Migrant Success - HERE is the answer

For the last few days I've led you on a merry chase. Trying to get you to THINK - use your noggin - about why a migrant has a tendency to succeed more oft than a native born citizen.

I could've just come out and said it. You would have nodded your head and gone on your way. Far better if you discover it for yourself. Because then you own it... it becomes an epiphany. The kind that Archimedes had when he sat in his bath and it overflowed.

Let me thank all of you who took part in that thread... and the many who read along without posting. Some of you "got it" right away. Some of you skirted around the edge. And some decided it would be better to hit me with a sock full of pennies.

Before telling you what it is (oh my, I sound like Morpheus talking to Neo in The Matrix... would you like to know what... it... is?), let me relate a story which has the necessary ingredients - though hidden as usual...

Joe - not his real name - arrived in the US with some clothes and a few spare bucks. He could not speak English.

He got himself a minimum wage job - the kind people who cannot speak English get because they don't really have any other choice - and a place to stay.

He worked during the day and took English lessons at night. Once he had learned English he saved up enough money to buy a welder and some metal (he loved welding). He then set about welding security bars for windows and selling them to the people who lived around him.

He now has a very large business selling security devices for windows, hires only migrants who cannot speak much English and pays for their English lessons himself. He also donates $250,000 per year to "bodies" that teach English to newcomers who cannot speak English.

His story is typical of migrants.

Now let me quote some of the posts that "got it right". (All bold added by me.)

First there is Tam's post... the first person to get it...
Having nothing (especially debt) can be very liberating. Think about it, many imigrants come from extremely poor countries looking for a better life and don't take for granted all that we do. Instead of spending their earnings to pay debt (for items that could be considered luxeries) or keep up with the Joneses, they invest in themselves and the basics. There are so many things people think they need simply because the have always had it or becuase someone else has it.

Here's an example of the difference. A kid moves out of his parents home to live on his own. He gets cable, an entertainment center, new car, eats out, etc. and goes into debt - why? Because that is what his parents did but what he doesn't consider that either they are carrying a lot of debt (and that money could be spent elsewhere) or that they slowly worked up to the point where they were able to afford the extras. Then he sees other people have things and he thinks he needs them to.

An imigrant comes to this country with nothing (and usually not having had all these extras) and worries about the basics. He then invests in himself.

Next to get it was Chris H
> WHY are they able to survive on the minimum
> wage job?

> "They are able to survive on a minimum
> wage job because they... (insert thing
> here)"

... have no debt and stay out of debt.

When they enter their new home, they (presumably) have no debts...

Steve Rollison also got it (pretty well) in a round about way...

Immigrants--most of them, anyway--arrive without any "stuff" (as the great philosopher and observer-of-life, George Carlin, puts it). Consequently, they don't have to divert any of their meager incomes to "maintaining and upgrading" their stuff.

Example: If I drove a beat-up wreck of a car, I'd "have to" spend money on repairs to keep it running... or buy a newer car (probably on credit).

Without having to spend money on maintaining any "stuff," (going into debt - MR) immigrants are able to invest their meager incomes in themselves (e.g. education) and in their dreams (e.g. entrepreneurial undertakings or savings/investment accounts).

Such investment becomes habit... which leads to long term financial success.

In a similar vein, many "native" citizens come to the conclusion late in life that they need to invest in themselves--instead of buying more stuff--if they are going to be able to enjoy comfortable retirements.

Unfortunately, most of them reach this conclusion with too few years left to be able to turn their "spend, spend, spend" lives around.

Steve, like Tam, expanded on the reasoning. Showing how it matched the criteria I hinted at.

They arrive in the country debt free! They are adults with all the usual adult knowledge but without debt. With no credit history or the other items Simon mentioned in his post, they can't even get into debt if they wanted to. They are forced to live within their means. As their means are very little, a minimum wage job does see them get by. The excess (savings) is spent in self-investment or business pursuits. By the time they "qualify" for the opportunity to get into debt, they have the habit of living without debt.

People spend their whole lives trying to get out of debt. They want instant riches - to pay off their debt. Bankruptcy is viewed as debt relief. Look at all the "debt relief" ads in your local newspapers. They start their adult life in debt - from university fees, etc. Then immediately get into more debt right away - car loan, home loan (got to have the American, UK, Australian, whatever country you live in, dream), hire-purchase, rent-to-own, lease to own, pre-approved credit cards, and so on. As long as they can make the payments they think they are fine.

Reality check. Sell off all your do-dads to pay off your debt. Are you debt free? The answer is probably NO! So, you have a negative net worth. (Scarey thought.)

