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  #1  
Old October 9, 2006, 01:28 AM
Duane Adolph
 
Posts: n/a
Default Move Over Apprentice here comes the Dragons Den

Hi Sowpubbers,

Have any of you seen the T.V show called The Dragons Den?

This show has just aired its first episode in Toronto Canada last Wednesday.

However, it appears to have aired in the U.K previously.

I have watched a couple of back episodes from the U.K on Youtube.com and this show is a must watch for Entrepreneurs. I like it much better than the Apprentice.

Basic Premise of Show:

Inventors or business owners looking for outside investment get an opportunity to make a Pitch to a group of Angel Investors (the Dragons).

There is no real winner or loser, the Dragons individually listen to the pitch and decide if they are going to invest their money into the project or not. This is done on an individual basis not as a group.

KEY POINT OF INTEREST:

- These are real people, looking for real money
- Notice the TYPES of questions that the Dragons ask
- Notice the FLAWS in the PITCH of the people asking for money

One key thing I noticed is that a lot of the pitches LACK a fundamental understanding of MARKETING. They are very PRODUCT focused and NOT Market focussed.

Examples.

I Listened to this guy try to Pitch his project for almost 10 minutes,
and I still have NO CLUE what the product is and neither do the Dragons

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gF0ihonnEQ

This is another guy that has a website http://www.storycode.com/

He was looking for funding from the investors, and they RIP him to shreds.
He argues vehemently for his project. Listen carefully to the lady Dragon and what she says to him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDczb...elated&search=

If you want to see an upcoming show checkout this site

www.insidethedragonsden.com/ it airs this Wednesday in Toronto Canada.

To view the original show from the U.K go to

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dragonsden/about.shtml ( there are a LOT OF TIPS and GREAT ADVICE HERE TO)

I think anybody that been around SOWPUB would know how to give a better pitch than these folks.

Has anybody else seen this show??

Any lessons learned?

Duane Adolph
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  #2  
Old October 9, 2006, 04:17 AM
Sandi Bowman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Move Over Apprentice here comes the Dragons Den

Great post, Duane! Very interesting.

I, too, was astonished at the lack of preparation for the nitty-gritty that was evident in the presentations.

What I found most enlightening, however, wasn't the presentations so much as it was the follow up questions and reasonings by the Dragons.

Of great value was the follow-ups on previous presentations and what happened to the people subsequently. Not always what one would expect but telling in it's own way.

One thing that struck me was the personality thing. Despite having Dragons interested and willing to invest, several people lost out because they had bad presentation skills or abrasive personalities and so on. There's all the evidence one needs to know that, more than 'working on your business idea' you need to FIRST work on yourself and develop your 'winning personality'.

Thanks for sharing, Duane. Now if I watched television....(I haven't in years) that'd be a 'don't miss' program for sure.

Sandi Bowman
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  #3  
Old October 9, 2006, 04:26 AM
MMacGillivray's Avatar
MMacGillivray MMacGillivray is offline
Eternal Optimist
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Helensburgh, Argyll
Posts: 243
Default Re: Move Over Apprentice here comes the Dragons Den

You're right about this being a "must see" - and about the apparent lack of preparation that goes in to some of the pitches. We're always fascinated about how quickly the dragons appear to make up their minds, although it's not possible to tell how much discussion has been edited out of the tv show.

It's nice to see a UK show going international

Margaret
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  #4  
Old October 9, 2006, 04:21 PM
Duane Adolph
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Move Over Apprentice here comes the Dragons Den

Hi Margaret,

Not sure how the show is edited, however all successful people seem to make decisions Quickly and make a Lot of decisions as well.

I recall one highperformance business guys motto in regard to decision making as:

"I may be wrong ...but never in doubt" about his decisions

Duane

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMacGillivray View Post
You're right about this being a "must see" - and about the apparent lack of preparation that goes in to some of the pitches. We're always fascinated about how quickly the dragons appear to make up their minds, although it's not possible to tell how much discussion has been edited out of the tv show.

