SOWPub Small Business Forums

SOWPub Small Business Forums (http://www.sowpub.com/forum/index.php)
-   SOWPub Business Forum (http://www.sowpub.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Chatteling Learning Path (http://www.sowpub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8279)

shelbyc September 5, 2012 12:38 PM

Chatteling Learning Path
 
Hey guys,

I was wondering if someone could point me in the direction of the best way to learn more about Chatteling.

I see Gordon has written at least two books on the subject "The Beginners Guide To Chatteling" and "The Chattel Report" both of which look like he gave master resell rights to several other people.

Who should I buy from and are there any different updates to these courses that aren't available through different vendors?

Is there still a hidden subforum about chatteling here at sowpub? If there is, is the only way to get access to purchase "The Chattel Report" through Sowpub?

I also see that Gordon recommended Skip Rossell's book on chatteling.

Will each of them add something different to my chatteling tool chest? Is there a best first purchase, second purchase and so on?

Thank you for your advice, and if this thread is inappropriate please let me know.

-Shelby

GordonJ September 5, 2012 03:44 PM

Yes, I NO longer own the rights to the Chatteling work.
 
Shelby,

I suggest you start with Skip's report. He has an easy way to find profitable chattel deals on auto-pilot.

But, just for fun and future reference, go to craigslist and go shopping using the minimum parameter at 4999 bux and the upper one at 9999...and see what comes up between these price ranges. Here is where you'll find those 1 to 3k deals or better.

THEN, if you really want an eye opener, plug in 25k to 49k.

And keep in mind, airplanes and big boats go for 6, 7 and 8 figures. Chatteling at the upperEST level.

Start small, work your way up if you want.

Not much too it really. Buy and then sell for a profit. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

Gordon


Quote:

Originally Posted by shelbyc (Post 31765)
Hey guys,

I was wondering if someone could point me in the direction of the best way to learn more about Chatteling.

I see Gordon has written at least two books on the subject "The Beginners Guide To Chatteling" and "The Chattel Report" both of which look like he gave master resell rights to several other people.

Who should I buy from and are there any different updates to these courses that aren't available through different vendors?

Is there still a hidden subforum about chatteling here at sowpub? If there is, is the only way to get access to purchase "The Chattel Report" through Sowpub?

I also see that Gordon recommended Skip Rossell's book on chatteling.

Will each of them add something different to my chatteling tool chest? Is there a best first purchase, second purchase and so on?

Thank you for your advice, and if this thread is inappropriate please let me know.

-Shelby


shelbyc September 5, 2012 07:35 PM

Re: Chatteling Learning Path
 
Thanks Gordon, I like auto-pilot :)

I thought it pretty much was that simple, I've been doing it since I was a little kid and didn't know it was called chatteling until I got here a few days ago.

To start with do you find it's better to reinvest all your profits or 50% back into buying chattel?

Also do you keep a profit and loss book on all your deals, or do the poor man's bookkeeping?

Dien Rice September 5, 2012 08:33 PM

Re: Chatteling Learning Path
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shelbyc (Post 31765)
I was wondering if someone could point me in the direction of the best way to learn more about Chatteling.

Hi Shelby,

I'll send you a message/email soon...

Meanwhile, for others who want to know, The Chattel Report is available from here... http://www.thechattelreport.com

Best wishes,

Dien

shelbyc September 5, 2012 08:39 PM

Skip Rossell Link Down
 
Hey Gordon,

I'd like to purchase through you but I get a not found page for your link:

http://www.doomgloombliss.com/skip.html

Please let me know when this is fixed.

-Shelby

shelbyc September 5, 2012 08:40 PM

Re: Chatteling Learning Path
 
Thanks Dien

Ankesh September 6, 2012 04:53 AM

My experience with international chatteling
 
Here are a few things I've learned while chatteling.

* I mainly deal in international chatteling. Buy in India or Asia. Sell to USA, UK, Canada, Australia and else where (Probably 85% of my sales come from those 4 countries).

