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  #1  
Old September 9, 2006, 05:04 PM
MichaelRoss
 
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Default Steve Irwin vs Peter Brock - Another Aussie Icon Bites The Dust

The Irwin family was offered a State Funeral and they declined. They will be having their own private thing. (Gaining much Kudos for this decision.)

Famous racing race driver Peter Brock died during a rally when his car slammed into a tree - driver's side first. His family was also offered a State Funeral and accepted (Losing much Kudos, in my eyes, for this decision). So now tax dollars pay for the funeral of someone who made a living risking their life and driving really fast.

If it's wrong to expect the Tax Payer to fund the rescue of people who Choose to do dangerous things but then need rescueing when events take a turn for the worse - lone 'round the world yacht racers, abseilers, hang gliders who crash into a mountain half way up, etc., etc., shouldn't it also be wrong to expect the tax payer to pay for the funeral of someone who risked their life for a living? For if we do, shouldn't we then also pay for the funeral of ALL people who die in the workplace making a living?

Michael Ross
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  #2  
Old September 9, 2006, 07:34 PM
Pete Egeler
 
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Default Re: Steve Irwin vs Peter Brock - Another Aussie Icon Bites The Dust

Got to agree with you there, Michael. Brock died doing what he chose to do.. Risk his life each week racing a car. Certainly dosn't merit a State Funded funeral in my book.

Pete
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  #3  
Old September 10, 2006, 01:42 AM
Hugh Gaugler
 
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Default I'm Curious, Who Gets To Decide?

Michael,

In Australia, who decides whether or not someone is eligible for a state funeral when they die?

Are there some criteria written down somewhere as to what qualifies the deceased for state honors?

---- Hugh
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  #4  
Old September 10, 2006, 04:20 AM
MichaelRoss
 
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Default Re: I'm Curious, Who Gets To Decide?

Hugh,

Thanks for asking.

In Irwin's case, and as far as I know, the Offer was made by the State's Premier - the elected leader of our state. As ALL the states in Aust have the leftist party in power, I feel Brock's State Funeral Offer was done so Only because our state leader offered one to Irwin's family and the other leader would have felt out of place if he'd not offered one too.

I think it is up to the Choice of the premier whether the state will offer a funeral service. Such as was the case with, I believe he was, the last Queensland (the name of our state, shortened to Qld) veteran from WWI. When he - Eric Abraham - died in 2003 he was given a State funeral, but not the second last or third last Qld vet from WWI.

As it's a Choice thing, I think the choices are based on Political Brownie Points. Our state Just had an election on Saturday. The lefties won again, and the guy I voted for (Homer Simpson hehe) didn't get in. So offering the state funeral would have gotten him some Good Guy votes.

When the First Aussie in Iraq died, there was Pressure on the Fed Govt to provide a State Funeral. However, that could open a whole can of funeral-worms as ALL dead soldiers would then be entitled to the same Honors. The pressure was a result of a body mix up - the wrong body getting sent back.

Anyway. Long to short. It's up to the leader of the state. Although, there is probably some rule about ex-leaders getting such a funeral, but everyone else would be a choice thing.

Michael Ross

Note: In Aust it is Compulsory to vote or you are fined. As I consider voting a waste of time I vote for cartoon characters. And this last election I voted for, in order of Preference, Homer Simpson, Humphery B Bear, Darth Vader, Santa Clause. Of course, my vote was considered Informal.

I consider voting a waste of time for the following reasons...

Using my Seat as an example... I had Four Choices, Labor Pary (the lefties), Liberal Party (the righties), Greens (lefties in disguise), Independent.

The Left won this seat as follows..... 11,900 votes labor; 4,700 liberals, 4,300 greens, 300 independent, 372 informal.

If I was a leftist, then my voted was Not needed as She won by a mile. If I was a righty my vote was ineffectual as She lost by a mile - same wqith green and independent. So either way, the winner won whether I voted for or against. Hence, why vote as my vote matters not. And as I am Forced to vote under threat of fine, I vote for Homer Simpson. My vote is called Informal... but the outcome wasn't effected anyway. THAT is why I consider voting a waste of time.
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  #5  
Old September 10, 2006, 11:39 AM
Hugh Gaugler
 
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Default Re: Steve Irwin vs Peter Brock - Another Aussie Icon Bites The Dust

Michael,

Thanks for the data. Here in the States, as far as I know it's only "important" polititians who get state funerals. The only argument that seems to arise on occasion is whether or not someone can be burried in a national cemetery (usually reserved for military veterans --- again, as far as I know).

Good grief . . . 75% of the votes in your state are for lefties. I feel your pain!

