Question from Zayne about Harvey Brody and toll positions...

[Dien Rice]

Here's a question from Zayne, about Harvey Brody and toll positions, which came as a message via the Sowpub Facebook page...

(Slightly edited, posted here with Zayne's permission...)

Hi Gordon,

I saw a couple of your posts about Harvey Brody here and on the Seeds of Wisdom forum. Maybe you can help.

I read Harvey's 36 page report in which he talks about controlling Toll-Positions and how, "...a person can merely control in an ongoing manner, but not actually own, a product or a concept that will enable that person to continuously earn an enormous amount of cash money, day after day, year after year, and decade after decade, without ever being "flipped" ... or what some people call "being by-passed"

He also goes into a bit of the specifics when he mentions that he subcontracts and also licenses the products to people and companies all over the world so that he receives an abundance of cash remuneration from it, without ever needing to touch the product or to do anything else other than to be rewarded with the huge ongoing profits that he derives from it.

And in his opinion, "selling specialty products through master distributors is one of the very best ways, and one of the easiest ways to earn and bank "tons" of cash money very quickly and in an ongoing manner."

At the end he also mentions, "I could start right now at this very moment with no money and also without any contacts, and I could create a "Toll-Position", or I could locate and acquire an initial "Toll-Position", and I could then proceed to become super-wealthy and also totally independent, given the knowledge that I possess."

I really need to learn this stuff. I've been searching many years for this type of information. I recently bought Jay Abraham's Masters of Passive Income where he also talks about getting into the Toll Booth Position. But I recently discovered that it was Harvey that coined that term and that he is actually the true master of controlling Toll Positions.

Harvey keeps mentioning in his report that if anyone follows in his footsteps, they cannot go wrong.

But where are those instructions? Does he have a course in which he really gets into the specifics, the nuts and bolts on how to do this?

I know he uses Thomas Register of American Manufacturers to locate "Toll-Position" prospects.

But what he does after that, I can only guess.

I guess he approaches those manufacturers and negotiates some type of exclusive rights?

Kind of like what Joseph Cossman did?

Then, if he says that he can start with no money and no contacts, and also avoids selling one product at a time, then I guess he would have to make a deal with some owners of distribution channels that can sell the products to thousands of people at a time on a performance basis?

Anyways, sorry for the long email. It's just fascinating.

The wheels in my head are turning BIG TIME!

If you know where I can get Harvey's course, let me know.

Thank you!

[GordonJ]

A decade ago, Harvey turned me around in my thinking. In so many words, which sometimes takes one a while to "decode", I found that I was doing a couple of things wrong.

Visible, vocal, and vulnerable. Too much of each. I learned those with really good Toll positions kept their cards close to the vest.

I was too mouthy, too eager to regurgitate, and too scattered, albeit doing OK with what I wanted to do.

I'll give Zayne, and anyone else an assignment. It takes about half a day. You want to go to Walmart. Then either a Home Depot or Lowe's or Menards, whatever is near you. Then a Target and maybe a few other stores.

You will wander the isles. I'll give you a starting point. Sewing machines. Go to the area where they sell the sewing machines and walk those isles.

This is still an EVERGREEN MARKET, one which few guys even think about.

As you look at the different machines, you will see isles full of stuff. Like OIL.

Maybe you will see a product like this:

https://amzn.to/2QHcJbc

A zoom spout oiler for sewing machines.

Go to Walmart dot com and you'll find there are 25 pages listed under sewing machine and most of those are parts, pieces or tools, not even the threads or other supplies you would find in the store.

Why do this? A trip down the isles where you can actually touch, pick up, examine, feel and even get the names of either the distributor or mfgr, to continue your research. I would want you to come away from this exercise with an AH HA moment, realizing how huge and diversified the whole idea is.

But you must ask questions.

In the case of the sewing machine oil, how is it different from other oils? That in itself is a whole educational ball game of viscosity and why the pros wouldn't use 3 in 1 oil on their machines due to the solvent evaporation, which could gum up the works.

So, oil...there are thousands of formulas, each one protected by a copyright, patent and maybe a trademark, the 3 pillars of protection of proprietary products.

