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  #11  
Old July 7, 2009, 05:01 PM
-TW
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: I'm drowning -- and I can't tell what people are tossing...

Hey Skip -- I appreciate your help.

I can't eliminate the 'project' that's most troubling me -- I depend on it. It's too big to fail, in my little world.

But I've also tried (unsuccessfully) to branch out + try other things. I am always met with the same 'greeting.'

--- "Go jump in a lake." (or worse) ---

So, when others 'sell' me stuff where that supposedly won't happen -- and it does -- suddenly everyone looks like a complete con artist.

Unfortunately, I am 'learning' to IGNORE my own belief system (ignore my own usual, natural trusting optimism). It keeps getting INTO (more) trouble, instead of getting me OUT of trouble.

Everyone is very friendly to me, so long as I am writing checks TO them. I can't seem to find anyone who wants to write checks TO me. Those types are very UNfriendly.

As far as starting small -- it seems to make no difference whether I start big or small. It all turns out DOA.

I'll keep trying -- but now I am GUNSHY + very, VERY suspicious of any life savers -- there's a good chance they are actually ANVILS in disguise... and I'm getting pretty tired of holding my breath when i go under.

Cheers(?)

-- TW
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  #12  
Old July 8, 2009, 11:08 AM
Skip Rosell
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: I'm drowning -- and I can't tell what people are tossing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by -TW View Post
Hey Skip -- I appreciate your help.

I can't eliminate the 'project' that's most troubling me -- I depend on it. It's too big to fail, in my little world.

But I've also tried (unsuccessfully) to branch out + try other things. I am always met with the same 'greeting.'

--- "Go jump in a lake." (or worse) ---

So, when others 'sell' me stuff where that supposedly won't happen -- and it does -- suddenly everyone looks like a complete con artist.

Unfortunately, I am 'learning' to IGNORE my own belief system (ignore my own usual, natural trusting optimism). It keeps getting INTO (more) trouble, instead of getting me OUT of trouble.

Everyone is very friendly to me, so long as I am writing checks TO them. I can't seem to find anyone who wants to write checks TO me. Those types are very UNfriendly.

As far as starting small -- it seems to make no difference whether I start big or small. It all turns out DOA.

I'll keep trying -- but now I am GUNSHY + very, VERY suspicious of any life savers -- there's a good chance they are actually ANVILS in disguise... and I'm getting pretty tired of holding my breath when i go under.

Cheers(?)

-- TW

Hi TW,

Sounds like something Yoga would say. He said "No one goes there anymore because it is too busy". You say it is too big to fail.

TW, Fail Fast is the motto we should go by. What I do is take every offer with a grain of salt. I test it and see if it will work on a small scale. If it sounds logical (Don't they all) I test it quickly to see if it has merit and then decide if I wanted to expand it or lose it. Most (80%) get lost. Out of the 20% I decide if I want to keep on doing it (about 2%).

Now my area happens to be in writing make quick cash reports. So the 20% that show some profits I write a report on as a case study. Only about 2% do I work myself because my area is writing reports not running a 100 programs. If I ran each one that showed a profit I would be spread too thin and make no progress in my business.

Does that mean the 80% are con jobs? Don't know. Didn't get to that stage where I devoted a lot of time to make them work. They may be right for some one else but not for me. I am looking only for "Quick Cash" programs. Everything else I try to ignore. But you have to test all according to the program and not make up your own rules. Here is a story that will show what I'm trying to say.

I belong to a membership site and one of the members gave out a program for free. (Well not really free, I pay membership dues each month). It generated a lot of interest BUT not many success stories. It sounded good but I was concerned with the lack of success by others. Then I re-read the posts and in almost every one of the posts the writer of the post was trying to change the program is some way BEFORE they tried it by the rules.

Instead of just following the 10 steps the author gave they added other ways of doing it. That made it a different program. Instead of keeping it simple and just follow the 10 steps they wanted to make it better and bigger. Sooooo

I decided to just follow the steps and see what happened. The report was on selling common domain names. I tried it and gave it a test of 10 campaigns that cost me $80 for registration fees. I made a profit of $646 dollars on those 10 campaigns. I wrote the author and told him my success story. He wrote back saying that I was only the second person out of over 200 that just followed the steps "per se" and both were success stories. That is out of the ones that contacted him.

Now with that success did I just jump right into the program and make a fortune? NO. For me it is boring to do the same steps over and over again just to make money. Not my type of thing. So instead I wrote a case study report on my success and someone who is more detailed then me can probably make a full time living from this method.

Some fit some don't. So it cost me $80 and about 5 hours to find out this works, but fails for me. Fail Fast is the motto.

