Multi-Level Marketing!

"I have an IQ in the 99th percentile ... member of Mensa ... and was a Math Major in college."

Certainly having an IQ in the Nth percentile isn't a very persuasive argument to solidifying a point you're trying to make.

Keep in mind Ray Kroc(McDonalds empire), Henry Ford (Of the Auto fame), Albert Einstien (Proven theories to numerous to mention! And was a "slow" student growing up as well!), Colonel Sanders (Success reached in his later years), were not highly educated men.

As a matter of fact, by todays standards, they were poorly educated, and could possibly be called 'non-educated' men.

I personally know of highly educated people with Phd's in Business and Marketing who have failed miserably in both business and marketing. An educational flaw or shortcoming??? No.

You are successful in your field. That's a given. But intelligence levels are not the reason for success.

An MLM being "distasteful" to you is still an opinion. Regardless of what a matrix shows. Or what IQ percentile you fall into. A computer program, a matrix, facts and figures will only produce more facts to either support or disprove a theory. It will not spit out "distasteful" or other opinions, based on human-emotions.

Opinions do not win court cases or debates. Solid arguments do. I know of highly successful people in MLM and I know of people who look down upon the Direct Mail and Infommercial types. Because of the Lapre types involved within these segments.

Still all based upon opinions and stigmas. Even though there are solid arguments to be made supporting either side!

Personally, I also find cross-posting articles distasteful as well unless information of that type is specifically requested. But I have never nuked your post, or made my opinions or commented on it until Richard opened the topic.

Even on the other boards Jim, the cross-posting of your articles, has been questioned by some of the visitors.

Certainly you do not intend to, but I found your reply to Richard somewhat defensive on your part. See??? Just another opinion. The reference you make to Mensa in no way sways my position. Now that's a fact.

I have an Uncle who went through MIT on a academic scholarship. Who worked for the government on many of the Apollo missions as well as the first Skylab linkup in space. He's certainly up there near you in IQ, I would assume.

But he never once used his IQ as a basis for one of our heated discussion on politics, religion, or even me sneaking out of the house when I spent the Summer with him and my cousins when I was 13.

It's apparent you have done the work to support your theories on the topic of MLM's. Super! But it can also be said there are many success's which could show them wrong as well. (And I am not an MLM fan!)

If you are Mensa, then you know this to be true.

Facts and logic will put any man on an equal platform with anyone else.

I dropped out of college to make a living. I've seen people come and go within my industry of Sales and Marketing and I can assure you a Diploma does not guarantee you success in the real world of dealing with people. It may get you a high techno-geek job like my Uncle has... It may even get you into certain clubs and fraternities... But by and large, the average person on the street will only be interested in what you can "do for them."

But all-in-all, you're blessed with a God given talent. And as such, it shouldn't be used as a tool to base your viewpoint from.

As Joe Friday said every weeknight on 'Dragnet', and still does on Nick at Night, "Just the facts ma'am."

~ Mike

Hi Mike,

> Certainly having an IQ
> in the Nth percentile isn't a very
> persuasive argument to solidifying a point
> you're trying to make.

I think in Jim's defence he was referring to unbelievable claims of profits which are made in *SOME* MLM promotions, and the fact that you can calculate that many of these claims can't be true.... So in this context perhaps mentioning his mathematical abilities (and the fact he was a Math major) could be relevant....

> I personally know of highly educated people
> with Phd's in Business and Marketing who
> have failed miserably in both business and
> marketing. An educational flaw or
> shortcoming??? No.

I agree, Lee Iacocca never even went to high school yet he was a great success....

However, I don't think Jim was implying that, since he was specifically referring to his calculating abilities in the context of unbelievable profit claims from *some* MLM ads.... In that context I thought they were relavant....

Cross-posted articles.... I personally have no problem with them, as long as they are offering something of value.... And Jim Straw's posts certainly do that. Some of his articles are fantastic, I personally hope that he continues to post them....

