Hiring "Independent Contractors"

Does anyone have any tips on hiring people for specific jobs? My ad for deck renewal is running today and I'm going to see what the response is before I take the next step, but I'm thinking ahead.

I know there are lots of college students & landscaper-types who need work for the summer. I'd really prefer not to do the deck renewal myself if I can help it. What is the best way to find local help with a little experience in this area? Another newspaper ad?

And what red tape is involved in hiring someone as an "independent contractor" rather than as an employee?

Any advice is appreciated. I'll share all my results as well.

Thanks.

And thanks Dien and Gordon for this excellent forum!

John

Before you jump into this thing whole hog you might want to check out this post at Mike Rodmans forum.

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/message?forumid=166590&messageid=1021557741

> Does anyone have any tips on hiring people
> for specific jobs? My ad for deck renewal is
> running today and I'm going to see what the
> response is before I take the next step, but
> I'm thinking ahead.

> I know there are lots of college students
> & landscaper-types who need work for the
> summer. I'd really prefer not to do the deck
> renewal myself if I can help it. What is the
> best way to find local help with a little
> experience in this area? Another newspaper
> ad?

> And what red tape is involved in hiring
> someone as an "independent
> contractor" rather than as an employee?

> Any advice is appreciated. I'll share all my
> results as well.

> Thanks.

> And thanks Dien and Gordon for this
> excellent forum!

> John

The pitfalls Mike mentions are a lot to consider. Time to pause for reflection and investigation.

Thanks for the tip, Keith.

Don, did you get a building permit? Did you purchase casualty insurance? Did you investigate the local building codes?

John

John,
I read Mike's post also and while it was good I think what he says applies mostly to people who would hire others to do the work for you on a sub-contract type basis.
What Don suggested as far as I could tell is for a lone man operation doing a few decks per week and turning a good profit. I'd say with this type of setup, as long as it didn't get too big, you would be OK without all the building permits etc..
I know a guy who for the past 15 years has made a VERY good full time living selling and laying carpet by himself(he sometimes uses a helper who he pays in cash) and no one has ever hassled him about permits or anything.

If you did this you might want to try and just keep it small for right now, then as you hire sub-contractors etc... worry about the things that Mike said.

Gary

> The pitfalls Mike mentions are a lot to
> consider. Time to pause for reflection and
> investigation.

> Thanks for the tip, Keith.

> Don, did you get a building permit? Did you
> purchase casualty insurance? Did you
> investigate the local building codes?

> John

Hi John,

I don't know enough about the deck renewal biz to say much about it....

BUT, don't let your enthusiasm go to waste!

First, maybe there is a solution - you're right to ask around further. Maybe someone can clarify things such as the need for insurance.

It would surprise me if you needed a "building permit" but I admittedly don't know much about these things. However, the best people to ask about this are those who are DOING it already, if you can get hold of someone who's already doing it.... You could try this forum (which "TR" mentioned further down).... http://www.deckseal.com/bbs/index.html

SECOND, this is just ONE example of many of these TYPES of businesses, which Michael Ross posted about a couple weeks ago....

For example, Michael said,

Car wash solution is available almost everywhere. Car washing businesses exist.

Vacuum cleaners, mop buckets, cleaning chemicals, etc., are readily available. Cleaning businesses exist.

Dog shampoo is available. Dog washing businesses exist.

Based on this pattern, IF you find something readily available to the public - cleaning chemicals, some kind of machine or tool, etc., - then it PROVES people buy those items to get the results the items provide.

A percentage of people would rather pay someone else to use those chemicals, machines, tools, etc., to do what they could do themselves.

Essentially, find a product people buy to DO something with it - whether it's stuff to renew your deck with, shampoo for your dog, or whatever else you can find. Then, use that product as the basis for your business, DOING those things for them....

You can read Michael Ross's post here....

http://www.sowpub.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl?read=7895

Back to deck renewal, there are people who do this as their business, so they must have solved some of these problems. The key now is to find out WHAT they did to solve the problems, and figure out whether it's feasible for you....

- Dien Rice

into the waterless pool. OUCH.

Liability is a BIG issue. Risk Management is hottest topic going in business and in Government...why?

Cause we DO have a lot of lawyers that need work...and so even the most trivial of harms finds its way to litigation. Tsk..Tsk.

Truth. Fact. Don't hide from it.

NOW then.

A few posts down I mentioned BROKERING for funeral services. Any would be salesman must watch Glengary Glenross...and learn about LEADS.

I'm sure that every town has someone already doing decks. As even Don must admit, the LEAD to new business is extremely valuable, he's building a new empire supplying leads to realtors and auto dealers.

