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  #21  
Old October 15, 2008, 06:18 PM
KenWeyer
 
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Default Re: How To Eradicate Poverty

Thanks, I have heard of them. I was looking at World Vision. Do you know anything about them?

Ken
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  #22  
Old October 15, 2008, 09:22 PM
Adman Adman is offline
Don Alm
 
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Default Re: We ARE eradicating Poverty in America!

..

Don Alm

Last edited by GordonJ : October 16, 2008 at 12:07 PM.
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  #23  
Old October 15, 2008, 11:07 PM
raysa16
 
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Default Re: How To Eradicate Poverty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ankesh View Post
Today is Blog Action Day - where a few thousand bloggers will post their thoughts on poverty. (http://www.BlogActionDay.org)

What do you think needs to be done to eradicate poverty completely from this world? (Or do you think its an impossible task?)

When you say poverty, there are a lot of things that need to be considered. Poverty are caused by many factors such as Politics, Geographical Location and economy. We can still change poverty , but it should start from the deepest root, Change should start from the origin of the problem, Change should start within YOU.
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  #24  
Old October 16, 2008, 03:54 AM
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Ankesh Ankesh is offline
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Default Re: We ARE eradicating Poverty in America!

I personally think the US Govt is in a no win situation.

Because they loaned a trillion bux - people are saying its the end of capitalism as we know it.

If they would have done nothing, people would have said - the Govt is useless and spineless and is seeing the economy go to bust without doing anything about it. Its the end of capitalism as we know it.

Its a no-win situation for them.

So do you have a better solution that is win-win?

(Maybe this should have been a separate thread so that it doesn't interfere with the poverty part?)
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  #25  
Old October 16, 2008, 04:07 AM
MichaelRoss
 
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Default Yes, it would matter...

Quote:
would it matter if the same treatment thats given to Aus Abos is given to *everyone*?

Yes. It Would matter. For you see... WHO pays for it all?

Whenever the Govt Gives money - grants, bonuses, allowances, subsidies, etc., etc., that money has to First come from other people.

Those so-called free things are funded by productive people. The govt steals their money (calls it tax though) and then spends some to keep itself in fine threads and hands out some for various reasons. The productive people are financing the whole shebang.

Aust now has a First Home Buyers Grant of $14k. The govt will Give first home buyers $14k to help them buy a home. Then there is the Baby Bonus of around $5k paid to people when they have a kid. There are Subsidies for parents to put their child in day care. Subsidies for students to go to uni.

It ALL has to be funded by taking money from productive people and then giving it to those who have their hand out.

So, Yes, it would matter. Because that's communism.

Michael Ross

Last edited by MichaelRoss : October 16, 2008 at 04:30 AM.
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  #26  
Old October 16, 2008, 04:25 AM
MichaelRoss
 
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Default Technicalities are where the answers lie

Quote:
But lets not such technicalities stand in the way of making the world a better place.

Um... no Let's let such technicalities stand in the way. Because those annoying technicalities are the crux of the whole matter.

As I said, words like Poverty, Poor and Needy are all generic terms. They all lack clear definition. Yet they are bandied about by do-gooders to garner free labor and free money from others. Always for their Good Works.

It is only by having a Clear definition of what is Meant that we see it for what it is. A master/slave thing where the master lives off of the effort of the slave, under the pretext of doing good.

Quote:
The problem I have with poverty is the same problem I have with global warming. It hurts seeing people die - who otherwise shouldn't have.

Man Made Global Warming is a crock. A load of BS. With no verifiable scientific evidence to back it up. Just a bunch of conjecture.

But don't you know... the term global warming is so yesterday. It's now Climate Change because... no matter what happens, it's Climate Change. And it drives me nuts. Nuts to see so many merrily frolicking to the Climate Change tune without a thought in their head. Ignoring the yearly seasons and longer timeframe weather patterns. For the sake of a feelgood slogan. Arrgggghhhh.

People die daily. But to say they otherwise shouldn't have, is to place one person's life above another's for no other reasons than the Manner of their death.

Ankesh, probably the Biggest Killer on the planet is Pneumonia. I don't see a pneumonia awareness week/day. I don't see a blog action day (B.A.D.) where a bunch of good-guy badge seekers write on ridding the world of pneumonia.

I don't see B.A.D.s on preventing govt's ripping off their people. I see no B.A.D. on the Horrors of Mugabe. I see no B.A.D. on the rort that is the Palestinian Govt getting something like $30m a day from the UN, while they send suicide bombers into Israel and the US pretends to Hold Talks and says it's fighting a War on Terror (itself a generic term with no definition).

