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-   -   There is no such thing as a "subconscious" mind. (http://www.sowpub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11268)

GordonJ June 25, 2022 10:40 AM

There is no such thing as a "subconscious" mind.
 
Ah, a debate.

But the reality of it is; it comes down to belief and opinion. Freud vs Jung. Is Psychology even a real science (another debate).

Many take the idea of a superior SUBconscious mind as gospel, without ever an examination of where their idea of it came from.

It is HUGGGE business, getting that independent subconscious to work for us and not against us...it has made people rich who have given us the secrets to HOW to make our masterful subconcious into our personal slave to do our bidding and execute our will.

No one has ever seen one. Those guys who dissected Einstein's brain, never came across his subconscious mind.

I've got a lot of this debate in SWITCHWORDS. And I usually fall on the side of PRACTICALITY and USEFULNESS.

HOW does making best use of the subconscious mind (if there is one) help ME, assit ME, make MY life better and those around me better too?

So, I tend not to take things at face value, and have to dive into rabbit holes that make the one Alice went down look like little gopher holes in the yard. I'm talking CAVE size rabbit holes of research into all things mind, mental, how the brain works, how the mind within the brain works, the many minds that we have...etc., etc.

And at the end of the day, for me, it has always been about practical, real life useful lessons. So many students stay down their rabbit holes and believe everything the Mad Hatter tells them without question.

And...they tend to be fanatical, or TRUE believers about how they are RIGHT and the rest of us wrong. They come up with a WAY. Their way.

Most of these become one size fits all clothing, and it is the foundation of cults, even if the followers don't see themselves as cult followers. In fact, most cult followers DON'T see themselves this way at all.

So, SWITCHWORDS.

As I understood what Mangan was asserting, the CONNECTION between the conscious and subconscious and how to JOIN them...

TOGETHER.

To effect rapid results, to expedite the cause/effect...to benefit from the Stimulus/Response idea in a personally profitable way; profiting the mind, body and spirit.

Meditation, guided visualization, hypnosis, self-hypnosis, NLP (to some extent) are all ways in which we bring the very loud and active conscious mind and the quiet always at work behind the scenes subconscious mind TOGETHER, in harmony to receive wonderful benfits.

SWITCHWORDS, can be an instant meditation.
They can be an instant hypnosis.
They can be an immediate shortcut to access the wealth of knowledge stored in our subconscious minds.

They CAN be. But most often they are not. Mainly because of faulty teaching, misunderstanding and blind acceptance to any given guru, god or Gordonesque type being.

Like with all things, where the head goes, the body follows.

I like to think after 62 years of field testing the whole idea of subconscious and SELF TRANSFORMATION, and all things self improvement and SELF ACCEPTANCE (PROBABLY more important for most)...that I have learned a thing or two about making all things...

Mind, mental, metaphysical...spiritual, self transformational...

and making them practical and useful in this lifetime.

Gordon

Your thoughts on the subject, always welcome.

Dien Rice June 26, 2022 08:12 AM

A few thoughts on the subconscious...
 
Hi Gordon,

Wow, a lot to process here!

I don't know a lot about Switchwords, but they do sound fascinating!

On the subconscious mind...

I DO believe in the subconscious mind...

When I ask myself why, the answer came back... phobias...

I think people have phobias that are often irrational...

So why do they have them? Something in the subconscious mind...

They may not know WHY they have the phobia... They just know that they do...

I suspect that, in many cases, it may be based on negative childhood experiences, that they may have since forgotton...

I know someone terrified of spiders. I mean really terrified.

But... a spider is so small. You can squash it with a boot.

She theorizes that she probably got it from her Mom... Her Mom would apparently panic when she saw a spider. And she thinks she learned, from that, that spiders are something to be afraid of...

It lodged in her subconscious mind, and now it's a hard reaction to remove...

I don't know - I ain't no shrink. Just some shared thoughts... :)

Best wishes,

Dien

P.S. I know you studied hypnosis... Doesn't that address the subconscious mind?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordonJ (Post 43055)
Ah, a debate.

