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-   -   Motivation and the entrepreneur (http://www.sowpub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2992)

David Stoddard September 27, 2002 02:44 PM

Motivation and the entrepreneur
 
Hi all...

I have been online for about a year or so and continue to see so many business newsletters and sites and the like that say so much is possible if you put your mind and heart into it.

As a motivational writer (very very low budget Tony Robbins type) I have been interested in helping people change their lives for the better. But so many places I look around, there are so many more online businesses. A few of which seem successful, but many just don't quite get to the level of superstar.

I guess my question is how much of a role does motivation play in becomming successful? What motivates you to doing what you do? And does this so-called feel good stuff about you can be anything you want to be actually have an affect on you and your business?

Thanks for your time.

David




David Stoddard

Boyd Stone September 27, 2002 03:38 PM

Most people can't be what they want to be...
 
Hi,

Most people can't be what they want to be because they don't *know* what they want to be.

What a strange design: a creature born not knowing what it was born to be. So it drifts through life reactively rather than proactively.

I know what I want to be, but it took a freakin' *tremendous* amount of time and introspection and hard thinking to figure it out. I guess most people who know what they want to be found out through luck: they were doing something and they suddenly realized "This is what I want to do with my life." Jodie Foster is a great example of that kind of person.

Hope this helped!

- Boyd

Michael Ross September 27, 2002 06:27 PM

No Connection
 
> Hi all...

Hi, David, and welcome.

> I have been online for about a year or so
> and continue to see so many business
> newsletters and sites and the like that say
> so much is possible if you put your mind and
> heart into it.

And I notice that your site is one of those and also links to others of a similar type.

> As a motivational writer (very very low
> budget Tony Robbins type) I have been
> interested in helping people change their
> lives for the better. But so many places I
> look around, there are so many more online
> businesses. A few of which seem successful,
> but many just don't quite get to the level
> of superstar.

Okay, this is beginning to sound like a "I've got a friend who has this problem..." type of question. In other words... your site isn't at the superstar level as you had hoped. (That's the impression I get from your posting.)

> I guess my question is how much of a role
> does motivation play in becomming
> successful? What motivates you to doing what
> you do? And does this so-called feel good
> stuff about you can be anything you want to
> be actually have an affect on you and your
> business?

Now this is sounding even more strange... you are the Anthony Robbins "clone" so you should know whether this "motivation" plays a part in becoming successful, and whether this "feel good stuff" about being anything you want to be actually has an affect on you and your business. After all, it's what you teach, right? (You're not beginning to doubt the validity of your own teachings are you?)

Anyway. Here's the short answer...

"No."

In other words... the "feel good stuff" and the "you can do it because you can be anything you want to be" motivational stuff, has negligible affect on your success.

And if it appears to have an affect, it is your misinterpretation - you are thinking it's the "feel good stuff" and the "you can do it because you can be anything you want to be" motivational stuff, when it is really something else. And because you don't know what this other something is, you attribute it to the "feel good stuff" - if for no other reason than that is what has been touted for so long.

Fact is, if the "feel good stuff" and the "you can do it because you can be anything you want to be" motivational stuff, worked as promised, a lot more people would go on to greater success than do.

What's the answer?

The answer... the missing element that none of the "gurus" have written about explicitly, which is THE power source which can actually drive you to do things - even things you didn't believe you could do - is revealed in The Success Report (and as such, I am not going to reveal it here).

So if you want to know, put down the few bucks being asked and order it. You'll be able to download it immedately (even though the page says it is sent to you via email).

Michael Ross


Get "The Success Report" Here

Bilal Babic September 27, 2002 09:41 PM

Re: Motivation and the entrepreneur
 
Motivation and following is vitally important to me.

Long ago I heard these very wise words: "find someone
in life where you want to be, do what they did to get
there, don't do what they didn't do, and you will have
what they have".

Bilal


FREE YourName.com .net .org! Yes FREE!

Robert M. Campbell September 27, 2002 10:18 PM

Wasn't it Jim Rohn who said ...
 
Motivation is over-rated and that skills are what is required to be successful.

To make his point, Mr. Rohn said: "If you motivate an idiot, all you have is a motivated idiot."

