The Game & Lifestyle Epiphany

Companies that do not advertise or promote go out of business or bought by someone that does these things.

Jiffy Mix I heard of so where they adverise. I just do not recall were I heard about them.

Gordon could you be wrong?

Originally Posted by Joetrevison

Companies that do not advertise or promote go out of business or bought by someone that does these things.

I know of several businesses in my town that don't advertise. 100% of their business is by referral, or repeat business based on their product quality and reputation.

I told one of the owners that I'd given him a recommendation on a local chat board, and he groaned "I have more business now than I can handle".

If you have a high quality product that people desperately need, you'll have to get a stick to keep them away. It only takes one referral to get the ball rolling.

You said...

"I told one of the owners that I'd given him a recommendation on a local chat board, and he groaned "I have more business now than I can handle".

If you have a high quality product that people desperately need, you'll have to get a stick to keep them away. It only takes one referral to get the ball rolling."

That doesn't really prove anything. There's a big difference between having 'enough' -- or even 'more than enough' -- customers, and getting as many customer as you can.

There are plenty of biz's who have 'enough' customers. Most biz's have 'enough' customers. I run into them all the time.

That's is no indication of how many MORE customers they would/could get via using *active* marketing methods (soliciting, etc.). Just because they don't HAVE to expand, doesn't mean they shouldn't expand. Imo, if (even) THOSE types of biz's tried, they'd find they could increase their biz by a factor of 700-1,000% by using active methods.

Saying 'all the customers they can handle' is meaningless, really.

What they really mean (usually) is, 'all the customers they WANT.'

-- TW

Originally Posted by -TW

That doesn't really prove anything.

Sure it does. It proves that Joe's statement, about businesses that don't advertise, is false.

Originally Posted by -TW

Saying 'all the customers they can handle' is meaningless, really.

It means that an additional customer would have to wait in line to be served. Remember, I was talking about desperate need, not somebody wanting a hamburger.

Originally Posted by -TW

What they really mean (usually) is, 'all the customers they WANT.'

-- TW

The guy told me he had all the business he could handle. I took him at his word.

By way of further explanation, these businesses are technical trades businesses. Like air conditioner guys, roofers, and like that. Each of them decided to start their own shop to get rid of a boss. Each of them are highly skilled at their trades, nice guys who give good service, and have no idea how to run a business much less grow a business. They have just created their own jobs.

Even so, none of them advertise or promote in any way, and have all the business they can handle.

Not everybody wants to be rich and famous, or employ hundreds of workers while sitting on the beach. Some guys enjoy their work and as long as they can make a good living at it they're happy.

Originally Posted by Bozo

Not everybody wants to be rich and famous, or employ hundreds of workers while sitting on the beach. Some guys enjoy their work and as long as they can make a good living at it they're happy.

Oh, I see what you mean -- one person operations who want to stay that way. Nothing wrong with that. To some, that's the ultimate.

All I'm saying is, if they DID want to expand, they could -- and the best way to do that (is / may be) to go the 'soliciting' route.

We may agree on that. I see your point was, it IS possible to have 'enough' work -- or even 'more than enough' work via the 'magnet' route. Yes, I'd agree with that. But that's no indicator of how much more work would or wouldn't come from going the 'outgoing' route (if they ever did do that).

Sorry if I misinterpreted what you were saying.

-- TW

Originally Posted by -TW

All I'm saying is, if they DID want to expand, they could -- and the best way to do that (is / may be) to go the 'soliciting' route.

-- TW

Just for the sake of conversation...

Your statement here could also be wrong.

I experienced this myself. Tiny niche business, less than 2,500 people active in it in the USA at any one time, highly skilled people, highly dangerous, extremely technical work. So my partner and I decided we'd had enough of 'their' way of doing things and started up our own operation.

We spent months visiting and talking to every potential customer in the area. We banged on doors, made phone calls, sent letters, offered cut rates, and let ourselves be seen and known.

Our service was one that nobody wanted, because it is so expensive, but when they needed it they desperately needed it.

All that, and we got zero work. Nothing.