The migrant with just $1 in their pocket and no debt has a positive net worth. They start out infront of where most people are today.

Sure they have less "stuff". They have NO DEBT though. So they aren't going to spend the next 25 years paying for something that has long outlived its usefulness, and may even be thrown out with the trash.

Amber also...

...save part of their earnings... and can then, much easier, take advantage of an opportunity than if they are encumbered with debt...

And Alexander too...

Immigrants have cultivated a THINKING PROCESS/HABIT of living on essentials with the money they have back in their country. When they arrive in the 'better' new country, not only they have no debt, they CAN live on 'minimum wages' (minimum wages IN THE NEW COUNTRY - could be MAXIMUM back in their country) because that's what they have been doing.

To expand... and not just from a poor-to-rich country example, but from a western country to another western country example...

It costs money to go live in another country. Airfare. How much? At least $1,000 one way, per person, from Australia.

But that other country won't just let you in with a passport. They want to see: proof you can support yourself, proof of job offer, proof of the half a million to one million dollars you are bringing with you. (Depending on which type of Visa you want to enter on.)

To do this... have enough money to live on and enough money to get over there in the first place... usually means you have to save it up. Very hard to save when you are in mountains of debt.

Also, the moment you leave you will most likely have sold off everything else you own. Clearing your debt in one hit.

You arrive as a debt free adult with a life's worth of knowledge - and hopefully - wisdom.

Most people in the country you move to will be in debt. They will only get out of debt when they retire and their "payout" pays off their debt. But at 65+ years, this is too late for most people to increase their wealth. And besides, they still do not have the "no debt" habit.

But you, with no "history" in that country, are forced to live a debt free life. Without debt tremendous amounts of money can be saved and then invested - which will make more money.

The Richest Man in Babylon tells the story of the camel trader who got no-where until he paid off his debt.

THINK. Lenders will lend an amount of money that could be serviced with about 30% of your income. In other words... if you earn $3,000 a month, they will lend you an amount that would require monthly repayments of $1,000.

If you did not take on this debt, you would have $1,000 a month spare money to spend.

It also means... with such a debt you could actually live on $1,000 less per month - after all, with the debt you don't see that money anyway.

I mentioned Karol's post... in that post his parents arrived with about $400. Including whatever else they had (clothes etc.) they may have had a positive net worth of $500 and no debt.

In that situation they are forced to spend wisely and can't get into debt even if they want to. The no-debt habit forms, they end up not ever needing debt. And certainly not using it to buy do-dads.

So there you have it... the plain & simple (and yet ellusive) advantage migrants have - and why they often become more of a success than a native born citizen.

Thank you all for your input. Please feel free to add to this.

Michael Ross


The publication started by the children of migrants

Thanks, Michael!

> For the last few days I've led you on a
> merry chase. Trying to get you to THINK -
> use your noggin - about why a migrant has a
> tendency to succeed more oft than a native
> born citizen.

> I could've just come out and said it. You
> would have nodded your head and gone on your
> way. Far better if you discover it for
> yourself. Because then you own it... it
> becomes an epiphany. The kind that
> Archimedes had when he sat in his bath and
> it overflowed.

> Let me thank all of you who took part in
> that thread... and the many who read along
> without posting. Some of you "got
> it" right away. Some of you skirted
> around the edge. And some decided it would
> be better to hit me with a sock full of
> pennies.

> Before telling you what it is (oh my, I
> sound like Morpheus talking to Neo in The
> Matrix... would you like to know what...
> it... is?), let me relate a story which has
> the necessary ingredients - though hidden as
> usual...

> Joe - not his real name - arrived in the US
> with some clothes and a few spare bucks. He
> could not speak English.

> He got himself a minimum wage job - the kind
> people who cannot speak English get because
> they don't really have any other choice -
> and a place to stay.

> He worked during the day and took English
> lessons at night. Once he had learned
> English he saved up enough money to buy a
> welder and some metal (he loved welding). He
> then set about welding security bars for
> windows and selling them to the people who
> lived around him.

> He now has a very large business selling
> security devices for windows, hires only
> migrants who cannot speak much English and
> pays for their English lessons himself. He
> also donates $250,000 per year to
> "bodies" that teach English to
> newcomers who cannot speak English.

> His story is typical of migrants.

> Now let me quote some of the posts that
> "got it right". (All bold added by
> me.)

> First there is Tam's post... the first
> person to get it...
> Having nothing (especially debt ) can be
> very liberating. Think about it, many
> imigrants come from extremely poor countries
> looking for a better life and don't take for
> granted all that we do. Instead of spending
> their earnings to pay debt (for items that
> could be considered luxeries) or keep up
> with the Joneses, they invest in themselves
> and the basics. There are so many things
> people think they need simply because the
> have always had it or becuase someone else
> has it.