So why can't you 'QUALIFY' the deck owner who wants his/her deck to look like new...and be a BROKER in effect, without all the hassles and liability.

You get 100 bucks for every JOB your local licensed, insured, bonded and trained professional deck guy gets as a result of your ads or contacts. First time he doesn't pay, you NEVER give him another lead.

If you can generate 5 leads a week from your classified ads or Hotsheets you are distributing...that could be 500 bucks in your pocket minus a few hours of work...

This is leverage. QUALIFIED leads, those with a raised hand...those hungry people in front of the hot dog stand...those with the WANT...

are QUALIFIED leads. And there should be enough qualified contractors in any area to perform the work. YOU stand in the GAP between the Deck Owner and the Deck Restorer.

The cost of an ad would be recouped with ONE hot lead. If A doesn't want it for 100 bucks, offer it to B. Or C or D.

I recall a story Mike Rodman related about the guy who bought ATV's from a classified ad, and sold them to a guy WANTING ATV's from the same classified ad section (as I recall the story)...

the MAN (Mike's friend) simply used the Gordon Alexander's PROFITS (the GAP) strategy and got his little toll booth between the buyer and the seller.

That is what a Real Estate Broker does. Stands in the GAP...and is willing to pay big money as Don will testify...for QUALIFIED leads.

The great thing about doing CHATTEL...it might be hard to come across a lot of liablity when you sell your bike AS IS to someone who wants it.

Find a SELLER. Then a BUYER. Stand in the GAP between the two...and make your 500 bux that way...and you don't get wet, tired out, have to hire day labor, get splinters in your fingers, lug around chemicals, buy supplies, pay help...and make sure you keep the customer satisfied and safe...

sheesh...if there is anything that beats CHATTELING, I sure don't know what it is.

Except maybe being a bird dog (think affiliate) of the people who WANT something done...

and the people who DO it.

Stand there with your hands out, palms up, and watch them put some cold hard cash in your hands.

Get QUALIFIED LEADS for people who will pay for them.

Or get busy CHATTELING.

What is an affiliate program other than giving someone a % for a QUALIFIED (AS IN BUYER) lead?

Just a little twist, a turn, a concept that may have escaped you in the heat of the moment.

Gordon Alexander

Gary--

You wrote:

> John,
> I read Mike's post also and while it was
> good I think what he says applies mostly to
> people who would hire others to do the work
> for you on a sub-contract type basis.
> What Don suggested as far as I could tell is
> for a lone man operation doing a few decks
> per week and turning a good profit.

No, go back and read Don's original post. You don't honestly think he'd ever go do the work himself, do you? He wrote he would hire (like "McDonalds") people to do the actual work.

See, I have trouble starting a lawn mower. If I could pay guys who know deck work but who don't have the incentive to be the "brains of the operation", that's the way I would want to work it.

But all the rigamarole that goes with it, like Boyd alluded to, is a real spanner in the works! But maybe not...we'll see...

Thanks for your words. And thanks, Dien, for your encouragement as well.

John

Leave it to Gordon to fill in the GAPs...

It's worth a go! I'll take all the people I find from my classified ad and offer them to licensed, bonded deck restorers for a fee! Ha! By Jove, Holmes, I think you've got it!

As for chatteling, that's my ultimate goal here anyway...looking forward to the course.

John

Hi,

The author of "Winning Through Intimidation" made it clear that middlemen will always be rogered unless they work like fiends to keep it from happening.

I wonder how you could make sure you got your commission, when the deck restorer can make another $100 just by forgetting to pay you?

If we just sold leads to restorers, I wonder what a "raised-hand" but otherwise raw lead would be worth? Now I wish I could look at a deck restorer's books....

Best,

- Boyd

There are a couple of ways you could still do this without worrying about workers comp issues and building permits. I’m in California, one of the most regulated places on earth. Here if you’re just doing maintenance, and not structural changes you don’t need a permit. Painting, and repairs aren’t structural, so I don’t think applying cleaner would require a permit. Although you would need a business license, and most communities in California, you need a local business license even if you just delivering freight.

There are a number of temporary labor companies, like Labor Ready, that will let you hire their employees by the hour, usually a 4-hour minimum, but for this situation, that’s great. Once, I’ve even had a person I wanted to do the work and I took him to Labor Ready, they hired him immediately and I put him to work same day. Temporary Labor companies cover all the employment issues like workers’ comp, etc.

Of course, you’d need general liability insurance, and this is generally based upon the type of business and gross revenues, but you could get it with a deposit, inexpensive to start.

That’s just a few quick ideas, hope it has helped.




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