The bottles or cans the oil is in. They might be unique to a particular use, like the white lined cans of some foods. You want to make yourself aware that there are all these things out there, being sold routinely, on a day to day basis, simple mundane little items like sewing machine oil and know and UNDERSTAND...

there is OWNERSHIP behind these. Who? This is where Thomas and other registries come in handy. There are Patents for sale. Every day.

Now this is just one form of a toll, but a half a day walking the isles of a Walmart (just not on a weekend, go late at night middle of week)...should give you the motivation to seek further intelligence.

So, then there is Charles Shulz, or was. Now almost 20 years after his death, the estate does up to 30 million dollars a year collected from licensing fees.

Licensing is another toll position. The Peanuts gang was copyrighted and trademarked, and licensed. Everyday, patents, copyrights and trademarks, these things are for sale.

You can either CREATE or ACQUIRE your toll position. Creation takes longer, acquisition is faster.

So this brief answer goes like this:

DISCOVER the world of TOLLS.
See for yourself the tens of thousands of products sitting on the shelves and KNOW and UNDERSTAND that an entity somewhere OWNS these things, and one of the best TOLL booths is owned by the guy who owns the shelf space...

Walmart. For one, one of the richest families ever, they own SHELF SPACE, and to get your product on it, can be a grueling process, or you go through their space process.

Anyhow.

First, STOP, LOOK AND SEE all the gazillions of tolls already out there.

Second, know thyself. What can you do, what do you know, where do you want to go, and why? I think more important than the how to (and I believe Harvey believes this too).

I daily visit sites, and you all have Google too, which offer toll booths for sale, to see what is out there and what the asking price is. Where does your interest lie? That might be a good place to start.

I do know that Harvey could come to any of our homes, and work in that AREA, to locate or find a potential toll position. So look out your window, do a Google search for your neck of the woods, search for mfgr, or industrial parkways.

And don't forget the Private Label route too, it may be one of the fastest way to put yourself in a toll booth, but this often depends on the distribution channel you have set up too.

Dien can probably answer more, I will do my best to answer any specific questions if Zayne or anyone else have them.

Gordon




a

Originally Posted by Dien Rice

Here's a question from Zayne, about Harvey Brody and toll positions, which came as a message via the Sowpub Facebook page...

(Slightly edited, posted here with Zayne's permission...)

Hi Gordon,

I saw a couple of your posts about Harvey Brody here and on the Seeds of Wisdom forum. Maybe you can help.

I read Harvey's 36 page report in which he talks about controlling Toll-Positions and how, "...a person can merely control in an ongoing manner, but not actually own, a product or a concept that will enable that person to continuously earn an enormous amount of cash money, day after day, year after year, and decade after decade, without ever being "flipped" ... or what some people call "being by-passed"

He also goes into a bit of the specifics when he mentions that he subcontracts and also licenses the products to people and companies all over the world so that he receives an abundance of cash remuneration from it, without ever needing to touch the product or to do anything else other than to be rewarded with the huge ongoing profits that he derives from it.

And in his opinion, "selling specialty products through master distributors is one of the very best ways, and one of the easiest ways to earn and bank "tons" of cash money very quickly and in an ongoing manner."

At the end he also mentions, "I could start right now at this very moment with no money and also without any contacts, and I could create a "Toll-Position", or I could locate and acquire an initial "Toll-Position", and I could then proceed to become super-wealthy and also totally independent, given the knowledge that I possess."

I really need to learn this stuff. I've been searching many years for this type of information. I recently bought Jay Abraham's Masters of Passive Income where he also talks about getting into the Toll Booth Position. But I recently discovered that it was Harvey that coined that term and that he is actually the true master of controlling Toll Positions.

Harvey keeps mentioning in his report that if anyone follows in his footsteps, they cannot go wrong.

But where are those instructions? Does he have a course in which he really gets into the specifics, the nuts and bolts on how to do this?

I know he uses Thomas Register of American Manufacturers to locate "Toll-Position" prospects.

But what he does after that, I can only guess.

I guess he approaches those manufacturers and negotiates some type of exclusive rights?

Kind of like what Joseph Cossman did?

Then, if he says that he can start with no money and no contacts, and also avoids selling one product at a time, then I guess he would have to make a deal with some owners of distribution channels that can sell the products to thousands of people at a time on a performance basis?