I once met a fellow who was complaining out loud about taxes being too high. This was just before a national election. So I asked him, "Who are you voting for?" Without getting into names, it was a flaming leftie! I asked "Why are you voting for him?" "Oh, he does good things for the poor people."

When the voters can't connect the dots, it's hopeless!

Homer Simpson is starting to look really good for '08 . . .

---- Hugh
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  #6  
Old September 10, 2006, 03:50 PM
MichaelRoss
 
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Default Re: Steve Irwin vs Peter Brock - Another Aussie Icon Bites The Dust

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Gaugler View Post
Michael,
Good grief . . . 75% of the votes in your state are for lefties. I feel your pain!

Hugh,

No, 75% of the votes are Not for lefties. Let me explain...

Each Representative gets a Seat in parliament. That Seat... is due to them winning their Area. As a result, their Area becomes known as a Seat. Each Seat (area) is supposedly made up of roughly the same number of people for State elections - close to 30,000 people.

In State election our ballot paper presents us our choices of which we can pick One (by putting the number 1 in a box next to their name) - or - we can number all the boxes in order of our Preference for who we want.

When votes are counted all the number ones are counted. If no-one has a majority (over 50%) afer the number ones are counted then the person with the Lowest votes has the Prefernces counted. Those ballot papers without a preference are discarded and the Preferences then are distributed. If no-one still has a majority, then the Next lowest ballots have their preferences distributed. And so on until one person has a majority.

Taken to the ultimate, you will always end with two parties - the winner and the runner up. This is termed "Two party prefered".

In my area, as you will have noticed, the Labor winner got a tad more than 50% of number one votes. So no point counting any more. But when preferences are taken into account and we end with a winner and runner up, they win with something like 70% to 30%. That is MY seat.

State wide, the lefties... the Main lefties that is... got around 47% of the number one votes. The remaining 53% of the votes went to the two right leaning parties, the green pseudo lefties, a religious party called family first, and independents.

The end result being, the lefties won about 60 seats, the two right leaning parties got around 24 between them, and a couple of independents who side with either party as they see fit, when the time comes. In short, the lefties won by a Mile. And even if the people become unhappy about them, it will be at least two more elections of a constant swing against the lefties for them to lose the dominant position they have.

Here's something interesting... In two Seats I used to live in, they are both Strong lefty seats with a 60/40 vote ratio on the State level. On the Federal level they are both Strong righty seats both with at least a 15%+ margin. Yes, the Federal Seats have slightly larger boundaries, but still incorporate those areas and other state lefty areas.

In my state, the righties were in power for 30 years straight up until the end of the 80's. They lost power due to revealled corruption. Since then the state has swung from left to right back to left again. And this is the fourth election this lefty guy has won. (It helps him that the roghty parties keep chopping and changing their leadership at the eleventh hour when an election is called, so no-one will vote for people they don't know.)

Yes, we canNOT Directly vote for the leader. They must win their Seat like all Pollies do. But we can Indirectly vote for them by voting for people in the same party who are in our respective seats. When enough of those people have won their seats, the party with leader we want, gains power.

Confused? Welcome to Australian politics. Made confusing so the plebs don't really know what's going on.

Oh... that's just the Representatives. The Senate is a whole 'nother matter with a Different election system.

Michael Ross
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  #7  
Old September 10, 2006, 07:02 PM
LindaLocke
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Steve Irwin vs Peter Brock - Another Aussie Icon Bites The Dust

Hi Michael and All,

I thought I would share my favorite quote on voting:

"The great thing about democracy is that it gives every voter a chance to do something stupid."

- Art Spander

Linda Locke
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  #8  
Old September 12, 2006, 12:35 AM
Hugh Gaugler
 
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Default Re: Steve Irwin vs Peter Brock - Another Aussie Icon Bites The Dust

Michael,

Thanks for the clarification.

A lesson learned . . . things are not always as they seem . . . and we'll leave it at that for now.

---- Hugh
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  #9  
Old September 13, 2006, 08:47 PM
RickC
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Steve Irwin vs Peter Brock - Another Aussie Icon Bites The Dust

In my view, here in the U.S., a lot of people, including many of my family, have given their life to give me the RIGHT to do something stupid...VOTE. Without that right (however you may interprete it) we get a Castro (Cuba), Amhadinejad (Iran), Chavez (Venezuelan leader), you name it. Don't vote...then again, don't bitch about anything.
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  #10  
Old September 13, 2006, 10:00 PM
Jim Kaiser
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Steve Irwin vs Peter Brock - Another Aussie Icon Bites The Dust

I've purposely voted for the losers in the last four elections just so I have the right to bitch for the next four years....

92 - Perot

96 - Perot

00 - Buchanan

04 - That Libertarian guy

(actually, I wanted them all to win)

Jim
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