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-   -   Mass Market VS Sophisticated Market – CONSULTING (http://www.sowpub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11068)

MikePT August 10, 2021 12:37 PM

Mass Market VS Sophisticated Market – CONSULTING
 
When selling to a sophisticated audience can visual layout MAKE IT OR BREAK IT?

NOTE: I putted "Consulting" on the title but the question is really for both Products and Services in general.

And i said purposefully "sophisticated market" because "rich market" is too broad.

A person can be a "nouveau riche" with lot of money and not sophisticated – and vice versa.

I am sharing here this AD that is on Drayton's website for Bentley: https://draytonbird.com/the-proof-of...dding/bentley/

The AD is gorgeous.

And, of course, when selling anything visual (like jewlery) the photos have to be TOP photos.

However I am asking specifically on the visual layout when targeting "sophisticated markets" – regardless of the product.


Maybe more important that the visuals are the medium. Like a well regarded print magazine.


Your thoughts?

Thank you all.

MikePT August 10, 2021 02:24 PM

Re: Mass Market VS Sophisticated Market – CONSULTING
 
While I was thinking on this, I have came across on this:

What I mean with "sophisticated"?

Sophisticated in general?

• high educated people?
• society power people?
• old rich generation?
• the cream of the cream of society?
• rich AND simultaneously sophisticated people?
• sophisticated people born in highly sophisticated Families?
• people who know how to recognize intrisic VALUE on things?

Or, sophisticated on the buying process?

• generally people who are used to buy a lot of expensive and high quality stuff
• generally people who are used to buy FASTER stuff with no dramas
• generally people used to buy on a particulary medium
• generally people who are used to buy on "X" market
generally people who are used to buy a that type of product

I am just sharing my process thoughts.

Probably I was thinking on this segment when I thought on "sophisticated people":

people who know how to recognize intrisic VALUE on things and generally people who are used to buy FASTER stuff with no dramas.

Opinions are welcomed.

Thanks.

Dien Rice August 11, 2021 04:52 AM

It depends on the customer...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikePT (Post 42182)
When selling to a sophisticated audience can visual layout MAKE IT OR BREAK IT?

NOTE: I putted "Consulting" on the title but the question is really for both Products and Services in general.

And i said purposefully "sophisticated market" because "rich market" is too broad.

A person can be a "nouveau riche" with lot of money and not sophisticated – and vice versa.

I am sharing here this AD that is on Drayton's website for Bentley: https://draytonbird.com/the-proof-of...dding/bentley/

The AD is gorgeous.

And, of course, when selling anything visual (like jewlery) the photos have to be TOP photos.

However I am asking specifically on the visual layout when targeting "sophisticated markets" – regardless of the product.


Maybe more important that the visuals are the medium. Like a well regarded print magazine.

Your thoughts?

Thank you all.

Hi Mike,

Whether visual layout is important depends on what the customer is looking for!

Customers for Bentleys are mostly looking for STATUS vehicles, I would say...

They want a car put together which is better, made out of better materials, runs better, won't fall apart, has better engineering, etc., compared to other cars...

They want a car which the manufacturer spent money on, and in return, they're willing to spend big money to buy it...

So, a company that spends BIG MONEY on making a slick-looking ad reflects exactly what the customer is looking for! They want a manufacturer willing to spend big money to make the car!

Now, let's say a customer, instead, is looking for a grandmother's home made jam, from a traditional recipe within the family, passed from mother to daughter...

A very expensive, slick ad probably does NOT reflect what they are looking for! In fact, it would convey the OPPOSITE of what they want...

In fact, probably a hand-written ad would reflect much better what they want... Something traditional, folksy, home-made...

It all depends what the customer is looking for...

The business which provides better what the customer is looking for - and can communicate that - will in most cases win...!

Here's an absolutely crazy ad along these lines (that worked)... By Bill Glazer, long-known as Dan Kennedy's business partner...

Bill Glazer ran men's clothing stores...

Here's a completely hand-written 5-page direct mail ad! It's almost the opposite of the Bentley ad... It looks amateurish!

But who is it appealing to? It's appealing to those who want a BIG DISCOUNT on their clothing!

They're NOT looking for the most expensive, most exquisite tailoring... They want someone who needs to sell at a big discount, needs to sell cheap, so they (the customer) can save a lot of money!

Here's the first page... click on the link afterwards for the whole thing...



Full thing here...

http://oliluke.com/outrageous-direct-mail/

I hope that makes sense...

Best wishes!

Dien

MikePT August 11, 2021 07:56 AM

Re: Mass Market VS Sophisticated Market – CONSULTING
 
Hi Dien,

Thank you for your reply.