Anyways, sorry for the long email. It's just fascinating.

The wheels in my head are turning BIG TIME!

If you know where I can get Harvey's course, let me know.

Thank you!

[Dien Rice]

Originally Posted by Dien Rice

Here's a question from Zayne, about Harvey Brody and toll positions, which came as a message via the Sowpub Facebook page...

(Slightly edited, posted here with Zayne's permission...)

Hi Gordon,

I saw a couple of your posts about Harvey Brody here and on the Seeds of Wisdom forum. Maybe you can help.

I read Harvey's 36 page report in which he talks about controlling Toll-Positions and how, "...a person can merely control in an ongoing manner, but not actually own, a product or a concept that will enable that person to continuously earn an enormous amount of cash money, day after day, year after year, and decade after decade, without ever being "flipped" ... or what some people call "being by-passed"

He also goes into a bit of the specifics when he mentions that he subcontracts and also licenses the products to people and companies all over the world so that he receives an abundance of cash remuneration from it, without ever needing to touch the product or to do anything else other than to be rewarded with the huge ongoing profits that he derives from it.

And in his opinion, "selling specialty products through master distributors is one of the very best ways, and one of the easiest ways to earn and bank "tons" of cash money very quickly and in an ongoing manner."

At the end he also mentions, "I could start right now at this very moment with no money and also without any contacts, and I could create a "Toll-Position", or I could locate and acquire an initial "Toll-Position", and I could then proceed to become super-wealthy and also totally independent, given the knowledge that I possess."

I really need to learn this stuff. I've been searching many years for this type of information. I recently bought Jay Abraham's Masters of Passive Income where he also talks about getting into the Toll Booth Position. But I recently discovered that it was Harvey that coined that term and that he is actually the true master of controlling Toll Positions.

Harvey keeps mentioning in his report that if anyone follows in his footsteps, they cannot go wrong.

But where are those instructions? Does he have a course in which he really gets into the specifics, the nuts and bolts on how to do this?

I know he uses Thomas Register of American Manufacturers to locate "Toll-Position" prospects.

But what he does after that, I can only guess.

I guess he approaches those manufacturers and negotiates some type of exclusive rights?

Kind of like what Joseph Cossman did?

Then, if he says that he can start with no money and no contacts, and also avoids selling one product at a time, then I guess he would have to make a deal with some owners of distribution channels that can sell the products to thousands of people at a time on a performance basis?

Anyways, sorry for the long email. It's just fascinating.

The wheels in my head are turning BIG TIME!

If you know where I can get Harvey's course, let me know.

Thank you!

Hi Zayne,

Gordon gave you a great answer!

If you want Harvey's main course, it does come up on eBay from time to time...

The course you want to look for is "How To Become Financially And Personally Independent"...

It is a 5-book course.

There's a copy there right now...

Harvey created his first toll position - he invented the zoom-spout oiler.

After that, he acquired toll positions... I believe the aerosol pistol grip was an acquired product (along with others).

In many cases, he bought out the originators of the product, lock stock and barrel. However, you can also do joint-venture type deals as well.

He also made a lot of money with publishing toll positions as well, as in parallel, he ran a publishing company during the 1970s up to around 1990 I think. (He was making a lot of money, but in the end he decided he hated having employees...)

However, not all toll positions are equal... You want something that will be in demand, and which can also be easily supplied as well. Your toll position will then protect you from copycats, once you're making a lot of money (because the nature of business is, if people see you making money, they'll want to copy you and steal your customers).

There's a lot more to share, of course, but that's the essence of it...

I've been very fortunate. After Gordon was taught by Harvey, I got taught by Harvey too... I actually talk to Harvey on a regular basis...

Best wishes!

Dien

[GordonJ]

In the last couple of days there has been a discussion on Facebook, at the Gary Halbert site run by his sons, about Ben Suarez and 7 Steps to FreedomII (which is being updated to include Internet Marketing)...


OOPS, got a phone call, will be back to connect some dots, later...

Gordon

Originally Posted by Dien Rice

Hi Zayne,

Gordon gave you a great answer!

If you want Harvey's main course, it does come up on eBay from time to time...

The course you want to look for is "How To Become Financially And Personally Independent"...

