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  #1  
Old February 9, 2002, 08:21 AM
Joe D.
 
Posts: n/a
Default One Man, One Woman Show Gone Wild! Your Advice Please.

Hi gang,

For those of you that don't know me, my wife
and I recently started a local email club project
that's becoming quite successful.

Now we're faced with the challenge of not
being able to do all the work ourselves. And
will need to add some manpower (or woman power)
to the project.

Specifically we need a Database/Web Programmer, and
a graphic/web designer. Now... I've spoken with the
gentleman in charge of career development at the
University of Michigan and have an appointment
with him next week to discuss the possibilities
of making these positions a student internship sort
of thing.

Two questions:

1. Do you feel this is a wise move? Any pro's or
con's you care to share would be greatly appreciated.

2. As far as compensation goes... we are cash poor
at the moment, so we we're considering something
like a sign-on bonus of a coupla hundred bucks (that
would cover the immediate work we need done), and
then offer them a profit sharing plan for as long as
they fulfilled their performance agreement (say
10 to 15 hours/week). That way they'll feel like
they have a "piece of the pie".

Am I absurd in my thinking... or do you think it's
a viable plan? Any thoughts appreciated. ;o)

Now... this brings me to my next challenge.

I have an appointment Monday morning with
a gentleman who calls himself a Sales Consultant.

He currently works for ADT Security Systems,
and his job is to open up sales offices, hire and
train staff, and put together "affinity" deals
with the likes of Kroger Foods (big grocer chain),
and ABC Warehouse (appliances and electronics).

Well anyways... this guy caught wind of what we are
doing and wants to learn more. He's considering the
possibility of coming on board (if we let him) to help
us open up our market and take control of the
marketing end of things.

This guy sounds like a player... but it makes me
nervous. Obviously I can't just pay this guy a
salary... ain't got no money yet. ;o)

So the only option I see is to cut him in on the
business. If so... how much, and how do I
structure the deal?

I don't just want to give our baby away... but on the
other hand I know we need OPR (other people's resources)
to really make this project cook.

So we could plug along ourselves hiring a sales rep or two
and slowly build revenue... or I can get the people involved
that will allow this project to really take off.

I'm torn down the middle! Can anyone help sew me back up?

Much of this is just gut feeling for now. I'll know more
after I meet with this guy on Monday.

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for everything. I love you guys.

Kind Regards.

Joe Delbecq
  #2  
Old February 9, 2002, 12:43 PM
Jim E
 
Posts: n/a
Default One Thought for you Joe

Hi Joe,

What a GREAT problem to have, eh? Too much business! Congratulations -- I'm sure you will survive your "growing pains" & have a great business.

Joe, the oly thing that jumps out at me at the moment (while I'm getting ready to head out the door to town) is that you need to have this sales guy sign a "non-compete" form or something similar before you sit down and tell him the mechanics of your business.

There is a thread here on the board which starts here:

http://www.sowpub.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl?read=6582

...and has some good ideas. Big Don gave a great idea there too, so be sure to think it over. You don't want this guy learning the whole shebang, then going out and doing what you are doing -- at least in your community anyway.

Best Wishes,
Jim Erskine
Homeway Press


Local Email Profits: How to set up the business we're talking about!
  #3  
Old February 9, 2002, 04:05 PM
Joe D.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Thanks Jim And You're Right...

Hi Jim,

And thanks for responding! ;o)

> What a GREAT problem to have, eh? Too much
> business! Congratulations -- I'm sure you
> will survive your "growing pains"
> & have a great business.

Yes it is a wonderful problem to have, but
stressful none the less.

> Joe, the oly thing that jumps out at me at
> the moment (while I'm getting ready to head
> out the door to town) is that you need to
> have this sales guy sign a
> "non-compete" form or something
> similar before you sit down and tell him the
> mechanics of your business.

I have a non-disclosure and non-compete ready
and waiting. I will only reveal so much
before I ask him to sign it. Is that TOO
bold of me?

I personally think it's a reasonable request,
and although I don't like offending people,
I have to draw the line somewhere.

Thanks again for the words of advice and your
support.