It's nice to see a UK show going international

Margaret
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  #5  
Old October 9, 2006, 04:18 PM
Duane Adolph
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Move Over Apprentice here comes the Dragons Den

Hi Sandi,

Thanks for highlighting the "winning personality"/presentation skills aspect of this.

I must admit that I personally have taken these 2 factors for granted, in terms of their importance to business success.

However after reading your post AND seeing the negative results of NOT having these skills, I am dusting off an old project that I had put on the shelf.

So Thank You for highlighting this aspect.

Duane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandi Bowman View Post
Great post, Duane! Very interesting.

I, too, was astonished at the lack of preparation for the nitty-gritty that was evident in the presentations.

What I found most enlightening, however, wasn't the presentations so much as it was the follow up questions and reasonings by the Dragons.

Of great value was the follow-ups on previous presentations and what happened to the people subsequently. Not always what one would expect but telling in it's own way.

One thing that struck me was the personality thing. Despite having Dragons interested and willing to invest, several people lost out because they had bad presentation skills or abrasive personalities and so on. There's all the evidence one needs to know that, more than 'working on your business idea' you need to FIRST work on yourself and develop your 'winning personality'.

Thanks for sharing, Duane. Now if I watched television....(I haven't in years) that'd be a 'don't miss' program for sure.

Sandi Bowman
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  #6  
Old October 9, 2006, 06:04 AM
Duane Adolph
 
Posts: n/a
Default Just Saw Episode #1 of the Dragons Den at 4:00 am

Hi Again Sowpubbers,

O.K I just saw the 1st Episode for the Canadian Version. It was a repeat at 4.00am (I'm a night owl

O.K 1st you can check out what other people thought of Each of the pitches at this website.

http://www.cbc.ca/dragonsden/e01/5.html#epnav

Be sure to read the comments posted for the Lady in the grey suit her company "Cenebal Organics".

She received $200,000 with and 2 Dragon parnters the each own a 50% equity in her company.

Her Initial Objective was to generate the $200,000 with a 40% equity thus retaining control of her company.

2 of the Dragons offered her $100,000 each for 25% percent of the equity thus %50.

You could tell that at 1st she was hesitating...to MAKE THE DECISION to accept the offer.

THEN

One of the Dragons reminded her that he ALREADY HAD A DISTRIBUTION CHANNEL through which she could quickly leverage her new partners asset.

She Asked for Any remaining OPINIONS or COMMENTS from the other Dragons that had backed out and their comments were.

"You'd be INSANE to turn down this deal"
"It's TOUGH to GIVE UP CONTROL of your baby isn't it"

SHE ..."pulled the trigger" and MADE UP HER MIND.

She Accepted the offer.

She was the most Professional, Confident, Prepared presenter that I have seen.

Her Product Packaging was also superb.

She also gave a Taste Sample to one of the Dragons which helped the sale greatly.

I can tell that this is going to be a smash hit here.
I wish I had my pen and notepad ready.

Off the top of my head here are some of my Major Takeaways:

TAKEAWAYS

- The Dragons are obsessed with THE BUSINESS numbers. Know thy numbers!

- Don't Tell the Dragons that you are doing business with the GOVERNMENT.
They will RUN LIKE HECK. NO GOVERNMENT Involvement Except Taxation!
- They want to know WHEN they will see a Return on their investment (ROI).
AND what are the opportunity costs associated with the pitch.

Example:

In one of the pitches see "Green Tidal Energy" at the link above. the dragon stated..."I have $500,000 that I can invest and get a safe return of 7% per year. TELL ME

#1) HOW MUCH of A RETURN I will get on my investment with you ?

and

#2) WHEN will I get back my $500,000 back?

NICE!

- Answer me WHY should I invest my Childrens inheritance with YOU instead of the bank?

- Again Make sure you have the NUMBERS to back up ALL your claim

- They always want to know "WHAT ARE THE MARGINS?"