It is a 5-book course.

There's a copy there right now...

Harvey created his first toll position - he invented the zoom-spout oiler.

After that, he acquired toll positions... I believe the aerosol pistol grip was an acquired product (along with others).

In many cases, he bought out the originators of the product, lock stock and barrel. However, you can also do joint-venture type deals as well.

He also made a lot of money with publishing toll positions as well, as in parallel, he ran a publishing company during the 1970s up to around 1990 I think. (He was making a lot of money, but in the end he decided he hated having employees...)

However, not all toll positions are equal... You want something that will be in demand, and which can also be easily supplied as well. Your toll position will then protect you from copycats, once you're making a lot of money (because the nature of business is, if people see you making money, they'll want to copy you and steal your customers).

There's a lot more to share, of course, but that's the essence of it...

I've been very fortunate. After Gordon was taught by Harvey, I got taught by Harvey too... I actually talk to Harvey on a regular basis...

Best wishes!

Dien

[Dien Rice]

Originally Posted by GordonJ

In the last couple of days there has been a discussion on Facebook, at the Gary Halbert site run by his sons, about Ben Suarez and 7 Steps to FreedomII (which is being updated to include Internet Marketing)...

OOPS, got a phone call, will be back to connect some dots, later...

Is this called a "cliffhanger" in marketing?

Waiting with bated breath!

Best wishes!

Dien

[GordonJ]

Originally Posted by Dien Rice

Is this called a "cliffhanger" in marketing?

Waiting with bated breath!

Best wishes!

Dien

OH. OK, later today, fair enough?

Gja

[GordonJ]

Originally Posted by GordonJ

In the last couple of days there has been a discussion on Facebook, at the Gary Halbert site run by his sons, about Ben Suarez and 7 Steps to FreedomII (which is being updated to include Internet Marketing)...


OOPS, got a phone call, will be back to connect some dots, later...

Gordon

Connecting the dots via GJA. Brief summary.

At 10 introduced to ELMERS, Wheeler and Leterman, via their books on selling...wrote about in SPIDERS, SNAKES AND MICE, OH MY.

15, Fran Renner, KRISTEE PRODUCTS and OLSON Electronics all intersected. Gary Halbert and Dennis Haslinger at Kristee Products.

19, long summer in Newport News VA, many a weekend at Edgar Cayce center.

20-22 Reading and practicing all things METAPHYSICAL, including Astral projection and Eastern "thinking".

70's. While in college at Golden West, met Joe Karbo, he "introduced" me to Melvin Powers, Jerry Buchanan and Jim Straw, also Dean F.V. DuVall. These were active MAIL ORDER businesses of the day. Actually met Melvin, and talked to Jerry and Jim. Also Gil Turk in New Jersey and some others.

So that is my foundation background on all this. Add in 15+ years of Social Work, 25 years of teaching golf, and dozens of jobs and there you have MY whole story.

I think it was around 1978 that I bought the big Harvey Brody course, if memory serves, it was hundreds of dollars. By that time I had accumulated a decent library too. The promotion for it was a booklet, I think over 50 pages, or something like that.

Also from 76 for a decade a member of Akron Writers Club and local Toastmasters. Now you all know more than you ever wanted to about me.

I've always had several irons in the fire, due to ADD or ADHD or extreme curiosity, as I prefer it.

Along the way, I saw 4 very different paths that people took. Here in Akron, OH, at the time, many chose to work for the rubber companies, they employed tens of thousands of people. These were divided into two groups, blue collar and white collar. White collars were more likely to be COLLEGE educated and were on salary, and earned more.

So WORKER bees of 2 varieties was one group.
Social workers. They might be a sub group of WORKERS, or in their own group BECAUSE they had a tendency to be less about making money and more about (in their minds) doing good work for others.

Business people. Mom and Pop. Pizza shop, dry cleaner, barber shop, beauty shop. Small little business. BIGGER ones, and very big.

INDEPENDENTS. Now this is my classification, explaining how I saw things as a young man. After the Navy and a four year retirement/adventure, I knew I wasn't cut out to work in a rubber company or any other cog business.