Robert M. Campbell

Dien Rice September 27, 2002 10:38 PM

Re: Motivation and the entrepreneur
 
Hi David,

I think good solid hunger to achieve something can certainly help drive you to success. It has to be strong enough to push you through the obstacles you will undoubtedly encounter, and to stop you from giving up....

Does "Tony Robbins"-style motivation do that? I can't say for sure, but my feeling is that often people go to a seminar, get all pumped up, go home - and it wears off in a few days or so.

The motivation I'm referring to is much deeper and more of a solid driving force....

Another important thing about motivation, I think, is to have belief in yourself.... I know it's a kind of cliche, but if you don't believe you can do something, you won't bother trying... And if you never even try, then of course, you can't accomplish.

It's not the whole answer, but I think things like this can be an important FIRST step.... It will help drive you to try more things, learn more, and make more contacts - until you do succeed....

Well, that's my opinion anyhow.... ;)

- Dien Rice


Dave Barry's impressions of a Tony Robbins seminar... (pretty funny) :)

Dennis Bevers September 27, 2002 10:59 PM

Re: Motivation and the entrepreneur
 
I think another way to look at it is:

Are you passionate about what you do. If you believe in your product (or service) and enjoy your work, it is much easier to remain motivated.

And for those opting for self-employment, they better have more motivation than earning income to keep the lights on.

Dennis Bevers

Michael S. Winicki September 27, 2002 11:52 PM

Success & Motivation
 
Good question...

And some good insight by Boyd, Michael and the others.

Many use "Motivation" as a way to boost "Self-Confidence". Think of motivation and self-confidence as two different guages. One goes to a Mr. Robbins seminar or hears an audio program by Dennis Waitley or some other motivational pro and wha-la they leave motivated and this gives them an instant self-confidence boost. Suddenly both guages are on "high". The problem being motivation wears off quickly. The guage drops and with it the self-confidence drops also. This is a problem. Most people don't have the capacity to quickly turn their newly found self-confidence into at least some minor victories, which adds even more self confidence.

Business is a marathon and not a sprint. Rah-rah motivation burns out long before the 'tipping point' of the business is reached. This is the point where a business is earning a profit for its owner.

As I've gotten older I've agreed more and more with the view point of author Mr. Robert Fritz, who says motivation is not necessary for one to reach their goals. He cites artists of all shapes and sizes that create works of art no matter what their motivational state. Mr. Fritz believes that if a person's structure is not of the correct type then a rah-rah motivational speach will indeed motivate short-term. But as the person tries to maintain the motivation level and use if for success, the person's structure stretches just like a rubber band. In a bad structure (to read more about 'structures' you should visit Fritz's web site at www.robertfritz.com) eventually the 'rubber band' effect takes place and the person is whipped back to the previous unmotivated, no self-confidence state. I don't think this oscillating pattern of extreme motivation and extreme lack of motivation is good or healthy. Plus it destroys the person's ability to build a level of self-confidence that lasts for any length of time.

I work with a lot of entrepreneurs and would-be entrepreneurs. The difference between the two is not motivation but self-confidence. The successful know and expect to make mistakes and they give themselves a chance to do that without beating themselves up over it. The unsuccessful worry about things that could happen (but probably not) like they could end up in 'debtor's prison' or someone could take away their birthday.

Anyway good question,

Mike Winicki

sandy September 28, 2002 01:50 PM

Question about 1 of your points
 
The successful know and
> expect to make mistakes and they give
> themselves a chance to do that without
> beating themselves up over it. The
> unsuccessful worry about things that could
> happen (but probably not) like they could
> end up in 'debtor's prison' or someone could
> take away their birthday.

Michael you mentioned you work with people
who fall into these 2 categories. From what
you've heard from these people what things
happened in their life to cause them to
have more confidence?

Thanks Sandy

Michael S. Winicki September 28, 2002 02:23 PM

Good Question!
 
Sandy,

There isn't usually a single event or occurance that causes someone's self-confidence to bloom to the point of someone getting a business launched (that I've noticed).

But this is what most folks are constantly on the look out for. That "last" missing piece of information or whatever that suddenly fills their self-confidence guage to the point of actually going forward with their business plan.

Now that is not to say that single events can't cause someone to take the leap and become a real entrepreneur. I've come across a lot of people that have started businesses because of a job loss or layoff. Now I wouldn't call that a self-confidence boosting occurance would you? But I would bet job loss creates more entrepreneurs in business than any other single event.