It makes sense... Depends what on product/service the person wants. As a elegant Home Decor service it is important having an elegant layout. Even if its advertising an sale discount.

About Bill Glazer I already knew that campaign. It is really something!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Mike

GordonJ August 12, 2021 12:22 PM

One opinion having worked with the "sophisticated markets: is...
 
My opinion...

Advertisers and copywriters try to take too much credit.

"Sophisticated" targets with money...may become AWARE of the "loudest noise you hear is the clock ticking" sort of thing...

but when actually BUYING. The advertising and the brilliant copy has little to no effect on their purchasing habits. If they want it, they buy it.

I spent a lot of time watching people shop WORTH Ave., in Palm Beach and when they SEE something they want, they buy it.

In this upper scale market, however you define it, I'm convinced that advertising and copywriting don't have anywhere near the impact as the creators of that stuff would have you believe.

But AWARENESS of something, thus, SEEING it, in whatever media may be the most important part.

However, as anyone who knows me at all, knows what I'm about to say...

THE INTERSECTION of that awareness is the key to it all.

Gordon



Quote:

Originally Posted by MikePT (Post 42183)
While I was thinking on this, I have came across on this:

What I mean with "sophisticated"?

Sophisticated in general?

• high educated people?
• society power people?
• old rich generation?
• the cream of the cream of society?
• rich AND simultaneously sophisticated people?
• sophisticated people born in highly sophisticated Families?
• people who know how to recognize intrisic VALUE on things?

Or, sophisticated on the buying process?

• generally people who are used to buy a lot of expensive and high quality stuff
• generally people who are used to buy FASTER stuff with no dramas
• generally people used to buy on a particulary medium
• generally people who are used to buy on "X" market
generally people who are used to buy a that type of product

I am just sharing my process thoughts.

Probably I was thinking on this segment when I thought on "sophisticated people":

people who know how to recognize intrisic VALUE on things and generally people who are used to buy FASTER stuff with no dramas.

Opinions are welcomed.

Thanks.


GordonJ August 12, 2021 01:39 PM

Where the head goes, the body follows.
 
One of my oldest Seeds of Wisdom: Where the head goes, the body follows.

Taught to me by my Jr. High School football coach, as he was teaching me how to be a good pulling guard.

So, today, did your head go to YouTube? Facebook? Social Media?

I know several, maybe many, of SowPub readers like influence, persuasion, NLP, and COPYWRITING/salesmanship and probably visit those Facebook groups set up for copywriters.

And what does your head find there? Wonderful stories of success, sitting on the beach with a yellow pad writing out six figure checks anytime you want, right?

Even with Robert Collier, and David Ogilvy as well as any Kennedy/Glazer people...

I have to ask about TIMING, and the marketplace. David Ogilvy is credited with selling out every single Rolls-Royce made by his 1959 ad about a quiet clock.

Oh, really?

See, in 1959 there was new wealth, fast growing boomer babies, WW II guys with families and an UNPRECEDENTED growth of wealth in the world, for those who were cashing in.

Was it the ad? Or did the ad bring AWARENESS to people with money that the Rolls-Royce even existed? Did the Rolls-Royce outsell Cadillac that year or any other year, or was it because there were a limited supply available?

Well, if you belong to and believe all the copywriting gurus, OF COURSE, it was the copy. Very few have gone in the deep research waters as to the why, like I have.

I know what the American Civil War brought with it. I know the booms that come after every "finished" wars, and how those that drag on or end up in losses (albeit never referred to that way), and I am aware of TIMING in the world of reality.

Don't get me wrong, I study, write and use persuasive/sales copywriting and believe it makes a difference...but to give that much credit when other factors are at work, is just too much for me,

ESPECIALLY,

When selling the hope/dream comes into it. Magic words? Only good on the right person at the right time in the right place.

When one takes the time to INCLUDE all of that, and controls it, then you have the complete picture.

Gordon

Dien Rice August 13, 2021 06:17 PM

Improve this to dramatically improve your ad's response...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GordonJ (Post 42187)
My opinion...

Advertisers and copywriters try to take too much credit.

"Sophisticated" targets with money...may become AWARE of the "loudest noise you hear is the clock ticking" sort of thing...

but when actually BUYING. The advertising and the brilliant copy has little to no effect on their purchasing habits. If they want it, they buy it.

I spent a lot of time watching people shop WORTH Ave., in Palm Beach and when they SEE something they want, they buy it.

In this upper scale market, however you define it, I'm convinced that advertising and copywriting don't have anywhere near the impact as the creators of that stuff would have you believe.

But AWARENESS of something, thus, SEEING it, in whatever media may be the most important part.

However, as anyone who knows me at all, knows what I'm about to say...

THE INTERSECTION of that awareness is the key to it all.