I went into social services, and always had a side hustle going too (sometimes several at a time),

Enamored with MAIL ORDER, this was my first and ongoing choice of a side business, easy to do from home and I followed directions, creating and selling information products, reports and getting writing gigs, often ghosting for businessmen in the area.

Here is what I learned from all this, so as to connect the dots.

See, after WW II, the returning GI's went to work, and housing boomed, marriages and KIDS B O O M E D, thus, we BOOMERS. The Happy Days of the 50's (for White America) had arrived.

The thing was: DISPOSABLE INCOME. Massive advertising, TV...and magazines where things were sold in hundreds of classified ads.

There was a decent sized Mail Order business from 1864 on, which had the first boom with the continental trains, which allowed delivery anywhere. But the sheer number of people with money to spend exploded after WW II for the Western world, especially USA.

So, guys like Joe Karbo, who were of an INDEPENDENT nature, started buying and selling surplus. As did the OLSON Bros in Akron (electronics), as did Mace Levin in Erie, PA. Joe Cossman was one of those guys who also was an INDEPENDENT, and I think most of these guys just didn't want a boss, and wanted to do their own thing.

Cossman and Karbo saw the huge potential of mass markets and how easy and cost effective it was to reach them, via ads in magazines, newspapers and even in comic books. I want to point out, there were HUNDREDS of Mail Order companies, we just talk about those who went on to sell

information

as to how to sell via Mail Order. So, we have a lot of WW II Veterans returning and falling into one of those paths, most being workers...Autos, Tires, Steel, Mfg. with retail booming.

Harvey Brody left the Air Force, went to college, then being of the INDEPENDENT spirit, started his career, and one of things he did was work with Joe Cossman as a consultant/per diem type. Now Harvey had already created the zoom spout oiler in college while repairing typewriters for extra income.

So, back in the 1950's, there was a time of disposal income and a lot of Entrepreneurship.

Small Mail Order companies expanded and smaller shops like KRISTEE PRODUCTS added employees and lines. OLSON Electronics, a mail order house, opened up a retail store. And the 50's saw the rise of the Strip Shopping Centers, Montgomery Wards (a mail order co), JC Penney's, Sears (original big mail order catalog company).

The 60's and 70's saw the INDOOR mall era, and this curtailed some of the bigger mail order houses, like SEARS, but there arose the specialty shops, and mail order catalogs contained everything from jewelry to food.

OK, are you bored yet? So what? Right?

I believe that by looking back and seeing what happened, the so called footprint in the sands, that we can predict and project where the footprints of the future are going to be.

No one needed an Ant Farm. I had one.
No one needed a hula hoop. I had one.
No one needed a frisbee. I had one.

No one needed a BB gun. I didn't have one, my parents were sure I would shoot my eye out, ala Ralphie of Christmas Story. I did get a Daisy air rifle, and would stick it in the dirt and YES, I shot myself in the eye.

I worked hard, because if I wanted anything, I had to buy it myself, but as a teenager, coming into contact with both KRISTEE Products and OLSON Electronics, I was given opportunity to make a lot of money for a kid, or had access to mail order products.

See, REMOTE DIRECT MARKETING really took off post WW II, mainly because of TV, and in the early days, before they were banned, all those infomercials. YES, they were banned for a long time, which made magazines and newspapers the go to mail order marketing media.

There were pioneers in Remote Direct Marketing, Ben Franklin being one of the first. The 20th Century ushered in a new era too. Along with World Wars, we got world commerce, or the start of it.

Then there is a period, where the people born before WWII NOT boomers, or peace time military, like Elvis, came of age. These became what we now call our modern masters. Gary Halbert, Ben Suarez, Bud Weckesser, Dan Kennedy (although he's a boomer), Jay Abraham etc. et al.

These were all PRE INTERNET, ALTHOUGH computers were a thing, certainly not home computers. Harvey Brody, Ben Suarez were of the computer ilk.

But MAIL ORDER was still a way, the path anyone who wanted FREEDOM and to be their own boss, could find their way

Now, if there are questions, ask now, before I continue.

Gordon

[GordonJ]

Someone posted a link at the Gary Halbert Facebook group to an interview Ben Suarez did in 2018. I commented it was a terrible interview.

So, what questions would I ask? (And it is one I HAVE asked to scores of successful people).