Personally I think self-confidence is way over-rated when it comes to the tools one needs to start a business. I believe just plain old-fashioned courage is far more important.

What is business 'courage'? To me it's the ability to act when you are financially and professionally scared to pull out that credit card or take out a loan to start that business you've been dreaming of...but you go forward and do it anyway.

Take care,

Mike Winicki

Linda September 28, 2002 11:31 PM

It is not courage, nor self confidence, nor motivation. It's....
 
Hi all!

What an interesting thread.

So many are looking for the secret to success. Seeking that special "something" that a select few have, and that drives people to success.

Is it self confidence? No.
Is it motivation? No.
Is it courage? Knowledge? No.

Folks... the difference... is tenacity.

The late Irving Stone spent a lifetime writing novelized biographies of men such as Michelangelo, Vincent van Gogh, Sigmund Freud, and Charles Darwin. Stone was once asked if he had found a thread that runs through the lives of exceptional people. He said;

"They are beaten over the head, knocked down, vilified, and for years they get nowhere. But every time they're knocked down they stand up. You cannot destroy these people. And at the end of their lives they've accomplished some modest part of what they set out to do."

And this one, by Calvin Coolidge;

Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.

Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
(Calvin Coolidge)

As Michael notes.... motivation wears off when the motivator isn't around.

Knowledge isn't enough. Plenty of people have knowledge and fail to apply it.

Self confidence isn't the solution. Plenty of people with self confidence don't have the persistance and tenacity to stick with a project long enough to make it a success.

Courage isn't enough. Courage can be short term, or long term. Tenacity and persistence will be the determining factor.

But the entrepreneur that just WILL NOT QUIT, and that will greet each failure with that approach of "Okay... that's one way that doesn't work. I'll try another" instead of throwing in the towel... that's the one that will eventually make it.

Do you know why WD40 is named that? Because the first 39 combinations of ingredients didn't work. How many entrepreneurs do YOU know that will still be trying after they have failed 39 times?

Much like a successful business owner that's a client of mine. He'd had 12 businesses go down the tubes. Failed. Bankrupt. His 13th was the winner. The one he excelled at.

Tenacity. Do you have it?

Just my two cents...

Linda




Shocking Truths about Business Online!

Michael Ross September 29, 2002 02:34 AM

Close... but no cigar.
 
Hi Linda!

This certainly is an interesting thread.

What is particularly interesting is how close some people are to the REAL, underlying driving force, but not quite close enough.

Tenacity. Determination. Persistence. Are all fine things to have. There is no denying that. And those attributes have been touted by the "gurus" for ages.

But even they miss the real driving force. They fail to look one level deeper.

What makes someone tenacious? What makes someone determined? What makes someone persist?

Fine to say to persist, or to be determined, or to be tenacious. But these aren't things that can be switched on like a light. - Not unless you know the force which drives those things.

It's not written about in "Unlimited Power" or "Think And Grow Rich" or "Success Through A Positive Mental Attitude" or "The Greatest Salesman In The World" or "The Richest Man In Babylon" or "The Magic of Thinking Big" or "The Success System That Never Fails" or "Riches Within Your Reach" or "The Lazy Man's Way To Riches" or whatever other book on success you can name.

There is no chapter, or book, by these gurus that deals with the underlying driving force explicitly.

It may be in their books... buried deep somewhere and only someone who knows what it is will actually spot it. For instance, it is on page 83 of The Lazy Man's Way To Riches but it is never stated. It is hidden. And I don't think hidden on purpose. Hidden only because it happened to be part of what Karbo was writing about. Because if he knew what it was, he would surely have mentioned it. In fact, if any of the gurus knew it, they would mention it in their books.

They would cease telling everyone to have a positive mental attitude, and belief, and affirmations and so on, because those things aren't necessary when you know the real driving force.

You have even used it. It's in your story posted on the front page of Sowpub (http://www.sowpub.com/story-startingwithlittle.shtml) but you never explicitly mention it.

I use it. Dien uses it. The results are here to see. What it is exactly, though, is not mentioned, and has not yet been mentioned in this thread. And as I said earlier, I am not going to mention it either because it's in The Success Report and if you want to know the underlying force that actually powers it all... the thing that makes you persist, be determined and be tenacious, then invest a few bucks and get it.

