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  #1  
Old April 21, 2018, 11:11 AM
GordonJ's Avatar
GordonJ GordonJ is offline
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Default Why I don't like clients, and ways to avoid them.

Every week, I get an offer or request from someone to write COPY for them, and this in spite of me NOT being a copywriter. Sure, I've written copy, and some of it has done well, but mostly as a part of being a Creative Marketing Professional.

In the big companies I worked for, they had a group of copywriters, and they were mostly paid a salary, only a few worked on commission.

Becoming a Copywriter is today a BIZ-OP, and from the San Francisco school of copywriting to the Miami school, to the GURUS and organizations, AWAI in particular...

the DREAM IS BEING SOLD.

Why don't I cash in on that dream and offer copy writing classes (I do, at 10 bux a lesson)? ...is the question I get asked often. Why don't I participate in the big circle jerk of copywriting training?

Simlply because I think the whole FREELANCE thing is akin to my worst NIGHTMARE. Dealing with clients.

There are some good teachers, less hypey than most, I like Colion Theriot for ideas on making money without jumping through those old copywriting rules and laws of a bunch of dead guys...

And I think Abbey Woodcock does a great job with the back office, the actual business of being a copywriter. Good stuff from both.

But, the pitch is to writers, who think they can easily make a six figure a year income doing what they love, writing.

HOGWASH to that. YES, there are a few 6 and seven and even 8 figure copywriters, I know several...but the typical copywriter coming out of one of these courses has a reality...

They are going to spend their time working for someone else and at the end of the year, at the bottom line...maybe they could have used their writing skills to WORK LESS and MAKE MORE. Which of course has been my mantra for decades.

Why have headaches of clients if you don't need them? Why be on the phone, sending mail, doing Internet stuff, if you don't have to?

I think it is great for those people who want to be copywriters, and work hard and get clients and sell tons of supplements to the sheep (not a single supplement has a significant study behind its claims)...or any of the other bullsh*t items which need copy to sell them.

If you dream of being a copywriter or marketer, be careful what you ask for you just might get it.

I don't like clients because of the TIME committment. They can't pay me enough to take away my time to sell their crap, and since I think almost all of it is crap, it would take a lot of persuasion to convince me otherwise.

But, if you like clients, working with people, being on their schedules, their deadlines, meeting their demands...go for it. Lots of moolah to be made with clients.

Just know there is a lot of moolah to be made without them too.

Six figures a year, the magic carrot dangled before would be copywriters, all while with their feet in the sand at the beach sipping cool drinks, what could be better than that? Just read the Facebook pages of hundreds, maybe thousands of would be copywriters who work a full 40+ week and still don't reach the magic six figures.

What would someone have to do to bring in that amount? Many ways to do it, why, maybe even by selling low cost information products like the guy at eBay who sells the VooDoo manuals.

Even a small list of 600 to 1000 people might work, and online, a 1000 people on a list is considered small. We've got several thousand on our combined lists.

But a 1000 people would have to spend 100 bux each wouldn't they, or maybe 10 bux 5 times, and 25 twice...small little bites, little bits of information which for the most part is NO BRAINER buys.

It is a decision to spend 297, 497 and more, but getting 10-25 from a list of people who have bought from you before, not all that hard, is it? Just guessing here, but I'm sure some of you here have sold more than one item to the same person. Some, maybe, even over and over and over and over again because, heck its only 10 bux. Why not, eh?

Anyhow I hate slop and mess and dealing with clients, when there are so many other less TIME CONSUMING options to bring in moolah. And there are those ways which have scale to them. Just as easy to sell ONE buyer (like a Walmart) on buying 100,000 than it is to sell one product to 100 thousand buyers, right?

Of course, you get to do whatever you want. You want clients, swell. It is your time. Spend as you please.

Just know that someone (ME) has told you there might be a better way for you. I don't know if there is. But at least I've thought about it, I looked at the world with eyes wide open and saw the vast oppoirtunities we all have to do our own thing....

IF we know what our thing is and what we want and or what we should be doing (our mission in life).

If you have an inkling there might be something better out there for you, a good start might be to read MAKE MORE MONEY AND HAVE MORE FREE TIME
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/gjbiz/gopromo.pdf

At 10 bux, its a no brainer, and besides, no one is getting rich or making much money from a lousy ten dollar report, are they?

Good luck with your clients, if you want them.

Gordon

PS. Before you ask how many lessons at 10 bux each, to become a good and money making copywriter, it could be one, or 10,000. How would I know?

