What's your take on this re privacy issues?
 

Hi all

We run www.energyreview.net, a news service for the energy industry.

People find us by various means and the usual way into a subscription is to take a 1 month free trial of the service. At the end of the trial period, if there's a phone number to call, we call them, otherwise it's an email conversation.

Now, we try to capture as much information as we can about someone who signs up for a trial. If they come from Google, say, then we are able to capture precisely what it was they were looking for when they found us. Seems to me to be highly valuable information.

Here's the thing - we're then able to contact someone and say "we know that you found us by looking for blah blah blah on Google. Let us help you find more on that topic in our archives". It's just responding to a precise need - the essence of selling.

Now one of a number of things can happen here, but here's two of them:

They can say "hey great, thanks for the help", and may or may not sigh up for the service.

or

Some may say "how dare you record this information". Now I happen to think that there are quite a few privacy-issue complainers out there who need to get a life, but it is BOUND to upset some!

So what to do - use it or not?

Looking forward to any responses.

Thanks

Philip


EnergyReview.net

Re: complainers
 

> Here's the thing - we're then able to
> contact someone and say "we know that
> you found us by looking for blah blah blah
> on Google. Let us help you find more on that
> topic in our archives".

Philip,

Why do you need to tell them how you learned what they're interested in? I know I would be totally freaked out if someone came up to me in the supermarket and said, "We know you went straight for the pasta shelves when you walked in today. Would you be interested in a book of Italian cooking recipes or a new sauce we have?"

You could simply give them a special offer tied to their apparent interest.

Marcia Yudkin


Customized month-by-month marketing plan tells you how to grow your business

Invasion!
 

Hi:

Tracking a referrer page is one thing...capturing the actual search string is quite another.

I would consider it an invasion, and in the back of my mind would wonder what other information you covertly gleaned from my computer...it would be enough for me to not have any further dealings with your business or site.

This is a great example of the types of info a computer gives up from trusting and unsuspecting surfers...this should be a wakeup call to members to take security steps necessary to protect themselves.

Cornell

Here's a real quick security test you can use
 

A few years back I placed this online so people could test their browser security.

Seeing Cornell's message prompted me to put it back online. It's a little dated but you may still find it useful.

Click the link below to test your browser's security.


Browser security test

Re: complainers
 

Hi Marcia

What I was saying was very much a "for instance". We're in the business of providing news and information. We know from our subscribers that they like to be led to information they are interested in, and we show them how to find it in the archives. Now If I know that a person looks on Google for a company - say "Hardman Resources", then I KNOW they are likely to want to take a look in our archives for all of the articles on that company. And most of them would be grateful that I HAD pointed them towards that information - that's the irony!

All I'm trying to do is explore ways to use that information to point that prospective person towards more of what they're looking for and hence hopefully generate some business out of that relationship.

Life's never easy is it? :-) I think if the roles were reversed and I were looking for information, I'd be happy if someone said - hey over here there's more of what it appears you want. Save me a whole pile of time! But on the whole I'm a lot more laid back than many. I couldn't give a toot if someone knows I'm looking for a press release about some oil deal or another:-)

Best

Philip

> Philip,

> Why do you need to tell them how you learned
> what they're interested in? I know I would
> be totally freaked out if someone came up to
> me in the supermarket and said, "We
> know you went straight for the pasta shelves
> when you walked in today. Would you be
> interested in a book of Italian cooking
> recipes or a new sauce we have?"

> You could simply give them a special offer
> tied to their apparent interest.

> Marcia Yudkin

Re: Invasion!
 

Hi

Thanks for your thoughts.

Isn't it a shame in this jolly old world of ours that the same information is used for good and bad?

Yes we check what sort of browser people are using, so that we can make sure our site is visible and valuable to the most people.

Yes we like to know what they are looking for so that we can give them more of what they want.

Yes we want to track the way they navigate through our site, so that we can make sure they aren't getting lost.

All positives, yes? Isn't that the essence of selling and customer relations - making their experience with us better and more valuable for THEM?

As I said, it's a shame that we're fighting the do-badders in this whole thing, and the end result is that in our (reasonable) attempts to protect our privacy, we're necessarily missing out on so much. We end up insulating ourselves from both the bad AND the good. Don't know the solution.