* I spend 5-10 hours a week with 1 specific type of product. 70% of my time goes into packaging the goods for shipping. And filling out the customs forms. The rest of the time goes in customer support and answering questions to people via email. (I already have 2 sources to where to buy the product from now - so hardly any time goes into procuring the products. More about that later.)

* I make lower four figures net profit per month with this venture. Depends from month to month. Its just been a couple of months so I'm not yet sure of the variance in sales cycle due to the time of the year. But its a decent side project for the amount of time put in.

* (I won't be going into product details a lot - but the main criteria for selecting the product was: it had to be small enough to be shipped cheaply. But it still had to have a reasonable profit margin.)

* My sales price is 1.5x to 2x of the price at which I buy the product. I know folks like Ben Suarez and all recommend that your selling price should be 4x to 7x the cost price because advertising and paying to middlemen is expensive. But my product can't sustain those margins.

Because of this factor, I doubt if I can scale this side venture to a 7 figure project. I can only collect the low hanging fruit - sales that don't require a lot of advertising expense. Over time, I think I'll be able to increase my sale price to 3x the buying price. But thats about it. So at most, this will be a mid to high 4 figure per month project. Still awesome for the amount of time put in however.

* One advantage that I have that others don't: I have bank accounts in India as well as USA. I have companies incorporated in both countries too. Delaware incorporation is not that hard anymore thanks to the internet. (Although I had gone through a USA based lawyer. Costs more money but peace of mind.)

* How I got started: I was on a forum where some folks were complaining about a dealer who was late in shipping this product. (Keep an eye out for "problems.") I looked up if I could buy this product in India and at what price. Ebay, Alibaba, Google etc were my first place of research. But then followed up with a bit of calling.

I then made a post on the forum: if people were willing, I would ship the product at cost^ to them from India. But I would not offer any refunds or anything. Thats how I got my first few clients over the next few days. Thats how I learnt what shipping process is the best. And what packaging is sturdy.

^ In hindsight, offering to sell at cost publicly was a bad idea. I have to deal with so many people that ask me why can't I ship the products at cost to them anymore.

* The above bullet point is the most important lesson. Find buyers first. Don't procure the goods until you know for sure that you'll be able to sell it. You may not be able to do this with local chatteling, but in my case - I asked my clients to pay me before I went and bought the goods for them. I had absolutely zero risk when I began.

* Making more sales. 100% of my sales at this point come from 2 sources. 2 websites. I don't even have a website of my own for this product as of yet. I sell where a "hungry" crowd already hangs out. This way, no advertising expense. The venture takes as little time as possible. (I really don't want to make this a full time thing. 30 minutes a day on this is my goal.)

* Procuring the goods. It was research and calling and then haggling on price. I tested buying from 7 dealers. But I buy from only 2 of them as of now. I alternate between the 2 so that if something goes wrong with 1 of them, I don't have to close down. This is important: as Dan Kennedy says - one of anything will kill you. Always have backups.

* Storing the goods. Initially I went and bought the product only after I had received the payment from a client. Now however I keep a few orders worth of goods at hand. Keeps things smoother and doesn't slow down the shipping. Also gives me time to deal with a supplier situation without stopping sales coming in. You don't want to stick up a lot of money in inventory however. I think a weeks worth of products is a good idea - 7 days is more than enough to deal with supplier problems or finding a substitute supplier.

* What else. Escrow is good for international transactions. But it adds 10% to your cost.

* The downside to Escrow. Money remains stuck for 20 days or so (the time it takes for shipping). So you can't buy the goods with the money client pays. I had to "borrow" money from my other activities to not slow down my ability to buy and ship the products.

* Indian postal service is a pain. But its a pain that has to be dealt with because of no other better alternatives unfortunately.

* I constantly have to keep an eye on foreign exchange. This can suck big time. Forget about trying to time the forex market. Book your profits and worry about optimizing the business - not the forex trades.

