Help me find: advice to "work in sales" & sales tips book, advice please

Greetings all,

I recently read a post that advised everyone to get some experiance working in sales, that it would always help in business & life. I think it may have been posted by Michael, Gorden, or one of the "regulars" here. Maybe someone can confirm how good or bad my memory is? LOL

I have a friend with over 20 yrs in successful sales jobs and we are considering a JV on an ebook of sales tips & experiances.

I would like to contact whoever made the post advising sales work as an educational tool.

Does anyone else have any advice for this JV/book?

Thanks, Dave Horn

PS: Yes Michael, I tried the search first. :-)

Dave:

Guess what I found using the search feature of this board? hehehe... Of course, I knew what to search for because I remembered who wrote it.

Anyway. Follow the link below to discover The ONE day sales course...


The ONE day sales course

Just kidding :-) Michael, somehow I knew it would be you that answered.

Thanks for the great thread. It is no doubt better than the one I was thinking of from the last 2 or 3 weeks.

Do you think with all the truly great classic books on sales out there, that there is any hope for a new one with a good salesman's experiances & tips?
Just a simple, little ebook of his successes, failures, and experiances with fellow sales people (some good, & some amazing backstabbers).
I figured that it would have to be real affordable, being the first attempt from an unknown, but it would have some great, valuable, real life info.
Any suggestions?

Thanks again, Dave

> Greetings all,

> I recently read a post that advised everyone
> to get some experiance working in sales,
> that it would always help in business &
> life. I think it may have been posted by
> Michael, Gorden, or one of the
> "regulars" here. Maybe someone can
> confirm how good or bad my memory is? LOL

> I have a friend with over 20 yrs in
> successful sales jobs and we are considering
> a JV on an ebook of sales tips &
> experiances.

> I would like to contact whoever made the
> post advising sales work as an educational
> tool.

> Does anyone else have any advice for this
> JV/book?

> Thanks, Dave Horn

> PS: Yes Michael, I tried the search first.
> :-)

Hello, Dave,

I'd like to suggest a slightly different idea for you as far as getting the scoop on salesmanship. Try to get informal 'interviews' with some sales managers in various fields.

Try to interview people in the type of sales your JV partner has: b2b or retail, for example. You will get an entirely different perspective on sales if you approach the subject properly.

Things you might discuss with them:

What's the one thing you look for in a prospective salesperson?

What will automatically disqualify a sales applicant?

What is the biggest problem you've encountered in managing salespeople?

Any motivational tricks that really work for the majority of your sales force?

You get the idea. The purpose, of course, is to pick up some examples, quotations, and springboard ideas to help flesh out your book.

I don't know your JV partner's background but, unless he/she has some experience in sales management, your book will be too one-sided to be really useful without other input. Unless they've been in a variety of sales situations and been trained by different methods in them, you have a lot of research to do to come up with something that isn't a re-hash of what everyone else has done.

One bit of advice: don't assume that what holds true for one type of sales is equally true for another type...nothing could be further from the truth. Approaches are different, techniques are not universally interchangeable, and closing shouldn't even be discussed.

If you've made the approach and presentation correctly, the closing doesn't even exist as a separate entity...it's a natural extension of the process. If you think 'closing' you're not listening and really communicating with your prospect.

Good luck with your project.

Sandi

Dave -

I think the post that was referenced about selling door-to-door is probably your best bet (the link to Gordon's post from a while back I mean) ...but in lieu of that here's another option you may want to try:

Health Club Sales.

This will not give you as well rounded an education as the aforementioned, but it still is a great place to learn some good, face-to-face salemanship skills. (I've been doing it for a short while now and even if you're terrible starting out, you'll become good simply through osmosis)... It would seem most of the health clubs around the U.S. (perhaps the world - not sure) have the same type of system in place: person (lead) comes to the club (via direct mail, yellow pages, fliers etc. - the normal marketing tactics - insert any guerilla stuff you'd like to try here) ... you meet/greet them and give them a tour - you first pre-qualify them via a needs analysis (this will pare down potential objections, and will further allow you to target their specific wants) ... then you tour the club utilizing your gathered information - showing them the benefits of how the club will help them ("the cardio equipment can help you relieve a great deal of the stress you mentioned").

Granted, this is not the ultimate in sales jobs - and really doesn't pay all that much ...but you'll be honing your face-to-face skills and be constantly faced with objections that you'll need to overcome (otherwise your sales manager isn't going to like you very much - nor is your paycheck)...

This isn't for everyone ... general you'll need to figure out what the demographic of a particular club will be and how you'll fit that image. In other words - if the club caters to 20-something "muscle-heads" and you're a 40-something flabenoid ... find a different club that has mostly people in a bit worse shape than you're in... don't worry, you don't need to be in perfect shape to sell this ... just so long as you're just a bit better than the type of clientele that particular gym attracts (and some might argue even that doesn't matter)

Try it - at the very least you'll get a free health club membership outta' the gig.

Anon.

Hi Dave,

I think there are two things to think about here....

Of course, one thing is - will you make sales of your ebook? Will it make you fabulously wealthy, so you can afford to buy a big boat to cruise the Caribbean?

Of course, if it let's you do that, it's a good thing. :)

The other question is - what will I gain from it in other ways? Will I gain valuable experience or knowledge?

