> Michael,

> Again, I want to say I appreciate your
> honest opinion.

You're welcome.

> Has anyone published
> a newbies guide to forum eticate, so we
> don't make complete fools of ourselves?

Maybe. Maybe not. Either way. Netiquette things are ignored. Just look at the NO BLATANT ADS at the top of the forum and how many people post Blatant Ads.

On this forum they get nuked pretty quick. ON other forums they hang around forever. The forum eventually turning into an Ad Board.

> OK, Please allow me to clarify, as I
> absolutely despise mis-understandings.

Good. We like clarifying here.

> OK, so I gave the total wrong impression
> here. The simple truth is: the last two
> isp's I had were less than adequate for
> about $20US. I signed up mostly for the
> actual service, much more so than the
> biz-op. Just the isp would have only been
> $13US, but for the same as I was paying for
> lame service, I could get the whole package.
> I really wasn't after the free hosting,
> website, biz-op; I just figured why not try
> it out 'cause I'm spending the 20 anyway.
> Before, I spend any $ on anything anymore, I
> try and research them on several good
> boards. This was no exception, as I don't
> want yet another lame isp, and the last
> thing I want to be associated with is
> another mlm scam. The results of my board
> search was a little puzzling, can't say I
> quite understand it yet. This isp
> company/biz-op was distinctly absent from
> most forums! I'd still like to know why.
> Maybe the word just hadn't gotten out yet,
> or what? If it was a scam or bad service,
> you'd think there would be negative feedback
> out there somewhere.

Realize that some negative feedback is by competition or morons. Some people just cannot be communicated with no matter how hard someone tries. And some people will complain in public when things are their fault and before the business in question is even made aware of the problem.

> I did find it on one of the biggest
> marketing boards, and again, nothing
> negative. On the contrary, the Admin and a
> lot of his associates appear to have jumped
> on it.

> So because I needed a new isp, got more for
> the same money, and found no bad news, I
> signed up.
> It's still new to me and just because I have
> an affiliate site does not mean I don't
> welcome opinions on this company.

Again, I
> wanted the service. Free hosting, site,
> biz-op were just a bonus I thought it
> wouldn't hurt to try out. I did not realize
> it would kill all credibility of my posts,
> because I see very few with no link.

There are those of us who post often and link infrequently. Others link all over the place.

You know what observation reveals?

The people who link the most have the shortest posts. And, their posts are of questionable value, or of questionable sincerety.

My personal take on posting is:

If you ask a question you do not provide a link.

If you answer a question with a proper answer, you can leave a link as your reward.

Was I
> really a jerk to think that maybe someone
> would want a good isp for $13 when AOL
> (lame?) is twice that?

Nope. You're not a jerk for thinking that. You're not a jerk for anything you think.

Do I really have to
> post with no link to get answers?

See my personal take on that.

Generally, the answer is no.

It is not the act of linking that is the problem. (clarity to follow further)

Should I
> discount all your good posts, (and many
> other's), because you are
> "selling" Great Ideas at the
> bottom of your posts? I think not.

Again, see MY two rules to linking.

OK, so
> there is a fine line here, what are the
> guidelines? No blatent ads. Anything else?

The usual... No ****, No Get Rich Quick crap, etc.

> Sorry this was mis-interpeted as well. I
> know that the best places to hide can be
> right out in the open, but I'm not so stupid
> to post that just to get names. I meant that
> until my sites on organic farming/gardening
> and healthy lifesyle info/recipes are up and
> running, since it is Spring (up here), that
> anyone wanting advice would be welcome to
> contact me for free help. Yes, I would end
> up with their email, but honestly, I did not
> even think of that when I wrote it. It was
> just an offer for free advice and to get
> aquainted with folks of like interest.

Sure. No problem. Just realize the perception created by your post...

You ASK a question and then OFFER something via email.

That part would have been perceived differently if it had been an offer to POST more info on the board.

> (I thought it was rude or
> "spammish" to email directly to
> someone from a board, if they did not OK or
> invite it. Is this correct?)

It depends on WHY you are emailing them.

To offer something for sale, then yes, it is wrong. To offer assistance free, then no.

For example, if you see me post a question about organic carrots and you have an answer not already written on the board you have two choices...

1: Post it on the board (even with a link to your related product)

2: Email the info directly to me.

Posts and emails which are really ads - or disguised ads - are a no no.

> I see posts quite
> often that offer no real solid advice or ask
> a brief, generic question, and even a newbie
> can see the excuse to post thier link. I
> know countless ones must get deleted, but
> lots do get posted. I hope my reply above
> cleared most of this up.

Yeah. It did.

> Of course it's my affiliate link, I don't
> see anyone else posting someone else's or
> the corp. without thier's. Does that mean I
> absolutely can't get anyone's opinion? If it
> really is a good deal and I left my
> affiliate off, I could miss some sales.

It's not the link itself. It's the Context in which the link was used.

You asked for opinions about something you had already made your mind up on.

It wasn't as if it was something you were thinking of joining and the link was to the main corp site. Then, that would have been viewed as a legitimate question.

No
> one can be forced to sign up and I don't get
> any benefits from browsers so what is the
> harm? (other than appearing to stoop to
> trickery and ruining my credibility, both of
> which I would like to avoid).

You answered your own question.

If you looked
> and didn't sign-up, what did I benefit other
> than the chance to have your veteran opinion
> (I would rather have that anyway).

