Soapbox or Marketing?

Is this still a marketing forum, or has it changed to a SOAPBOX?????????
I think the place to take some of these posting is; http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=latest_threads


http://www.internet-marketing4u.com

> Is this still a marketing forum, or has it
> changed to a SOAPBOX?????????
> I think the place to take some of these
> posting is;
> http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=latest_threads

Hi Bill,

Funny you should say that. I once had a very small online newsletter I called "Erik's Marketing Soapbox." So I can't say I don't scramble up on the box occasionally.

I do understand what you are saying, Bill.

I guess it's up to all of us to decide what we'll discuss, share, and talk about when we meet here.

I don't mind a bit of soapboxing because it helps me get to know other people a little better. (And that's even when I don't agree with a good portion of it)

I've personally always thought of this cozy little place as an entrepreneurial gathering. Kind of a mastermind group of entrepreneurs. Opinions on non-marketing stuff just tend to surface in any group I guess :)

Success,

Erik Lukas

Hi,

Michael's message could attract a flurry of hard-to-answer questions (I've got about six, myself) and spark passionate debate, thereby fracturing the forum.

Just my opinion,

- Boyd

> Michael's message could attract a flurry of
> hard-to-answer questions (I've got about
> six, myself) and spark passionate debate,
> thereby fracturing the forum.

I understand, Boyd. Very good point.

While I am for passionate debate and a little soapboxing, I do know that doesn't work for some people.

They get too involved (I certainly do at times). Emotions and strong core values are at stake and it quickly get ugly (if mudslinging Erik is part of it).

Hopefully the focus of helping each other succeed here will never get sidetracked by anything like that.

BTW, glad to hear what you think, Boyd.

-Erik

P.S. And to say I don't have questions would be untrue. I just don't always have time for long drawn out debates.

Hi Erik and Boyd,

I tend to agree with you, I think, that people can get very "passionate" and worked up about these issues, which detracts from discussion about business and marketing....

I'm personally in favor of keeping the politics toned down.... Though when I do so, sometimes I'm accused of "censorship". So I gotta walk a fine line...!

- Dien Rice

IMHO it is self-defeating as a marketer to distract the focus with talks of war. Frankly, if it's going to be a topic on this board, I'll go elsewhere because I get to thinking about stuff like that and then can't concentrate on my job at hand. When I'm working is not the time or place for that sort of thing unless it's the focus of my work...and it isn't.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Sandi

> Is this still a marketing forum, or has it
> changed to a SOAPBOX?????????
> I think the place to take some of these
> posting is;
> http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=latest_threads

I tend to agree with Sandi about it being distracting.
I would prefer this board remain focussed on marketing
and business issues. Of course, discussing the effects
of war (and almost war) on business and our respective
countries' economies is certainly a legitimate topic,
which I think we've touched on before.

It could be argued that no one is forcing us to read
every post. However, when such posts go up, I think
it steals time & effort that could be spent on more
entrepreneurial matters.

Perhaps a modification to Michael's post would have
been better -- less text (an attention-getting headline
would be sufficient), with the link to the article "for
those who are interested", followed by a link to
another forum that is more appropriate for follow-up
discussion.

Chris

> IMHO it is self-defeating as a marketer to
> distract the focus with talks of war.
> Frankly, if it's going to be a topic on this
> board, I'll go elsewhere because I get to
> thinking about stuff like that and then
> can't concentrate on my job at hand. When
> I'm working is not the time or place for
> that sort of thing unless it's the focus of
> my work...and it isn't.

> Just my 2 cents worth.

> Sandi

Chris:

I placed a paragraph of text there to let readers know what was at the end of the link. They could then choose to follow the link and read the rest or to click away.

I figure no-one would be upset about being tricked into loading up an article which they did not want to read, if they knew in advance what the article was about.

I did what I suggested to Boyd after he asked about his article links - an introductory paragraph so I would know what I was clicking through to.

Michael Ross

> Is this still a marketing forum, or has it
> changed to a SOAPBOX?????????

Bill:

What makes this forum interesting is the wide array of subjects discussed...

From software help to marketing. From the problems of one particular country to the stockmarket. From the political left to the policical right. From domestic issues to international issues.

People can allow themselves to jump to the left or right (or "take sides") on any and all subjects. People can discuss them rationally or let their hearts do the speaking. And here at sowpub, rational discussion seems to be the order of the day. There is very little "name calling" or personal attacks because it is not allowed/tolerated.

The thing about the Iraq crisis and protests and patriotic songs is they are all about marketing...

Marketing to convince the public going into Iraq is necessary.

Marketing to convince the protestors to give up time (to protest) and money (to buy and paint signs and transport themselves to the protest gathering point). And for them to believe going into Iraq is not the thing to do.

Marketing to get a song launched and played on the radio.

And those doing this marketing are masters of it. The spin doctors - policial left and right - are brilliant at it. We can all learn from watching them in action - whether we agree or disagree with them.

The thing with the song is, it plays to a couple of elements...

