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-   -   "All I got" is LOGIC -- therefore, I have nothing... (http://www.sowpub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7939)

-TW January 27, 2012 06:39 AM

"All I got" is LOGIC -- therefore, I have nothing...
 
People don't act logically (even when it's obvious that they SHOULD).

Relationships are where it's at.

Ultra logic-driven people like me, don't/can't get very far.

It doesn't matter how much of a NO-BRAINER an offer is (logically), it's not gonna sell without the *know you, trust you, like you* formula.

It's maddening cuz I keep falling back on logic to persuade. And, the evidence keeps showing that's not how it works (even though it SHOULD work like that!!). I keep not being able to learn that lesson. And (therefore) success keeps eluding me. (((sigh)))

-- TW

Bozo January 27, 2012 11:00 AM

Re: "All I got" is LOGIC -- therefore, I have nothing...
 
"People don't act logically"

True statement.

"(even when it's obvious that they SHOULD)."

It may be obvious, but it's only obvious to you, not them. One of the big secrets to persuasion is that people never believe what they're told, but if you can lead them to make a certain conclusion themselves, their belief becomes unshakable.

"Relationships are where it's at."

Most people think of relationships as having two sides, a you and a me. A sales relationship, however, must only have a you (meaning 'them'). Only by taking me and my needs out of the formula, can I lead you to make your conclusion.

"Ultra logic-driven people like me, don't/can't get very far."

True if you stick with logic as a sales technique. Logic indicates that you would make a change.

"It doesn't matter how much of a NO-BRAINER an offer is (logically), it's not gonna sell without the *know you, trust you, like you* formula."

True statement, but you may be missing the how to get there part. I, as a customer, will instantly like you when I perceive that you like me. In other words, when you have taken you out of the formula and have shined your little light on me and my world and my needs, and I perceive that you are sincere in your like for me, then I will like you and trust you and buy from you.

"I keep not being able to learn that lesson."

That statement could be reworded as 'I can't learn that lesson'.
Then it can be reworded as "I won't learn that lesson."
Which begs the question of "Why won't you learn the lesson?"

GordonJ January 27, 2012 02:28 PM

It is just my personal theory...not logical at all, but...
 
...and I wrote about this in Prospect as Product.

Most (and of course, there are many exceptions) of the logical, and skeptical people I've met, and I should say that by nature and training I bring a lot of skepticism to the table, which helps me be an excellent ANALYST for many, but not all projects...

Gary Halbert would be so proud of my Sh*t Wealsingly here...

But, most cut from the cloth of logic...can't get their EGO out of the way.

It is one thing to analyze a project, or a product and another thing to market or sell it.

When I analyzed and evaluated SGS for Ben Suarez, the SGS is a sales generation system, think product...

I literally sifted through hundreds of products and I spoke to over 50 inventors and/or creators on the phone and my first question was...who is the market, or who wants or needs this product?

The across the board answer was...EVERYONE. FAIL!!! Right from the get go.

These inventors, most were very logical in coming up with their products...were unable to accept the fact they had fallen in love with their idea...without REAL and LOGICAL information to back up their assertions.

And, I could spend a lifetime trying to pound it into someone's head...that logic is the last thing you want to appeal to (although there are those technical products etc, which logic HELPS close the sale...)

It iis all about EMOTION. And not your emotion, THEIRS.

What is the perfect product?

THEM!!!

And why don't logical people focus on the them...cause along with their big brains, their smarts, their LOGIC...comes a corresponding big ego.

Probably NOT you the readers, I'm talking about the other guy...just so you know...

I've spent 12 years just on SowPub hammering away at the EMOTIONAL aspect of selling...or marketing...

I personally, would rather work with someone of average intelligence, with many exceptions there too, than to work with a SMART person...cause they come up with all the reasons why it won't work.

I sat next to a guy at the Walsh Seminar, I call him Sorry Dave...and right after Ben Suarez stood on the stage and recruited me...Dave told me he was going through the book, (7 Steps to Freedom II) with a fine tooth comb to figure out why it wouldn't work. True story.

At the time Dave had a small printing business, and 30,000 dollars worth of printing equipment, and he couldn't bring himself to create information products because he just knew it wouldn't work.

Dave went bankrupt, had to sell his equipment...and he was one of the most LOGICAL people I've ever met.
For peoplel who continue to be frustrated...

my take is... write your promotion for the product first thing...do a test to see if anyone is interested BEFORE you create and/or acquire a product to promote....make sure there is a market with the money to buy it...
and then...