> Here's an example of the difference. A kid
> moves out of his parents home to live on his
> own. He gets cable, an entertainment center,
> new car, eats out, etc. and goes into debt
> - why? Because that is what his parents did
> but what he doesn't consider that either
> they are carrying a lot of debt (and that
> money could be spent elsewhere) or that they
> slowly worked up to the point where they
> were able to afford the extras. Then he sees
> other people have things and he thinks he
> needs them to.

> An imigrant comes to this country with
> nothing (and usually not having had all
> these extras) and worries about the basics.
> He then invests in himself. Next to get it
> was Chris H
> WHY are they able to survive on the
> minimum

> ... have no debt and stay out of debt.

> When they enter their new home, they
> (presumably) have no debts... Steve
> Rollison also got it (pretty well) in a
> round about way...

> Immigrants--most of them, anyway--arrive
> without any "stuff" (as the great
> philosopher and observer-of-life, George
> Carlin, puts it). Consequently, they don't
> have to divert any of their meager incomes
> to "maintaining and upgrading"
> their stuff.

> Example: If I drove a beat-up wreck of a
> car, I'd "have to" spend money on
> repairs to keep it running... or buy a newer
> car ( probably on credit ).

> Without having to spend money on maintaining
> any "stuff," (going into debt -
> MR) immigrants are able to invest their
> meager incomes in themselves (e.g.
> education) and in their dreams (e.g.
> entrepreneurial undertakings or
> savings/investment accounts).

> Such investment becomes habit... which leads
> to long term financial success.

> In a similar vein, many "native"
> citizens come to the conclusion late in life
> that they need to invest in
> themselves--instead of buying more stuff--if
> they are going to be able to enjoy
> comfortable retirements.

> Unfortunately, most of them reach this
> conclusion with too few years left to be
> able to turn their "spend, spend,
> spend" lives around. Steve, like Tam,
> expanded on the reasoning. Showing how it
> matched the criteria I hinted at.

> They arrive in the country debt free ! They
> are adults with all the usual adult
> knowledge but without debt . With no
> credit history or the other items Simon
> mentioned in his post, they can't even get
> into debt if they wanted to. They are forced
> to live within their means. As their means
> are very little, a minimum wage job does see
> them get by. The excess (savings) is spent
> in self-investment or business pursuits. By
> the time they "qualify" for the
> opportunity to get into debt, they have the
> habit of living without debt.

> People spend their whole lives trying to get
> out of debt. They want instant riches - to
> pay off their debt. Bankruptcy is viewed as
> debt relief. Look at all the "debt
> relief" ads in your local newspapers.
> They start their adult life in debt - from
> university fees, etc. Then immediately get
> into more debt right away - car loan, home
> loan (got to have the American, UK,
> Australian, whatever country you live in,
> dream), hire-purchase, rent-to-own, lease to
> own, pre-approved credit cards, and so on.
> As long as they can make the payments they
> think they are fine.

> Reality check. Sell off all your do-dads to
> pay off your debt. Are you debt free? The
> answer is probably NO! So, you have a
> negative net worth. (Scarey thought.)

> The migrant with just $1 in their pocket and
> no debt has a positive net worth. They start
> out infront of where most people are today.

> Sure they have less "stuff". They
> have NO DEBT though. So they aren't going to
> spend the next 25 years paying for something
> that has long outlived its usefulness, and
> may even be thrown out with the trash.

> Amber also...

> ...save part of their earnings... and can
> then, much easier, take advantage of an
> opportunity than if they are encumbered with
> debt... And Alexander too...

> Immigrants have cultivated a THINKING
> PROCESS/HABIT of living on essentials with
> the money they have back in their country.
> When they arrive in the 'better' new
> country, not only they have no debt , they
> CAN live on 'minimum wages' (minimum wages
> IN THE NEW COUNTRY - could be MAXIMUM back
> in their country) because that's what they
> have been doing. To expand... and not just
> from a poor-to-rich country example, but
> from a western country to another western
> country example...

> It costs money to go live in another
> country. Airfare. How much? At least $1,000
> one way, per person, from Australia.

> But that other country won't just let you in
> with a passport. They want to see: proof you
> can support yourself, proof of job offer,
> proof of the half a million to one million
> dollars you are bringing with you.
> (Depending on which type of Visa you want to
> enter on.)

> To do this... have enough money to live on
> and enough money to get over there in the
> first place... usually means you have to
> save it up. Very hard to save when you are
> in mountains of debt.