Thats about it. Feel free to ask me questions - anything besides what product I sell.

Action Summary:

* Keep an eye out for problems.

* Then do the research and find out if you can solve that problem cheaply.

* Then make an offer to folks facing the problem: you will solve their problem at cost. Let them fund your learning curve. Get rid of any risk while starting out.

* Look out for problems with solutions with high profit margin. The lower the profit margin, the harder it is to scale up. Rule of thumb is 4x to 7x is required to scale up with advertising for most products. (Unless you're selling high end products like boats and planes.)

* If the profit margins are not much, then look out for places where hungry crowds already hang out. So that you don't have to put in the effort and expense for people to find you. But be aware that this model has a ceiling.

* Have backups in place - more than 1 source from where you can procure the goods.

* You will make mistakes. The trick is to minimize risk while starting out. And having money in the bank later on to help you deal with the mistakes.

* Buy low. Sell high. Sell first.

Dien Rice September 6, 2012 05:20 AM

Re: My experience with international chatteling
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ankesh (Post 31778)
Here are a few things I've learned while chatteling.

Thanks Ankesh for sharing that!

It's quite amazing that you can do so well... and with just 30 minutes a day, too!

By the way, I also wanted to compliment you on your new "Warrior Bulletin" website...

http://warriorbulletin.com

It's full of great business and marketing articles... It's well worth checking out. Great stuff! :)

Best wishes,

Dien

Ankesh September 6, 2012 05:48 AM

Re: My experience with international chatteling
 
Thanks Dien for mentioning http://warriorbulletin.com/ :)

I'll be getting a bit more aggressive with it this month.

As for international chatteling - I spend a bit more than 30 minutes a day on it as of now. About 8-10 hours a week. But my goal is to optimize things to spend only 30 minutes a day on it. Less than 4 hours.

Main issue is packaging - so will try and learn how that can be less time consuming. Or else just hire a student or something a bit down the line.

GordonJ September 6, 2012 10:30 AM

I think that was a short term deal for me, I can't remember.
 
Thanks, but get it directly from Skip, OK?

I coined the term "chatteling" back in the mid 90's and MY method is a Fly Low and Collect the Dough way of selling everyday mundane "parade of life" stuff which just keeps going and going.

Today, there are scores of way as evidenced by the many TV shows about Chatteling. American Pickers, Pawn shops, Storage Wars, Antique shows...

these are all ways of doing IT.

Skip and others like to look for certain stuff. I don't. There isn't a right or wrong way, it is what suits you.

I look at dollars, not things. It has been the hardest concept for most of the chattlers who have bought one of my reports to understand.

I think the Skip, with a list of THINGS to look for works better for most people.

It is easier, faster and you don't need to know very much.

I look for undervalued stuff. Also, 99.9% of people will not build their network of buyers.

IF you have buyers already lined up, it makes the whole thing easier because I know what to look for, but even then, I search strictly by dollars and seldom by items, Brand Names or that way.

Again, it is whatever suits you.

I do NOT operate a business, all of my formal businesses have been either sold or retired. I like to FLY LOW and Collect the Dough.

I shy away from licensed stuff, but do make exceptions if the profits are there.

The PROBLEM with chatteling for MOST people is it requires constant effort and especially if you look for things to sell, you may go days without a good deal, by looking at dollars instead, one can find good deals every day if they know they can "buy over there and sell over here" for a profit.

This is pretty much the condensed versions of all my chatteling works. Again, it ain't woodworking, so there is no need to make it complicated.

Gordon




Quote:

Originally Posted by shelbyc (Post 31775)
Hey Gordon,

I'd like to purchase through you but I get a not found page for your link:

http://www.doomgloombliss.com/skip.html

Please let me know when this is fixed.

-Shelby


shelbyc September 6, 2012 11:21 AM

Re: Chatteling Learning Path
 
Gordon,

Not a problem, I will pick it up directly.

How do you build a network of buyers? I know everyone is looking for something, but very few are looking for the same thing over and over again.