Hi Gordon,

Your post reminded me of something...

Somewhere deep in the pages of one of the direct response marketing books I have, I remember reading...

This person said the OFFER is the most important part (if I remember right)...

If you want to dramatically increase your response - improve your OFFER...

All the other copywriting and persuasion elements do increase conversion, and can even mean the difference between success or failure...

But - at least according to this author - the actual offer is the most important element...

(I think he's probably right...)

Best wishes,

Dien

P.S. The offer means, what do they actually get, and for how much? The guarantee and any future support can also be part of the offer...

Dien Rice August 14, 2021 12:06 AM

I think you're right! Copy is overrated...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dien Rice (Post 42191)
Hi Gordon,

Your post reminded me of something...

Somewhere deep in the pages of one of the direct response marketing books I have, I remember reading...

This person said the OFFER is the most important part (if I remember right)...

If you want to dramatically increase your response - improve your OFFER...

All the other copywriting and persuasion elements do increase conversion, and can even mean the difference between success or failure...

But - at least according to this author - the actual offer is the most important element...

(I think he's probably right...)

Best wishes,

Dien

P.S. The offer means, what do they actually get, and for how much? The guarantee and any future support can also be part of the offer...

Hi Gordon,

The book I was thinking about was "Direct Marketing Success: What Works and Why" by Freeman F. Gosden, Jr...

In that book, he talks about the "40-40-20 Rule"...

To summarize, this "rule" says the success or failure of your direct marketing is due to...

40% - The Audience (i.e. the list)

40% - Who you are, your product or service, the offer

20% - Creative, format, postal

Among Richard Benson's 31 Secrets of Successful Direct Mail are...

"23. Lists are the most important ingredient to the success of a promotional
mailing.

"24. The offer is the second most important ingredient of direct mail."

http://www.nmoa.org/articles/dmnews/...sonsecrets.htm

However, Denny Hatch apparently estimates 40-40-20 is wrong, and that it's more...

"70% offer, 10% list, 20% creative for internet direct marketing..."

https://donnie-bryant.com/blog/chang...esponse-offer/

Then there's Axel Andersson's saying,

“If you want to dramatically increase your response, dramatically improve your offer.” – Axel Andersson

(Axel Andersson is a direct response marketer who's been cited often by Denny Hatch, and who provided 6 out of the 7 "Emotional Hot Buttons" Denny Hatch has written about...)

So - I think you're right!

Copy is overrated...

Yet is still important!

Best wishes,

Dien

GordonJ August 14, 2021 09:24 AM

Copy is IMPORTANT...for products which need copy to sell them.
 
You KNOW. You've been there. In the chair where copywriting is THE essential thing, BECAUSE, the offers needed to be sold.

Ever since Copywriting has become a Biz-Op, it is, of course, hyped and hawked as THE most important skill to have. But I again assert, there are more products, more easily sold, because copy isn't necessary.

So, sure...selling newsletters, make money courses, Internet Marketing and all of that stuff, good copy is needed.

As an Entrepreneur, I have ALWAYS encouraged folks starting out to find buyers first, and I still don't understand why anyone would START their business or money making ventures with a harder, more difficult route to go.

Do you know why? Is it because good copy tells them they can?

Gordon


Quote:

Originally Posted by Dien Rice (Post 42192)
Hi Gordon,

The book I was thinking about was "Direct Marketing Success: What Works and Why" by Freeman F. Gosden, Jr...

In that book, he talks about the "40-40-20 Rule"...

To summarize, this "rule" says the success or failure of your direct marketing is due to...

40% - The Audience (i.e. the list)

40% - Who you are, your product or service, the offer

20% - Creative, format, postal

Among Richard Benson's 31 Secrets of Successful Direct Mail are...

"23. Lists are the most important ingredient to the success of a promotional
mailing.

"24. The offer is the second most important ingredient of direct mail."

http://www.nmoa.org/articles/dmnews/...sonsecrets.htm

However, Denny Hatch apparently estimates 40-40-20 is wrong, and that it's more...

"70% offer, 10% list, 20% creative for internet direct marketing..."

https://donnie-bryant.com/blog/chang...esponse-offer/

Then there's Axel Andersson's saying,

“If you want to dramatically increase your response, dramatically improve your offer.” – Axel Andersson

(Axel Andersson is a direct response marketer who's been cited often by Denny Hatch, and who provided 6 out of the 7 "Emotional Hot Buttons" Denny Hatch has written about...)

So - I think you're right!

Copy is overrated...

Yet is still important!

Best wishes,

Dien


MikePT August 18, 2021 08:36 AM

Re: Mass Market VS Sophisticated Market – CONSULTING
 
Thanks for the reply Gordon.


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