SOWPub Small Business Forums

SOWPub Small Business Forums (http://www.sowpub.com/forum/index.php)
-   SOWPub Business Forum (http://www.sowpub.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Does Facebook advertising "work"? (http://www.sowpub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8127)

Dien Rice May 21, 2012 12:39 PM

Does Facebook advertising "work"?
 
I just read this interesting article... About a guy who spent 160 Euros (just over $200 US dollars) to market his packaging business on Facebook, and got...

...2 clicks to his website!

(That's a cost of about $100 per click.)

I haven't advertised on Facebook myself, but know a couple other people who have also advertised, who told me they got poor results (one runs an online game).

Have you heard of any success stories with paid marketing on Facebook? (That is, paying for ads...)

I suspect the Facebook advertising model will never be as successful, for people who actually track the results, as the Google "Adwords" model (and other similar, search engine-based advertising)...

Oh, here's the article I referred to earlier...

I put my family business on Facebook. Here’s what happened.
http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/colu...what-happened/

Best wishes,

Dien

Phil May 21, 2012 02:52 PM

Re: Does Facebook advertising "work"?
 
Dien,

Lots to Learn on Just About ''Everything'' these Days...

Too Much Sometimes to ''Absorb'' and Use so Why Not Just Give it Away!

I Find Simply By Playing Around With Focused KeyWORDS, Questions, How To's, Tutorials, Help, Advice, Research Says, Experts on, Expertise about, Case Studies, Etc. Etc...

Because of The Current Growing Over-Load of Information...

An {Extremely Hot Money Making Trend} is RIPE for Development in & on Very Specialized subjects and Topics! ...

Piles of Good ol' Monies & Revenues Are and Will Continue to be Made Extremely Nicely Throughout our LifeTimes...

Some Have Become Very SuccessFull throughout the Web Doing it in the Last Few Years and it's Only Getting Bigger and Of Course Much More Competitive...

But Still Nicely Untapped...

Because of The Current Growing Over-Load of Information...

Some like Yourself are Probably well Aware, others, Maybe Not So Much...

I'm sure Sure it'll Be [Hitting] SowPubs, in the Very Near Future... :)

Definitely other Engines Are Well into It! ... ;)

The FREE Global BRAIN is Truly Never Ending...

Quick Example(s) regarding FACEBOOK related ''ADVERTISING''...
https://www.google.com/search?q=Face...ient=firefox-a
https://www.google.com/search?q=Face...ient=firefox-a
https://www.google.com/search?q=Face...ient=firefox-a

Phil

Jimbo13 May 21, 2012 04:15 PM

Re: Does Facebook advertising "work"?
 
Hello there Dien

I am new to this forum; more of a learner than an educator when it comes to what is discussed here.

I was just reading this in the copywriting section on WF that one of the guys put up.

**Okay scrap that, I can't post links as I have not written 10 times yet.**

FB click through rate averages at 0.05 or 1 in 2000 for ads.

Maybe that is why GM pulled their advertising?

Dan

Dien Rice May 21, 2012 04:34 PM

Re: Does Facebook advertising "work"?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbo13 (Post 30919)
Hello there Dien

I am new to this forum; more of a learner than an educator when it comes to what is discussed here.

I was just reading this in the copywriting section on WF that one of the guys put up.

**Okay scrap that, I can't post links as I have not written 10 times yet.**

FB click through rate averages at 0.05 or 1 in 2000 for ads.

Maybe that is why GM pulled their advertising?

Hi Dan,

First, sorry about the "link" thing... I just removed the restriction, so there should be no problem posting links now... (I put the restriction up to battle spam - but we seem to have a pretty good handle on it nowadays!)

Thanks for that... Wow, a .05% clickthrough rate is awful!

It may be that Facebook advertising may work for some things... Like things that people would be "fans" of (such as sports teams)... However, for smaller businesses, or more "mundane" businesses, perhaps it just doesn't work...