The main people looking for the same thing that I can think of are businesses and collectors, which would definitely put you in a continual good deal finding mode for them.

shelbyc September 6, 2012 11:27 AM

Re: My experience with international chatteling
 
Ankesh,

Thank you for taking the time to write all of that up, that is one wisdom packed post!

I too have shipped internationally and always found it a pain...

Since you are on this forum, and I am on this forum, have you found any problems people in India have that could be resolved with an agent in the U.S. and one in India? Wink, wink...

In case you didn't get the above would you like help sourcing any products in the U.S. for sale in India?

Thanks again Ankesh I really appreciate it!

GordonJ September 6, 2012 11:39 AM

There is a complete section on this in the Chattel Report the Sprint to Freedom
 
Go go google. Look for consignment. Look for bike shops. Look for collectors, look for music shops...

In EVERY town there are businesses who BUY stuff to sell. In fact a couple of successful franchises operate as chattelers, Play it Again Sports is part of a company with several recycle franchises, including GAMES and Clothing and they all BUY stuff and local versions often have consignment.

Watch guys, ephemera collectors, toys, MUSIC stores...a quick tour on Google will give you many people who could be part of your network of buyers, but it takes TIME, which most people won't do, to get to know them and know what they buy.


Why don't they do it themselves? Most do, on a limited basis, which is why if you
Buy OVER There, you can SELL over here.

A network of buyers is what makes chatteling so easy. And it is very similar to Jim Straw's MILLIONAIRE IN A YEAR course too.

BUYERS are the SELLERS. Again, 5 mins on google in those categories above will yield many buyers.

Gordon


Quote:

Originally Posted by shelbyc (Post 31785)
Gordon,

Not a problem, I will pick it up directly.

How do you build a network of buyers? I know everyone is looking for something, but very few are looking for the same thing over and over again.

The main people looking for the same thing that I can think of are businesses and collectors, which would definitely put you in a continual good deal finding mode for them.


shelbyc September 6, 2012 12:06 PM

Re: There is a complete section on this in the Chattel Report the Sprint to Freedom
 
Thanks Gordon, will do, now let's see if I can apply some of what I learned.

Ankesh September 6, 2012 12:53 PM

Re: My experience with international chatteling
 
There are quite a few products that do awesome in India. The problem is, I don't have the resources and the know-how to get them past customs over here.

Example: the iphone 5 thats going to be releasing next week. If it releases for $550 or $600 retail in USA, then in India - it will sell for Rs45000+... about ~$800 or more. And selling them requires no effort.

Laptops that sell for $300 and $400 during Thanks Giving weekend will sell in India for Rs60,000 or ~$1100.

But here is the rub: you can't buy and sell more than 1 iphone or 1 laptop. Because in India, you are exempt for only Rs25,000 worth of goods before you have to pay customs duty of 35-45% for electronics.

There are a few folks who do it on a larger scale, but they have contacts in customs offices and can get things through without paying duty - or at least paying duty on every item. Bribing is rampant in India. But I don't plan to get involved with things like that.

Can't think of products that can get through without customs issue... most non-electronic products are manufactured and available cheaper in India. (For eg: college textbooks that sell for $120 in USA cost ~$20 in India.)

But I'll keep my eyes open.

Fun profitable story: a friends uncle used to buy 2nd hand cranes from all over the world and import it to India. And then rented it out to construction companies for a couple of years before selling them. Made a lot of money. So I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of opportunities. Just not opportunities where I have the skills or the know-how to complete the deal.

shelbyc September 6, 2012 01:18 PM

Re: My experience with international chatteling
 
I understand, well if you need a personal iphone maybe I could help you out in finding one.

The crane is an interesting story, if you ever do want to attempt something like that they have auctioneers over here who specialize in heavy equipment, their name is Richie Brothers. The auctions are pretty fun to attend and I'm sure if we can arrange shipping and importation duties the pricing would allow a profit.