Michael Ross


Get "The Success Report" here

Pete Godfrey September 29, 2002 05:00 PM

Re: Close... but no cigar.
 
> Hi Michael,

I bought the success report yesterday and what you reveal is absolutely true. It' the main reason that drives me to finish my offline newsletter on time, even though friends and family beckon me on a Sunday afternoon. It gets me up early in the morning when my family is still alseep ... making sure I have returned all the answers to questions from my subscribers. It's the force that keeps me going when I start a new project, keeps me focused until it is complete.

Michael, I buy a lot of info products. Some a good, some fall short of the advertising copy. Your success report lived up to it's promises and more.

Now I've always known about what you reveal ... but I've never articulated it ... never been able to leverage this concept in my business.

That has now changed. So thanks to you Michael, I will now rectify the situation.

Pete Godfrey

Hi Linda!

> This certainly is an interesting thread.

> What is particularly interesting is how
> close some people are to the REAL,
> underlying driving force, but not quite
> close enough.

> Tenacity. Determination. Persistence. Are
> all fine things to have. There is no denying
> that. And those attributes have been touted
> by the "gurus" for ages.

> But even they miss the real driving force.
> They fail to look one level deeper.

> What makes someone tenacious? What makes
> someone determined? What makes someone
> persist?

> Fine to say to persist, or to be determined,
> or to be tenacious. But these aren't things
> that can be switched on like a light. - Not
> unless you know the force which drives those
> things.

> It's not written about in "Unlimited
> Power" or "Think And Grow
> Rich" or "Success Through A
> Positive Mental Attitude" or "The
> Greatest Salesman In The World" or
> "The Richest Man In Babylon" or
> "The Magic of Thinking Big" or
> "The Success System That Never
> Fails" or "Riches Within Your
> Reach" or "The Lazy Man's Way To
> Riches" or whatever other book on
> success you can name.

> There is no chapter, or book, by these gurus
> that deals with the underlying driving force
> explicitly.

> It may be in their books... buried deep
> somewhere and only someone who knows what it
> is will actually spot it. For instance, it
> is on page 83 of The Lazy Man's Way To
> Riches but it is never stated. It is hidden.
> And I don't think hidden on purpose. Hidden
> only because it happened to be part of what
> Karbo was writing about. Because if he knew
> what it was, he would surely have mentioned
> it. In fact, if any of the gurus knew it,
> they would mention it in their books.

> They would cease telling everyone to have a
> positive mental attitude, and belief, and
> affirmations and so on, because those things
> aren't necessary when you know the real
> driving force.

> You have even used it. It's in your story
> posted on the front page of Sowpub
> (http://www.sowpub.com/story-startingwithlittle.shtml)
> but you never explicitly mention it.

> I use it. Dien uses it. The results are here
> to see. What it is exactly, though, is not
> mentioned, and has not yet been mentioned in
> this thread. And as I said earlier, I am not
> going to mention it either because it's in
> The Success Report and if you want to know
> the underlying force that actually powers it
> all... the thing that makes you persist, be
> determined and be tenacious, then invest a
> few bucks and get it.

> Michael Ross

Phil Gomez September 30, 2002 07:58 AM

Combine Ross & Fritz ...
 
Boy, this has been an interesting thread.

I'm glad to see that Robert Fritz was brought up. He has some important things to say. I particularly enjoyed Creating, but The Path of Least Resistance had some important points, too.

However, I've read the Success Report too and there's no denying that Michael has hit on a very important point (and, you know, it is strange that I've never read about it explicitly anywhere else before).

In my opinion, use Fritz to get you thinking about and started in a direction. Use Ross to carry you there faster and more surely than you could otherwise.

Best,
Phil

sandy September 30, 2002 12:51 PM

Another question re "fear of failure"
 
> One of the areas I'm interested in
in Fritz's work involves that of becoming
"seperated from what you do"....

Before reading Michael's report and Fritz's
works did you grapple with this issue and
if so how did you become objective enough to
seperate yourself from "what you do" so the
"feeling of failure"(if you will, for lack
of a better definition) is reduced...