To my understanding, it's also a less direct process. You have to create a Facebook page for your business... Your advertising gets people to "like" your business Facebook page. Only from your Facebook page, then, can people click through to your web page which is outside of Facebook.

For many people, getting people to go to your website is where the "money" is, since people can't order your product from within Facebook itself, only if they go outside of Facebook to your web page. Of course, of the people who "like" your Facebook page, only a tiny fraction will ever click on the link to go to your own website... That's my understanding of how it works, anyway...

Thanks for the further information...!

Best wishes,

Dien

Jimbo13 May 21, 2012 04:41 PM

Re: Does Facebook advertising "work"?
 
Thanks Dien

Here is the link to the page from Business Insider.

http://www.businessinsider.com/data-...#ixzz1vWL6BZGs

Keep up the good work on this forum Dien. I appreciate it.

Dan

Eva May 21, 2012 09:34 PM

Re: Does Facebook advertising "work"?
 
I gave up on Facebook years ago. I'm semi not so social and to spend a couple of hours on a daily basis in exchange for no return, forget it.

However, these days there are smarter ways to utilize FB and no, have not tried that. Advertising FB on your website is a must, getting likes and forcing people to like it in exchange for something of value to them, seems to work. Still, not my choice of spending time.

It's all a combination of everything though and having a biz fan page can't hurt.

Eva

Ankesh May 22, 2012 02:46 AM

Re: Does Facebook advertising "work"?
 
Most people don't advertise on Facebook correctly.

Facebook is good for 2 types of advertising.

1. To build a stronger bond with people who already know of you. If you are well known, you can run a campaign to get people to like / join your FB page. However, when you are unknown and you try to do this - you'll make losses. (Unless you turn scammy and trick people. Eg: Someone selling tennis shoes running an ad that says: Like if you like Roger Federer.)

2. To find people who like your competition. And let them know about you. Eg: if someone has liked Pizza Hut - and you show them your local pizza parlor ad - would you see a good conversion rate? Most likely - yes.

So Facebook works only if you are already popular. Or have competitors who are popular.

The second issue with Facebook is - people don't have a purchasing intent while they are on Facebook. On Google, people search for what they are looking for. On Facebook - people come across your ad before they want your product. Sometimes - this may be weeks before they need you - sometimes it could be months before they need you. Depending on your product life cycle.

Eg: If you sell beds on Facebook - and on average, people buy a new bed only once in 10 years - a 3 month campaign on Facebook is not going to increase your sales dramatically.

So you have to realize that while Google is like Yellow pages, Facebook is like radio advertising. People won't have buying intent. But it still works if you take a long term view and are smart with it.

I'm surprised to know that a wine seller and a game developer's ads on facebook bombed. Did they run an ad to get people to like their facebook pages? Or did they run the 2nd type of ads - showing your ad to people who like your competition - and get them to come visit your website?

My educated guess is that they may have run the first kind of an ad campaign - getting others to like their facebook pages - when they themselves weren't popular...

Dien Rice May 22, 2012 01:42 PM

Thanks Ankesh... That's an amazing post...!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ankesh (Post 30923)
Most people don't advertise on Facebook correctly.

Facebook is good for 2 types of advertising.

1. To build a stronger bond with people who already know of you. If you are well known, you can run a campaign to get people to like / join your FB page. However, when you are unknown and you try to do this - you'll make losses. (Unless you turn scammy and trick people. Eg: Someone selling tennis shoes running an ad that says: Like if you like Roger Federer.)

2. To find people who like your competition. And let them know about you. Eg: if someone has liked Pizza Hut - and you show them your local pizza parlor ad - would you see a good conversion rate? Most likely - yes.

So Facebook works only if you are already popular. Or have competitors who are popular.

The second issue with Facebook is - people don't have a purchasing intent while they are on Facebook. On Google, people search for what they are looking for. On Facebook - people come across your ad before they want your product. Sometimes - this may be weeks before they need you - sometimes it could be months before they need you. Depending on your product life cycle.