Like I've said before, it's okay to agree to disagree.... Nobody should take it personally, and it's possible that my view could be totally "wrong"....

Cheers,

Dien

Dien ~

Some of NASA's leading scientists have the ability to add, subtract, multiply and divide. And they too have been in error on many, many occasions.

The ability to "calculate" has no bearing unless you're counting cards at the gaming table. Because at this point, you are still dealing in mathematical circumstances of probability and the "odds" of certain cards coming into play. Or falling in a particular sequence.

His words were of his own choosing, "distasteful" and a few others select adjectives. All pertaining to an opinion not a factual statement. Simply put Jim has his own subjective viewpoints on MLM. Richard has his.

Too imply you have the ability to derive a sum from a few numbers, or are a member of Mensa, in no way provides a basis for a solid argument Dien.

I wasn't implying Jim couldn't add or subtract, nor his outcomes were right or wrong. I was plainly stating his reference to Academia, IQ percentiles and Mensa, were not an issue. Nor was it applicable.

On my work table there is a $1.25 LCD calculator which can outperform the majority of mensa members as far as simple mathematics are concerned.

The PC I'm currently on has software programs and the ability to blow away most high IQ individuals. So I too, have access to high-end calculations which could include Matrixes and Algorithms! But I don't toss them about to substantiate an opinion.

Within hours I could develop a Visual Basic program that would surpass an individual in the ability to run through a series of What If scenarios and spit out the proper answers. With If Then Statements and the use of Select Case.

But my views or opinions are still that... Just one person's opinion. Being able to add doesn't make my opinion stand above Richards. Or Richards above mine.

So back to the "original" hand... The abilities to "calculate", your IQ percentile, or the fact you belong to Mensa are in actuallity, a non-issue.

To bring them into play, is only to reinforce an opinion. I never stated Jims calculating abilities, or calculations, were in error.

Just because I have won many awards, trips, and bonuses within the sales profession. Or finished in the top 5 (actually 3rd) of over 250 other "sales professionals" in our region in my first year with one company. Doesn't make my opinions or viewpoints on sales any more valid then someone elses opinion.

Other than this post, in over 4 years of posting on the 'net, I've never stated the above fact. Even though I have been challenged numerous times on the techniques of Sales and Marketing.

I don't need to brag or pontificate. I don't need to write articles for the AMA Journal or trade rags to be acknowledged. I don't need to cross post articles to many Forums either.

Do I need to be able to add, subtract, sell, market or be a member of Mensa to have an opinion? No.

Do I need to state my accomplishments or achievements to have an opinion? No.

Do I need to prove myself or my opinions by doing such? No.

Can I construct a solid argument by using facts and logic to substantiate my position? Certainly I can, and do.

Just as Jim took a viewpoint, so have I. Many times my stands are not in line with the others. Which is fine.

You enjoy his cross-postings... I and others consider it Spam. Why not just mass mail it to hundreds of thousands of people who have at one time posted on a marketing board because it's "useful"? Because it would still be considered Spam.

Maybe the next level of 'netiquette' will evolve from Usolicited Commercial E-mails, to the unsolicitated posting of unasked for self-promoting articles.

Recall also Dien, at one time the "Educated" men of the world claculated that the Earth was not only flat... But the sun revolved around the Earth.

So much for using IQ as an argument.

~ Mike

I mentioned my IQ ... and Math background ... only to defray the usual voodoo mathematics used by the MLM con-men to justify their matrixes.

Most of the Mensans I know are pumping gas because ... according to them ... personnel managers won't hire them in fear of losing their own jobs to them.

As I said in my article, I did make a lot of money in MLM ... although I was never involved in getting distributors.

If a MLM company has a viable product, at a competitive price, sell it.-- Sell the product; not the opportunity. -- Your satisfied customers will become distributors on their own and really make you money. (The last time I sold a MLM product, my monthly commissions averaged $20,000.)

But, if you cannot sell the product without selling the opportunity, don't touch the opportunity with a 10-foot pole.

Jim


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