I don't know how long you have been working the program that is big for you but if it is making money for you, but not the kind of money that you want to make, and it is something that you love doing then my suggestion is to branch out in more of the same instead of different programs. If it is something that you are doing just for money scale it back to where you are happy, (remember the 80/20 rule) and then find other outlets that you love doing and the money will follow. Any business can benefit from the 80/20 rule. 80% of your profits come from 20% of your business. Zero in on the %20 and you will change your outlook on life in general.

I hope things work out for you, TW, and for all the other SowPubbers that are struggling in this fun, hair pulling, nail biting internet game.

Best of success,

Skip
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  #13  
Old July 12, 2009, 03:37 AM
MichaelRoss
 
Posts: n/a
Default Ah, a Red Pill Taker. Good. Good.

Tim,

Thanks for ASKing.

Seems someone has taken some more Matrix Red Pills. Awesome. Now watch the trilogy again and you'll get Much more out of it.

Embrace your feelings. You are nearly now totally unplugged and awake.

Okay. Here's the deal....

You Think (believe) entrepreneurialism is The way to go. Everyone says it so it Must be true, right?

Well, they're wrong!!!

Go grab the major daily paper that has all those bidnesses for sale. See the lawnmowing franchise? See the small store? See their incomes are not really any better than a Job?

Talking to a hairsalon owner in a shopping center. Her turnover is over $100k. The magic world... Turnover. Take away rent, phone, power, etc., and she is maybe left with an Income of $25k. She SHOULD get rid of the business and go get a 9-5 working Mon to Fri for the same $$$. If she worked out her Hourly Rate it'd probably be someone around $5 and she has Business Owner Headaches.

What ails you is this... marketing is a drag. If people would just call you and say, "Tim, my man, come on over pronto and do your thing", you'd jump. BUT that's not what happens. What happens is more like this...



Because... well, frankly... what you're offering isn't wanted by the people you're offering it to. It's as plain as that. As Halbert said... "sell solutions to problems people are ALREADY concerned about". NO existing concern, then forget about it.

If you ran an ad that said, "XXXX AVAILABLE. Call 555-5555 for free details" or something along those lines, would you generate sales/inquiries? If "no" then people are Not actively looking for what you have to offer.

Check the Yellow Pages. How many other's are offering the same thing you are? Any? If so, how many in last year's edition and the year before that too? Are they the same people year after year?

Apart from not being concerned with whatever it is you're selling, they DO have their mindset set on Kill. Because you're about the 20th person to call them today wanting their money. But here's a little secret... most business owners don't have much money. But they must keep up the illusion that they do or what would people think? That they're failures and Need to get a job?

HEY! There is nothing wrong with a job. Jobs can make you Satisfied. They can provide Income without Headache. They can provide a closer comradery you cannot get from Boss/Staff or Business Owner / Client because all staff are in the same boat - some think about it differently, though.

People THINK the best course is... go to school to get a Good education. Go to Uni to get a degree. Get a Good job with that degree. Get married. Have 2.1 kids. Buy a family sedan and live in a three bedroom home with Study and picket fence. Work for the man until you retire, at which time you will have Maybe paid off your house.

They think it because that's just what you do.

Tim. To function in the world you do NOT need all that Schooling. If you can read and write and do basic math you have all you need to function. You might not get a job as an engineer, but so what?

You know what a steelfixer does? They tie steel together in readiness for concrete to be poured onto it. Do you have any idea how much these guys are paid? A bulkload more than the snooty receptionist of any company who looks down on Dirty Workers I can assure you. And it don't take much school'n to be a steelfixer. Don't take business moxy to tie steel either. No clients to harass. No trying to get $$$ from someone who has none - even if they have heaps they have none, understand?

The great American dream... start a business and become mega wealthy. WHO promotes this dream? Those selling a business, business kit, franchise, banks, etc. In short, everyone who would benefit from you following that course. People who want your $$$ or your indebtedness (future $$$). (Parents want trophy kids)

Those (family, etc.) promoting School/Uni/Degree/Good Job either also gain from you taking that course of action - or - have done so themselves and now don't want to be the bunny. Notice no-one ever tells you the water is Freezing and not to jump in?

So which is it, business or job? It's whatever gives YOU the most Satisfaction. If YOU are more satisfied with a job doing X, then get a job doing X. If YOU are more satisfied with a business doing Y, then have a business doing Y. The key words here being YOU & SATISFIED. NOwhere in this paragraph have I mentioned $$$.