Eg: If you sell beds on Facebook - and on average, people buy a new bed only once in 10 years - a 3 month campaign on Facebook is not going to increase your sales dramatically.

So you have to realize that while Google is like Yellow pages, Facebook is like radio advertising. People won't have buying intent. But it still works if you take a long term view and are smart with it.

I'm surprised to know that a wine seller and a game developer's ads on facebook bombed. Did they run an ad to get people to like their facebook pages? Or did they run the 2nd type of ads - showing your ad to people who like your competition - and get them to come visit your website?

My educated guess is that they may have run the first kind of an ad campaign - getting others to like their facebook pages - when they themselves weren't popular...

Thanks Ankesh!

That's a terrific post! I've never read this, about how Facebook marketing is quite "different" - and the different approach you need to take... (And also the specific type of business you need to be...)

I think the people I mentioned were treating it more like you would Google Adwords search-engine-based type advertising...

Thank you, Ankesh, for sharing your insights. It's truly inspirational...!

Best wishes,

Dien

Dien Rice May 22, 2012 02:57 PM

Re: Does Facebook advertising "work"?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbo13 (Post 30921)
Thanks Dien

Here is the link to the page from Business Insider.

http://www.businessinsider.com/data-...#ixzz1vWL6BZGs

Keep up the good work on this forum Dien. I appreciate it.

Thanks Dan - that's a great article!

I also liked the graphic which was linked to in that article, too...

I could be wrong, but after reading this, and also Ankesh's post, I'm getting the "vibe" that Facebook may be good for "branding", but not really for "direct-response"-type advertising...

I'll ponder that further... :)

Best wishes,

Dien

Marshall George May 22, 2012 04:07 PM

Re: Does Facebook advertising "work"?
 
I have a different point of view.

In my opinion, Facebook is not as effective as radio advertising,
Why?

Because the cost per contact is far more expensive in Facebook,
than in the most popular and effective radio anywhere.

Let’s take the Southern California radio market for example...

You can advertise in KISS fm (number one or two in the SOCAL market all the time) Advertisements on this radio station are estimated to be $1,000 for a 30 second commercial,

(Note: Individual radio station rates are not readily available. Estimates are based on regional averages and may be very inaccurate.)

KISS fm can reach an incredible number of people. Arbitron latest report shows that an average of 4,014,300 people tuned in for at least five minutes each week.

This a minimum, most people listen to their favorite radio station more than 5 minutes each week.

That’s huge potential reach for a total of (for example) 12 ads x $1,000= $12,000 / 4,000,000 listeners

That’s 30 cents of dollar per contact!!

In my opinion, Facebook is NO radio advertising, not even close…

That’s why the IPO is tanking…GM bailed out already and stopped all Facebook ads, other companies are planning to do the same.

My two cents,

Marshall

Ankesh May 22, 2012 04:26 PM

Re: Does Facebook advertising "work"?
 
Thanks Marshall.

There is an advertising saying that goes something like: Do you want to persuade 100% of the people 10% of the way? Or 10% of the people 100% of the way?

Optimizing your radio ad spend based on the number of people you can reach is just wasting your money. Because you need to reach people multiple times on radio - to have an impact and make them remember your brand when they require your services weeks down the line. You don't want to reach 100% of the people and persuade them just 10% of the way. Per person frequency is more important than population reach with radio advertising.

Anyways... Facebook is like radio advertising because:

i. People who listen to radio don't have that buying intent. They are not actually looking for any solution to a particular problem.

ii. You have to take a long term view with radio. You have to create a strategy based on your "product purchase cycle". Or you will fail.

