use in other places... Like on social media, if you choose to. Or, if the stories are good enough, you can even compile it into a book... :)

Best wishes!

Dien

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikePT (Post 42977)
Pros,

What has been your experience and results on Storytelling VS Reason-Why copy?

For what I study, Storytelling can be super powerful. However it takes a top notch skill to do it.

And in particular on selling information, what is your experience/thoughts?

Your thoughts and experiences?

Thanks!

MikePT


Dien Rice June 2, 2022 03:14 PM

Humor in copy...
 
Hi Mike,

I thought I'd add a comment on humor in copy...

There are many places you can find people saying that there is NO place for humor in copy.

A famous saying is...

"Don't use humor. There is nothing funny about separating a man from his money."

https://web.archive.org/web/20040614...m/3/stein4.asp

But I want to say... Au contraire, mes amis!

("On the contrary, my friends!" See how talented I am... That high school French has finally come in handy... ;) )

The right kind of humor is a great way of achieving rapport... and getting your prospect to like you.

Robert Cialdini has his six principles in Influence (and I think he added one more)... One of them is "Liking."

If people like you, they're more likely to wanna do business with you...

Okay, I'm off of my soap box for now... :)

Toodles*

Dien

* "Toodles" is a British way of saying sayonara... :)


Quote:

Originally Posted by Dien Rice (Post 42978)
Hi Mike,

I tend to focus on writing the kind of promos I like to read myself...!

So, what I like to do is to make sure I give value... I like the idea that someone can read one of my promotions, and still benefit, even if they don't buy...

I'm not saying you have to do it this way - many people don't...

However, I seem to have a very low "unsubscribe" rate on my email lists... I think that's because I try to give value with every email...

Because of unsubscribes, you have to give value with your emails. However, another "formula" I know that others use is to give value in some emails, and have pure "sales" copy in other emails...

Often I give value by telling stories that people can benefit from...

By the way, I'm not sure if you should write emails just for the sake of writing emails.

I'm on the email list of one copywriter, who emails every day. Often, they're about something that happened to him that day... which is often something that doesn't seem all that important to me...

The problem is, I don't find all those emails valuable... So I find I'm reading his emails less and less.

On the other hand, there are other copywriters / marketers whose emails I always look forward to...

Personally, that's what I aim for!

I think you always need to give a "reason why"... It seems crazy to me not to have one! But you can easily have both a story, and a "reason why"...

It's harder to write a story, admittedly. But... the good thing is you can accumulate an "archive" of your stories, which you can then use in other places... Like on social media, if you choose to. Or, if the stories are good enough, you can even compile it into a book... :)

Best wishes!

Dien


MikePT June 3, 2022 07:03 AM

Re: Storytelling VS Reason-Why Copy What Is Your Experience And Thoughts?
 
Thanks Dien,

Interesting website you shared.

And that idea of used humor to go against the tie, to stand out is a good idea without any doubt.

Dien Rice June 3, 2022 02:50 PM

More on using humor...
 
Hi Mike,

I've noticed there are now a few people advocating humor in online or direct response copy... (Though I think they're still by far the minority!)

One thing to be wary of (mentioned in the article I linked to), I believe is...

Don't offend your reader!

That means you have to know your reader!

As... one thing which would be acceptable to one group, will be offensive to another group...

Or... you can just be like Canadian comedic duo, Bowser & Blue... and throw caution to the wind...

They originally wrote this song for the American Society of Colon and Rectal Surgeons' Annual General Meeting in Montreal!

I apologize in advance!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y055Z8E7UAo

- Dien

P.S. For non-native English speakers... the song is full of double-entendres...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikePT (Post 42980)
Thanks Dien,

Interesting website you shared.

And that idea of used humor to go against the tie, to stand out is a good idea without any doubt.


Glenn June 3, 2022 04:14 PM

DON*T READ This Funny *Reason-Why-StoryTelling* Post
 
Thanks Dien,

Don't Laugh.

A Recycling Story -

I Threw a 5 Gallon Bucket at a Giant Raccoon Last Night.

I Toss Soup Cans in a Bucket - until it gets full.

Then Crush and Recycle them.

But Mr Raccoon Must Have Smelled The Leftover Soup in The Cans. CRASHED the Bucket on it's Side. Woke Me Up.

Yelling Didn't Work.

So I Threw an empty Bucket. Hit him with a 5 Gallon Bucket.

THE REASON WHY I TOLD YOU THIS STORY?

To Make You Laugh.

So You are In a Good Mood to Hear An Equally WEIRD "Recycling Story."

It Turns Out...

***Insurance Sales Questions Are Recycled & Used By Porn Directors.***

Got Proof.