It depends on what you bring along, you might be one lesson away from becoming a six figure copywriter, or you may be so headstrong, a 1001 lessons won't help you out. I do know, those OFF THE RACK COPYWRITING COURSES don't work for most people, other wise guys like Theriot wouldn't have 27,000 members in a Facebook group. And safe to say the majority of any copywriting group have spent a pretty penny on their education, eh?
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  #2  
Old April 23, 2018, 03:45 PM
spyglass
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Why I don't like clients, and ways to avoid them.

Gordon,

Nice post. I agree with about 98% of what you said. I don't mind having a client or two, etc. I just don't want them to be my major source of income nor not being able to fire one who gets to be too much of a bother because I cannot afford to do without his/her fees.

What is the minimum bankroll required to put the wheels of this model turning?

Thanks.
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  #3  
Old April 23, 2018, 08:22 PM
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GordonJ GordonJ is offline
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Location: West Palm Beach, FL
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Default Not sure which model...

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyglass View Post
Gordon,

Nice post. I agree with about 98% of what you said. I don't mind having a client or two, etc. I just don't want them to be my major source of income nor not being able to fire one who gets to be too much of a bother because I cannot afford to do without his/her fees.

What is the minimum bankroll required to put the wheels of this model turning?

Thanks.

IF you are talking about the NO clients model, it requires a confidence that you can generate the income you need, in a variety of ways. My default is chattel. Always stored value to be found.

IF you have a different model, please, let me know, OK?

Gordon
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  #4  
Old April 24, 2018, 12:13 PM
spyglass
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Not sure which model...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonJ View Post
IF you are talking about the NO clients model, it requires a confidence that you can generate the income you need, in a variety of ways. My default is chattel. Always stored value to be found.

IF you have a different model, please, let me know, OK?

Gordon

Gordon,

No, I have no other model. Just wanted to know what level of bankroll was required to get things going. If the report details several models, I get that my question is difficult to answer with any specifics.

Okay, forgive my ignorance. I have heard you refer to "chattel" many times. Yet I have no clear idea what you are talking about. Please illuminate. :-)

Thanks.
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  #5  
Old April 24, 2018, 02:50 PM
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GordonJ GordonJ is offline
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Location: West Palm Beach, FL
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Default OH, I see, my fault, in my haste, I lost clarity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyglass View Post
Gordon,

No, I have no other model. Just wanted to know what level of bankroll was required to get things going. If the report details several models, I get that my question is difficult to answer with any specifics.

Okay, forgive my ignorance. I have heard you refer to "chattel" many times. Yet I have no clear idea what you are talking about. Please illuminate. :-)

Thanks.

My apologies spyglass, the new report was an add on to the post, but it isn't about that. Because I confused you, and myself, send me an email, I'll send you the new report to review, fair enough? [email protected]

The meat of the report is about the TRANSACTION whatever it looks like.

With a CLIENT model, your do something for someone who pays you.

As noted, I don't much like that model. With a PRODUCT model, your transactions are an exchange of value, usually money for your product.

Gum used to a penny, way back when, and Wrigley made millions selling sticks of gum for a penny.

Best PRODUCT models, are consumables, used up and bought again. Harvey Brody's ZOOM SPOUT OILER. Vitamins, supplements, Veveeta Cheese like substance, Miracle Whip...TIDE...

Consumables are the best products, if you have one that people like and reorder from you.

Models which don't have a client, is buying and selling of stuff. Chattel is the legal term for personal property, it used in Real Estate transactions to identify the things which are NOT permanently attached to a house, although an area of great dispute if the light fixtures, faucets, etc. walk away with the seller.

Chatteling is a term I coined 25 years ago to describe the act of buying and selling personal property (or corporate/gov't) for a profit.

Some, call it flipping stuff. And I like to point out a family who is doing this, even as I type:

https://fleamarketflipper.com/

Spend a half hour reading over his "flips" for the last year which allowed them to make over 100 thousand dollars last year. NO CLIENTS.

With Chattel, you buy something and you sell it for a profit. What? The what doesn't matter, the thing, whatever it is, just needs to have stored value.

Easy way to quickly determine the market value is via eBay SOLD listings and Amazon marketplace and Google...to see what people actually pay for that or a similar item. Many reasons to get rid of stuff. Rob the flea market flipper got a sign for 750 bux, sold it for 7500. Lots of work with that deal, but well worth his time. At his website, you'll see those guys buy ANYTHING and sell it.