But saying that - you are correct. Facebook is a new beast. Its similar to radio. But not same as radio.

i. On Facebook - you will have to change your creatives very often. Because stale creatives start receiving lower CTR. And Facebook stops running ads with low CTR. So its not like radio where you can keep on running the same ad and anchor your sales proposition / brand name in peoples minds.

ii. Facebook allows laser focusing. You can narrow down the demographics down to the city, age, marital status. You can focus based on interests. And if they like your competitors. No other ad medium allows such filtering of your audience base.

Everyone who has managed to make money with banner ads before has made money with Facebook ads. Treat facebook as a banner ad platform - with vastly better targeting - and you'll do fine.

Just don't give up on Facebook because GM gave up on it or because its stock price decreased. It can work in getting you some decent traffic often times at a lower cost than Google adwords.

Marshall George May 22, 2012 05:40 PM

Why Discussion Boards sometimes fail to keep people around...
 
Hello,

I gave a detailed response about real life advertising work
in Southern California. One, if not the biggest market in the world
for radio advertising.

I make a very successful living in California
promoting services to local audiences
using a variety of advertising tools...including
radio.

For over 27 years!

Now, my factual report about the local ad market
has been dismissed almost entirely, because I dared
to propose a different point of view!

Please, let's try to learn from each other instead
of running to defend our opinions.

Best,

Marshall

PS I will not respond to any other unsubstantiated opinion.
Let's bring in facts, evidence, and figures.

Dien Rice May 22, 2012 07:29 PM

Re: Does Facebook advertising "work"?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall George (Post 30926)
I have a different point of view.

In my opinion, Facebook is not as effective as radio advertising,
Why?

Because the cost per contact is far more expensive in Facebook,
than in the most popular and effective radio anywhere.

Thanks Marshall for sharing your expertise regarding radio advertising...

There's no doubt that much radio advertising is very effective! I recently read that radio advertising can be very effective in driving people to websites (as well as to physical stores, too, of course)...

One local business I know pretty much ONLY advertises on radio. I'm sure if their local radio ads weren't bringing people in through the door (or to their website, which they also advertise) - they wouldn't keep advertising on radio, year after year after year...

I'm still getting my head around Facebook...

Thanks for your very informative contribution!

Best wishes,

Dien

Marshall George May 22, 2012 09:21 PM

Last year we used Facebook ads until...
 
we gave up!

$300 a day, for 3 months. We are talking about
$27,000. What was the net return? Close to zero,

As soon as we got enough revenues to cover
the losses, we bailed out.

Granted, I work with some medium size companies,
$1M to $3M a year in revenues, but still
I keep an eye on expenditures,

After all, as a marketing guy, I can't keep pouring
money when we are getting "likes" only...

In my opinion, Facebook is partying away money,
not a proven method of advertising.

I encourage anybody to post a Facebook
successful case study, with facts and figures.

They are hard to find...for a reason.

Thanks a lot,

Marshall

Ankesh May 23, 2012 02:44 AM

Re: Why Discussion Boards sometimes fail to keep people around...
 
Thanks Marshall.

I apologize if you thought I was dismissive. I was merely trying to convey what I learnt from Roy H. Williams about radio advertising.

http://www.mondaymorningmemo.com/page/grossratingpoints

Roy H. Williams writes for Radio Ink and teaches courses on running profitable radio ads.

...

All of the points on Facebook are from my own experience. People over here know that I dabble a lot with online advertising. Its not merely opinion.

Here is how I run Facebook ads. Take what you want from it.

1. Before starting a Facebook ad campaign, do research on Google Ad planner and Google Insights. Get the demographics of your audience.

2. While starting out - Don't go for Like campaigns. Go for External URLs. (There are some situations with which you could go for a Like campaign for your Facebook page. But you need to create a custom tab that makes a direct offer. Something like "Like us and get a discount coupon.")

3. Start a campaign and test it on an audience of 20,000. Focus only on one city or one state. Focus based on Precise Interest. The only time you would want to use Broad Interest is if you want to advertise to people who are just engaged or just married or have just moved. But otherwise, stick to Precise Interest.