VIP Client #1 - Tells Me About a Record Setting 181 Million Insurance Sale Using
ONE QUESTION.

I shared It with My Top 1% of My Top 20% VIP INSIDER List.

VIP Client #2 - Sends me ***a Link*** with a Note. "Hey Glenn, This Porn
Director Used YOUR SAME Insurance Sales Question on a Starlet. Crazy, huh?"

A - Wrote a Sales Letter with The STORY.

B - Turns out Billionaires on our WATCH LIST are using Versions of The SAME QUESTION in Their Sales offers and Videos.

C - Stuck 20 Case Studies into the ORDER FORM.

D - SO as Not to OFFEND Anyone - I held The 3 Video Examples Back
Until Buyers ASKED for them. Sent Separately.

Thanks,
Glenn

P.S. - Even Though The "Actress" is dressed in Men's Suit and Tie for The BEHIND THE SCENES Interview. No Skin Showing.

You See MAGIC Happen.

AFTER Mr Director - Asks The 181 Million Question over and over FIVE TIMES. The "Actress"...

Goes From COLD to HOT.

Stonefaced to Animated.

And Shares Her FANTASY Of Posing Nude for "ART CLASSES."

DREAMY - EYED - She Dictates The Script.

Holding Up her Hands - to Show How The Various Parts of The Male Anatomy
Look when Viewed From Her Perch atop The "Art Platform."

SHEESH.

Hell-of-a-SalesVideo. Sold Her The Next Scene BEFORE she Shot The Current Scene.

P.P.S. - WON'T POST THE LINK HERE.

You Can Email me, However - To Get *Behind-The-Scenes Directors-Cut VIDEO LINK*
- at [email protected]

Subject Line - "SowPub - Behind-The-Scenes Directors-Cut VIDEO LINK*"

Glenn June 3, 2022 04:33 PM

BERSERK RESULTS In Email Test of 181 Million Question
 
Thanks Dien,

Turns OUT the 181 Million Question that set a Insurance Sales Question ALSO Works Good in Emails.

Pretty Amazing.

Ask ONE QUESTION in an email and You Get People who Go BONKERS with Their Reply.

Glenn

----------
Oh boy,

Here we go, fasten your seat belt and here we go...down the rabbit hole big time.

It may be genetic....

My Granddad on my Mom's side ran a big program teaching ghetto kids to operate a truck farm.

That was the Fairview Garden school, there's some remaining pictures and info online.

file:///C:/Users/User/Desktop/Old%20Desktop/Personal/Ed%20Mahoney
%20Fairview%20Garden%20School/Greene_Among%20School%20Gardens_0.pdf

file:///C:/Users/User/Desktop/Old%20Desktop/Personal/Ed%20Mahoney
%20Fairview%20Garden%20School/Livermore_School%20Gardens%20Fairview
%20Mahoney.pdf

It was started by the wealthy ladies in the area in the big push for what was then called "hygeine" which was basically a clean up your act on a lot of fronts, social, health, sanitation, etc.

That was early 1900s, the pandemic in 1920 killed him.

The entire family on that side ran a large nursery biz at that time.

My Mom grew up in that nursery biz and she was good about teaching me as many skills as possible, so I'm out digging in the dirt from a very young age and learning those skills.

My parents used to flip houses back then due to the necessity of my Dad changing jobs frequently (interesting story there for another day, involves origins of many sales and marketing ideas) and we were often out making gardens and doing landscaping to set the houses up for resale.

My Dad grew a big victory garden WW 2 era and often grew tomatos as a hobby. I remember that soil when we lived on on Timonium road was incredibly fertile, tomato plants half as high as the house.

Fast forward to the hippy-dippy days 60s/70s and I had a huge interest in the whole back to the land thing.

Wherever I was I was attempting to grow food.

The success level, as I look back now, depended on the fertility of where I was at the time. I was clueless on how to successfully amend the soil because I was following the early organic preachings, which were wrong due to Rodale and friends not accounting for the fact they were working with almost perfect soil in PA and what worked there often (usually) did not apply elsewhere.

New England soil was the best. It was much like what Rodale and company had in PA. I worked for a septic tank company at the time , just adding the leftover dried sewage "fluff" (nitrogen) from the sewage treatment plant that I knew carefully analysed everything that came in, so nothing evil in it. That grew some awesome veggies...and pot plants.

Moving to FL in the mid 70s presented a whole new challenge...trying to garden in sand with almost zero nutrients.

I can now appreciate that situation in that huge mistakes are quickly erased as the mistake just washes right through the sand. The biggest mistake was applying compost that had the herbicides that never die in it and losing all my gardens for a couple years. It would have taken way longer to recover in a different soil and those years without in the ground gardens I learned a ton about growing in containers.