Another PRODUCT/SERVICE model, is the one off. Painting house numbers on a curb, high powered water cleaning a deck, or selling popcorn door to door.

As for cost of entry, no bank roll needed when offer labor...and minimum when offering a low cost service, like cleaning headlights, 2 dollars of product returns 30.00 so the margins are really good, it then becomes a question of volume.

We, Dien and I, have over the last 20 years, has multiple streams of income in play, and neither of us have had the majority of that with our online efforts.

I do like Automatic Product Vending sites, like the one here:
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/gjbiz/gopromo.pdf

These just need eyeballs, or traffic. Once someone pays, the product is delivered automatically, we've had about 50 of these over the last 20 years or so.

In the report you'll read about my golf business and how I leveraged a single lesson into a workshop, and got 10 people to pay me for the same time that normally I would have used with just one of them. Then from there, leveraged that into PRODUCTS (you'll see in the report) and those were taken care of by a third party.

The resources in the report show you how to set up a FULFILLMENT CENTER and some of them do everything for you, even taking the money and sending out the products.

You can start to Chattel, by selling your TV, using that money to buy more stuff, and as long as you increase your profits with each flip, you also have a very low bankroll way of bringing in cashola.

Sorry for the confusion, I'm trying to do too many things right now, kind of in a manic phase getting ready for being shuttered and hunkered down for the Summer to get the TV and Movie scripts to the marketplace. Jury is still out on that money making venture, when I accept my offer, I'll be sure to thank the members of SowPub too....HA!

Actually screw awards, show me the money, I'll get artisitic after the first couple of scripts get picked up.

Gordon

PS. I see I'm starting to sound as if English is not my native tongue. OH well, I'm not the typist I once was, and don't have the time to correct it. Hopefully, you all get the gist of it.

Last edited by GordonJ : April 24, 2018 at 03:03 PM.
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  #6  
Old April 25, 2018, 01:37 PM
Glenn Glenn is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,240
Default *PAPER-PANTS-TEST* As a Way to Screen Out Client Prospects

Thanks Gordon,

As You Know I just closed 4 New Clients. (I wrote most of the book and Shared
it on Sowpub - with your kind Permission.)

Did Not Want Four.

Do Not Want Any More.

That's for Sure.

----

So After a Week I Took a NEW LOOK at my newest *Billion Dollar Self Referral System e-book offer*...

Screamed "EUREKA!"

And

Decided to GIVE The New E-book with 12 Different Case Studies Where We
Actually FIND 5 and 6 Figure NEW Clients FOR a Dozen Small Business owners....

AWAY for F-r-e-e.

But "FREE" is Boring.

And I didn't want to Deal with a Bunch of People Who DO NOT TAKE ACTION.

So.

Instead of "F*R*E*E.

I Created The "PAPER-PANTS-FLIRT-TEST."

You ask, "What in the World is a "Paper Pants Flirt Test?"

WELL.

It all came about because I LIKE MORE Food on my Plate at Restaurants. And
my boredom with Traditional Tipping Methods.

I came across this website s*ale on "White Paper Pants" - used for Painting
and to protect your Clothes while doing MANUAL LABOR.

Bought 10 pair.

And took 2 Pair to a Sports Bar in Maryland.

***PAPER PANTS #1 - I Wrote "Thank You" on one leg with MAGIC MARKER.

Then Asked My Waitress Name, STACY, and Then Wrote "STACY" on The other Leg.

AND

SAID, "Is it OK If I TIP You BEFORE Lunch Stacy?"

Stacy says, "SURE."

So I Held Both Arms Out with The PAPER PANTS THANK YOU NOTE - Face UP
and said, "Here is TIP #1 for you. Paper Pants!"

And
then
I
Got
the
Cooks name. "Griffin."

***And Wrote on PAPER PANTS #2, "THANK YOU FOR THE FOOD - GRIFFIN."

And
Got STACY to Escort me into the Kitchen.

Where I Personally Presented GRIFFIN with his PAPER PANTS Thank You Note.
Plus 5 Instant Scratch OFF LOTTO Tickets.

Stacy Got LOTTO tickets all thru Lunch - too.

THIS was on a MONDAY at lunch. So the Place was nearly empty. And so I got
to MEET all the GIGGLING waitresses, Most of The SMILING Cooks and Bus Boys AND THE GRINNING MANAGER. (Who Thanked me for Entertaining her team.)

Everybody had a Lot of Fun.

AND I Got TWICE AS MUCH food. And a F-r-e-e Dessert And OOOPS. They
made a mistake on my BILL in MY FAVOR.