There are far Better things to have a problem with than whether someone is living in Poverty.

Quote:
how to make sure most people meet their peak performances?

Again... this Assumes we should be making sure most people meet their peak performance.

Such a question should first be... should we even bother to make sure most people meet their peak performance?

Do-Gooderism starts with the Assumptive Question. But that's the wrong question to ask of free people.

Peak performance? Who is the final arbiter of what constitutes a person's peak. What if someone doesn't want to meet their peak? What if they are happy to cruise? See the problem with Assumptive Questions.

But the do-gooder needs them because, no 100% solution to them is ever possible. And thus they can request Assistance forever and a day. To Help FIGHT the Bad Thing.

Michael Ross

Last edited by MichaelRoss : October 16, 2008 at 04:37 AM.
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  #27  
Old October 16, 2008, 06:31 AM
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Ankesh Ankesh is offline
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Default Re: Technicalities are where the answers lie

Quote:
People die daily. But to say they otherwise shouldn't have, is to place one person's life above another's for no other reasons than the Manner of their death.

Ankesh, probably the Biggest Killer on the planet is Pneumonia. I don't see a pneumonia awareness week/day. I don't see a blog action day (B.A.D.) where a bunch of good-guy badge seekers write on ridding the world of pneumonia.

Thanks Michael.

Im confused. You think there should be a B.A.D for pneumonia? Or not? Should awareness be raised or not?

I understand that there are 101 things wrong with the world. But saying that we shouldn't work on 1 just because we can't work on all together doesn't make sense to me.

I think raising awareness is a good thing. Even if it doesn't always lead to the desired outcome. (For eg: I doubt that we will eradicate poverty completely because of yesterdays blogging by a few thousand people.)

You know my take on global warming. I don't really care if its man made or natural. All I care about is it causes hurricanes and floods - which kills people. And if we can change and control nature better than before, we should.

Saying let people die and property be destroyed because global warming is a natural occurance - is flippant to me.

People die daily. True. But to say that we should let them die... no sir I can't agree with that notion.
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  #28  
Old October 16, 2008, 06:55 AM
Phil Phil is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,857
Default Ankesh mentioned a little on Kiva... Some may be interested about Kiva, Amex etc...

In case some aren't aware about some recent Kiva news, American Express and more on the related topic...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c... Search&meta=

Phil
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  #29  
Old October 17, 2008, 06:33 AM
MichaelRoss
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Technicalities are where the answers lie

Ankesh,

Thanks for asking for more.

I am Not saying to have a B.A.D. for Pneumonia. I am saying... Why have one for Poverty - an undefinable thing, which has no solution - when there are far more important things to Blog About?

The biggest killer is pneumonia. Isn't THAT more important than whether some have a "roof over their head"?

Mugabe Murders his people; steals their property. Isn't THAT more important than someone being able to afford a medical bill?

Palestine receives money from the United Nations, they are lead by a known Terrorist Organization. The UN funds come from Member Nations, like the USA. So the USA is funding the terrorists in Palestine while claiming to be fighting a War on Terror. (How can you claim to fight something you are funding?)

I did not say there are 101 things wrong. I AM saying there are More Important things than blogging about a Feel Good subject like Poverty.

Onward.

So people die in Hurricane and floods. People also die in plane crashes, car crashes, falling down a flight of stairs, off off ladders, and a myriad of other ways. Why are those who die in Hurricanes worth more effort to prevent than any other manner of death?

I am AGAINST playing with the planet's weather - for whatever feelgood reason you have. Our weather is not just a yearly thing and be done with it. It's a Longer process. Something that changes over the course of hundreds of thousands of years. THAT is something we just should NOT mess with - for Any Reason.

There are entire ecosystems that depend on those hurricanes and floods. Stop the weather and all those systems perish. But everything is symbiotic.

Weathermen can't even Accurately forecast tomorrow's weather. And they have all the best weather monitoring gear. No way I want them - or anyone - to try to Control our weather.

If you want to build a hurricane proof home. Go right ahead. Smarter to move to an area not frequented by such violent weather.

Worried about flood? Don't live in flood prone areas then. Simple, isn't it.

You don't agree we should let people die? But you do Ankesh, you do. Your actions speak for you.

You allow it to happen daily. I don't see you out on the streets keeping people from dying. I don't see you selling all your worldly possessions, flying to Ethiopia with as much food as you can carry and feeding the starving hordes.

No. Like all do-gooders, you want Others to make your wish come true. You want Others to make sacrifices for what You deem are worthy causes and good works.

$1 a day to save a child. Nah, but it sure as heck buys a guilt free conscience don't it?