My first suggestion to anyone evaluating land for growing stuff, or seeing what they have, would be to look up the US soil survey info. Incredible amounts of info on what's under your feet in your little patch of ground.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifAmQybESUM&t=57s


From the 70s forward, always experimenting, always learning more.

I was friends with a lot of the old time farmers here and they taught me a ton about how things work here.

This was also a big illegal pot growing area and those growers were highly skilled.

Learned lots from them too.

Side note on that one, the big corporations have monopolized the now legal pot growing here but they're having huge fails that were easily preventable were they to consult some of those old growers.

Current projects are a mostly self sufficient hydroponic green house (almost there!) and turning my place into a food forest with all the perennial food plants, fruit and nut trees and shrubs I can fit onto this acre and a third.

OK, enough history, on to your questions.

Irrigation...

Had drip for years and it never worked right. Much experimenting got close, but still, not enough water.

I eventually went over to micro sprinklers and that works like a charm.

This is what I use:

For main lines -

1/2" Polyethylene Drip Irrigation Tubing 500' (.600" ID x .700" OD)

This stuff uses compression fittings you force/wiggle on to the tube, and unlike what the video says, you can re-use them by collapsing/folding the tube in the fitting with a screwdriver:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r130oCXCJA4&t=9s

https://www.amazon.com/One-Stop-Outd...N1/ref=sr_1_6?

You punch holes in the main lines to connect 1/4 inch tubing to lead up to the micro sprinklers using 1/4" fittings, the fittings are pushed into the hole until they pop in, pliers can help here :

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=.700+od+d...f=nb_sb_noss_2

I use a propane torch to slightly heat the 1/4" tube before trying to force it on to the fitting, then pop the fitting into the main tube. Makes it WAY easier.

I put the micro sprinklers on bamboo stakes. old 1/2" conduit , or whatever else I have to get them up higher than the plants.

These are the sprinklers, which screw into the end of the 1/4" tube:

https://www.amazon.com/Sparkfire-Ato...6/ref=sr_1_18?

http://www.amazon.com/MIXC-Distribut...9D/ref=sr_1_5?

You want to keep the 1/4" runs as short as possible.

With 35 - 40 psi water pressure this setup will water about 200' of the main lines in one run.

I put the sprinklers 8' apart, the sprinklers cover a 4' circle. This does leave some gaps where the circles intersect but I just run them long enough for the water to soak into those areas.

I like the DIG brand for the tubing and the rest of it whatever is cheapest.

Home Depot usually has all this too if you want to get it locally.

Now that I'm retired I switch zones on the irrigation manually every 2 hours because I never had good results relying on timers and valves, and they're expensive and fail too often.

---

Now....the best thing I learned very recently...

Sea salt foliar fed to the plants...and in hydroponic solution, which works really well with the above irrigation setup and a siphon mixer for the salt/fertilizer solution.

If you ever want to try this I'll write it all out to save you suffering through the learning curve. You have to do things like modify the siphon (Hozon brand, Hoss tools has them best price, and removing the backflow valve from it) and balance how many sprinklers to get good coverage because the siphon mixer cuts down the flow big time.

Stumbled into the history of a guy here who was growing tomatos commercially in sea water solution back in the 60s.

That's a long story for another time. That got me looking around on this but hugely hesitant due to my life long belief that salt just killed everything.

Boy, was that ever wrong.

I wouldn't even try the salt until I talked with a soil scientist I know and he convinced me it worked big time and he uses it in his personal gardens.

Here's all the info on the sea salt:

https://seaagri.com

I ran the salt in the hydro solution for the tomatos in the greenhouse last winter with almost unbelievable results...any disease could not get a foothold and the resulting produce was just delicious and a LOT of it.

Same great results for running through the micro sprayers to the beds in the ground.

What they say on their website is no bull****.

There are other people selling variations of this but these folks are the best and most economical.

This also ties in nicely to trying to have maximum nutrition in what I grow.

The taste of everything grown in the salt solution is also way, way above and beyond the usual. I gave tomatos to people who have grown gardens forever and they raved about them being the best tasting ever

Dien Rice June 4, 2022 02:29 PM

I can relate...
 
Thanks Glenn,

That was a very interesting history and account... I'm guessing that's from one of the replies you got to your question?

I grew up in the suburbs... But my Dad grew up on a farm, just outside of Coldwater, Michigan...

And he made some choices of where we lived in alignment with that.

My parents have unfortunately passed away, and I'm living in the last house I grew up in... After my Dad passed away (my Mom had passed away a few years earlier), I moved in...

