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  #1  
Old August 10, 2017, 03:08 PM
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Default A sad day in Mudville as Ben Suarez files for Chapter 11

http://bit.ly/2fwlA0H

It was sad to see the headlines, as Ben Suarez has taken SCI into Chapter 11, to protect his remaining assets so he can reorganize.

Some say the bell has tolled on his storied career, and others say, "even at 75, don't bet against him".

When I worked at SCI, they had over 700 employees and would go over 1000 during the holiday season. A lot of people. According to news reports, there are about 120 left.

Maybe Ben can mount a comeback, maybe his way is yesterday's way.
He might take a look at AMAZON when it comes to modern eCom, eh?

No matter what, he was one of the best copywriters/marketers of all time, and his company sold BILLIONS of dollars worth of products from Jewelry to Cruises. It was (is?) a diversified company which was one of the big players in the game of Remote Direct Marketing.

One lesson I took away from SCI, was actually one of Ben's earlier lessons; a nimble, quick to act, one man band can beat the 400 pound gorilla, who moves slowly, is sluggish, and has too many Cooks in his kitchen...

as Ben explained in 7 Steps, as he took on the Giant Astrology companies of the day (and took them to school and then the woodshed)...from
ASTROLOGY TODAY to EDENPURE HEATERS, he has had one hell of a ride, hope he isn't finished.

Gordon

Last edited by GordonJ : August 11, 2017 at 12:32 PM.
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Old August 11, 2017, 01:21 PM
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Default Specialty Products vs Info Products.

The SCI filing caused a discussion. And I think Ben would do well going back to his roots, paper and ink.

However, there is a perception that Specialty Products, like the EdenPure heaters, are a more valuable way to profit. So, my simple question to all of you, is this:

Consider a heater made in China, shipped here, transported to Ohio, stocked, sold, returns/refunds, and keeping supply. VS.

A guy dictating his stock market forecasts. Which do you think has the higher profit margins? Well it really is more about a big company with overhead and employees vs a small guy with all the control vs the 400 pound gorilla with layers of staff and scores of employees. Redundant by choice to make a point!

Sure, SCI has sold a BILLION dollars of the EdenPure Heater (according to their website) and whatever the profit was, it had to be used to pay for a lot of overhead and labor, leaving the Entrepreneur with a small % net profits, OH, don't weep for Ben, that was probably MILLIONS.

But most of us, at least I think so, would rather operate little one man shops, and you can deal in products, like Harvey Brody... which is a great business model, but more my cup of tea is old junior high classmate Dennis Gartman, who offers his daily newsletter for several hundred dollars (more than the top line heater) and does, pretty, pretty, pretty good for a guy in complete control of his business.

And Dennis is just one of dozens of INFORMATION product sellers doing well, probably none better than Bill Bonner of Agora Inc. They publish all kinds of newsletters, do OK in the digital world, and to my knowledge, they have never had to worry about whether the 9 year old kid in China was able to do his full day of work, let alone a newsletter being held up at customs or "lost at sea" (held ransom) and

I doubt if they ever had to repair or service one of their info products and resend it.

Just Saying. Go and grow as big you want, hire all the friends and family you want, OR, get your little info empire started with a one page hotsheet.

With Amazon in the game, more and more marketers of items, products and imports are going to be learning the ins and outs of Chapter 11 or 7.

What do you think?

GordonJ
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  #3  
Old August 11, 2017, 07:13 PM
sandalwood
 
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Default Re: Specialty Products vs Info Products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post
The SCI filing caused a discussion. And I think Ben would do well going back to his roots, paper and ink.

However, there is a perception that Specialty Products, like the EdenPure heaters, are a more valuable way to profit. So, my simple question to all of you, is this:

Consider a heater made in China, shipped here, transported to Ohio, stocked, sold, returns/refunds, and keeping supply. VS.

A guy dictating his stock market forecasts. Which do you think has the higher profit margins? Well it really is more about a big company with overhead and employees vs a small guy with all the control vs the 400 pound gorilla with layers of staff and scores of employees. Redundant by choice to make a point!

Sure, SCI has sold a BILLION dollars of the EdenPure Heater (according to their website) and whatever the profit was, it had to be used to pay for a lot of overhead and labor, leaving the Entrepreneur with a small % net profits, OH, don't weep for Ben, that was probably MILLIONS.