Eg: for a campaign on crossfit training, don't run the ad for all of USA. Run it only in Washington and Texas. (Google Insights shows people from those 2 states search the most on crossfit.) Select ages 35-44 (because Google Ad planner shows that thats the audience for crossfit.com.) If your ad works with such narrow filters, you can than expand and create more ads.

Why test with $300 when you can test with $20? Test cheaply.

4. When you start seeing a drop in your CTR - change your creatives.

5. Constantly split test. Your headline. Your creatives. Your targeting.

Steve MacLellan May 23, 2012 12:04 PM

Re: Does Facebook advertising "work"?
 
I don't know if it works or not, but a man I have a lot of respect for says:

Quote:

Facebook advertising is nothing short of revolutionary. There has never been any medium that gives you access to as much user provided data about how people actually behave. Over 900 million people have eagerly listed — in the finest detail — what they like, what they dislike and what they are absolutely passionate about.

The implication for businesses of all sizes is staggering. Now you can advertise directly to real people based on what they've self-identified as their deepest interests, behaviors, hobbies, dreams and desires. Quite simply, there has never been an opportunity similar to this in the history of marketing.


I'm talking about Bob Serling. Obviously he has had some luck with it. So much so... that he is offering a program on it called "The Facebook Alchemy
Certified Consultant Program".

I'm thinking there must be something to it, if it's done the right way.

Regards,
Steve MacLellan

sandalwood May 23, 2012 01:24 PM

Re: Does Facebook advertising "work"?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve MacLellan (Post 30935)
I don't know if it works or not, but a man I have a lot of respect for says:



I'm talking about Bob Serling. Obviously he has had some luck with it. So much so... that he is offering a program on it called "The Facebook Alchemy
Certified Consultant Program".

I'm thinking there must be something to it, if it's done the right way.

Regards,
Steve MacLellan


I don't about becoming a certified consultant as I haven't checked into his program. But, I would bet becoming a CC involves big $$$. On the other hand if one simply reads the post by Ankesh, one could get a good idea of how to go about becoming a non-CC but yet still get pretty good results.

Just a guess but I'd also guess every guru and his brother has a FB certification program for only $$$$$ and your old recappable tires. I base that on being solicited by several of them.

Tom

Phil May 24, 2012 04:12 AM

The Big List : 150 Facebook Pages Campaigns Case Studies | Wise ... Mince Meat?
 
Just wondering a little...

As the Old Saying goes...

Regarding Mince Meat? ... And Chopped Liver...

Then Again, maybe I'm the Only one who Knows of that Saying and meaning(s)... :D

Some here Seem to be Interested in Successful case studies, with Facts and Figures...

But does Anyone... Really?

Actually, Read and Dig into information Provided or perhaps, Quality resources within Google are Not Accepted as A TRUSTED Source these days unless their is a Personal Connection to that Experience overall... :)

Just wondering as per my above post, Quick research regarding misc. Facebook Case Studies etc. etc...

Especially the Link regarding...

The Big List : 150 Facebook Pages Campaigns Case Studies | Wise ...
(link in my above post in case anyone Might be interested)... :rolleyes:

Just Wondering if it's Only personal experience(s) that Make Case Study material Worthwhile here on SowPubs...

No use posting If there's Not Much interest If you Know what I'm saying...

Thanks! ... Appreciate the Feedback as Always...

Good and Bad! ... Always Feel Free To Speak Your Mind...

That way, We all Learn a thing or 2 Along the way!

Life overall, really is An ongoing ''LEARNING EXPERIENCE'' each and every Single day, whether we like it or Not...

Phil

Dien Rice July 13, 2012 10:45 PM

"Likes" from fake accounts - and ads on Facebook...
 
I came across another article...

This article says that one of the problems with advertising on Facebook is all the false accounts. Many of the "likes" to your Facebook page may come from
false (or at least dubious) accounts!