Things are starting to get exciting.

Best Regards.

Joe Delbecq
  #4  
Old February 10, 2002, 12:12 AM
Michael Ross
 
Posts: n/a
Default Listening To The Gut

Hi Joe:

> Specifically we need a Database/Web
> Programmer, and
> a graphic/web designer. Now... I've spoken
> with the
> gentleman in charge of career development at
> the
> University of Michigan and have an
> appointment
> with him next week to discuss the
> possibilities
> of making these positions a student
> internship sort
> of thing.

> Two questions:

> 1. Do you feel this is a wise move? Any
> pro's or
> con's you care to share would be greatly
> appreciated.

> 2. As far as compensation goes... we are
> cash poor
> at the moment, so we we're considering
> something
> like a sign-on bonus of a coupla hundred
> bucks (that
> would cover the immediate work we need
> done), and
> then offer them a profit sharing plan for as
> long as
> they fulfilled their performance agreement
> (say
> 10 to 15 hours/week). That way they'll feel
> like
> they have a "piece of the pie".

> Am I absurd in my thinking... or do you
> think it's
> a viable plan? Any thoughts appreciated. ;o)

You're not absurd in your thinking. A bit limited maybe, but not absurd.

Joe, without knowing the details of what you want done, I see no need for any profit-sharing ongoing thing.

Once the website is done, it's done, isn't it? Why would you then need to continue to pay the web-designer/graphics person? To me it sounds like piece work.

As for the database programer. Again, I see it as only being piece work. Once the program has been created - and I assume we're talking a cgi mailing script that interacts with an Access database - then there's no need for any more.

If you don't have the time to enter the data into the database, then again use a piece worker - one day a week person. Or contact a Secretarial Service to come and do it for a few hours once a week. - Let them bill you monthly.

Don't for one second think you need money BEFORE you can do anything. And don't think you need to take on an employee.

Contract the regular work out to an already established service or person.

As for the programer... get prices FIRST.

The student may be able to have it go towards their degree... and that would be their payment.

Alternatively, a Promisary Note should cover any lack of funds. There should be no concern about them being paid because you've got the BIG account. So they get paid when you do. - Might even like to show them the contract but don't let them keep a copy.

You might also find a programer, who works for someone else, would like to do a bit of stuff "on the side." Specially if it's in an area they know and which doesn't directly compete with what they do at work.

One of my clients is a Computer Consultant. If you want to take advantage of the low Australian currency email me and I can ask him if he has anyone on his books who can do what you want.

Are there programers/web-people who advertise in your local area? If so, contact them for prices.

> Now... this brings me to my next challenge.

> I have an appointment Monday morning with
> a gentleman who calls himself a Sales
> Consultant.

> He currently works for ADT Security Systems,
> and his job is to open up sales offices,
> hire and
> train staff, and put together
> "affinity" deals
> with the likes of Kroger Foods (big grocer
> chain),
> and ABC Warehouse (appliances and
> electronics).

> Well anyways... this guy caught wind of what
> we are
> doing and wants to learn more. He's
> considering the
> possibility of coming on board (if we let
> him) to help
> us open up our market and take control of
> the
> marketing end of things.

SAY WHAT? HE is considering coming aboard? As if he's doing you a favour after you've asked him.

If THAT is his attitude, RUN from this guy.

How did he "catch wind" of what you were doing anyway?

Joe, red flags wave, buzzers go off and alarm bells ring when I read what you wrote about this guy.

My Gut Instinct says cancel the appointment and FIND YOUR OWN GUY.

YOU are in control. NOT the other way around. He sounds too pushy to me.

And about these deals he has put together... did you find that out yourself or did he tell you?

If he told you... call up these companies and ASK about these "affinity deals". Do your "dues" BEFORE you meet with him - if you still do meet with him.

He contacts you late Friday to arrange an early Monday morning meeting - leaving you no business hours to check out his claims?

That's suspect to me.

Unless you are in a rush - and if you are you should still claim not to be - put the meeting off until later in the week so you can do your dues. This is important, okay?

> This guy sounds like a player... but it
> makes me
> nervous.

