Robert Allen Apparently In Serious Condition
 

I don't know how many of you know or know of Robert Allen but he wrote the original "Nothing Down" book in the 1980s. Many of today's nothing down real estate investing techniques are based on concepts he wrote about over 20 years ago. He has since gone on to create fortunes for himself and others as a successful information marketer. His latest book was co-authored with Mark Victor Hansen (of "Chicken Soup for the Soul" fame).

I just heard that Robert was in an accident and is in intensive care in the San Diego area. I will attempt to confirm this with his organization.

Please keep him in your thoughts and prayers.

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

Re: Robert Allen Apparently In Serious Condition
 

Hi Rick,

Thank you for posting that.... There's some great business and investment information in Robert Allen's books. His latest book, "The One Minute Millionaire" (written with Mark Victor Hansen) has also been highly recommended to me.... (Though I haven't read it yet.)

I pray that he will have a quick and complete recovery....

- Dien Rice

Re: The REAL Robert G. Allen
 

Hey folks -

I am truly sorry about Mr. Allens injuries - I hope he will be okay and have a complete recovery.

That said, I think it my personal responsibility to inform anyone on this board how he is viewed by REAL real estate investors - further to show his actual record that few are aware of...

(Btw, please don't think this as "bashing a guy while he's down" - I write this simply because I thought people on this board knew better than to follow the advice of charlatins)

Go to this site and scroll down to Robert G. Allen (the page takes a while to load - please be patient):


Robert Allen and other "so called" experts

Re: The REAL Robert G. Allen
 

Anonymous -

(Not sure why you didn't post your name but whatever)

> That said, I think it my personal
> responsibility to inform anyone on this
> board how he is viewed by REAL real estate
> investors - further to show his actual
> record that few are aware of...

> (Btw, please don't think this as
> "bashing a guy while he's down" -
> I write this simply because I thought people
> on this board knew better than to follow the
> advice of charlatins)

Ah, yes. Good old John T. Reed. Have you ever noticed how Mr. Reed is the self-chosen "lone voice in the wilderness" thumping his chest and proclaiming that he does not recommend 95% of the "gurus"? I don't want to spend a lot of time dwelling on this. We've discussed Mr. Reed here in the past. But let's examine Mr. Reed's position in all of this. Does Mr. Reed stand to profit by bashing others? As a matter of fact, he does. It seems Mr. Reed sells his own real estate information. So he bashes others to get you to buy his information. Kinda makes his motives suspect, doesn't it?

I can't speak to all of the details about Mr. Allen. I don't know him personally and have not researched them. However, I do know this. Mr. Allen is not making his bankruptcy a secret. He comes right out and says it in his latest materials. Both he and Mark Victor Hansen readily admit that they have both been bankrupt.

One other point about Mr. Reed. Ron LeGrand is among the many people he bashes. I have met a number of people using Ron LeGrand's techniques to legally do quite well for themselves. Ron LeGrand's techniques are based on those of Robert Allen. Ron LeGrand himself says it was a Robert Allen seminar that got him started. There is *nothing* illegal that I can see about the no money down techniques taught by Ron LeGrand or his mentor, Robert Allen. Are there people who have gone to jail for taking advantage of people by twisting these techniques? You better believe it. William McCorkle was one of the most famous cases. And there were others. It's just like anything else. You can make of it what you will. To further make the point, Gary Halbert once went to prison because he didn't deliver on his promises. Does that make direct marketing illegal? Of course not.

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

Re: Robert Allen Apparently In Serious Condition
 

Dien -

> Thank you for posting that.... There's some
> great business and investment information in
> Robert Allen's books. His latest book,
> "The One Minute Millionaire"
> (written with Mark Victor Hansen) has also
> been highly recommended to me.... (Though I
> haven't read it yet.)

I agree. I have many of them. I think my favorite is "The One Minute Millionaire." I have made a number of personal commitments to carry out the principles taught in that book. See your e-mail for more information. I'll explain more there.

> I pray that he will have a quick and
> complete recovery....

As do I.

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

Re: The REAL Robert G. Allen
 

Rick,

I still can't understand why you bash Reed's arguments?

Who cares what his motivations are, if his arguments hold water???

As for Robert Allen and Legrand... I have nothing against charging exhorbitant fees if you're delivering something that no one else in the market is delivering and if what you're teaching is on the up and up. But when there are many other players in the field offering better products at cheaper prices, then basically what you're left with is somebody who takes advantage of the newbie and the inexperienced.

Re: The REAL Robert G. Allen
 

Adam -

> I still can't understand why you bash Reed's
> arguments?

I'm *not* bashing Reed's arguments. Quite frankly, as I said in my previous post, I don't know if they're valid or not since I haven't researched them. I'm questioning his motives.

> Who cares what his motivations are, if his
> arguments hold water???

I care. I think it's wrong for him to sit there appearing as some self-acclaimed, self-righteous bag of wind spouting how bad everyone else is when the truth of the matter is, it appears he really wants to sell his own material. For me, it comes under the heading of something I learned in grammar school. "Don't tear others down just to make yourself look good." Now maybe, in reality, Reed is a nice guy but he doesn't come off looking that way to me.

> As for Robert Allen and Legrand... I have
> nothing against charging exhorbitant fees if
> you're delivering something that no one else
> in the market is delivering and if what
> you're teaching is on the up and up.