But most of us, at least I think so, would rather operate little one man shops, and you can deal in products, like Harvey Brody... which is a great business model, but more my cup of tea is old junior high classmate Dennis Gartman, who offers his daily newsletter for several hundred dollars (more than the top line heater) and does, pretty, pretty, pretty good for a guy in complete control of his business.

And Dennis is just one of dozens of INFORMATION product sellers doing well, probably none better than Bill Bonner of Agora Inc. They publish all kinds of newsletters, do OK in the digital world, and to my knowledge, they have never had to worry about whether the 9 year old kid in China was able to do his full day of work, let alone a newsletter being held up at customs or "lost at sea" (held ransom) and

I doubt if they ever had to repair or service one of their info products and resend it.

Just Saying. Go and grow as big you want, hire all the friends and family you want, OR, get your little info empire started with a one page hotsheet.

With Amazon in the game, more and more marketers of items, products and imports are going to be learning the ins and outs of Chapter 11 or 7.

What do you think?

GordonJ

Gordon,

If the recent news of the many retailers downsizing or closing their doors is anywhere near correct, you wrote a great post. In fact, it is spot on.

Let me offer my opinion. I make no bones about the fact I own an insurance agency. The number of employees is zero since, as an owner, I am not an employee and I don't have any agents.

I also don't traffic in retail type profits.

I write a piece of paper, send it to the underwriter who either approves it or rejects it. If approved I get paid. If not, I don't. No inventory, no products, no nuthin but my pen and an app.

Of course I spend my time and effort in finding clients but so do hotsheet publishers and retail outfits. I'm not saying anything negative about hotsheets or other information products. Use to sell one until I got stupid and lazy and pulled it off the web. My loss.

Plus, once you buy, I get paid for up to 10 years depending on the company and if you keep the policy that long. Not a bad APV or hotsheet biz, right?

Anyway, you make a good point and just pointing out there are more ways to skin a cat in this ole world.

Here are 2 others I do as a sideline:

Energy conservation
Loans

A guy can make a nice living never having even one product to sell. Simply finding the audience and making them aware of your wares is enough.

Keep up the mind candy. We need to hear it.
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  #4  
Old August 12, 2017, 12:07 PM
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Default Some more hard mind candy for your brains to suck on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandalwood View Post
Gordon,

If the recent news of the many retailers downsizing or closing their doors is anywhere near correct, you wrote a great post. In fact, it is spot on.

Let me offer my opinion. I make no bones about the fact I own an insurance agency. The number of employees is zero since, as an owner, I am not an employee and I don't have any agents.

I also don't traffic in retail type profits.

I write a piece of paper, send it to the underwriter who either approves it or rejects it. If approved I get paid. If not, I don't. No inventory, no products, no nuthin but my pen and an app.

Of course I spend my time and effort in finding clients but so do hotsheet publishers and retail outfits. I'm not saying anything negative about hotsheets or other information products. Use to sell one until I got stupid and lazy and pulled it off the web. My loss.

Plus, once you buy, I get paid for up to 10 years depending on the company and if you keep the policy that long. Not a bad APV or hotsheet biz, right?

Anyway, you make a good point and just pointing out there are more ways to skin a cat in this ole world.

Here are 2 others I do as a sideline:

Energy conservation
Loans

A guy can make a nice living never having even one product to sell. Simply finding the audience and making them aware of your wares is enough.

Keep up the mind candy. We need to hear it.

Good thoughts. Back in the day, as a licensed Real Estate Agent with the GRI designate (my broker made a big deal about me getting it), I came to a similar conclusion that I did with Chattel...

although I will from time to time buy and flip a licensed thing (car, RV, boat, etc.) I shy away from licenses. Correct me if I'm wrong, Insurance agents, like loan brokers or realtors need to be licensed? Right?

And, of course they need to have affiliations with underwriters, brokers, bankers, realtors, etc. So, although YOU may think all you have is a pen and a piece of paper, the truth is you have SPECIALIZED KNOWLEDGE and are licensed to use it in your state.