===========
===========
FRESH EYES on my New SELF REFERRAL E-book...

I Thought, "A PAPER PANTS TEST Would make a Fantastic Way to WEED OUT
the Tire Kickers and Whingers."

"So I Could TALK BY PHONE to Just a few TAKE-ACTION-TYPES.

And Thus it Came To Pass...

I Changed The LAST Paragraph at the End of The "B*illion D*ollar Referral System" S*Ales letter to say...

"You Get a F-r-e-e Copy of Our New Book if You PASS Our PAPER-PANTS-FLIRT- TEST..."

(EDITORS NOTE - Now My F*R*E*E book offer is Not BORING.)

https://moolahattraction.com/ac/bdrs.php

Thanks,
Glenn

P.S. - Gordon - In The Past Two Weeks you have written at least 2 Posts
wondering "How to Find People Who Take Action AND Now "How to Avoid Clients."

I'm not Suggesting you Use My PAPER PANTS idea. But the "QUALIFY" Concept
behind it might be worth Testing.
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  #7  
Old April 25, 2018, 04:37 PM
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GordonJ GordonJ is offline
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Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 3,471
Default Glenn, I've always liked your qualifers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn View Post
Thanks Gordon,

As You Know I just closed 4 New Clients. (I wrote most of the book and Shared
it on Sowpub - with your kind Permission.)

Did Not Want Four.

Do Not Want Any More.

That's for Sure.

----

So After a Week I Took a NEW LOOK at my newest *Billion Dollar Self Referral System e-book offer*...

Screamed "EUREKA!"

And

Decided to GIVE The New E-book with 12 Different Case Studies Where We
Actually FIND 5 and 6 Figure NEW Clients FOR a Dozen Small Business owners....

AWAY for F-r-e-e.

But "FREE" is Boring.

And I didn't want to Deal with a Bunch of People Who DO NOT TAKE ACTION.

So.

Instead of "F*R*E*E.

I Created The "PAPER-PANTS-FLIRT-TEST."

You ask, "What in the World is a "Paper Pants Flirt Test?"

WELL.

It all came about because I LIKE MORE Food on my Plate at Restaurants. And
my boredom with Traditional Tipping Methods.

I came across this website s*ale on "White Paper Pants" - used for Painting
and to protect your Clothes while doing MANUAL LABOR.

Bought 10 pair.

And took 2 Pair to a Sports Bar in Maryland.

***PAPER PANTS #1 - I Wrote "Thank You" on one leg with MAGIC MARKER.

Then Asked My Waitress Name, STACY, and Then Wrote "STACY" on The other Leg.

AND

SAID, "Is it OK If I TIP You BEFORE Lunch Stacy?"

Stacy says, "SURE."

So I Held Both Arms Out with The PAPER PANTS THANK YOU NOTE - Face UP
and said, "Here is TIP #1 for you. Paper Pants!"

And
then
I
Got
the
Cooks name. "Griffin."

***And Wrote on PAPER PANTS #2, "THANK YOU FOR THE FOOD - GRIFFIN."

And
Got STACY to Escort me into the Kitchen.

Where I Personally Presented GRIFFIN with his PAPER PANTS Thank You Note.
Plus 5 Instant Scratch OFF LOTTO Tickets.

Stacy Got LOTTO tickets all thru Lunch - too.

THIS was on a MONDAY at lunch. So the Place was nearly empty. And so I got
to MEET all the GIGGLING waitresses, Most of The SMILING Cooks and Bus Boys AND THE GRINNING MANAGER. (Who Thanked me for Entertaining her team.)

Everybody had a Lot of Fun.

AND I Got TWICE AS MUCH food. And a F-r-e-e Dessert And OOOPS. They
made a mistake on my BILL in MY FAVOR.

===========
===========
FRESH EYES on my New SELF REFERRAL E-book...

I Thought, "A PAPER PANTS TEST Would make a Fantastic Way to WEED OUT
the Tire Kickers and Whingers."

"So I Could TALK BY PHONE to Just a few TAKE-ACTION-TYPES.

And Thus it Came To Pass...

I Changed The LAST Paragraph at the End of The "B*illion D*ollar Referral System" S*Ales letter to say...

"You Get a F-r-e-e Copy of Our New Book if You PASS Our PAPER-PANTS-FLIRT- TEST..."

(EDITORS NOTE - Now My F*R*E*E book offer is Not BORING.)

https://moolahattraction.com/ac/bdrs.php

Thanks,
Glenn

P.S. - Gordon - In The Past Two Weeks you have written at least 2 Posts
wondering "How to Find People Who Take Action AND Now "How to Avoid Clients."