Now Tim. You first need to lower your expectations to Zero or below. Like I said to a trainee rigger the other day when he asked me about the lift we were about to do... I expect it to go totally sh*thouse. So anything other than that is a bonus and I can never be disappointed. I will endeavor to not make it happen, but it's what I expect.

Eg: I expect ALL my marketing to be a complete and utter waste of time and money and generate zero results. Think this way and you can never be disappointed.

Michael Ross

PS. By the way, the world looks like a Prison Yard because it is one. ALL Govts and their departments are actually Corporations which you can look up yourself on Dun & Bradstreet - yes, even the Police, education dept, schools, etc., etc. You willingly and under-coercion hand over your personal power to them because you don't know any better.

P.P.S. You are thinking normal - as in, not as much asleep as the masses. The frustration you are feeling is a result of your more awakened mind trying to deal on the same level with minds that are asleep. With minds that spout forth things they've heard elsewhere without checking themselves, that do not question anything in a serious manner, that will hear something important and ask when the game is on. Minds that try to make you come back into the fold. Resist, Tim. Resist. And delve further into the rabbit hole.

P.P.P.S Remember...


Last edited by MichaelRoss : July 12, 2009 at 07:41 PM.
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  #14  
Old July 17, 2009, 04:19 AM
MMacGillivray's Avatar
MMacGillivray MMacGillivray is offline
Eternal Optimist
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Helensburgh, Argyll
Posts: 243
Default Re: TOTALLY SUDDEN (+ troublesome) mindset shift - anyone else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by -TW View Post

What I once saw as a vast field of possibilities (biz-wise), I now see as a bogus bunch of bubbles + illusions.


Hi, TW - you've been on my mind because I've been wondering/worrying about how you're getting on? I hope you're in a better place than when you first started this thread.

Anyway, I came across a really great book yesterday which I thought might give your business a good structure - it came from a company called Infusionsoft. They are software suppliers of a customer relationship managment software - and, naturally, they hope that a percentage of people who read this ebook will eventually subscribe to their service. However, it is definitely not a prerequisite and, because I thought it such a fantastic read and a great manual for building, I decided to post a link to it here. It's not an affiliate link (although if the product's as good as the book, it should be!)

The start of the book tells of how Clate Mask, who started up a company with college buddies, was in a terrible financial hole:

Quote:
I felt particular embarrassment one night when my son asked, "Dad, why are you so mad?"

"Because a freakin' creditor called me on a Sunday!" I snapped at him

The next question was, "What did he want?"

"He wanted to know why I hadn't paid my bills."

"Well Dad, did you tell him it's because you haven't made enough sales?"

He then goes on to describe how the company started to grow, how they managed everything better and how this was the start of the CRM software that they sell now.

Like I say, this isn't a pitch for the software - this is just a pitch to read the book because it gives a structure (and a reason for the structure) to building a business; it applies to my own shop just as it does to online business or a manufacturer. I printed the book off - because I want to dip in and out of it every now and again.

OK, you can find the book, called "The Edge of Success" at http://www.infusionsoft.com/ebooks

... I haven't read the others ..... yet

Best
Margaret
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  #15  
Old July 17, 2009, 11:13 AM
Landlord Rental
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: TOTALLY SUDDEN (+ troublesome) mindset shift - anyone else?

I enjoyed the demotivational posters, good stuff.
However, your tagline of "there's always a way" seemed at odds with the message of "it's futile."
As for earnings, well... you're right that many entrepreneurs are not making much (if any) money these days, but there are other tangible benefits to owning your own business, such as freedom to create your own schedule, writing off business expenses, and of course pride in having created something. I had a real estate investing business once upon a time, and it went great for a little while, until the market crashed.
Not to mention that jobs are scarcer and scarcer to come by.
Thanks for the post,

___________________
GBD
Real Estate Investing Article Database
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  #16  
Old July 17, 2009, 10:07 PM
-TW
 
Posts: n/a
Default Thanks Margaret...

I'm doing much better now, thanks.

I'm assessing + reassessing things. Kind of a mind-boggling process.

I went to the link with the ebook you recommended -- thanks. I haven't read the book yet ... also there's another book on that same page that looks good too.

Some of the suggestions on this board have been confusing + conflicting.

Ex...

A) One side says to approach prospects with a very specific + DEFINITE offer for ONE particular service or product. The other 'side' say s NOT to do that, but rather to build up trust (in general) over time, and NOT to offer anything specific. Like, "I do [general category], and if you ever need anything like that, give me a call..."

My gut (+ experience + reality) tells me it's generally better to do the former, not the latter.