But your post reminds me of a topic we did 18 years ago about PEN and PAPER businesses, and you mentioned 3. Gary Halbert sold thousands of would be copywriters on the idea all you needed was a pen and a pad of paper, head to the beach, sip a cold one, and easily make your six figures a year from there.

In 50 years, and having known scores of copywriters, including Gary, he is the only one I can name who actually did it.

I would argue that most people with specialized knowledge and a license to use it, may get to the APV or Hotsheet set it and forget it, automatic income stage, but
setting up an APV can be done in a day, NO license required.

A hotsheet can be done in an hour (just did 2 today, both in an hour) and no license or specialized knowledge is required.

TIME is a different story altogether, IF one wants to learn, and wants to get licensed, there are dozens of those kind of cats which could be skinned, which begs the question...

other than lions, tigers and other big cats, why would anyone skin a kitty, they don't make good coats do they? Cows and Naugas, yes, but kitties, hardly!

GordonJ

PS. I know a pro lottery player who would say he doesn't even need the pen, both paper and pencils are made available to him, although, he is one in a million, but maybe, so are the top realtors, insurance agents or Wall St. brokers.
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  #5  
Old August 14, 2017, 12:27 PM
sandalwood
 
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Default Re: Some more hard mind candy for your brains to suck on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post
Good thoughts. Back in the day, as a licensed Real Estate Agent with the GRI designate (my broker made a big deal about me getting it), I came to a similar conclusion that I did with Chattel...

although I will from time to time buy and flip a licensed thing (car, RV, boat, etc.) I shy away from licenses. Correct me if I'm wrong, Insurance agents, like loan brokers or realtors need to be licensed? Right?

And, of course they need to have affiliations with underwriters, brokers, bankers, realtors, etc. So, although YOU may think all you have is a pen and a piece of paper, the truth is you have SPECIALIZED KNOWLEDGE and are licensed to use it in your state.

But your post reminds me of a topic we did 18 years ago about PEN and PAPER businesses, and you mentioned 3. Gary Halbert sold thousands of would be copywriters on the idea all you needed was a pen and a pad of paper, head to the beach, sip a cold one, and easily make your six figures a year from there.

In 50 years, and having known scores of copywriters, including Gary, he is the only one I can name who actually did it.

I would argue that most people with specialized knowledge and a license to use it, may get to the APV or Hotsheet set it and forget it, automatic income stage, but
setting up an APV can be done in a day, NO license required.

A hotsheet can be done in an hour (just did 2 today, both in an hour) and no license or specialized knowledge is required.

TIME is a different story altogether, IF one wants to learn, and wants to get licensed, there are dozens of those kind of cats which could be skinned, which begs the question...

other than lions, tigers and other big cats, why would anyone skin a kitty, they don't make good coats do they? Cows and Naugas, yes, but kitties, hardly!

GordonJ

PS. I know a pro lottery player who would say he doesn't even need the pen, both paper and pencils are made available to him, although, he is one in a million, but maybe, so are the top realtors, insurance agents or Wall St. brokers.

Yep, your lottery player is correct. The state provides the paper and pencils. All you provide is the money.

I guess my point about the insurance game is, whether anyone believes it or not, it is a game that once you master the initial hurdles of specialized knowledge and licensing you can be on your way to a steady flow of the green stuff we all seem to be chasing.

I would imagine hotsheets and APVs require some kind of specialized knowledge. I would also imagine the people who put this knowledge before us have done the same thing I did. They studied their craft. Now I don't know that for sure but I would bet that way if asked.

In part you said, "...setting up an APV can be done in a day, NO license required." That is true. I've set up a few and it didn't cost me a dime. I also didn't do anything with them after I set them up.

However you overlooked one critical point.

Almost every jurisdiction in this country wants some money from you if start selling something from your APV or hotsheet. You see the oversight police don't care how long it takes to perform the event, 2 in an hour for ex., they only care it is a business. Even a non-profit has to have a license BTW. (I have a non-profit and it is blessed by the state.)

Here's an accepted definition of a license - a permit from an authority to own or use something, do a particular thing, or carry on a trade (Internet garnered definition). If the truth be known, the creator of a hotsheet or APV is required to have a license if he or she intends to perform said event as a business. The guvmint understands the carry on a trade as well as the do a particular thing phraseology very well. Try telling a government judge you aren't doing one or both of those events.