Facebook 'likes' and adverts' value doubted
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18813237

- Dien

rampsam July 15, 2012 04:28 AM

Re: Does Facebook advertising "work"?
 
It does work provided that you know How to advertise. First off, you should know who your target market is and should able to learn their terms and tricks. Also there are some coupons available for facebook ads, use them for your advantage and experiments.

rampsam July 15, 2012 04:33 AM

Re: "Likes" from fake accounts - and ads on Facebook...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dien Rice (Post 31383)
I came across another article...

This article says that one of the problems with advertising on Facebook is all the false accounts. Many of the "likes" to your Facebook page may come from
false (or at least dubious) accounts!

Facebook 'likes' and adverts' value doubted
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18813237

- Dien


Just curious to know. What is the benefit of liking from fake accounts? User engagement is what matters the most and it will be definitely reduced a lot in fake accounts, isn't?

Dien Rice July 15, 2012 04:12 PM

Re: "Likes" from fake accounts - and ads on Facebook...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rampsam (Post 31398)
Just curious to know. What is the benefit of liking from fake accounts? User engagement is what matters the most and it will be definitely reduced a lot in fake accounts, isn't?

As the article says...

'"Spammers and malware authors can mass-produce false Facebook profiles to help them spread dangerous links and spam, and trick people into befriending them," he said.'

- Dien

Charliebee July 17, 2012 08:37 PM

Re: "Likes" from fake accounts - and ads on Facebook...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dien Rice (Post 31405)
As the article says...

'"Spammers and malware authors can mass-produce false Facebook profiles to help them spread dangerous links and spam, and trick people into befriending them," he said.'

- Dien

Many folks think of fb the same way Betty White does - "it is a big waste of time" but many companies have turned to fb as a way to capture user data to use their website. You know, you have to give your fb name in order to get in to find out more about their company. I personally have a bogus fb account to use in this instance.

LJWalker September 7, 2012 07:26 AM

Re: Does Facebook advertising "work"?
 
Thanks for taking the time to post these, it's refreshing to read a thread and get given both the good points and the bad points about a certain aspect rather than just opinions that are personal and do nothing to try and help out any readers!

cash4notes September 7, 2012 05:38 PM

Re: Does Facebook advertising "work"?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dien Rice (Post 30913)
I just read this interesting article... About a guy who spent 160 Euros (just over $200 US dollars) to market his packaging business on Facebook, and got...

...2 clicks to his website!

(That's a cost of about $100 per click.)

I haven't advertised on Facebook myself, but know a couple other people who have also advertised, who told me they got poor results (one runs an online game).

Have you heard of any success stories with paid marketing on Facebook? (That is, paying for ads...)

I suspect the Facebook advertising model will never be as successful, for people who actually track the results, as the Google "Adwords" model (and other similar, search engine-based advertising)...

Oh, here's the article I referred to earlier...

I put my family business on Facebook. Here’s what happened.
http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/colu...what-happened/

Best wishes,



Dien

For local FB rocks!

i have worked with 6 local business and it flat out
works, IF you buy right and track things properly.

FB will flat out rip you off if you are not tracking
where your clicks are coming from.

For the month of Aug for of my clients FB states that we got
over 2100 clicks on our ads. Yet only about 110 or so hit our
site(for tracking when our ads are clicked on from FB they are
sent to our site when this is done FB lets the person know they
are leaving FB. On the missing traffic as soon as they leave this
warning from FB the traffic never shows up @ the site! Human
beings can't move that fast. Bots however can.

Buying the traffic correctly will put you way ahead of the game
we buy for 4 cents a click! If you listen to FB we should be paying
almost 60 cents a click. At those number we would lose our shirt.

It is kinda like someone offering you a dinner for $100.
FB: This dinner cost $100
ME: Well i don't want to pay $100
ME: What happens if i pay $10
FB: Well... You still get dinner
ME: Check ok?


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:48 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.