Want to save them, really. Bring them over. Raise them. Feed them in Your home. Heck, sell your home and go over there and feed them in person until you run out of money - then join the hungry queue.

1,000 bloggers writing on poverty. Phooey. They woulda done more good spending $100 of their own money - not anyone else's, their own - buying fruit tree seedlings and planting them. Letting the trees bear fruit and that fruit can feed people. Their own people in their own country.

You want to feed people? Are you buying as much foods as your money can afford and giving it away - like maybe in food give aways to the defineless Needy? Are you also giving of your time to distribute the stuff?

You're not, are you?

And that's what fries my grits. That ALL do-gooders are the same. They talk a good talk but don't walk the walk. They want Other People to walk the walk for them. They want Other people to be the Sacrificial Animals for their Good Works. Because the talk Sounds so good - and they will be thought well of.

I have no such desires. If you think I am Evil for my stance, so be it. But I think it is more evil to extract values from people and turn them into semi-slaves for what you/others deem as good works of some kind. THAT is more of an Evil than my not wanting to be bled dry and my allowing other people to be - or not be - as they so choose.

I know you want to save the world. But the world does not want to be saved. And claiming to want to save it does nothing except get you kudos from others who this year deem World Saving as a good thing to be doing.

Instead of trying to save the world - or trying to get others to save the world for you, how about leading your own life to its fullest. Lead by example. Do not gloat over what you do, just do it and be happy with it.

The best thing you can do for the world is lead a happy life and do what you want to do.

Michael Ross
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  #30  
Old October 17, 2008, 08:50 AM
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Ankesh Ankesh is offline
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Default Re: Technicalities are where the answers lie

Thanks Michael.

Why was Poverty chosen for B.A.D? I think it was because poverty is a topic most people can write on. Most people don't know what is going on in Zimbabwe. But almost everyone has seen poverty one way or another. Obvious disclosure: I'm not one of the organizers of B.A.D. So I have no idea of their thought process. Thats my thinking.

(I personally think education and poverty are 2 chief causes. Take care of them and pneumonia etc will become a small issue on its own.)

Quote:
So people die in Hurricane and floods. People also die in plane crashes, car crashes, falling down a flight of stairs, off off ladders, and a myriad of other ways. Why are those who die in Hurricanes worth more effort to prevent than any other manner of death?

They are not worth more effort. But you have to start somewhere. Again -- just because you can't deal with every unnecessary death together doesn't mean you shouldn't start with even one.

Yes - I would like to see cars with sonar technology with auto-brakes so that they don't cause as many accidents too.

Here is the grub: I neither know how to build such cars. Nor do I know how to prevent hurricanes. So I do what I can. And I try to build awareness for what I can't.

Quote:
There are entire ecosystems that depend on those hurricanes and floods. Stop the weather and all those systems perish. But everything is symbiotic.

Weathermen can't even Accurately forecast tomorrow's weather. And they have all the best weather monitoring gear. No way I want them - or anyone - to try to Control our weather.

Did we or didn't we change the way of the nature by implementing irrigation systems?

Did we or didn't we manage to dilute the influence of nature by building 101 floored sky scrapers in earthquake prone zones? (Taipei 101 in Taiwan is bang middle in an earthquake zone.)

People don't know how the waves work, yet they can sail wonderfully.

We still don't know how electricity works. But yet we have lights.

We may not know how the weather works. But that doesn't mean we can't do a better job of controling and leveraging it.

Quote:
You don't agree we should let people die? But you do Ankesh, you do. Your actions speak for you.

Yes I don't sell everything and go to Ethopia. Nor do I invest all my time helping others. But I do what I can. Just because I can't reach everyone doesn't mean I agree with letting people die.

That would mean saying You agree with Government taxing people because you pay the taxes. I know You don't agree with it (at least thats what I get from our past discussions). But you do what you can.

Quote:
1,000 bloggers writing on poverty. Phooey.

1 person phooey-ing 1,000 bloggers effort of building awareness - whats that Michael?

Wasn't the breaking of the Berlin wall initiated by 6 people with candles in their hands?

Quote:
I know you want to save the world. But the world does not want to be saved.

Thats where building the awareness part comes in. In persuading the world to want to change. (Ah -- I know I've opened a can of worms with that...)

Quote:
I have no such desires. If you think I am Evil for my stance, so be it.

I don't think that stance is evil. Its just a lazy way out in my humble opinion.

When the airplane is in trouble, you should first put on your own oxygen mask. True. But then if you just sit back and look at someone else struggle with his mask - and do nothing to help - that is either laziness or selfishness - or both.
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