That begs the question, what kind of license? A business license.

Yes, I know, a whole ton of people overlook that little bit of government imposed slavery. Yet, if the local pork sandwiches are looking for some extra revenue a quick skirt through the Internet will quickly identify the "scofflaws". That's not my term. That's what the persecutors, oops prosecutors, call people who don't pay their fair share.

Since I don't live everywhere, I would suggest anyone wishing to verify my statement check with their local code manufacturing unit, aka business license department. If it is HQed in their jurisdiction they want a slice of the pie.

Chatteling also carries the same burden. Yep, hard to believe and even harder to swallow. If you are performing that act for profit you are in business. Being in business requires a biz license. You said you shied away from licenses. That's OK by me but it may not be OK by the authorities in your jurisdiction.

(I've kept the IRS out of this conversation on purpose. But, and you know it, they want a piece of the pie too. How you handle that end of the biz is up to you, right?)

Again, don't believe me. Research it for yourselves. Read what your local, county, state codes or statutes say and forget the IRS.

I live in a revised statutes state. On the other hand CA is a code state. I don't care what your state calls them, they are laws enacted by the people YOU elected.

So I don't sound political, I'll close with life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are yours only if you have a license to practice life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in this great home of the brave and land of the free. We like to pronounce ourselves as outside the system but check your wallet. Got a driver license? Social security card? Vehicle registration? Vehicle insurance?
Etc?

Actual close: I sincerely hope everyone who wishes to pursue a hotsheet or APV or insurance or anything else is so successful they'll forget the vulture on their shoulder called government because they are too busy spending their money on themselves.
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Old August 14, 2017, 01:16 PM
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Default Taxes are a given.

I don't consider my Gov't to be vultures. I've been to countries where life and liberty are not the sacred thing we have.

So, as it has been CLEARLY shown on the SQ1 PictoGrigm of Finances for te past 18 years:

http://www.sowpub.com/gordon/financialpicto.gif

The very FIRST THING, where your sources go first, is through TAXES. I have for 40 years advocated paying your taxes with a smile on your face and with the best CPA tax saving specialist you can find.

As for all the other things, do you know of a Gov't anywhere that doesn't issue id cards, tax cards, or isn't involved with their citizens?

I think most law abiding citizens understand their obligations. Although, as the so-called OPIOID epidemic shows, collecting taxes on what people spend their money on, can get a little bit hard.
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Old August 14, 2017, 06:26 PM
sandalwood
 
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Default Re: Taxes are a given.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post
I don't consider my Gov't to be vultures. I've been to countries where life and liberty are not the sacred thing we have.

So, as it has been CLEARLY shown on the SQ1 PictoGrigm of Finances for te past 18 years:

http://www.sowpub.com/gordon/financialpicto.gif

The very FIRST THING, where your sources go first, is through TAXES. I have for 40 years advocated paying your taxes with a smile on your face and with the best CPA tax saving specialist you can find.

As for all the other things, do you know of a Gov't anywhere that doesn't issue id cards, tax cards, or isn't involved with their citizens?

I think most law abiding citizens understand their obligations. Although, as the so-called OPIOID epidemic shows, collecting taxes on what people spend their money on, can get a little bit hard.

I certainly didn't mean this to turn into a tax debate. You believe in paying your taxes w/a smile on your face. Good for you. I don't.

As for calling the government creatures names, well, I guess that is a matter of choice. Regardless of what other governments do to their citizens I don't live there. I live here. And, I have a say in what is done to me. Just like you.

I've been to other countries too. I guess that makes 2 people on this forum who have been outside the US. Don't care to discuss the atrocities I've seen. However, because they happen there doesn't mean they have to happen here. Just my thought.

You said, "I think most law abiding citizens understand their obligations." I'd bet a dollar to a donut you can't articulate this vague statement into something concrete.

Here's a hint for articulating about taxes: Use the tax code to point to a specific paragraph that says any of us have an obligation. For more help, read the Supreme Court decisions on paying taxes.

So, I will ask, what are the obligations of law abiding citizens? And if I am not a law abiding citizen do I have the same obligations? BTW, the movie, Law Abiding Citizen, certainly, in my opinion, touched on that very topic quite well.