- They are also obsessed with the UNIQUENESS of the concept or product

ie. Why will a Coca Cola or some other industry giant Not just come in And SQUASH you like a bug (coming next episode)

- They will ONLY invest in businesses that they UNDERSTAND or that FITS
a pre-existing business that they ALREADY HAVE

(in the Successful Pitch example above, the two Dragons that made the offer were ALREADY in a similar industry health food type of business)

- They also want to know that THEY can bring VALUE OTHER THAN MONEY to the table.

(One Dragon Turned down the Organic Product Pitch because he felt he could not add value to the table even though he was furiously taking notes)

- After they have a GRASP of the PRODUCT...they GO RIGHT INTO BUSINESS mode and ask the question...

"SO WHAT IS THE BUSINESS????"
"SO WHAT IS THE BUSINESS????"
"SO WHAT IS THE BUSINESS????"

While each of the Presenters seem to be in LOVE with the PRODUCT.

KEY, KEY, KEY, difference in Values.

SO WHAT IS THE BUSINESS AND HOW ARE WE GOING TO MAKE MONEY??

My Thoughts:

- These Dragons remind my of something Jim Straw and others have said. If they had to do it over again they would NEVER Create their own product. Instead they would DO Affiliate Marketing and Sell Other PEOPLES products

- In a similar fashion these Dragons are also LOOKING for something QUICK AND EASY and PROFITABLE that they can PLUG INTO THEIR Distribution CHANNEL.

- So If YOU or I were to look for investors in our idea, the best Angel Investor to Target, would be one that ALREADY HAS an Understanding, or Distribution Channel for our product. SHOW THEM, HOW THEY CAN EASILY MAKE MONEY WITH YOUR BUSINESS.

- Using Half of the Marketing Knowledge that we've learned here on SOWPUB, and on the Internet in General. OUR PITCHES would be 1000 X's better than half of these people that are presenting.

O.K

That's enough now.

Good Night 6:00a.m

Thanks for reading

Duane "I LOVE THIS SHOW" Adolph

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duane Adolph View Post
Hi Sowpubbers,

Have any of you seen the T.V show called The Dragons Den?

This show has just aired its first episode in Toronto Canada last Wednesday.

However, it appears to have aired in the U.K previously.

I have watched a couple of back episodes from the U.K on Youtube.com and this show is a must watch for Entrepreneurs. I like it much better than the Apprentice.

Basic Premise of Show:

Inventors or business owners looking for outside investment get an opportunity to make a Pitch to a group of Angel Investors (the Dragons).

There is no real winner or loser, the Dragons individually listen to the pitch and decide if they are going to invest their money into the project or not. This is done on an individual basis not as a group.

KEY POINT OF INTEREST:

- These are real people, looking for real money
- Notice the TYPES of questions that the Dragons ask
- Notice the FLAWS in the PITCH of the people asking for money

One key thing I noticed is that a lot of the pitches LACK a fundamental understanding of MARKETING. They are very PRODUCT focused and NOT Market focussed.

Examples.

I Listened to this guy try to Pitch his project for almost 10 minutes,
and I still have NO CLUE what the product is and neither do the Dragons

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gF0ihonnEQ

This is another guy that has a website http://www.storycode.com/

He was looking for funding from the investors, and they RIP him to shreds.
He argues vehemently for his project. Listen carefully to the lady Dragon and what she says to him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDczb...elated&search=

If you want to see an upcoming show checkout this site

www.insidethedragonsden.com/ it airs this Wednesday in Toronto Canada.

To view the original show from the U.K go to

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dragonsden/about.shtml ( there are a LOT OF TIPS and GREAT ADVICE HERE TO)

I think anybody that been around SOWPUB would know how to give a better pitch than these folks.

Has anybody else seen this show??

Any lessons learned?

Duane Adolph
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  #7  
Old October 9, 2006, 12:53 PM
Sandi Bowman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Move Over Apprentice here comes the Dragons Den

Very astute observations, Duane.

I'll tend to disagree slightly with one thing you expressed, however. When I viewed the other episodes ect, I did not feel, with one exception, that the dragons were necessarily eliminating things that didn't tie in with their existing businesses. In fact, I got the opposite impression...that they were, to a certain extent, seeking to diversify.