MAKE SURE YOU HAVE ALL THE EMOTIONAL TRIGGERS in your promotion, and throw in some logic too, and you'll end your frustration...and also,

get your big AZZ ego out of your own way...you ain't that important...especially to those people who would become customers...

Bozo is right about the liking and getting them to draw their own conclusions...to have a friend, be a friend is the old saw.

52 years of study and tens of thousands of dollars spent, a lifetime of learning spent on learning sales and persuasion...and I've concluded...

LOGIC is the least effective motivator there is...get rid of it as soon as you can...

Get inside THEIR heads, and see the world from their totally illogical view, which is what the SQ1 has taught for the last 12 years online.

Gordon Jay Alexander

-TW January 27, 2012 04:15 PM

Re: "All I got" is LOGIC -- therefore, I have nothing...
 
I evaluate things from this angle... "Does this make SENSE?" (is this logical?).

I see now, I should NOT do that. Problem is, that is the only tool I have in my toolbox! All I have is a hammer, so I keep looking for nails -- and there are none to find! Frustration.

I see it is *I* who needs to change.

Example off the top of my head... Many years ago, I discovered people were making MILLIONS off of selling (FRIGGIN') ***RING TONES***.

There is NO logic on earth (or any other planet) that could give ANY "priority" to buying a RING TONE. That HAS to be ***THE*** most UNNECESSARY item of all time! Yet, people were (apparently) buying them in DROVES!

My logic-addiction (+ big azzz ego) PREVENTED me from getting my share of that bonanza.

I cannot take my logic to the bank!

But I also cannot bring myself to tap into WASTE OF TIME trends + fads, either. So, bank account = zero while I'm doing "the right thing." (the logical thing(s)).

(((sigh)))

-TW January 27, 2012 04:19 PM

"That could never work -- it doesn't make 'SENSE'"
 
And yet, 9/10 times, not making "sense" is the precise reason it MIGHT work.

I just can't get my mind around that idea -- cuz the IDEA ITSELF doesn't even make "sense!!"

-- TW

Richard Dennis January 27, 2012 05:44 PM

Re: "That could never work -- it doesn't make 'SENSE'"
 
TW,

I feel your pain. I used to be exactly where you are.

Example: As I once told my wife, it was 3 or 4 years after we got married before I began to understand how to talk to a girl. (And by then, it was too late ...)

But it took decades before I got decent at talking to people in general. It only happened after I discovered what the problem was ... and what the solution was.

The Problem: there are 4 personality types. They've been written about for hundreds of years, by many authors. You can read my own evaluation of the 4 types here:

The 4 Personalities

You and I are the "green" personality, the analytical. Analyticals have many positive attributes. Unfortunately, most of us struggle our entire lives to build relationships. But there is a very, very simple solution. (I didn't say "easy" ... I said simple.)

The Solution:
Listen.

My friend Michael & I recently did a conference call on how to listen. Based on my own painful experience, I believe you will never be successful at either personal or business relationships until you really learn to listen. I recommend you listen to this 33-minute call:

How To Listen

The problem for an analytical is that we tick people off when we talk. Most people don't want to hear all the details we love. And they watch us and they know that we are absolute masters of paralysis by analysis. And most of all, they know we believe we are always right and that we never listen to them ... which is the death knell for that relationship.

So the ONLY answer for you is to shut up and practice listening. And believe me, I know it's not easy.

Richard Dennis

-TW January 27, 2012 06:09 PM

Re: "All I got" is LOGIC -- therefore, I have nothing...
 
Thanks Richard!

Yes, I see what I have been doing is to ASSUME that, when someone is shown that they SHOULD (logically) do something, they just-plain WILL do that thing. In my mind (see, there's that MIND again), that is the ONLY course of action that "makes sense."

So, in my MIND, as a salesperson, ALL I MUST DO is present the LOGIC of the situation, and the ACTION will AUTOMATICALLY take place (buying).

This (in REALITY) is not so -- which FURTHER makes "NO SENSE."

For instance, when I SEE the logical need for something, I (in correctly) figure -- AHA! That will be EASY to sell -- All I must do is present the LOGIC behind the REASONS to buy, and the sale is ipso facto GUARANTEED / EASY.

Like, DUH! OBVIOUSLY. --- Easy as pie.

Then I go out in the real world + get FRUSTRATED because the real world is NOT operating that way ---- Even though it........... "***SHOULD***"

I can't seem to get past that "SHOULD" frustration. I see that the solution is NOT logic --- but I cannot see what the solution *IS*. (instead)

So, I guess I'm half way there (at least).