> Also, the moment you leave you will most
> likely have sold off everything else you
> own. Clearing your debt in one hit.

> You arrive as a debt free adult with a
> life's worth of knowledge - and hopefully -
> wisdom.

> Most people in the country you move to will
> be in debt. They will only get out of debt
> when they retire and their
> "payout" pays off their debt. But
> at 65+ years, this is too late for most
> people to increase their wealth. And
> besides, they still do not have the "no
> debt" habit.

> But you, with no "history" in that
> country, are forced to live a debt free
> life. Without debt tremendous amounts of
> money can be saved and then invested - which
> will make more money.

> The Richest Man in Babylon tells the story
> of the camel trader who got no-where until
> he paid off his debt.

> THINK. Lenders will lend an amount of money
> that could be serviced with about 30% of
> your income. In other words... if you earn
> $3,000 a month, they will lend you an amount
> that would require monthly repayments of
> $1,000.

> If you did not take on this debt, you would
> have $1,000 a month spare money to spend.

> It also means... with such a debt you could
> actually live on $1,000 less per month -
> after all, with the debt you don't see that
> money anyway.

> I mentioned Karol's post... in that post his
> parents arrived with about $400. Including
> whatever else they had (clothes etc.) they
> may have had a positive net worth of $500
> and no debt.

> In that situation they are forced to spend
> wisely and can't get into debt even if they
> want to. The no-debt habit forms, they end
> up not ever needing debt. And certainly not
> using it to buy do-dads.

> So there you have it... the plain &
> simple (and yet ellusive) advantage migrants
> have - and why they often become more of a
> success than a native born citizen.

> Thank you all for your input. Please feel
> free to add to this.

> Michael Ross

Michael,

That's an excellent point. I am always amazed at how many people carry debt without a thought -- especially credit card debt!

It's also interesting that there are many ways to get out of debt. But it seems that almost no one is interested.

The easiest an quickest way is simply to sell off those items that we own via debt and then buy them back (if desired) in cash after saving up to do so.

Another way is the plan that real-estate investor John Burley describes in his book Automatic Wealth. It involves paying off one debt at a time and then "pyramiding" your payments to pay the others off very quickly. He estimates that the average american family could use that plan to become debt-free (including mortgages, cars, and everything) in 3-7 years. That's the plan I usually recommend to others.

It really is amazing how indebted people are (at least here in America). I have friends who I would not be surprised if half of their expenses are for debt payments. If they would pay off their debts, they could instantly double their effective salary.

Thanks for the thread,

--Phil

...and here's why:

Coincidentally, I've actually been living this way(debt free - sorta) as I grow older. I've been doing the opposite of what most people do - accumulating things. I literally picked a place to live where the cost of living was low, but still had a kinda' cool lifestyle - IN the CITY.

That last part is quite important - let me explain: I've done the whole "bigger, better car" thing for years and years... then I realized that I really enjoyed my old classic 1968 Mercury Cougar much more than anything I'd been paying for monthly - so I kept that and sold everything else. But I still had the same problem... a need for transportation(due to living in the burbs) ...the car was still old, no matter how much I loved it... it was still prone to breaking down... and still required insurance.

So what to do? While I enjoyed the vehicle, it was not going to hold me back... I decided to have it detagged (and stored) and move into the center of the city where I'd have access to rapid transit (subway's and lightrails - sorry I won't do the bus) ...and all the culture the city could give me (not to mention the high-class broads that frequent the jazz clubs and coffee establishments)...moved into an apt. in an old pre-civil war building, in a fairly (though not totally) safe neighborhood with lotsa' history.

...next, get rid of non-essential stuff. If it's not something like a family heirloom, sell it on eBay, give it to a friend or toss it out.

...next - I told all close to me if or when they decided to give me anything for holidays, birthdays etc.etc. - "give me something I can remember, rather than hold" ... this way you don't accumulate things that are difficult to throw away due to sentiment (btw, something to remember is stuff like tickets to the ball game or the opera.. or dinner, etc.etc. - you get what I mean)

...next - work within environments where you are forced to utilize good communication skills (or build them through osmosis) - and find this type of path within walking distance so your commute to work is no more than 10 minutes by foot. (btw, this applies to the "day job" until one learns enough through groups like these to become self supporting. The point though is - if a day job is required, do something that helps to build skills portable and or transferable to what you really want to do)

These rules have given me a wonderful foundation to build upon - save for one...