Oh well, all food for thought:-)

Best

Philip

> Hi:

> Tracking a referrer page is one
> thing...capturing the actual search string
> is quite another.

> I would consider it an invasion, and in the
> back of my mind would wonder what other
> information you covertly gleaned from my
> computer...it would be enough for me to not
> have any further dealings with your business
> or site.

> This is a great example of the types of info
> a computer gives up from trusting and
> unsuspecting surfers...this should be a
> wakeup call to members to take security
> steps necessary to protect themselves.

> Cornell

Never use yourself as a gauge!
 

Philip,

It's really dangerous in business to use your own personal reactions to something as a guideline to how other people think.

I think you were on the right track to ask for others' opinions. It's a little hard sometimes to accept the validity of someone else's reaction, but this is an important part of pleasing many types of customers and not alienating them needlessly.

Best wishes,
Marcia Yudkin


Here's how to get an objective opinion on your site.. if you're open to it

IT's called priciple and you are missing it -->
 

> Isn't it a shame in this jolly old world of
> ours that the same information is used for
> good and bad?

NO - it boils down to how you obtain the information....up front by asking the person, or covertly without them knowing.

Spying and secretly recording a persons moves and then saying it is in their best interest is akin to the Big Brother scenario of chipping everybody so the government knows your every move.

Hmmmm...let's take a similar scenario...away from computers, but that could happen from covert info gathering....

In your sexual activity you use a certain brand of prophylactics. One day you open your mail and see a fantastic special sale on just your brand. Great news....you're happy and order. But how did they know what you preferred...would you be happy to know that they had invaded your home, your privacy, with technology to explore and perhaps even watch your sexual habits to get the information?

I don't think you or any one else would be too pleased about it.

Nothing wrong with giving your customers what they want, but it is the principle of how you go about it.

Use the appropriate software to let your viewers personalize your site to their needs...let them tell you what they want and then provide it.

I would hazzard a guess that if I marketed a similar site to your user list and quoted to them the methods you use, by your own admission here, that your user list would shrink by at least 90%.

> Yes we check what sort of browser people are
> using, so that we can make sure our site is
> visible and valuable to the most people.

No justificsation for this...This isn't really necessary info....if your designer is doing his/her job properly he/she would check the pages in all the browsers, on all the platforms, to make sure it was displaying properly.

> Yes we like to know what they are looking
> for so that we can give them more of what
> they want.

Then do it properly...ask them...don't invade their privacy by spying on them.

> Yes we want to track the way they navigate
> through our site, so that we can make sure
> they aren't getting lost.

Nothing wrong with that...this is expected.

> As I said, it's a shame that we're fighting
> the do-badders in this whole thing,

Unless I am mistaken, you have just admitted that YOU are one of the do-badders that we have to protect ourselves from.

> Don't know the solution.

Sure you do...give your viewers what they want but go about it in the proper way - with ethics.

Cornell

Re: IT's called priciple and you are missing it -->
 

After reading this thread, I am not sure everyone is speaking the same language here. Seems that Philip is drilling down into the log files that most any web site keeps. Is that a problem? The logs are freely acknowledged. All the data is there about you. Conversely, is it possible to track my cereal preference and customise an offer for me? Probably. Just compare the supermarket register file with my debit card.
All that is being mentioned is a way to more closely target specific niches. If you know (from your log file) a few people type a very specific search term related to a product you sell, then you would probably build one or more pages related to that search term.
In fact I would only semi customise the information I used to target the customer. I would prepare some faq files, 3 or 4 versions, that cover the most requested areas. I'd decide which one to send people based on the information I knew about them.

Re: Never use yourself as a gauge!
 

Yep, that's exactly swhat I WAS doing - asking for some feedback in case I DID do something wrong.

Shame some people have to be so damned rude and accusatory (not you!) when they don't even know me!

Cheers

Philip

> Philip,

> It's really dangerous in business to use
> your own personal reactions to something as
> a guideline to how other people think.

> I think you were on the right track to ask
> for others' opinions. It's a little hard
> sometimes to accept the validity of someone
> else's reaction, but this is an important
> part of pleasing many types of customers and
> not alienating them needlessly.

> Best wishes,
> Marcia Yudkin