Be careful where you go with this logic. You could say the same of **** spam... where the harm if you don't open the email and go to the site.

If it
> happened to be something worthwhile that you
> hadn't heard about yet, am I a jerk for
> telling you about it?

Again, this is a spammers logic.... "what is so wrong about emailing your Cheap Computer Deal to 20 million people who have computers. If it's worthwhile, am I a jerk for telling you about it."

So I already joined, I
> still wanted your opinion. IMHO (not worth
> much in this department as a newbie), the
> corp site is not bad, but it is a far
> contrast to the marketing copy I see written
> by all you veteran marketers out there.

When most people ask for opinions on things, it is because they are still in the decision making process and will ad the opinion to that process. Not after they have made the decision and joined.

You can clarify it all you like. I'm just telling you how it comes across... people who ask opinions of things they have already joined is a typical MLM and online trick and any post that does that is viewed accordingly.

> The SOUL PURPOSE of my post was to ask about
> making my own "mini-site"/gateway
> page/portal page (I haven't learned all the
> terminology yet) that would introduce and
> sell or pre-sell, hook, whatever before they
> are forwarded on to the isp site. And how to
> set up the first small mini site for the
> organics & health subjects.

Fine. Then that is what was needed to be focused on.

Think of asking in person...

Would you go up to someone and say, "I need your help. How do I do this and this and that? And here is my card it has a great business opportunity do you want to know more?"

You would not think of doing it in person, and yet that is what you post come across as.

I thought
> something with some great copy,
> testimonials, offer for a freebie or two,
> newsletter offer, notices of my other sites
> or products, would be the way to get
> started. Isn't this what I see all you
> master marketers doing? Maybe I'm wrong
> here, but the isp site just doesn't ring
> with killer copy. Now that I think about it,
> they probably avoided hypey-killer copy to
> sound more professional & business-like.
> Where do you draw the line between hype copy
> that sells and sounding like a pitch-man?
> I also wanted a small, quick site to offer
> newsletter sign-ups for the organic farm and
> health sites, so that I had something to
> offer and start building interest until I
> get enough content for the main sites.
> AND, how to do this on a very limited
> budget?

More comments to follow...

> Yes, definitely, and I really can't tell you
> how much I appreciated your valuable time
> and opinions. Not just Michael, but everyone
> out there. I've always told my son: you can
> learn something from everyone, some good
> some bad, the challenge is how much value to
> put on each source. So thank you all for
> your advice, sorry I came across wrong and
> missed out on a lot of it.

> Didn't mean to come across as pushing the
> biz-op.
> It was my first online attempt at writing a
> catchy little phrase to get people to click.
> It was kind of exciting to have something to
> put at the bottom, just wanted to get my
> feet wet. Had no idea that it would create
> such a backfire.

Again, it was not the title of the link. It was the WAY the link was used.

PS here a biz op.

Understand?

> How much difference would it have made if I
> hadn't been asking about starting on a very
> low budget?

> Biz-op aside, it is offering a real quality
> isp service for half what AOL users are
> paying for lame service plastered with ads.
> All those people leaving AOL & MSN need
> a decent isp. I would rather and will soon
> be offering things in my areas of expertise.
> I didn't know this was a terrible thing to
> put up in the meantime, or that it would
> mean I couldn't get answers to questions
> about how to get the main subjects online
> quickly and on a tight budget.

See notes about this link previously mentioned.

> I guess the link should have
> "sold" the isp service instead of
> sounding like it was just pushing a biz-op.

Again. Not the link itself. While the affiliate link was part of it, also was the way it was linked to.

> I know that's bass-ackwards and when I tell
> friends or contacts about it, I present it
> as a good isp with the biz-op as a fringe
> benefit if they want it.

No. The bizOp should NOT be mentioned as a fringe benefit. Just sell the product.

Take a lesson from Avon... each Avon lady sells the product, they don't sell you a bunch of lippy and tehn say, "By the way, you can also sell Avon and make some money."

> Yes, thankyou for Great Ideas. Very well
> earned title.

Thank You.

> We are working on a cookbook. The health
> food stores would be a great outlet. Thanks.
> I also want to get it online as fast as
> possible. I noticed that health is usually
> in the top five search subjects. Also that
> there are way, way, too many hucksters
> pushing various supplements as the key to
> health, most some form of mlm. What is the
> best way not to get lost in the multitudes?

The best way to not get lost in all the MLM health crap is to NOT sell health related products online.

Baring that, be the expert of your chosen health area. The same old methods... articles, forums answers, own email list, etc.

> If you or anyone else now feels better about
> taking the time to respond, any advice would
> be greatly appreciated.
> I'm still glad to advise anyone interested
> in organics or natural vegan health.

Can't help yourself, eh? :o)

Okay, here we go...

Cheap domain hosting can be had a doteasy.com

They will give you FREE ad-free hosting and domain registration for $35. No cgi, or any accessorise. Just hosting. So if you will only be using a redirect page, then this might serve you well.

As for the pages in question...

Just tell it like it is.

If you're after affordable internet hosting then you're in the right place...

My name is David Horn. I am NOT a professional copywriter. But what I have to tell you is so important I decided to write this myself.

Here's what it's all about:

And now go on from there. Just tell em what you want to tell them. How you found the IP, the difficulties you previously had. Etc. Then provide the link. Simple.

Hope this helps.

Michael Ross