... dealing with women. It's a sad but unfortunate fact of life that women - those that are highly desirable, anyway, are simply not going to be interested in you unless you have things or a high position of status. This simply harkens back to the darwinism that rules us all... women in caveman times were attracted to physical displays of prowess - thus insuring survival of the species. That simply translates today to display of prowess via possessions - which trigger the "survival" button in a womans "cavewoman" nerve center.

Sure, sure, if you become more, these things will come to you, but when you're on the road to building that dream it's a dreaded time period that one must bite the bullet and endure.

Furthermore, the reason why men "discover" that it's not about "things" later in life, is because they've either realized that life isn't worth throwing away on women - or further, they simply have gotten old to the point that the desire to chase skirts is no longer as desirable as it used to be... or a combination of these things.

(as a side note, can you imagine how the economy of the world would turn upside down if suddenly a virus - like some kinda' SARS epidemic or who knows what - hit men and made them simply lose interest in trying to impress women? Yes - rather impossible, I agree - as this is deeply engrained in our "caveman nerve center"... but it's an amusing thought... perhaps someone in Hollywood should throw together a good screenplay on such).

So anyway, my whole point is, I accidently - or perhaps through just plain dumb-luck happened onto this lifestyle some time ago... and I've never really looked back.

Just fyi.

-Anon

P.S.- I'm lucky that i can do this because I'm single with no children and no alimony - thank God... so I suppose I'm kinda' a best case scenario).

Micheal,

Excellent observation!

It reminds me of one of my favorite passages from Rich Dad, Poor Dad in describing one of the truest measures of financial independence.

According to Robert Kiyosaki, it is the number of months you can go without income and still maintain the same lifestyle.

Nice discussion, Michael.

Robert Campbell

Hi,

You mean you designed your life instead of just drifting into it?

(That's what my wife and I did, also.)

You wrote:
> P.S.- I'm lucky that i can do this because
> I'm single with no children and no alimony -

My advice, for what it's worth, (btw this is a case of do as I say, not as I did since my ex-wife and I had twin daughters) my advice is always make your life-changing decisions with the head on top of your neck or your children and alimony situation could change drastically.

Best,

- Boyd

Boyd -

I'm flattered you might think I actually designed my life - and I guess from the post I wrote (which is 100% true - though slightly embellished) ...that's the way it appears... but I can't claim credit for taking that "leap" when, in fact, I was rather pushed out the window...

...to put it simply, I'm a dot-com refugee (this is how I "accidently - or perhaps through just plain dumb-luck" came upon my new lifestyle... yeah I know... hey - I'm being honest). I didn't set out to design things the way I wrote - but once I was in free-fall, I realized "Jesus! Oh Jesus!! From 6-figures per year to 6 dollars per hour!! Where's my parachute?! I don't have one!! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!"

(when you're in freefall it's not like you're thinking clearly)

...but seriously, after the panic attack faded I took a deep breath and thought "hmm... how can I turn this around and enjoy whatever it is I do - even though I'll be paid relatively little?" ...and thus you have the outline/new rules I mentioned (there's a bit more to it than that also, but you get the idea).

So my utmost respect lies with you for actually having the guts to design things without being pushed out the door, unlike myself (and perhaps others)... Thanks for the advice ... it's always welcome from you.

- Anon

p.s. - Boyd, have ya' got an email address? (yeah - quite a lotta' nerve I got when I don't reveal my own - ey?)

> Hi,

> You mean you designed your life instead of
> just drifting into it?

> (That's what my wife and I did, also.)

> You wrote:

> My advice, for what it's worth, (btw this is
> a case of do as I say, not as I did since my
> ex-wife and I had twin daughters) my advice
> is always make your life-changing decisions
> with the head on top of your neck or your
> children and alimony situation could change
> drastically.

> Best,

> - Boyd

> appears... but I can't claim credit for
> taking that "leap" when, in fact,
> I was rather pushed out the window...

That's the thing. We can't control every circumstance in our lives, but we can choose how we react to them.

Regards,
Steve MacLellan


homebusiness-websites.com

Hi,

You wrote:
> ...but seriously, after the panic attack
> faded I took a deep breath and thought
> "hmm... how can I turn this around and
> enjoy whatever it is I do - even though I'll
> be paid relatively little?" ...and thus
> you have the outline/new rules I mentioned
> (there's a bit more to it than that also,
> but you get the idea).

A couple of weeks ago while drinking beer I suddenly lurched to my feet and orated:

"It'shh true wha' they say, it's not th' deshtination that's important--i'ss th' journey!!!" (My wife is sick of my speechmaking; she says I should have been a preacher.)

You wrote:
> p.s. - Boyd, have ya' got an email address?

Despite the sleazy sound of: [email protected] it'll work. (Thanks for asking, btw.)

Best,

- Boyd