When there is doubt, there is no doubt!

If your gut is giving you a sense of unease - whatever the reason - LISTEN.

You "doubt" teaming up with this guy? Then there is NO DOUBT... don't team up.

You are concerned about revealing anything to him? Then there is NO DOUBT... don't reveal anything to him.

When there is a doubt, there is no doubt.

Obviously I can't just pay this guy
> a
> salary... ain't got no money yet. ;o)

> So the only option I see is to cut him in on
> the
> business. If so... how much, and how do I
> structure the deal?

Hold your horses there, Joe.

You need not cut him in on anything or even think about how to pay him. You don't even know whether you will work together or if he has a personality you can work with.

Besides, IF you still go ahead with the meeting, you may find HE has a payment plan you haven't even thought of yet.

In my mind, if he's as good as he claims, then commission-only should be no problem for him.

And if he's going to create a Strategic Alliance with another business... he's probably going to get a cut of the other business' business, right?

So let them pay him.

Of course, he'd still like a cut from you too. But remember, YOU are in control. YOU call the shots. If he doesn't like it, then find someone else.

Actually, as I mentioned with the web people... find someone else anyway.

When you only have a choice of one, you have no choice.

> I don't just want to give our baby away...
> but on the
> other hand I know we need OPR (other
> people's resources)
> to really make this project cook.

OPR...Leverage... Good Call, Joe.

> So we could plug along ourselves hiring a
> sales rep or two
> and slowly build revenue... or I can get the
> people involved
> that will allow this project to really take
> off.

And who are these people who will allow the project to really take off? Some guy who approached you and made a bunch of claims leaving you not time to check them out?

> I'm torn down the middle! Can anyone help
> sew me back up?

As I said, when you have a doubt, there is no doubt. Do NOT do the thing you have doubts about.

> Much of this is just gut feeling for now.

LISTEN TO YOUR FEELING!

Your gut... your instinct... is eons old and has more to drawn on than your Conscious thoughts.

Doubt = No Doubt = Don't Do it.

Make your decisions based on this principle and you will be amazed at how soon the nagging feeling goes away - indicating a right choice.

> I'll know more
> after I meet with this guy on Monday.

Postpone the meeting so you can check in with the companies he says he's done work with.

You might find he's a hard person to work with. Or you might find he's just what you need.

Either way, get the info. from the others BEFORE meeting with this "pushy-sounding" guy. (you can be sure he's gathering, or has already gathered, info on you - he found out about the project, didn't he?)

> Any and all advice would be greatly
> appreciated.

> Thank you for everything. I love you guys.

LOVE? That's a pretty strong word to bandy around so freely. Personally I would prefer you LOVE your wife and merely Like us.

Hope this helps.

Michael Ross.
  #5  
Old February 10, 2002, 02:58 PM
Joe D.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Listening To The Gut

Hi Michael,

And thank you for your reply.

> Joe, without knowing the details of what you
> want done, I see no need for any
> profit-sharing ongoing thing.

> Once the website is done, it's done, isn't
> it? Why would you then need to continue to
> pay the web-designer/graphics person? To me
> it sounds like piece work.

Well... for each new client we bring on
board we need both graphic and web work
done. So it would be a kinda ongoing
thing. I'm confident that once we get
rolling I'd be able to afford paying
piece work... but up until that time
I'm a little unsure how to handle the
compensation.

> As for the database programer. Again, I see
> it as only being piece work. Once the
> program has been created - and I assume
> we're talking a cgi mailing script that
> interacts with an Access database - then
> there's no need for any more.

Again... there's much more to it. We already
have the basics done -- database and mailing
functions... but as the project evolves we
will be in need of almost constant programming
work. So again... I'm not sure how to approach
compensation at this "cash poor" junction.

> If you don't have the time to enter the data
> into the database, then again use a piece
> worker - one day a week person. Or contact a
> Secretarial Service to come and do it for a
> few hours once a week. - Let them bill you
> monthly.

Yeah... we've got that contracted out already
to a work at home mom.

> Don't for one second think you need money
> BEFORE you can do anything. And don't think
> you need to take on an employee.