KNOWING what you know today, starting over, what would you do?

That is my magic million dollar question, or a variation of it.

I asked Melvin Powers that question twice, 20 years apart, and he said the same thing both times. He'd start with one self help book and build his business from there. Of course, he would do it much faster.

Jim Straw said he probably wouldn't have written so much, but he was referring to the Internet and doing affiliate marketing.

What would your answer be to that question? I'll tell you mine a bit later.

Gordon

[Dien Rice]

Originally Posted by GordonJ

KNOWING what you know today, starting over, what would you do?

That is my magic million dollar question, or a variation of it.

I asked Melvin Powers that question twice, 20 years apart, and he said the same thing both times. He'd start with one self help book and build his business from there. Of course, he would do it much faster.

Jim Straw said he probably wouldn't have written so much, but he was referring to the Internet and doing affiliate marketing.

What would your answer be to that question? I'll tell you mine a bit later.

Hi Gordon,

Great question!

I think one question I would ask back is, am I allowed to have my past experiences? Or would I have to imagine I was (say) 18 years old (but with my current skills), and what would I do if I was starting then...

The reason I ask that question is, I now believe, it is easier to "parlay" one success into another success. So if you've had past success, it is easier to have more success...

People believe a "winner" will remain a "winner"... So you can use that to help build your success, if you've had any success in your past (in any area) that would lend itself to that...

(I think this is also the basis of "fake it till you make it"... But it's always better if you don't have to fake it...)

I'll assume I'm starting with no past experiences... But maybe with my present skills...

Wow, this is a tough one for me, because I've lived my life trying to build what I call my "urban survival skills." I wrote about this on Sowpub a long time ago... I still take the same approach...

So, I (intentionally) have a lot of different skills. The idea is to always be able to "survive" if required. In an urban environment... I'm not talking about Bear Grylls type stuff. (Or Les Stroud, for those who know of him...)

I would definitely, first, establish a toll position, in ideally a high-demand product.

I would be open to both creating and acquiring one. I would start creating one, while keeping my eyes open towards acquiring one.

In my case, I'd probably stick to the info-product area, as it's one I love.

One thing I would do is focus on an area of knowledge/experience that I know well. (I've made the mistake before in acquiring an info-product toll position in an area I didn't know well - it makes it a lot harder to succeed when you do that...)

Best wishes!

Dien

[GordonJ]

Originally Posted by Dien Rice

Hi Gordon,

Great question!

I think one question I would ask back is, am I allowed to have my past experiences? Or would I have to imagine I was (say) 18 years old (but with my current skills), and what would I do if I was starting then...

The reason I ask that question is, I now believe, it is easier to "parlay" one success into another success. So if you've had past success, it is easier to have more success...

People believe a "winner" will remain a "winner"... So you can use that to help build your success, if you've had any success in your past (in any area) that would lend itself to that...

(I think this is also the basis of "fake it till you make it"... But it's always better if you don't have to fake it...)

I'll assume I'm starting with no past experiences... But maybe with my present skills...

Wow, this is a tough one for me, because I've lived my life trying to build what I call my "urban survival skills." I wrote about this on Sowpub a long time ago... I still take the same approach...

So, I (intentionally) have a lot of different skills. The idea is to always be able to "survive" if required. In an urban environment... I'm not talking about Bear Grylls type stuff. (Or Les Stroud, for those who know of him...)

I would definitely, first, establish a toll position, in ideally a high-demand product.

I would be open to both creating and acquiring one. I would start creating one, while keeping my eyes open towards acquiring one.

In my case, I'd probably stick to the info-product area, as it's one I love.

One thing I would do is focus on an area of knowledge/experience that I know well. (I've made the mistake before in acquiring an info-product toll position in an area I didn't know well - it makes it a lot harder to succeed when you do that...)

Best wishes!

Dien

Variations of the questions and sure, knowing what you know and your past experience too.

About 90% of the time I got: "I'd do the same thing, only it would happen much faster."

I think "success" is satisfied with their choices. They could do it faster, or more efficiently due to not having to make the same mistakes. Today, many say they would do something similar only using today's technology to do it.

I like your being able to survive in Urban areas. If you have a rat recipe, or cockroach stew recipe, that might help you too. He he.

Gordon