Just some food for thought, I'm not yet in the position to do so but if you find a buyer I could find a seller.

GordonJ September 6, 2012 05:24 PM

Duty and tariff free products for you Ankesh.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ankesh (Post 31791)

Can't think of products that can get through without customs issue...


OK, I'll give you a few ideas.

Back in 1965 I bought a book on YOGA. My mom went ballistic, thinking I was joining a cult or becoming a Buddhist or something showing how ignorant most Americans were about not only yoga, but about India in general let alone Buddha.

Today, Dave Letterman takes an hour each day to practice YOGA.

One of my favorite places to eat serves up traditional Tandoori Chicken.

The products you could easily export/import are...

IDEAS.

Or information. Or concepts. Or recipes.

All things IDEAS.

Traditional Indian FOLK medicines, not the medicines or herbs or teas, just the information.

You EXPORT your ideas, import ideas from around the world.

I just mentioned mushrooms. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that I've come across several FOLK medicines and teas from India regarding certain mushrooms.

Patterns for those beautiful Indian blouses, dresses and shirts.

How to make a tandoor oven
How to serve a traditional Indian Wedding Dinner sort of thing.

YOU, as an expert on USA, can import HOW TO.

Best American Colleges for Indian Students.
Places in the USA You Must See When You Visit.

Nothing like a first hand report from someone who's been there.

So, Ankesh, in my opinion you have untold products to EXPORT without paying a single cent in tribute, er, tariffs.

Selling IDEAS and perhaps IP, like software, might prove to be a way around some of that problem.

Gordon Alexander

Dien Rice September 6, 2012 06:13 PM

Re: My experience with international chatteling
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shelbyc (Post 31787)
Since you are on this forum, and I am on this forum, have you found any problems people in India have that could be resolved with an agent in the U.S. and one in India? Wink, wink...

Hi Shelby,

Here is a service which helps people in Australia buy and ship products from the USA...

http://www.priceusa.com.au

The problem it solves is that sometimes things are much cheaper in the USA than they are in Australia. Also, some things which are available in the USA just aren't available in Australia at all.

Furthermore, many US retailers won't ship many items to Australia (probably they figure it's too much hassle). For example, Amazon will happily ship books, CDs, etc. to Australia, but they generally won't ship toys, electronics, and so on.

Here's how it works...
  • What this service (Price USA) does is they have a person in Australia (I believe it was founded by an American who moved to Australia), and they also have an agent in the USA.
  • An Australian who wants to buy something from the USA, tells Price USA what they want to buy, along with a link, and other information if known (e.g. size and weight).
  • Price USA then gives the customer an estimate of the total cost (which includes a certain percentage added on as their profit), and asks the customer to pay a deposit.
  • Upon payment of the deposit, the Price USA agent in the USA will order the item, and have it shipped to himself/herself (within the US).
  • Upon receiving the item, Price USA can then give the customer a final quote (since now they definitely know the dimensions and weight, so they know exactly how much it will cost to ship, whereas earlier it was just their best estimate), and once the rest of the total amount is paid, they then re-ship the item to Australia, directly to the customer.
  • If the customer doesn't pay the final quote, Price USA keeps the deposit, and also can resell the item, e.g. on eBay, to recoup more of the cost.
There are others who do this kind of thing, too... I haven't extensively researched it for other countries, though.

I think there are no duties/tariff problems in Australia as long as the value of the shipment is under $1,000. (Once it is over $1,000, then you have to worry about duties/tariffs/taxes.) Not sure how it would work in other countries...

Best wishes,

Dien

shelbyc September 6, 2012 08:06 PM

Re: My experience with international chatteling
 
That's an awesome idea. I bet with Amazon Prime having free shipping on a ton of items your percentage cut doesn't have to be too much.

I love Sowpub, thanks for sharing!

Dien, did you get my PM?

shelbyc September 6, 2012 08:08 PM

Re: Chatteling Learning Path
 
Man Gordon, you're a one man band of ideas.

I love it!


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:58 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.