That's where I lose you Michael. If I don't
have the money to pay these people right now,
what other options do I have other than offering
them a piece of the pie?

> As for the programer... get prices FIRST.

> The student may be able to have it go
> towards their degree... and that would be
> their payment.

Yes. That was dicussed with the University
Career Development guy. But he said if I
can offer compensation in addition to credits
I will attract better people.

> Alternatively, a Promisary Note should cover
> any lack of funds. There should be no
> concern about them being paid because you've
> got the BIG account. So they get paid when
> you do. - Might even like to show them the
> contract but don't let them keep a copy.

How exactly does a promisary note work. I don't
konw much about that.

> One of my clients is a Computer Consultant.
> If you want to take advantage of the low
> Australian currency email me and I can ask
> him if he has anyone on his books who can do
> what you want.

Well... we we're hoping to work with someone
locally... but I'll keep it in mind. Thank you.

> SAY WHAT? HE is considering coming aboard?
> As if he's doing you a favour after you've
> asked him.

> If THAT is his attitude, RUN from this guy.

Maybe I didn't phrase that very well. He's
interested in learning more about our project
and is currently looking to make a career
change. So it might be better said that he
is interested in learning more about what we
do. He really wasn't pushy at all.

> How did he "catch wind" of what
> you were doing anyway?

One of our telemarketers mentioned to a friend
that we were getting ready to open a certain
market. That friend happened to know that her
ex-husband was looking for a change and happened
to live in that market. We spoke on the phone
and here we are.

> Joe, red flags wave, buzzers go off and
> alarm bells ring when I read what you wrote
> about this guy.

> My Gut Instinct says cancel the appointment
> and FIND YOUR OWN GUY.

> YOU are in control. NOT the other way
> around. He sounds too pushy to me.

Again he really wasn't pushy. He just seemed
excited when I told him about our early success
and the plans we have in the works.

> And about these deals he has put together...
> did you find that out yourself or did he
> tell you?

He told me... but I'll be SURE to do a little
checking up on my own, don't worry.

> Unless you are in a rush - and if you are
> you should still claim not to be - put the
> meeting off until later in the week so you
> can do your dues. This is important, okay?

Well... not to go against your advice, but
I am going to meet him tomorrow for a BRIEF
informational meeting. Feel him out. I
won't reveal too much, and then check him
out throughly if I see fit.

> Obviously I can't just pay this guy

> Hold your horses there, Joe.

> You need not cut him in on anything or even
> think about how to pay him. You don't even
> know whether you will work together or if he
> has a personality you can work with.

I understand... I'm just trying to develop
options beforehand.

> Besides, IF you still go ahead with the
> meeting, you may find HE has a payment plan
> you haven't even thought of yet.

Good point.

> And who are these people who will allow the
> project to really take off? Some guy who
> approached you and made a bunch of claims
> leaving you not time to check them out?

Database Designer, Web Programmer, Graphic
Designer, Web Designer, and a Sales Manager.

That's what I need. My wife and I have been
filling all these roles to this point. And
sure we could keep pluggin away... or we can
get the OPR we need and blow the roof off.

We've got great plans, but we need our time
freed up to concentrate on strategic planning
instead of doin it, doin it, doin it, all day
long.

> As I said, when you have a doubt, there is
> no doubt. Do NOT do the thing you have
> doubts about.

> LISTEN TO YOUR FEELING!

UNDERSTOOD! ;o)

> LOVE? That's a pretty strong word to bandy
> around so freely. Personally I would prefer
> you LOVE your wife and merely Like us.

Hey what can I say... I'm a loving person. But
trust me my love for my wife and kids is just a
bit different. ;o)

Thanks again for taking the time to give me
your thoughts. They are much appreciated!

And thank you for the Art of Leverage... that's
what's got me in this predictiment in the first
place. LOL

Gotta run.

Cheers.

Joe Delbecq
  #6  
Old February 10, 2002, 03:42 PM
Dan Butler
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: A Question...

Joe ~

Before you go looking for someone to program you a database you might want to spec out your solution really well. There are lots of applications out there and most likely one already exists that does what you need. I'm using PromaSoft Autoresponder and it stores all my data in Access Databases. Not that I'm that big a fan of Access but that what it uses.