But the reality of it is; it comes down to belief and opinion. Freud vs Jung. Is Psychology even a real science (another debate).

Many take the idea of a superior SUBconscious mind as gospel, without ever an examination of where their idea of it came from.

It is HUGGGE business, getting that independent subconscious to work for us and not against us...it has made people rich who have given us the secrets to HOW to make our masterful subconcious into our personal slave to do our bidding and execute our will.

No one has ever seen one. Those guys who dissected Einstein's brain, never came across his subconscious mind.

I've got a lot of this debate in SWITCHWORDS. And I usually fall on the side of PRACTICALITY and USEFULNESS.

HOW does making best use of the subconscious mind (if there is one) help ME, assit ME, make MY life better and those around me better too?

So, I tend not to take things at face value, and have to dive into rabbit holes that make the one Alice went down look like little gopher holes in the yard. I'm talking CAVE size rabbit holes of research into all things mind, mental, how the brain works, how the mind within the brain works, the many minds that we have...etc., etc.

And at the end of the day, for me, it has always been about practical, real life useful lessons. So many students stay down their rabbit holes and believe everything the Mad Hatter tells them without question.

And...they tend to be fanatical, or TRUE believers about how they are RIGHT and the rest of us wrong. They come up with a WAY. Their way.

Most of these become one size fits all clothing, and it is the foundation of cults, even if the followers don't see themselves as cult followers. In fact, most cult followers DON'T see themselves this way at all.

So, SWITCHWORDS.

As I understood what Mangan was asserting, the CONNECTION between the conscious and subconscious and how to JOIN them...

TOGETHER.

To effect rapid results, to expedite the cause/effect...to benefit from the Stimulus/Response idea in a personally profitable way; profiting the mind, body and spirit.

Meditation, guided visualization, hypnosis, self-hypnosis, NLP (to some extent) are all ways in which we bring the very loud and active conscious mind and the quiet always at work behind the scenes subconscious mind TOGETHER, in harmony to receive wonderful benfits.

SWITCHWORDS, can be an instant meditation.
They can be an instant hypnosis.
They can be an immediate shortcut to access the wealth of knowledge stored in our subconscious minds.

They CAN be. But most often they are not. Mainly because of faulty teaching, misunderstanding and blind acceptance to any given guru, god or Gordonesque type being.

Like with all things, where the head goes, the body follows.

I like to think after 62 years of field testing the whole idea of subconscious and SELF TRANSFORMATION, and all things self improvement and SELF ACCEPTANCE (PROBABLY more important for most)...that I have learned a thing or two about making all things...

Mind, mental, metaphysical...spiritual, self transformational...

and making them practical and useful in this lifetime.

Gordon

Your thoughts on the subject, always welcome.


GordonJ June 26, 2022 11:22 AM

I willingly bought into the idea of the subconscious at 15, when I met hypnotherapist
 
.Fran Renner.

I've told the story of our meeting, and her mentorship during my high school days, and I would say, it was mostly about the subconscious mind.

So, I have a strong bias, a personal belief about it, that I only want in the conversation as an acknowledgement. It is what I BELIEVE.

And all practical and useful applications in the attempt to make it work for me, are strictly anecdotal.

Here is the best, in my opinion, definition of it:

The subconscious is the part of our minds that makes decisions without our needing to actively think about them. It's different from the conscious mind, which encompasses the thoughts we know we are having at any given moment.

It makes decisions. Without our conscious awareness of those.

Now we know about automatic body functions, and all that, we don't have to think about how to hold a pencil once we've learned how.

What happened over the years, from the days of Freud and Jung, was an expansion of, and a need for knowing/controlling all of the hidden functions of the mind...like the spider phobia.

Where the bulk of the HOW TO landed was on the side of how to influence the subconscious or how to ACCESS it, being all unawares and all.

So, first we have to be aware of it. Then acknowledge its mystery, secrets and perhaps library of memories, both personal and collective...