I have found *nothing* in either one of their teachings that indicate they are *not* on the up and up. When they started they were pretty much the only games in town. Believe me, I think the price of the information from most of these guys is *waaaaay* too high. But we (me included) are still buying it. This stuff (real estate investing, info marketing, etc.) must be selling like hot cakes because they keep coming out with more of it.

> But when there are many other players in the
> field offering better products at cheaper
> prices

Being an info junkie myself, (Ask Gordon. He's seen my bookshelves. (g) ), I'd be more than happy to hear about other players offering better products at cheaper prices. I'm serious. I know who most (if not all) of the RE info marketers are but I would be interested to see which ones you know about in case I missed some. For one, I think Pete Egeler has an interesting idea with FSBOs and I'd like to learn more about it.

> then basically what you're left with
> is somebody who takes advantage of the
> newbie and the inexperienced.

I disagree with you on this one. While LeGrand does get plenty of newbies into his pipeline, I know of *many* full time RE investors who are doing quite well who own everything he produces, have gone to every one of his seminars, etc. He has a number of items that go *well* beyond the newbie level. And as you can well imagine, the cost of this goes into the *tens of thousands*.
Is someone taken advantage of if they buy the material, put it to work, and profit from it? Not IMO.

On a different note, I took a look at your RE site. I liked what I saw. Just out of curiosity, if you wouldn't mind telling me, which RE "guru" (so to speak) was/is your mentor?

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

Re: The REAL Robert G. Allen
 

Adam -

To judge an ice skating competition, would you be suspicious if the Russian skaters were on the panel that judges the American skaters ... or visa versa?

That questions, of course, answers itself.

Whether he is right or wrong, this is the inherent problem with John T. Reed's evaluations of his competitors.

Robert Campbell




Timing the Real Estate Market

Re: The REAL Robert G. Allen
 

Robert,

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!
:)

Granted, I don't see eye-to-eye with all of Reed's evaluations, but being judged by one's peers is the halmark of a mature and professional industry.

Ask my opinion about other dog trainers and I will be brutally frank with you about which ones are good and which are not. And most of them aren't.

I think it's petty to suggest that simply because I happen to sell dog training info. products, that I have to sit quietly while others in my industry con and misinform the public.

- Adam.

P.S. Yes, I know... Reed isn't ALWAYS right. But most of his stuff is on the mark.

P.P.S. Buy


Robert's book... I've been reading his RE opinions and his book is at the top of my TO ORDER list.

Re: The REAL Robert G. Allen
 

> Adam -

> I'm *not* bashing Reed's arguments.

Okay, you're saying that he bashes others to sell his products. I don't see him bashing anyone to sell his products. But in suggesting that he does, it seems like you're bashing him. Guess it's a matter of perspective, huh?

> I care. I think it's wrong for him to sit
> there appearing as some self-acclaimed,

>>Why is he self-acclaimed? The guy is Harvard educated and he's worked in the RE industry. He isn't self-acclaimed. He's posting on his own web site. It's not like he's posting his opinions on someone else's web site.

> self-righteous bag of wind

>> Rick, you're bashing again.

>spouting how bad
> everyone else is

>> Now you're bashing and distorting.

>when the truth of the
> matter is, it appears he really wants to
> sell his own material.

>> Yes, he wants to sell his own material. He doesn't hide this. It's a commercial web site. He points out misinformation and then says "Buy this, instead... it's better. Or, don't buy my stuff, but buy one of these other guy's stuff (the recommended gurus). I don't see anything wrong with this. What IS wrong is when gurus paint a rosey picture of investing and fail to adequately cover the risks and potential pitfalls.

>For me, it comes
> under the heading of something I learned in
> grammar school. "Don't tear others down
> just to make yourself look good."

>>Not for me. For me it comes down to: Don't sit quiet and watch while others sell potentially dangerous information to your market.

>Now
> maybe, in reality, Reed is a nice guy but he
> doesn't come off looking that way to me.

>>I guess it's just a matter of perception. To me, he's an old-style investor but with good intentions.

> I have found *nothing* in either one of
> their teachings that indicate they are *not*
> on the up and up. When they started they
> were pretty much the only games in town.

>>This isn't true. (Please see next post).

> Believe me, I think the price of the
> information from most of these guys is
> *waaaaay* too high. But we (me included) are
> still buying it. This stuff (real estate
> investing, info marketing, etc.) must be
> selling like hot cakes because they keep
> coming out with more of it.

>>Just because it's selling like hotcakes doesn't mean it makes for a wise investment. William J. McCorkle sold a lot of crap, too.

Please see next post.
> Being an info junkie myself, (Ask Gordon.
> He's seen my bookshelves. (g) ), I'd be more
> than happy to hear about other players
> offering better products at cheaper prices.
> I'm serious. I know who most (if not all) of
> the RE info marketers are but I would be
> interested to see which ones you know about
> in case I missed some. For one, I think Pete
> Egeler has an interesting idea with FSBOs
> and I'd like to learn more about it.

> I disagree with you on this one. While
> LeGrand does get plenty of newbies into his
> pipeline, I know of *many* full time RE
> investors who are doing quite well who own
> everything he produces, have gone to every
> one of his seminars, etc. He has a number of
> items that go *well* beyond the newbie
> level. And as you can well imagine, the cost
> of this goes into the *tens of thousands*.
> Is someone taken advantage of if they buy
> the material, put it to work, and profit
> from it? Not IMO.

> On a different note, I took a look at your
> RE site. I liked what I saw. Just out of
> curiosity, if you wouldn't mind telling me,
> which RE "guru" (so to speak)
> was/is your mentor?

> Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"