It does all the work of populating the databases and mailing and such. There are others but that is the only one I have any hands on experience with. And even though it says "autoresponder" in the title it's a bit more robust than that.

http://www.autoreplying.com/

So finding a prefabricated solution may save you a few dollars long term.

Hope that helps a bit.

~ Dan Butler
--
http://www.TheNakedPC.com/




Another automated solution I've used successfully...
  #7  
Old February 11, 2002, 06:20 AM
Joe D.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Thanks Dan... I'll Check It Out. DNO (DNO)

  #8  
Old February 13, 2002, 09:30 PM
Chris
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Listening To The Gut

Joe,

Sounds like things are really heating up for
you -- in a good way. That's exciting! I'm con-
sidering starting up a similar business in my
own area, so I'm anxious to see/hear how you do.
Be sure and let us know what happens and pass
along any tips.

I got Jim E.'s ebook on starting this biz and
read it thru a couple times, and I don't remember
his mentioning the need for any web-programmers
or graphic designers. I am guessing that you are
doing a little more for your clients than was
laid out in the "basic" plan. And, perhaps you
decided to keep a more "robust" database than the
available services or software can provide. Care
to fill us in?

Regards,
Chris

> Hi Michael,

> And thank you for your reply.

> Well... for each new client we bring on
> board we need both graphic and web work
> done. So it would be a kinda ongoing
> thing. I'm confident that once we get
> rolling I'd be able to afford paying
> piece work... but up until that time
> I'm a little unsure how to handle the
> compensation.

> Again... there's much more to it. We already
> have the basics done -- database and mailing
> functions... but as the project evolves we
> will be in need of almost constant
> programming
> work. So again... I'm not sure how to
> approach
> compensation at this "cash poor"
> junction.

> Yeah... we've got that contracted out
> already
> to a work at home mom.

> That's where I lose you Michael. If I don't
> have the money to pay these people right
> now,
> what other options do I have other than
> offering
> them a piece of the pie?

> Yes. That was dicussed with the University
> Career Development guy. But he said if I
> can offer compensation in addition to
> credits
> I will attract better people.

> How exactly does a promisary note work. I
> don't
> konw much about that.

> Well... we we're hoping to work with someone
> locally... but I'll keep it in mind. Thank
> you.

> Maybe I didn't phrase that very well. He's
> interested in learning more about our
> project
> and is currently looking to make a career
> change. So it might be better said that he
> is interested in learning more about what we
> do. He really wasn't pushy at all.

> One of our telemarketers mentioned to a
> friend
> that we were getting ready to open a certain
> market. That friend happened to know that
> her
> ex-husband was looking for a change and
> happened
> to live in that market. We spoke on the
> phone
> and here we are.

> Again he really wasn't pushy. He just seemed
> excited when I told him about our early
> success
> and the plans we have in the works.

> He told me... but I'll be SURE to do a
> little
> checking up on my own, don't worry.

> Well... not to go against your advice, but
> I am going to meet him tomorrow for a BRIEF
> informational meeting. Feel him out. I
> won't reveal too much, and then check him
> out throughly if I see fit.

> I understand... I'm just trying to develop
> options beforehand.

> Good point.

> Database Designer, Web Programmer, Graphic
> Designer, Web Designer, and a Sales Manager.

> That's what I need. My wife and I have been
> filling all these roles to this point. And
> sure we could keep pluggin away... or we can
> get the OPR we need and blow the roof off.

> We've got great plans, but we need our time
> freed up to concentrate on strategic
> planning
> instead of doin it, doin it, doin it, all
> day
> long.

> UNDERSTOOD! ;o)

> Hey what can I say... I'm a loving person.
> But
> trust me my love for my wife and kids is
> just a
> bit different. ;o)

> Thanks again for taking the time to give me
> your thoughts. They are much appreciated!

> And thank you for the Art of Leverage...
> that's
> what's got me in this predictiment in the
> first
> place. LOL

> Gotta run.

> Cheers.

> Joe Delbecq
 


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