B) One side says, "HELL! If the prospect doesn't say YES right away, I just tell them "too bad" (in effect), and merely move on to the next prospect. This brings to mind the cliche "Mr. GRUFF," salesperson in a plaid jacket, chomping on a cigar. The "other" side says the opposite -- with concepts like, "the sale begins after the prospect says no," and, "the average prospect says NO 7 times (objections) before they say YES."

My gut (+ experience + reality) tells me to go with the latter philosophy, not the former.

But you can see how these opposing bits of 'advice' seem to 'disprove' and discredit one another, yes?

-- TW

PS: If I adopt M. Ross' perspective, I'd have to conclude that people like Zig Zigler are the anti-Christ -- that the glass is half-empty, and anyone who tells you otherwise is El Diabolo -- and I know that's not right.
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  #17  
Old July 18, 2009, 09:56 AM
GordonJ's Avatar
GordonJ GordonJ is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 3,471
Default Which is why, HIT THE BALL beats expert advice in the long run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -TW View Post
I'm doing much better now, thanks.

I'm assessing + reassessing things. Kind of a mind-boggling process.

I went to the link with the ebook you recommended -- thanks. I haven't read the book yet ... also there's another book on that same page that looks good too.

Some of the suggestions on this board have been confusing + conflicting.

Ex...

A) One side says to approach prospects with a very specific + DEFINITE offer for ONE particular service or product. The other 'side' say s NOT to do that, but rather to build up trust (in general) over time, and NOT to offer anything specific. Like, "I do [general category], and if you ever need anything like that, give me a call..."

My gut (+ experience + reality) tells me it's generally better to do the former, not the latter.

B) One side says, "HELL! If the prospect doesn't say YES right away, I just tell them "too bad" (in effect), and merely move on to the next prospect. This brings to mind the cliche "Mr. GRUFF," salesperson in a plaid jacket, chomping on a cigar. The "other" side says the opposite -- with concepts like, "the sale begins after the prospect says no," and, "the average prospect says NO 7 times (objections) before they say YES."

My gut (+ experience + reality) tells me to go with the latter philosophy, not the former.

But you can see how these opposing bits of 'advice' seem to 'disprove' and discredit one another, yes?

-- TW

PS: If I adopt M. Ross' perspective, I'd have to conclude that people like Zig Zigler are the anti-Christ -- that the glass is half-empty, and anyone who tells you otherwise is El Diabolo -- and I know that's not right.

I've frustrated many a golfer (and marketer too) with my HIT THE BALL teaching approach. It is different, much harder in the beginning to grasp and often too difficult a concept for the masses. It is, however, a far superior way to teach golf or almost anything else.

It is the ACTION-ReAction/Adjust/More ACTION/FEEDBACK/adjust MODEL.

Unless someone has great hand-eye coordination and is athletic to begin with, the PGA model of the golf swing won't work for the masses.

The HIT THE BALL way will work everytime. Why? Because it is personal.

Applied to a conflicting advice situation:

You have hit the ball. You know what doesn't work. From personal, in the field experience. You have results. But what appears to be lacking is the adjustment based on feedback.

If you slice the ball, it tells you that the club face was open and/or coming from the outside in at the time of contact. The trajectory and flight path tell you what the clubface was doing at impact.

You have to adjust your swing or club to decrease the slice.

YET, go to any driving range in the world. Watch golfer after golfer hit slice after slice after slice...all trying to change the result while applying the same action over and over and over. Isn't that the working definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

No different in sales or service than it is in golf.

Would you take golf advice from Tiger Woods or from ME?

If you pick Tiger, then you simply don't get it. Taking advice from Tiger will kill your golf game simply because he is at a much higher level, and the REAL advice that could lower your scores needs to come from YOU and from someone who understands your swing and what you are trying to achieve.

Yet, in the real world, we buy books by Jack, Tiger, Lee, Arnie and Ben, thinking their PROFESSIONAL opinions will be helpful, and the national average of the average American golfer is the same as it was 30 years ago. Despite advances in courses and equipment.

If I were getting frustrated over what I was doing, I'd take a "social worker" approach, the one I used in the group homes for 10 years, and that is simply, TRY ANOTHER WAY.

If what you are doing isn't working, try another way. Cut off the advice.
Hit the Ball. ANALYZE it.

Hit the ball. Try another way. Hit the ball. Feedback.

And if it gets to the point of the frustration we've seen here...then,
maybe it is time to give up golf and take up tennis.

That is advice I've given to more than one of my golf students...and they, eventually, were glad they heeded the advice and are happily hitting the ball back and forth over the net, and not back and forth over the green.