The choice of where this property is located was determined by my Dad's experience of growing up on a farm...

I remember him telling us the occasional tale of their adventures, as kids, on Hog Creek, which ran through their farm in rural Michigan...

When it came to buying some land, my Dad chose a place in front of a creek too - Dandenong Creek... The creek is just on the other side of the fence of my back yard...

Like my Dad's adventures on Hog Creek, my brother and I had some cool adventures "exploring" Dandenong Creek when we were growing up...

There's native wildlife here. This being Australia, the wildlife is, of course, different from the wildlife in Michigan...

However, it's nice to sometimes hear the kookaburras "laughing" in the background during the day. Once, we had an echidna ("spiny anteater") walk across our yard...

I'm not much of a "green thumb," but I enjoy hearing about the adventures of those who are!

When I was still an undergrad student, I had a good friend who started to get into "permaculture"... That's where you try to design a garden where the plants support each other's growth, and you don't have to use pesticides... That's my understanding anyway!

I think the idea is to mimic a natural ecosystem...

Thanks for sharing, Glenn! Although I didn't grow up in the country, because of the influence of my Dad on me (who did grow up on a farm), I can relate to that response... :)

Best wishes,

Dien

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn (Post 42983)
Thanks Dien,

Turns OUT the 181 Million Question that set a Insurance Sales Question ALSO Works Good in Emails.

Pretty Amazing.

Ask ONE QUESTION in an email and You Get People who Go BONKERS with Their Reply.

Glenn

----------
Oh boy,

Here we go, fasten your seat belt and here we go...down the rabbit hole big time.

It may be genetic....

My Granddad on my Mom's side ran a big program teaching ghetto kids to operate a truck farm.

That was the Fairview Garden school, there's some remaining pictures and info online.

[...]


Dien Rice June 4, 2022 02:59 PM

It's funny...
 
Hi Glenn,

There are two people I mainly think of when I think of using humor to sell...

You're one of them!

I love your stories of using pink teddy bears and various crazy gifts and gizmos to make people laugh... :)

Best wishes!

Dien

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn (Post 42982)
Thanks Dien,

Don't Laugh.

A Recycling Story -

I Threw a 5 Gallon Bucket at a Giant Raccoon Last Night.

I Toss Soup Cans in a Bucket - until it gets full.

Then Crush and Recycle them.

But Mr Raccoon Must Have Smelled The Leftover Soup in The Cans. CRASHED the Bucket on it's Side. Woke Me Up.

Yelling Didn't Work.

So I Threw an empty Bucket. Hit him with a 5 Gallon Bucket.

THE REASON WHY I TOLD YOU THIS STORY?

To Make You Laugh.

So You are In a Good Mood to Hear An Equally WEIRD "Recycling Story."

It Turns Out...

***Insurance Sales Questions Are Recycled & Used By Porn Directors.***

Got Proof.

VIP Client #1 - Tells Me About a Record Setting 181 Million Insurance Sale Using
ONE QUESTION.

I shared It with My Top 1% of My Top 20% VIP INSIDER List.

VIP Client #2 - Sends me ***a Link*** with a Note. "Hey Glenn, This Porn
Director Used YOUR SAME Insurance Sales Question on a Starlet. Crazy, huh?"

A - Wrote a Sales Letter with The STORY.

B - Turns out Billionaires on our WATCH LIST are using Versions of The SAME QUESTION in Their Sales offers and Videos.

C - Stuck 20 Case Studies into the ORDER FORM.

D - SO as Not to OFFEND Anyone - I held The 3 Video Examples Back
Until Buyers ASKED for them. Sent Separately.

Thanks,
Glenn

P.S. - Even Though The "Actress" is dressed in Men's Suit and Tie for The BEHIND THE SCENES Interview. No Skin Showing.

You See MAGIC Happen.

AFTER Mr Director - Asks The 181 Million Question over and over FIVE TIMES. The "Actress"...

Goes From COLD to HOT.

Stonefaced to Animated.

And Shares Her FANTASY Of Posing Nude for "ART CLASSES."

DREAMY - EYED - She Dictates The Script.

Holding Up her Hands - to Show How The Various Parts of The Male Anatomy
Look when Viewed From Her Perch atop The "Art Platform."

SHEESH.

Hell-of-a-SalesVideo. Sold Her The Next Scene BEFORE she Shot The Current Scene.

P.P.S. - WON'T POST THE LINK HERE.

You Can Email me, However - To Get *Behind-The-Scenes Directors-Cut VIDEO LINK*
- at [email protected]

Subject Line - "SowPub - Behind-The-Scenes Directors-Cut VIDEO LINK*"



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