And then, when the desperate need reached it's peak, a competitor stumbled and got behind in his work.

That's when we learned that we'd been soliciting the wrong people. The whole business was controlled by ONE person...who had a contract with all the people we'd been talking to.

HE didn't care if we lived or died, until HE needed us.

At that point, our quality of work proved itself and from then on we had more than we could handle safely.

Maybe your statement would be better as "and the best way to do that (is / may be) to go the properly targeted 'soliciting' route."

I thought that went without saying (targeted).

The list, or 'universe' is the most important thing to get right (first).

Soliciting well to a bad list will produce nothing, yet soliciting (even) badly to a good list will produce SOME results.

The WHO is more important than the HOW.

Also, one can make a list of who qualifies, without their knowledge or consent.

-- TW

[GordonJ]

Originally Posted by -TW

Ankesh + I have had this discussion at least once before.


Imo, here are the 3 "B"s to avoid at all costs (because they are myths)...

"B"e a magnet.

"B"uild a better mousetrap and the wolrd will beat a path to your door.

"B"uilt it and they will come.


-- TW

Out in the desert between Phoenix and Tucson is the world center for Skydiving. The area is the "world" capital for skydiving.

There is a 40 million dollar simulator wind tunnel. They built it. And people come.

From all over the world. From the military. From every state.

In Northwest Ohio is Cedar Point...with the greatest number of roller coasters in the world...they built roller coasters...and people come.

Disneyland, Disneyworld.

There ARE many examples of "build it, and they will come" fields of dreams out there. Knowing what your market wants preceeds this, but it is not a "myth", imo.

Also, a better mousetrap? I got a new can opener for Christmas (what a silly gift I thought)...it is great. One of those one button push ones that cut the lid off without sharp edges...works GREAT. It is a far superior MOUSETRAP than what WAS out there.

They apparently have done some pretty big business too, OF COURSE they used push advertising with infomercials...there are scores of examples of building a better mousetrap...and the better mousetrap does attract a market.

But, I'm not going to beat what I consider to be a "dead horse" discussion with you TW, fair enough?

gja

Would you agree that having, "build it and they will come" as your marketing plan is risky, at best? -- Akin to buying a lottery ticket.

For every example of that idea being successful, I can, of course, give you millions that were not.

Besides, Disney World advertises -- a lot. Do they have the numbers to justify all that outlay? I'm sure they do. Even as big a 'magnet' as they are.

-- TW

[GordonJ]

Originally Posted by -TW

Would you agree that having, "build it and they will come" as your marketing plan is risky, at best? -- Akin to buying a lottery ticket.

-- TW

TW,

I'm NOT in disagreement with what you said, but, as Ankesh put forth the subject...and maybe Magnet is too strong...or doesn't work because of all the hype and the great job the Kennedy's and Abraham's of the world have done.

So, in that regard, I DO agree with you.

But, in so much of the b2b, especially manufacturing specialty products...there is a ton of business taking place because someone has built it...and without much more than "we exist" advertising (say in Thomas Register)...

people are being ATTRACTED to them.

As for our marketing discussion, let's say we shift gears and offer up examples of a TOTAL plan, a real life marketing plan that gets away from the hype of the marketers with a 499 product to sell you on HOW TO sit in your underwear, or out by the pool sipping Mai-tais...and have people drive by your estate and toss 100 dollar bills into your new Bentley.

I GET that part. I have a really disappointing copy of "Magnetic Marketing" System/Tool Kit sitting on my desk right in front of me...I totally agree with your initial assessment...this is STEP 2.

I've always said, look at what they do, not what they tell you do do. And you are 100% dead on accurate when you say or point out that "they" do an awful lot of (and I do mean awful) PUSHING their wares upon us, don't they?

Now then. I do think that having certain "positions" in a market gives what some might call a "magnetic" positon because if they want you have...and know about it, they have to come through your toll position.

At point, for me, from here on out, is HOW can we or CAN we, develop such a position so that the big bosomed women of the world throw themselves at us as they do to Hugh Hefner?

What MARKETING methods are there that could give any of us such a position in our given markets? Or are there?

gja