Patriotic. Those who are very patriotic will buy it - specially if they are somewhat hawkish, though that is not necesary as the song NEVER mentions Saddam Hussein.

Controvery. People buy controversial things (songs) because it somehow allows them to be a part of the controvery. (Eminem is GOOD at this. Same with The Sex Pistols.)

Rememberance. People who choose to be reminded of 9/11 and all it entails. Down in Australia a song which went flying up the charts was called "I was only 19" and was about the Vietnamn War. Old soldiers bought it up, even though it brought back memories and was detailed in its tragic verse.

If certain radio stations has not banned the song, the media might not have even bothered writing about it.

If it had been released last year February (just for example) then it might not have been noticed and simply faded away.

Its release shows very well the marketing elements of Right Time and Right Product. Lessons for all students of marketing.

Also, these particular subjects are what is on the minds of the public. And the public is made up of your customers. It's a smart thing to know what your customers are reading, watching, hearing out of the mass media.

For example... trying to market to anyone while rhetoric flies left and right and protests are the norm of the day, could be a big waste of money unless you have something to BURST through their bubble of pre-occupation. The song does that. The "Open Letter To..." does that - burst into your bubble of pre-occupation. At a time where "Eat At Joes" does not.

Years ago the French Govt blew up a whole bunch of nuclear weapons in the Pacific. There was such an outcry - directly at the French and French products - that our local French restaurant put up a BIG Banner that said they opposed the French Nuclear testing and so on. While the media talked up how bad the French were by blowing up nuclear weapons on little islands in the Pacific Ocean, the French Restaurant hung its sign. It new, it needed to resonate with what people were "thinking" due to the media. While this all went on, that restaurant was the busiest I had ever seen it. And it has not been as busy since.

So this is all about markketing, as I see it.

Michael Ross

Very interesting perspective & food for thought.
Thanks, Michael.

Chris

> Bill:

> What makes this forum interesting is the
> wide array of subjects discussed...

> From software help to marketing. From the
> problems of one particular country to the
> stockmarket. From the political left to the
> policical right. From domestic issues to
> international issues.

> People can allow themselves to jump to the
> left or right (or "take sides") on
> any and all subjects. People can discuss
> them rationally or let their hearts do the
> speaking. And here at sowpub, rational
> discussion seems to be the order of the day.
> There is very little "name
> calling" or personal attacks because it
> is not allowed/tolerated.

> The thing about the Iraq crisis and protests
> and patriotic songs is they are all about
> marketing...

> Marketing to convince the public going into
> Iraq is necessary.

> Marketing to convince the protestors to give
> up time (to protest) and money (to buy and
> paint signs and transport themselves to the
> protest gathering point). And for them to
> believe going into Iraq is not the thing to
> do.

> Marketing to get a song launched and played
> on the radio.

> And those doing this marketing are masters
> of it. The spin doctors - policial left and
> right - are brilliant at it. We can all
> learn from watching them in action - whether
> we agree or disagree with them.

> The thing with the song is, it plays to a
> couple of elements...

> Patriotic. Those who are very patriotic will
> buy it - specially if they are somewhat
> hawkish, though that is not necesary as the
> song NEVER mentions Saddam Hussein.

> Controvery. People buy controversial things
> (songs) because it somehow allows them to be
> a part of the controvery. (Eminem is GOOD at
> this. Same with The Sex Pistols.)

> Rememberance. People who choose to be
> reminded of 9/11 and all it entails. Down in
> Australia a song which went flying up the
> charts was called "I was only 19"
> and was about the Vietnamn War. Old soldiers
> bought it up, even though it brought back
> memories and was detailed in its tragic
> verse.

> If certain radio stations has not banned the
> song, the media might not have even bothered
> writing about it.

> If it had been released last year February
> (just for example) then it might not have
> been noticed and simply faded away.

> Its release shows very well the marketing
> elements of Right Time and Right Product.
> Lessons for all students of marketing.

> Also, these particular subjects are what is
> on the minds of the public. And the public
> is made up of your customers. It's a smart
> thing to know what your customers are
> reading, watching, hearing out of the mass
> media.

> For example... trying to market to anyone
> while rhetoric flies left and right and
> protests are the norm of the day, could be a
> big waste of money unless you have something
> to BURST through their bubble of
> pre-occupation. The song does that. The
> "Open Letter To..." does that -
> burst into your bubble of pre-occupation. At
> a time where "Eat At Joes" does
> not.

> Years ago the French Govt blew up a whole
> bunch of nuclear weapons in the Pacific.
> There was such an outcry - directly at the
> French and French products - that our local
> French restaurant put up a BIG Banner that
> said they opposed the French Nuclear testing
> and so on. While the media talked up how bad
> the French were by blowing up nuclear
> weapons on little islands in the Pacific
> Ocean, the French Restaurant hung its sign.
> It new, it needed to resonate with what
> people were "thinking" due to the
> media. While this all went on, that
> restaurant was the busiest I had ever seen
> it. And it has not been as busy since.

> So this is all about markketing, as I see
> it.

> Michael Ross