Thanks in advance for any contributors on this
subject

Here is a summation of Fritz's theory; scroll
to the bottom of the article if you don't want
to read the whole thing(although the whole article
helps put everything into perspective)

So that others who are reading this thread
can track the discussion I've pasted an
article from Fritz's site. Near the end of
the article is a summation of his theory
on creating. It's the "lesson on seperation"
I'm referring to.

http://www.robertfritz.com/writingspaint.htm

Phil Gomez September 30, 2002 02:53 PM

Separation, resistance, and writing...
 
> in Fritz's work involves that of becoming
> "seperated from what you do"....

> Before reading Michael's report and Fritz's
> works did you grapple with this issue and
> if so how did you become objective enough to
> seperate yourself from "what you
> do" so the
> "feeling of failure"(if you will,
> for lack
> of a better definition) is reduced...

I did at one point although I didn't realize it at the time. You see, I work as a writer and a few years ago I suffered from a great, well, "resistance" to writing. It wasn't that I didn't want to write, nor that I wasn't comfortable with it. My M.A. is in writing and I felt that it couldn't be because I didn't know enough.

Well, long story short, it was due to two things: 1) I wasn't effectively getting the information I needed from my colleagues, and 2) I wasn't comfortable putting anything down on paper that wasn't "perfect."

Actually, I think my training in writing worked against me psychologically: when you have a degree in writing from a semi-presitgious school, I think there's more pressure to live up to expectations. Unfortunately, that kind of thinking is disasterous for a writer. You often have to write down some lousy material before your best work will appear.

The biggest help to me in overcoming my "resistance" was a book by Peter Elbow, called Writing with Power. I was drawn to the book because the author also went through a period of about two years where he "couldn't write." I could relate to that, so I picked up the book. It's an excellent read. The one exercise in chapter two, if practiced regularly, will do wonders for overcoming any "resistance" you may have about writing.

It was after I'd cleared that up that I realized I needed to work on my information-gathering skills. I have and am still improving that area as well.

Years later, I read Fritz's Path of Least Resistance and his discussion of separation struck a major chord with me. (By the way, I think it was a post by Michael Winiki that first sparked my interest in Robert Fritz.) He's so right: you are not your work.

I didn't realize how much of an issue this idea of separation was for many people until I'd read that book. So many people take their work and, particularly any criticism of their work, personally.

Listen, just because someone has a criticism or a comment about something you've done doesn't mean that his/her comment is worth anything. By seeing yourself as separate from your work, you can be objective (at least, much more so) about it and you can better evaluate other's responses.

Look at some of the successfully independent business-people who post on this board. Notice how opinionated they are. I don't mean that in any perjorative sense -- rather, its a reflection about how they are separate from their work. They know what they like and don't like and they don't let other's views control their perceptions of themselves or their work. You'll see the same kind of opinionated-ness in artists of all kinds.

Contrast that frame of mind with the culture of, say, academia. It's a night-and-day difference.

Best,
-Phil




Learn an investment strategy that has made millionaires...

sandy September 30, 2002 04:10 PM

Re: Separation, resistance, and writing...
 
Thanks Phil..your comments were enlightening;
for some reason I tend to my best work when
I don't look at what anyone else is doing...
for some reason this "comparison" attitude
sets in and blocks progress....

Many people either consciously or unconsciously
think they can inspire or motivate people by
berating others or trying to compare what you've
done by what they've done. That doesn't work
for me....

I tend to do more when I focus on "what I want"
...it's been a process; because my training
has been to seek the approval of others(that's
another story)

I did at one point although I didn't realize
> it at the time. You see, I work as a writer
> and a few years ago I suffered from a great,
> well, "resistance" to writing. It
> wasn't that I didn't want to write, nor that
> I wasn't comfortable with it. My M.A. is in
> writing and I felt that it couldn't be
> because I didn't know enough.

> Well, long story short, it was due to two
> things: 1) I wasn't effectively getting the
> information I needed from my colleagues, and
> 2) I wasn't comfortable putting anything
> down on paper that wasn't
> "perfect."

> Actually, I think my training in writing
> worked against me psychologically: when you
> have a degree in writing from a
> semi-presitgious school, I think there's
> more pressure to live up to expectations.
> Unfortunately, that kind of thinking is
> disasterous for a writer. You often have to
> write down some lousy material before your
> best work will appear.

