inundated with real estate courses

I have been away from the board getting my real estate investing in full swing and just had to vent a little. It amazes me the ton of crap that is coming on the internet from people who don't know anything about real estate.

Everybody trying to sell courses on how to make it big. I'll pick one topic. Short sales. That is getting the bank to accept less than the mortgage amount for full satisfaction of the loan. I see all kinds of people selling how easy it is to do short sales. To the contrary it takes a lot of effort to get one of these things done. Especially talking to the right people.

The point is if you really want to learn about making money in real estate be careful. There are no shortcuts. You've got to do your homework. In today's market you must know value.

Instead of spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on questionable courses go to the library or bookstore. And get out in the field and mix it up. Look at property -talk to people. Spend time. And don't expect to spend 3-5 hours per week as some of the gurus suggest and become a millionaire.

I'm with you an that one.

Personally I like the idea of "Toll Booth" real estate.

Like Apartments.

They were ment from the get-go to be a "cash flow" business.

I managed a 120 unit complex for 3 years. Trust me, LOTS OF CASH FLOW.

Also, less competion. A lot less. Look around, every GURU is selling something about how to buy, control or whatever HOUSES. That's ok. You can still go that route. But you have to weed through the BS of courses until you find the ones telling the truth and the "details".

But look at the "Apartment Gurus". A lot less of them. But I believe there are more legitimate teachers of apartment courses. They're expensive.

But, what's expensive?

Lack of understanding?

or...

A little cash outlay for good "education" that could set you free.

That's my take.

Fishman

I've already started doing research -- getting names + addresses of people who did owner financing maybe 1+ years ago. The idea is to offer them a cash-out deal, then sell that deal for somewhat more than I got it for -- and I end up with the difference. An arbitrage finder's fee, kinda.. The so-called 'cash flow' biz. Any experience with that?

Thanks.

-- TW

TW,

You may know this site already....

http://www.papersourceonline.com/

EVERYTHING you could ever want to know about discounted "cashflows" can
be found there.

Here is my limited experience with discounted cashflows/notes.
When I brokered loans in the mid '90's, the nature of that biz put me in contact with many different types of investors.

One in paticular was an older gentleman who had been buying/investing in discounted notes. He knew how to buy them and "broker" them as well.

It was how he had paid the bills for YEARS and it was also his "retirement" income. As odd as this may sound to some, sometimes for tax purposes he would borrow money through mortgage brokers like me at a reasonable interest rate using some of his discount notes as collateral.

Then buy MORE notes at a discount to add to his portfolio.(the interest he paid was insignificant compared to the "tax break" and his yield he made)

You could tell he was a "fly low and collect the dough" kind of investor.

He wasn't all about "stuff", he was all about "time freedom" and experiences.

Although he did have a nice NEW RV in the drive way that was paid for, and probably worth more than his modest house.

One of the most "relaxed" people I ever met.

Hope the website helps. Let me know if you have any other questions and if I can I will answer to my best ability.

Fishman

vbnxbcnxc

1) Go to county offices + get (research) 100+ seller carry back notes (info). I did a test of this, just to see HOW to do it -- clerk told me a) seller carry backs are very rare (1 in 700, maybe), and it would take hours to come up with even one, and b) that others had come in to do the same thing, and they never come back because the research is so boring + disheartening. What *I* discovered is, yes -- it's boring, but I came up with about 15-20 per hour. So, getting 100 won't take THAT long after all.

2) Send a letter to the sellers who did the carry back at least one year ago.

3) Hope for some replies.

4) sell the discounted notes of the people who want to cash out + get my finder's fee (arbitrage).

Any idea how many letters I'll have to send to get ONE nibble?

Of course the overall goal is to come up with a repeatable system ("machine") that predictably generates results based on research, sending, and response percentages/ratios.

Any advice/input on this 'plan?'

Thanks!

-- TW

PS: Time frame is to keep tweaking the "machine" so that I get SOME result(s) ($$$) by mid-August or sooooner!

[GordonJ]

Originally Posted by Fishman

I'm with you an that one.

Personally I like the idea of "Toll Booth" real estate.

Like Apartments.

They were ment from the get-go to be a "cash flow" business.

I managed a 120 unit complex for 3 years. Trust me, LOTS OF CASH FLOW.

Fishman

Imagine having over 2200 units paying top dollar every month...wouldn't that be sweet? That would be sweet, eh? So HOW?

The RE Partnership. I've written about it before, somewhere in the archives...but I'll give the quick version.

Two of my golf students were members of a RE Partnership, I believe they had 10 people. ONE of these guys is a well known realtor in our area and he was the Managing Partner.

The "silent partners" just put their cash into it, and the RE guy kept adding assets. Now they may have a lot more than the 2200 units, it could be as many as 5,000 by now. They specialize in the "nice neighborhood" units with 35-75 units each. Small, but very manageable. They replace appliances often, they keep the apt complex LOOKING good, they charge on the high side of the market...and they screen like the devil. Good neighbors (tenants) are the best "amenity" people look for.

This group changes every so often when one of the members sells his share, and the cash out is significant, but the CASH FLOW is very nice too. Some of these guys have been collecting passive income for over 25 years, and there are tax advanages if set up properly.

It is a viable idea today...and some of YOU, with real estate expertise, could probably manage the group.

Here's a quick read about partnerships:
http://reiclub.com/articles/partners...tate-investing

http://realtytimes.com/rtpages/20040726_partnership.htm

http://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsb...hip-questions/

Consider spreading the risk and the reward and growing a CASH FLOW business that will pay you for decades.

Gordon Alexander

Gordon,

Thanks for that bit of info.

Those guys were on top of it. Perfect size multifamily units for sure.
Like you said easy to manage and from what I know, that "level" of property
would put you in a "money range" to find inevestors with CASH (not borrowed money) setting in an IRA acount somewhere getting paltry returns. or...

In a 401k that's not doing so hot either.

I've been searching for a "simple" (well as simple as possible) info product on syndication. Something non-complicated with out all the legalease, yet with all the right wording to protect all interests.

Know of any such product?

Can't say it enough Gordon, thanks for the input.

Fishman

[GordonJ]

Originally Posted by Fishman

Gordon,



I've been searching for a "simple" (well as simple as possible) info product on syndication. Something non-complicated with out all the legalease, yet with all the right wording to protect all interests.

Know of any such product?

Can't say it enough Gordon, thanks for the input.

Fishman

If there aren't any "simple" products available, perhaps you can create it. As for legalese and real estate...it is a necessary part of putting any deal together.

Google for "real estate sydicates", "real estate partnerships" "real estate investor groups" plus "legal documents"... there have been many books written on the subject...it isn't THAT hard to find.

The ideal syndicate has a KNOWLEDGABLE Managing Partner...the money guys aren't too difficult to locate either, especially in today's market.

IF you really can't locate anything...then consider what information you would want in it...write out the 50 questions you'd need answered...and we can help you create this thing. There are RE investors who visit the forum.

Gordon

PS. This looks like a good starter book that is reasonably priced:
http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Est...ref=pd_sim_b_1#

I don't have it, but the table of contents shows it answers a lot of questions about doing this.

Another Great resource that Many oldtimers use to Chat about in the Good ol' SowPub archives...

LOTSA GOLD IN THEM THERE HILLS...

A little relaxation and dreaming first...

Ron Sexsmith - Gold In Them Hills
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DncGOPzkAns

Start Digging deep inside...
http://www.creonline.com/index.html
http://www.creonline.com/site-map.html
http://www.sowpub.com/forum/archive/index.php?f-3.html

Phil