The things they seemed very adamant about is that there'd be little interest in manufacturing hard goods for the most part and that none of the money would be allocated strictly for wages. That makes sense to me. Wages are a waterfall and, once it's unleashed, it's gone and no guarantee of a return. On the other hand, anything that builds product or value in the company stands a hope of recovery should liquidation occur.

One other point: they all seemed to be looking for a certain level of committment in the presenters...an enthusiasm that, while tempered by reality, would brook no interference in the process to get going on it. You might call it a devotion to their project and willingness to give the last ounce of energy to see it succeed. They're right again: sometimes sheer gutsy determination makes the difference between success and failure.

Very educational to watch the process and the interpersonal interactions. Wish I could see more of it.

Sandi Bowman
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  #8  
Old October 9, 2006, 04:27 PM
Duane Adolph
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Move Over Apprentice here comes the Dragons Den

Hi Sandi,

Point taken. I must admit I was focusing on only the ONE successful pitch when I made the comment.

Thanks for adding your comments and insights. (I've added these to my new Dragon Notebook :->)

Wish you could see this show...

I'm sure the YOUTUBE nation will soon have episodes posted up there.

Very educational indeed

Duane



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandi Bowman View Post
Very astute observations, Duane.

I'll tend to disagree slightly with one thing you expressed, however. When I viewed the other episodes ect, I did not feel, with one exception, that the dragons were necessarily eliminating things that didn't tie in with their existing businesses. In fact, I got the opposite impression...that they were, to a certain extent, seeking to diversify.

The things they seemed very adamant about is that there'd be little interest in manufacturing hard goods for the most part and that none of the money would be allocated strictly for wages. That makes sense to me. Wages are a waterfall and, once it's unleashed, it's gone and no guarantee of a return. On the other hand, anything that builds product or value in the company stands a hope of recovery should liquidation occur.

One other point: they all seemed to be looking for a certain level of committment in the presenters...an enthusiasm that, while tempered by reality, would brook no interference in the process to get going on it. You might call it a devotion to their project and willingness to give the last ounce of energy to see it succeed. They're right again: sometimes sheer gutsy determination makes the difference between success and failure.

Very educational to watch the process and the interpersonal interactions. Wish I could see more of it.

Sandi Bowman
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  #9  
Old October 9, 2006, 05:52 PM
Joetrevison
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Move Over Apprentice here comes the Dragons Den

I haven't seen in the u.s. and I have cable and only get what they give me. It sounds fantastic. I bet someone in the u.s is going to steal it. They did who wants to be a millionaire that sucked. This sounds great. I have clients that are inventors. One invented a paint remover for model trains. He is making a fortune on it. And hasn't filed a tax return yet.
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  #10  
Old October 9, 2006, 07:54 PM
Phil
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Move Over Apprentice here comes the Dragons Den

Duane,

Thanks for sharing...

That was too Funny... atleast some of it.

Anyone in Canada will be able to watch the series Locally and I'm sure http://www.youtube.com will continue to have the videos on the show. Quite a few more if you Search...

And my own Twisted thoughts and Quick business idea notes that I always Follow from these Kinda Shows...

As you mentioned... Inventors... are Terrible Marketers!

Many say they would NEVER Create their own product. Instead they would DO Affiliate Marketing and Sell Other PEOPLES products...

BUT many Love product development and Thankfully Create GREAT innovative products...

FIND the "Winners" that are being Terribly Marketed and/or Under-Marketed...

A "TOLL POSITION"... Marketing company that Focuses on "Smart" Terribly Marketed products!

Maybe Not a new business idea... But from Experience, Mega Money to be Made from Doing it.

And some Food for Thought on how someone can Market the Dragons Den into the US.

Just thought I'd throw that out there as it could also make for a very interesting Blog!

Even SowPubbers are enjoying it and ready for some Dragons Den products...

http://www.sowpub.com/forum/showthre...ighlight=sandi

Phil
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