Gordon Jay Alexander

Last edited by GordonJ : July 18, 2009 at 10:07 AM.
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  #18  
Old July 21, 2009, 11:13 PM
MichaelRoss
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: TOTALLY SUDDEN (+ troublesome) mindset shift - anyone else?

LR,

The Futile posters were to get across a point. To keep your expectations at zero so you can never be disappointed. If you have Zero expectations but Know there is always a way, you will keep plugging along until you do get it (figure it out, achieve it, etc.).

You do not need a business to have Pride in creating something. BUT, if you never have a job which you feel proud of your achievements - regardless of what Other People think of those achievements - then you will feel unsatisfied. And that could see you look for a business to buy or whatnot. Hence the idea that most of the franchise businesses for sale (lawn mowing, cleaning, etc.) are aimed at people are not satisfied with their Job as the money made is no different than that from a job.

This freedom to create your own schedule is not as it seems. Depending on the business you are Not free to create any other schedule than that which is forced onto you. A Cleaner is Forced by the nature of the business to operate at certain fixed schedules, for instance. There are no Holidays. No Sick pay. Often you can be More Trapped by such businesses than freed.

Obviously I am speaking from my experiences in Australia, but down here Jobs are only as scarce as your willingness to work. If you are willing to work Without a Job Snob attitude where you think certain jobs are beneath you, then you Will easily find work.

I saw a guy on a train. He had rust stains on his shoulder - a tell tale sign of a steel fixer. I asked him, "Are you a steel fixer?" From this small intro he informed me he had been in the country for 3 days and this was his first day of work. He was going to get off the train at a certain station and then Walk home. He told me the suburb and that would have been a two hour walk. I told him to stay on the train as it went by his suburb (he didn't know where the station was).

He also told me he was living with two people (a couple) who were unemployed and had been for a while. When he had done the two hour walk previously to seek work he asked his flatmate if he wanted to come and get work as well. His unemployed flatmate with nothing to do was mysteriously too busy and remains unemployed.

My friend's brother is unemployed. he is only willing to work if he lands a middle to upper management job. He's been unemployed for months. He's a job snob.

Michael Ross
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  #19  
Old July 21, 2009, 11:30 PM
MichaelRoss
 
Posts: n/a
Default Try Jacques

TW,

Ultimately you'll do whatever the heck you want - as you should. But my post is not meant to be half empty. It is meant to Ease your distress.

If you have your expectations high and achievement is not had, you are disappointed. If you have them low and achievement is not met you are not disappointed and can rationally work on a new approach instead of blaming the world for not understanding.

Think of it as driving on the road. You unwittingly have certain expectations of the other drivers. You expect them to at least have your ability and road sense. When they Show they do not have your developed skills of road use you become agitated - probably even curse at them, right?

BUT

If you lower your expectations, when they stuff up you can avoid distress because after all, what can you expect from a pathetic driver? You can thus drive accordingly and remain calm behind the wheel, correct?

When you approach a girl you like the look of to ask/tell whatever, you may get foot in mouth. You have an expectation and a want. BUT, you can easily approach a girl you have zero interest in to converse (in a shop, for directions, in a parking lot for flat tire assistance or jump start, etc.) All changes because of YOUR expectations and what YOU want.

When you go into a business you need to know that... they likely have no $$$, have been approached 20 times that day already, and have a myriad of other things on their mind. Knowing this and adjusting your expectations to avoid bitter disappointment is not half empty, it is prudent for your mental well being.

For a different approach to selling, have a look at what Jacques Werth (http://www.highprobsell.com) has to offer. His techniques are design to avoid sales burnout and you can find some articles of his online in various places.

Michael Ross
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  #20  
Old July 22, 2009, 12:01 AM
-TW
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: TOTALLY SUDDEN (+ troublesome) mindset shift - anyone else?

Michael -- thanks for the JW link -- I'll definitely take a look.

But -- I just *CAN'T* bring myself to subscribe to the 'set your goals low, so/and you won't/can't be disappointed' philosophy.

That IS the-glass-is-half-empty, no matter how you slice it.

One could argue that it's 'realistic' -- but that's merely how all people who have given up on optimism 'couch' (disguise, rationalize) their jaded world view.

I refuse (blindly, perhaps) to, in the lyrics of "The Boss," 'end up like a dog who's been beat too much.'

I believe hope springs eternal -- and that's a good thing, not a laughable one.

But perhaps you're right, and blindly running towards the hopeful end of the spectrum just (ironically) leads one to the opposite end, and vice versa.

Maybe the cure IS the disease -- and vice versa. Who knows.

-- TW
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