My intent was never to pick an argument or stray one way or the other from your guidance. I was articulating a somewhat different point of view. As for my point on the biz license, hmmm, the silence is deafening.

You don't like licenses. I don't like licenses. But the gorilla likes licenses. How do we satisfy her appetite?

You also said, "Although, as the so-called OPIOID epidemic shows, collecting taxes on what people spend their money on, can get a little bit hard." Yes, it is quite hard to tax the pusher assuming people are spending their money on illegal activities. On the other hand, something called sales tax is collected on the legal drugs.

Now, to get a little deeper, something called civil asset forfeiture is being used to collect on those people, alleged and otherwise, in the drug trade. It also is being used on you and me.

Ohio is an example of CAF at its best. All the cops need to do is say they suspect you have the money in your pocket as a result of dealing drugs. Yep, and that applies to law abiding citizens too. Look up CAF and tell me it hasn't touched law abiding citizens.

Again, never intended to get deeper into life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness than my initial post. The beauty of our mind is we can believe anything we tell ourselves. So, that's it.

Hope everyone makes a million bucks and spends it to their heart's content.

Last edited by GordonJ : August 15, 2017 at 09:22 AM.
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Old August 13, 2017, 01:11 PM
Dien Rice Dien Rice is online now
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Default Re: Specialty Products vs Info Products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post
The SCI filing caused a discussion. And I think Ben would do well going back to his roots, paper and ink.

However, there is a perception that Specialty Products, like the EdenPure heaters, are a more valuable way to profit. So, my simple question to all of you, is this:

Consider a heater made in China, shipped here, transported to Ohio, stocked, sold, returns/refunds, and keeping supply. VS.

A guy dictating his stock market forecasts. Which do you think has the higher profit margins? Well it really is more about a big company with overhead and employees vs a small guy with all the control vs the 400 pound gorilla with layers of staff and scores of employees. Redundant by choice to make a point!
Hi Gordon,

Very interesting post!

Regarding info-products vs. manufactured products...

Your expenditure is so much more with manufactured products, which means higher risk. If you fail, you'll fail big and lose a lot of money.

However, if you write a newsletter and nobody subscribes... Well, you've lot some time, but not much money. You can live to "fight" another day, and do it again!

How about "toll positions?"

With a manufactured product, I think there is more scope for toll positions... The potential to patent it (though that's not cheap), as well as toll positions relating to distribution, and so on.

An info-product is generally automatically copyrighted... But... You can't copyright an idea. So anyone can write about the same topic, as long as they use different words...

Check out my upcoming book, "The 3-Hour Work Month!"

(Just kidding!)

I've always loved words, so it's a "no-brainer"... Though as you know, I've gotten my hands into other things too (you win some, you lose some)...!

Thanks Gordon,

Dien
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Old August 13, 2017, 01:37 PM
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Default Toll Positions on products vs. IP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dien Rice View Post
Hi Gordon,

Very interesting post!

Regarding info-products vs. manufactured products...

Your expenditure is so much more with manufactured products, which means higher risk. If you fail, you'll fail big and lose a lot of money.

However, if you write a newsletter and nobody subscribes... Well, you've lot some time, but not much money. You can live to "fight" another day, and do it again!

How about "toll positions?"

With a manufactured product, I think there is more scope for toll positions... The potential to patent it (though that's not cheap), as well as toll positions relating to distribution, and so on.

An info-product is generally automatically copyrighted... But... You can't copyright an idea. So anyone can write about the same topic, as long as they use different words...

Check out my upcoming book, "The 3-Hour Work Month!"

(Just kidding!)

I've always loved words, so it's a "no-brainer"... Though as you know, I've gotten my hands into other things too (you win some, you lose some)...!

Thanks Gordon,

Dien

Well. Lots of people getting rich with rights (toll positions) to songs and music, trademarks, even books, and residual TV rights, look no further than Jerry Seinfeld and Larry David.

They manufactured IDEAS. And protected them, built a wall of defense (ala Harvey Brody) around them and never touched a real product.

When you put J.K. Rowling, Stephen King, Disney, Puff Daddy, or even Simon Cowell up against Ben Suarez, and other product handlers/sellers/marketers, I'm going with IDEAS.

BUT, whatever suits one is the best thing to do.

GordonJ
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