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  #1  
Old July 20, 2020, 11:29 PM
Dien Rice Dien Rice is offline
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Default John Boyd and OODA loops... and how to apply it to business...

John Boyd was a fighter pilot in the Korean war, and was a Commander during the Vietnam War. He won numerous decorations as part of his service.

After his retirement, he continued to work at the Pentagon as a consultant...

What John Boyd is most famous for today is his teaching on OODA loops.

OODA stands for Observe - Orient - Decide - Act...

It sounds simple... But it's not as simple as it seems, if you really want to apply it...

He credits this to how he was able to be a great fighter pilot - and teach others to be great fighter pilots...

But it applies to so many different areas...

I've been reading about it for 20 years. But only now do I feel like I truly understand it...

And it's because of this article...

I thought I'd share it, for those who are interested!

It explains many applications of OODA loops - and how to use it to beat your competition... In the military, in sport, in chess, and in business...

(The author of this article, Roderic Yapp, is himself a former officer in the Royal Marines - which is the British equivalent of the Marines...)

The OODA Loop: From the Battlefield to Business Success
https://www.leadershipforces.com/ooda-loop-2/

Best wishes!

Dien
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Old July 21, 2020, 10:16 AM
GordonJ's Avatar
GordonJ GordonJ is offline
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Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 2,714
Default Super duper article, and an adjustment of the GJASQ1

Thanks Dien,

Most comprehensive article I've read in a long time. Some great ideas and some reflections of...

THE POA, the pyramid of accomplishment, as it shows, the faster the adjustment, the closer to the goal, the faster time goes.

Anyhow, very good. BOOKMARKED, and will study this one for awhile.

Gordon



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dien Rice View Post
John Boyd was a fighter pilot in the Korean war, and was a Commander during the Vietnam War. He won numerous decorations as part of his service.

After his retirement, he continued to work at the Pentagon as a consultant...

What John Boyd is most famous for today is his teaching on OODA loops.

OODA stands for Observe - Orient - Decide - Act...

It sounds simple... But it's not as simple as it seems, if you really want to apply it...

He credits this to how he was able to be a great fighter pilot - and teach others to be great fighter pilots...

But it applies to so many different areas...

I've been reading about it for 20 years. But only now do I feel like I truly understand it...

And it's because of this article...

I thought I'd share it, for those who are interested!

It explains many applications of OODA loops - and how to use it to beat your competition... In the military, in sport, in chess, and in business...

(The author of this article, Roderic Yapp, is himself a former officer in the Royal Marines - which is the British equivalent of the Marines...)

The OODA Loop: From the Battlefield to Business Success
https://www.leadershipforces.com/ooda-loop-2/

Best wishes!

Dien
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  #3  
Old July 21, 2020, 10:43 PM
Dien Rice Dien Rice is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,707
Default OODA loops and other military strategies...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post
Thanks Dien,

Most comprehensive article I've read in a long time. Some great ideas and some reflections of...

THE POA, the pyramid of accomplishment, as it shows, the faster the adjustment, the closer to the goal, the faster time goes.

Anyhow, very good. BOOKMARKED, and will study this one for awhile.
Hi Gordon,

I agree... it's a great article on OODA loops!

I went and read more OODA loop articles afterwards (and I have read many in the past)...

99% of OODA loop articles don't even cover getting "inside" your opponent's OODA loop... and then beating them from doing that...

Yet - as I understand it now - that's the whole point!

Without that important detail, the OODA loop sounds kind of lame (when it actually isn't, it's just misunderstood)...

Roderic Yapp does the best job I've ever seen in explaining it...

(Part of the problem is - John Boyd never wrote any manuals or books about the OODA loop...)

Best wishes,

Dien

P.S. Like you, I can now see amazing links to other approaches (including military strategies) I've read about...

Like to guerrilla warfare strategy... Which is all about getting inside the opponent's OODA loop, through speed and surprise... Then disappearing before they can react...

Like to Liddell-Hart's "indirect approach"... This military strategy also gets inside the enemy's OODA loop, again through surprise and the unexpected...

Or even to this quote from Sun Tzu...

"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles.

"If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat.

"If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle."

...which makes a lot of sense in the context of John Boyd's OODA loops...!

Best wishes,

Dien
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Old July 22, 2020, 11:33 AM
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GordonJ GordonJ is offline
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Default OODA applied to marketing, with a little help from POP...

Let's not roll over the competition with tanks...just yet.

Observe, Orientate...nothing new here, it has been taught to first responders for centuries. Once electric lines entered the pic, a first responder has to check on downed power lines, animals, snakes, etc.

So observation and orientate has always been a good point to start from, the ORIENTATE of OODA, has been expanded on and is considered the critical element. In old world direct response marketing, we would..

OBSERVE buying behavior based on LISTS to show us what was bought, in multiples, how frequent...so then we had to ORIENTATE our promotions to match the data. Don't you think this still applies?

Decide and act, although we don't see adjust on the four parts, it also is the critical function after the initial action was taken.

So, now bring in the POP (Pictogrigm of Persuasion).

We see the target inside their own circle of preoccupation (bubble, igloo).

We want to surprise them, stun them, evoke emotion, get their attention, and then orientate them toward our objective, in the confusion, we use technique and methods to gain control of their attention.

We sort of throw the bomb of OODA into their igloo and let it explode from within, whereas they make the DECISION and take ACTION, and if getting a buyer is our intent, they willingly surrender their moolah to us, eh?
As you point out Dien, little is discussed about how they get inside the "ENEMIES" LOOP.

And with the backdrop of Vietnam, how wrong it was not to.

With marketing, although WAR metaphors are widely used, especially among the testosterone crowd, it is probably more akin to guerrilla style, with the winning of hearts and minds...although plenty of lives lost with that military strategy too.

If someone has something better than the Modified Maslow Pyramid and the tools of the SQ1, I have yet to be exposed to them.

And, to play devil's advocate here (too), doesn't it come back to STIMULUS/RESPONSE?

Surprise attack, expected reaction, controlled response, etc. , etc.

Gordon


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dien Rice View Post
Hi Gordon,

I agree... it's a great article on OODA loops!

I went and read more OODA loop articles afterwards (and I have read many in the past)...

99% of OODA loop articles don't even cover getting "inside" your opponent's OODA loop... and then beating them from doing that...

Yet - as I understand it now - that's the whole point!

Without that important detail, the OODA loop sounds kind of lame (when it actually isn't, it's just misunderstood)...

Roderic Yapp does the best job I've ever seen in explaining it...

(Part of the problem is - John Boyd never wrote any manuals or books about the OODA loop...)

Best wishes,

Dien

P.S. Like you, I can now see amazing links to other approaches (including military strategies) I've read about...

Like to guerrilla warfare strategy... Which is all about getting inside the opponent's OODA loop, through speed and surprise... Then disappearing before they can react...

Like to Liddell-Hart's "indirect approach"... This military strategy also gets inside the enemy's OODA loop, again through surprise and the unexpected...

Or even to this quote from Sun Tzu...

"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles.

"If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat.

"If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle."

...which makes a lot of sense in the context of John Boyd's OODA loops...!

Best wishes,

Dien

Last edited by GordonJ : July 22, 2020 at 11:51 AM.
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