I'm not Suggesting you Use My PAPER PANTS idea. But the "QUALIFY" Concept
behind it might be worth Testing.

Thanks Glenn, may give a version of this a try with a new project. One thing I really like in your promotion is how you point out the uniqueness of your Mentors and some gurus. I've always said off the rack ideas don't fit everyone.

From Frank Kern, to Bill Myers and Walter Haily and Jay Abraham, Dan Kennedy and Gary Halbert (can you even imagine getting away with oogling your female seminar participants like Sir Gary did? He'd be deep on the #MEtoo list today)...you make a great point about

knowing who you are...

And not even wanting, or needing to do those things the mentors can do so easily, naturally and as a second nature. When some of us try on their "methods, techniques and manipulations", well they fit like glove at an OJ Simpson trial, eh?

Take the most useful, and that is always of a personal nature, away from the gurus and mentors, but apply it in a way which best suits yourself.

I like that idea.

In MORE MONEY AND MORE FREE TIME, on page 2 (because I promised no fluff or filler) is the basis of it all...THE TRANSACTION.
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/gjbiz/gopromo.pdf

And the exchange of VALUE. You have applied the Hailey NEER formula more than anyone I know who was exposed to it...and the psychology behind RAPPORT, whether by paper pants, lottery tickets, confetti canons, or whatever technique is used...

gets that positive first impression, in effect GIVING before you GET, or as Harvey Brody might assert, controlling the magnet under the table to get the iron filings on top to look like you want them too...

is, obviously a very powerful piece of the overall strategy of sales. Helping a business GET profits first, is (in my opinion) as good as it gets to secure positive energy and future profits, albeit, while learning not to get a phone number in return, and actually getting our fair EXCHANGE OF VALUE.

With information, I long ago quit wondering or concerning myself with someone else application...once they have it, its on them to use it (I always thought Jim Straw and Dean DuVall's upfront NO REFUNDS policy was a good idea, and I use it myself adding an extra step for even a simple two page 10 buck report.

Anyhow, I like the paper pants, may order some for myself, save on doing laundry.

Maybe use some spray glue, a confetti canon and make them look really groovy. I admire what you do, albeit, you have some uniqueness which I could never even attempt, like those guru/mentor examples at your promotion. But I do like how you qualify people.

No sense wasting time with Time Wasters, eh? Would love to know, if you care to share, how many opt for the 13k buy rather than having to do something. Bet there might be a few out there, good golly man, asking people to actually do something? HA!

Thanks for some great ideas Glenn, you are appreciated.

GordonJ
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/gjbiz/gopromo.pdf
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  #8  
Old April 26, 2018, 01:38 PM
Glenn Glenn is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,240
Default Paper-Pants - Private-Parts Sun Burn - WARNING

"Anyhow, I like the paper pants, may order some for myself, save on doing laundry."

Thanks Gordon,

At a Time When Sheriff Departments are posting Digital (Color Co-ordinated - Pac-Man-Like Dots That CHANGE color as Kids DIE) VIDEOS of a local
Terrorists Path - As He Shot his way thru a school in Florida.

And Other EYEBALL POPPING Videos and Photos.

All of us COPYWRITERS must realize we have to UP OUR PRINT GAME
if we want to get our WORDS Noticed.

Which is THE REASON WHY I am always looking for GOOFY STUFF
to GOLDEN RULE TEST and then WRITE about.

That said.

I Should Warn You About The PAPER PANTS.

They are a Bit Diaphenous.

Hmmm.

That doesn't look Right. Let me google it.

(EDITORS NOTE - Remember when we had to fetch a DICTIONARY to look up a word? And if you couldn't SPELL it you Couldn't FIND it? - Google has REALLY Truly helped me out with their SMART Word Recognition Software.)

Ok - "Diaphanous."

Meaning, SEE THRU.

So Gordon - Please DO NOT throw away your Regular Pants Yet.

Unless you wanna Imitate The EMPEROR in The "Emperors New Clothes" Hans Christian Anderson Short Story.

AND another tip.

When you MAGIC MARKER A "Thank You" on one leg of these Diaphanous Paper Pants you might put some newspaper underneath.

They are THAT THIN.

Yet they didn't TEAR when I put a Test Pair on over My Blue Jeans.

Explains WHY they can sell 'em for 1.95 each and still make a profit.

Thanks,
Glenn
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