And then learn how to benefit from the influence or awareness.

In therapy, it is more like digging for coal, and one has to sift through a lot of sludge and slurry to get to the useable part. And that is not only why therapy takes so long, but is also so lucrative for the THERAPIST.

Then, there is the INSTANT crowd, ala Tony Robbins, who claim to be able to break phobias in one session, as he has repeatedly demonstrated in his seminars.

So, the trained therapist may need years to break the phobia, because they dig down into the mineshaft of lost memories, especially the traumatic, and emerge with the coal they can then burn.

In self hypnosis, there are at least two camps. One is a trance must be entered into, the other, no trance necessary.

For the record, I fall into the latter, I don't think one has to be in a measured trance state in order to place suggestions (the tool for extracting the coal{to mine that metaphor to a firery extinction})

And when I started working with SWITCHWORDS, circa 1973, I had already had nearly a decade of trying to suggest to my subconscious mind it should be my ally, not a foe.

MORE, don't want to lose what I've written.

So back in 1966, with my portable 17 pound cassette tape recorder, I listened to COUNT TEN tapes, with a voice that first got me into a relaxed state of mind, by focusing on the the countdown, voice, etc.

Then planting the suggestions. And then coming out of that state of mind, not really knowing at the time, if a trance state had been entered...and some believe THETA wave state, at 4 to 7.5Hz (and this has to do with Personal Psychic Enegy too, as per our discussion on crystals and RF, etc.) is THE trance state.

Although, my purposeful and useful studies, outside in the real world, not in a lab or controlled environment...have shown me there isn't an absolute truth about trances, states of mind, suggestion and all.

Be it a Milton Erickson light touch on the hand to a Glenn Osborn big red nose, it is relatively easy to distract the conscious mind, and get the RAS on stand down, and create an instant state of mind, with the same effects PRACTICALLY, as if one were in a trance.

See?

Which brings us to SWITCHWORDS. Mangan posited that the best way to get to that cooperative state of mind, with the conscious and subconscious minds working together, could be accomplished with a throwing of a switch...

much like turning on a light...

And that by using single words or combinations, one could effectively get the subconscious to perform just as if it were in a deep trance state or one that had been entered for years.

It takes training, and understanding, which is why all the most readily available infor is pablamatic BS, spoon feeding the babes of the world, while taking their money from them...

by offering up SWITCHWORDS as either a magickal or mystical phenomenon or as a way to instant wealth, fame and glory.

They are POWERful, only if you know their purpose, and believe if the conscious and subconscious minds, working in-synch is more powerful than just will and conscious decision making alone,

THEN, there is an amazingly wonder power in using them and taking the time to train yourself how.

But it is NOT the way 98% of the work on the subject says, that is just selling hope to soap buyer, they thinking their bar has the gold nugget in it.

NOPE. It don't. It is a lump of lignite coal, ready to burn another hole in their pocketbook.

Gordon



Quote:

Originally Posted by Dien Rice (Post 43056)
Hi Gordon,

Wow, a lot to process here!

I don't know a lot about Switchwords, but they do sound fascinating!

On the subconscious mind...

I DO believe in the subconscious mind...

When I ask myself why, the answer came back... phobias...

I think people have phobias that are often irrational...

So why do they have them? Something in the subconscious mind...

They may not know WHY they have the phobia... They just know that they do...

I suspect that, in many cases, it may be based on negative childhood experiences, that they may have since forgotton...

I know someone terrified of spiders. I mean really terrified.

But... a spider is so small. You can squash it with a boot.

She theorizes that she probably got it from her Mom... Her Mom would apparently panic when she saw a spider. And she thinks she learned, from that, that spiders are something to be afraid of...

It lodged in her subconscious mind, and now it's a hard reaction to remove...

I don't know - I ain't no shrink. Just some shared thoughts... :)

Best wishes,

Dien

P.S. I know you studied hypnosis... Doesn't that address the subconscious mind?



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