> The biggest help to me in overcoming my
> "resistance" was a book by Peter
> Elbow, called Writing with Power . I was
> drawn to the book because the author also
> went through a period of about two years
> where he "couldn't write." I could
> relate to that, so I picked up the book.
> It's an excellent read. The one exercise in
> chapter two, if practiced regularly, will do
> wonders for overcoming any
> "resistance" you may have about
> writing.

> It was after I'd cleared that up that I
> realized I needed to work on my
> information-gathering skills. I have and am
> still improving that area as well.

> Years later, I read Fritz's Path of Least
> Resistance and his discussion of separation
> struck a major chord with me. (By the way, I
> think it was a post by Michael Winiki that
> first sparked my interest in Robert Fritz.)
> He's so right: you are not your work.

> I didn't realize how much of an issue this
> idea of separation was for many people until
> I'd read that book. So many people take
> their work and, particularly any criticism
> of their work, personally.

> Listen, just because someone has a criticism
> or a comment about something you've done
> doesn't mean that his/her comment is worth
> anything. By seeing yourself as separate
> from your work, you can be objective (at
> least, much more so) about it and you can
> better evaluate other's responses.

> Look at some of the successfully independent
> business-people who post on this board.
> Notice how opinionated they are. I don't
> mean that in any perjorative sense --
> rather, its a reflection about how they are
> separate from their work. They know what
> they like and don't like and they don't let
> other's views control their perceptions of
> themselves or their work. You'll see the
> same kind of opinionated-ness in artists of
> all kinds.

> Contrast that frame of mind with the culture
> of, say, academia. It's a night-and-day
> difference.

> Best,
> -Phil

Thomas Rice September 30, 2002 09:33 PM

How you view Failure could determine your Success....
 
I think that motivation, self-confidence, intelligence, and a whole range of other factors all play a part in the ultimate success of the entrepreneur. I would guess that some of these factors are related, also. For example, if somebody is self-confident (and therefore believes in their ability), they will probably be more motivated to try to achieve what they want. In some cases, someone lacking self-confidence may also lack motivation due to the belief they can't do something in particular.

Another factor I think is very important is how the entrepreneur view of failure. This isn't necessarily in business endeavours, but in general. I think there a really two main ways different people view failure, being:

Type A. Failure means they're not good at something.. It's bad.. They should try and forget the failure as soon as possible and get on with something else.

Type B. Failure's a normal part of life, and indicates an action they took was wrong. So they don't get upset over it, but analyse the situation, work out what's wrong, and become better at that particular task.

I think most people are either Type A or Type B, or somewhere inbetween depending on the circumstances.

To be a successful entrepeneur, I really think it helps to be a Type B person, because it really helps facilitate pushing forward and learning as you go.

Unfortunately, I think many people are really Type A people. Why is this? I'm not sure, but if I had to guess, it's probably a product of the school environment most people go through.

In my prior classroom experience, I tend to find that when teachers ask questions, students rarely raise their hands to answer unless they know they are right. There's a very big reluctance to answer and get things wrong, and I think many people come away from this experience "learning" that to fail is a bad, shameful, embarrassing thing.

When in reality, it's probably the best way to really learn something. :)

- Thomas.

Dien Rice October 1, 2002 12:18 AM

Praise versus criticism for motivation....
 
Hi Sandy,

> Many people either consciously or
> unconsciously
> think they can inspire or motivate people by
> berating others or trying to compare what you've
> done by what they've done. That doesn't work
> for me....

Sandy, thanks for your insightful comments.... :)

By the way, on what you said above, I've read an interview with Richard Branson where he says he practically never criticizes his employees....

"I will praise, praise, praise," [Richard Branson] says, "and only criticize if they are going to kill themselves crossing the road. People know when they've done things wrong; they don't need to be told. When I write my letters to employees, you'll never see a line of criticism."

(I've linked to the article this is from below - it's from the second-last page of the article....)

I think Richard Branson is known as someone who can really inspire his employees - in general, from what I hear, people love to work for Virgin.... I think constant criticism often doesn't really help much, it's much better to praise when people do things right.... I think it can make a big difference....

Just my opinion. :)

- Dien Rice


How Richard Branson Works Magic

sandy October 1, 2002 12:57 AM

Thanks--I'll share it with the boss ;-)dno (DNO)
 


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