I now see what the solution ISN'T -- I just cannot see what it *IS*!

-- TW

-TW January 27, 2012 06:24 PM

I've also noticed...
 
I like to (where possible) solve problems ONLY ONCE.

This is so ingrained in me, I ALMOST get frustrated when I must go food shopping -- like, "didn't I already buy food last week, I thought I SOLVED that whole buying food and EATING problem, ONCE!! -- You're saying I need to eat AGAIN?!?!"

I can't stand getting "trapped" by the same problem coming up over + over -- like being somehow "surprised" every month when a certain bill comes due.

But life (+ people) are not like that. They don't behave like robots. They make the same mistakes over and over again -- even though that makes no *** " SENSE " ***.

Things that don't make sense frustrate me! I try to hard to deal with things as they SHOULD be, not as they ARE!

And I keep thinking I SHOULD be able to solve problems ONCE, and be done with that problem FOREVER.

I wonder if any of you out there suffer from the same "syndrome."

-- TW

PS: It's like when the OJ verdict was read. Why were there two different reactions to that??? I STILL can't figure that one out! And yet -- there it was/is. An undeniable (if totally ILLOGICAL) reality.

Bozo January 27, 2012 10:14 PM

Re: "All I got" is LOGIC -- therefore, I have nothing...
 
Richard Dennis nailed in his post. Listen is the key to relationships of any kind.

I have a friend, analytic sort of guy, who was very backwards socially. He felt that nobody was interested in what he had to say...he was right about that. Anyway, he determined to become an interesting person.

He did it by reading and gathering information on everything, so he could expound at length on any subject...and he does.

Thing is, nobody is interested in what he knows and he comes off as an overbearing bore. Of course nobody, including me, will tell him that. In fact there is no way to tell him anything because he knows everything already.

He went about it all wrong. The truth is, to be the most interesting person in the room, you should never say anything beyond "Oh really, what happened then?", or "How did you feel about that?", or "How many kittens did she have?". And so forth.

When you do that, you can keep someone talking for hours. When it's over, you'll know all about them, they won't know squat about you, but...they will think you are the most fascinating conversationalist they've ever met.

Nobody cares about you. Nobody. So, when someone comes along that seems to care about you, you'll think they're the most wonderful person alive. Simple stuff. Defies logic.

May be total BS. :p

GordonJ January 27, 2012 10:32 PM

to translate this to a promotion, or sales pitch...
 
Mr. Ms. Mrs. Hey YOU, target.

Here is where you are now. BAD PLACE TO BE.

Buy this and you will be HERE (a better place).

I used to be the most logical person in the world, but now, after taking Gordon's Mega SuperDuper Don't Think, īt's all about them course...

I don't think at all.

But, my bank account is full and I have a bevy of beautiful gilrs at my beck and call...all because, I quit being logical...and started being stupid...

As Gordon taught me...God loves Toopid people, cause he made so many of them (us?)...

Yea, I gave up logic and deep thought, and you can too. But don't think about it, just order Gor'don's course today. Right now. Cause

like ol gordy sez...

Ignorance is bliss. So bliss out now.

Don't worry be happy.

A user.

PS. ORDER now and get Gordon's free bonus, how to pick up airheads without saying a word...(just flash your stash).
******
Yea, I, too sometimes hate toopid people...but, I do like to eat. As the saying goes, no one ever went broke underestimating the American consumer of ___________ whatever.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Bozo (Post 29946)
Richard Dennis nailed in his post. Listen is the key to relationships of any kind.

I have a friend, analytic sort of guy, who was very backwards socially. He felt that nobody was interested in what he had to say...he was right about that. Anyway, he determined to become an interesting person.

He did it by reading and gathering information on everything, so he could expound at length on any subject...and he does.

Thing is, nobody is interested in what he knows and he comes off as an overbearing bore. Of course nobody, including me, will tell him that. In fact there is no way to tell him anything because he knows everything already.

He went about it all wrong. The truth is, to be the most interesting person in the room, you should never say anything beyond "Oh really, what happened then?", or "How did you feel about that?", or "How many kittens did she have?". And so forth.

When you do that, you can keep someone talking for hours. When it's over, you'll know all about them, they won't know squat about you, but...they will think you are the most fascinating conversationalist they've ever met.

Nobody cares about you. Nobody. So, when someone comes along that seems to care about you, you'll think they're the most wonderful person alive. Simple stuff. Defies logic.

May be total BS. :p

;


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