You say your friend who you are planning to JV with has 20 years of sales experience, and you are lacking in sales experience. Obviously, from working on a book like this with him you will gain some valuable knowledge. And by selling it with him you will also gain some valuable selling experience yourself. In this sense, you can't lose - you will gain valuable knowledge and experience, whether the book sells well or doesn't.

So the way I look at it, you can't lose, at least not when you look at the "big picture".

How you divide up the work will be between you and your friend, but certainly from your perspective, if it's a choice of doing this or doing nothing, then I say, go for it. Because you can't lose.

Now, having said that, the market for sales and marketing related stuff is very tough. It's a very competitive area. Why is that? Because the people selling this stuff know how to sell! So you are up against the "pros" as your competition. I think it's usually easier to succeed in a different area - one where your competition are not so skilfull at selling. (I've talked with other marketers who agree me here too.) Or find a specialized niche.

So, keep that in mind. However, if you can do it, it will definitely be valuable experience, and you will learn a lot.

And finally, I would consider the "positioning" of your sales ebook. It will probably have a better chance of success if it is targeting a unique niche in the market.

For example, take Yanik Silver, who is quite successful online. Here's a business of his which you may not know about....

http://www.morepatients.com/

Here, Yanik is selling sales knowledge - but he's targeting a niche. He's targeting doctors. That way, he has less competition, because few others are trying to sell sales knowledge to this niche.

If you can choose a niche like this - one where there is little competition - you could do well. If you're just selling very "general" sales knowledge, you are competiting against thousands of other books.

Hope that helps, Dave!

Dien Rice


Why not check out The Great Ideas Letter? (click here)

> Do you think with all the truly great
> classic books on sales out there, that there
> is any hope for a new one with a good
> salesman's experiances & tips?
> Just a simple, little ebook of his
> successes, failures, and experiances with
> fellow sales people (some good, & some
> amazing backstabbers).

Dave:

Concentrate on WHAT those sales experiences and tip relate to.

If your friend has discovered a way to sell cheese graters door to door, in such a way they sell gangbusters, then THAT is what *I* would pay for.

That is... specific information on how to sell specific products/services. And even more so if the product/service is readily obtainable. And in that regard, the book would also need to have sources.

So instead of a book with general tips, it would be a specific book.

The market would be people who already sell that product/service and/or those wishing to sell that product/service. You may even be able to ask more for the book by turning it into a kit - book, sales scripts, sources, and product which can be sold.

What field(s) does your friend have experience in?

Michael Ross


Discover The Great Ideas Letter

> closing shouldn't even
> be discussed.

> If you've made the approach and presentation
> correctly, the closing doesn't even exist as
> a separate entity...it's a natural extension
> of the process. If you think 'closing'
> you're not listening and really
> communicating with your prospect.

Well said!

The trouble with closing is something that's puzzled me. Not that I have trouble with it... but puzzled that anyone does.

I mean... what is so hard after spending time with the person, to simply ask them "Do you want me to book you in?" "Do you want to go ahead with it?" Do you want..."

To me, as you said, it is a natural extension. A part of the conversation which is flown into.

Of course, I also assume that someone who asks about something does so because they want to buy it.

If someone is not interested in what you're offering, they'll tell you pretty quick. Of course, this assumes you actually offer them something and not be manipulative in your sales spiel.

How do you tell if someone is trying to manipulate you?

They ask rhetorical questions which you would look like an idiot to say No to... such as... would you like to save 20% on your phone bills?

Good thread.

Michael Ross


The Great Ideas Letter - get it

> Well said!

> The trouble with closing is something that's
> puzzled me. Not that I have trouble with
> it... but puzzled that anyone does.

> I mean... what is so hard after spending
> time with the person, to simply ask them
> "Do you want me to book you in?"
> "Do you want to go ahead with it?"
> Do you want..."

> To me, as you said, it is a natural
> extension. A part of the conversation which
> is flown into.

> Of course, I also assume that someone who
> asks about something does so because they
> want to buy it.

> If someone is not interested in what you're
> offering, they'll tell you pretty quick. Of
> course, this assumes you actually offer them
> something and not be manipulative in your
> sales spiel.

> How do you tell if someone is trying to
> manipulate you?

> They ask rhetorical questions which you
> would look like an idiot to say No to...
> such as... would you like to save 20% on
> your phone bills?

> Good thread.

> Michael Ross

Glad you agree, Michael.

You asked why so many people have trouble with closing. Here's my answer: because they've been taught that selling is one step after another leading to the 'last' step, the closing.

That step idea is old hat and very wrong. Selling, as you probably know, is a PROCESS...and no two sales are ever exactly the same unless you're selling to robots.

People who have been taught how to sell correctly NEVER think close. They also seldom ever have to ask 'closing type' questions either (this may vary with the product being sold, however). If everyone has been on the same wavelength all the way through the actual sale is just assumed by all. If they're not ready for the sale, they'll let you know, then you probe to find out the objections, overcome them, and make the sale.

Sometimes reducing something to its component parts can be self-defeating and sales is one case where this is true.

Incidentally, if making the sale is the last step, the salesperson has missed a lot of referrals and good PR opportunities.

Sandi