A revisit to the Hydro-Cyclone Generator.

[GordonJ]

A few years ago, I consulted with electrical and mechnical engineers regarding my concept of a free standing Hydro-Electric Generator.

Basically, instead of a damned up stream or river and a waterfall to turn a turbine...it would be a "water tower", SORT of shaped like a Cake Ice cream cone, although with a point at the bottom.

Pressurized venturied water is used to turn the turbine.

The problem was how to get the water back into the tower without expending more energy than you create?

The solution was found in a study of ancient Rome and in particular a few of the spectacular Water Shows they put on...both at the Coliseum and the Fucine Lake built specifically for Water Shows.

Anyhow, the ancients knew a thing or two about water...they even "sipnoned" the mountain lakes to have water in Rome.

Simple mechanical ram pumps, much like the one on my Grandmother's Farm back in PA...which pumped water from a stream up to the well, where it could be further hand pumped for use.

So, today there are protests in Germany regarding nuclear power plants. Soon, the CALIF nuclear plants will be surrounded by protestors (not that the hardcore have gone away)...

No new drilling in America. Saudi troops storming the Kingdom of Baharain after quelling their own "day of rage" with bread and rubber bullets.

America called for Mubarak to step down. We told Kaddahfy he must go...although by this weekend, he may have successful put down the revlolution. We celebrated the Libyan people's uprising against a dicator whom we've supported for years...but were totally silent when it came to the young protestors in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia.

If you still think it isn't about oil... well....whatever.

I'm heartsick about Japan. I have a couple of clients there, one told me via skype he helped out in a disaster relief center for 15 hours and with a very sore and aching back...this is the best of America here.

He also reported there will be rolling power outages for the next few months in his area, and perhaps all over the country.

The Earthquake and Tsunami serve as a reminder to how powerful so-called "Mother Nature" can be.

The NJ floods will soon be matched by the surging Red River and we're just heading into Tornado season.

You need to make as much CASH as fast as you can.
It wouldn't hurt you to buy tomorrow's food at today's prices
And it will help you to join or form a co-op to stretch your buying power.

Speaking of power, I spent the weekend reviewing the HYDRO-CYCLONE GENERATOR and I may pursue that course...

Do you think the US is ready for a safe, reliable, non hazardous approach to producing energy?

It hasn't been for decades, but maybe, just maybe...we can present some of these alternative energy sources to ears that listen.

Gordon Jay Alexander ... Creator/Inventor of the Hydro-Cyclone Generator...

PS. Any other alternative energy folks reading?

[Ankesh]

The problem was how to get the water back into the tower without expending more energy than you create?

The solution was found in a study of ancient Rome and in particular a few of the spectacular Water Shows they put on

Umm... could you point to the solution - any writeup about it online?

Because my understanding is that its impossible. Rolling water up the tower will take more energy than water rolling down will generate.

(I love reading about attempts made in creating perpetual motion machines.)

Do you think the US is ready for a safe, reliable, non hazardous approach to producing energy?

Not unless its cheap too.

My bet is on:

1. Solar energy. But not solar farms. Instead - all windows being converted into solar windows. This is very inefficient as of now - but should change in the next few years.

2. Using the idea behind cox clocks to run small devices.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cox%27s_timepiece
Cox clock worked without any external source of power. It worked because of the natural difference between day temperature and night temperature.

3. Windmills in the sky.
http://www.makanipower.com/
and turbines in oceans.
(This probably is the most cost effective substitute to oil and coal in my opinion. Low startup investments. Almost any place in the world is suitable. Works through out the year - not seasonal. Safe. Cheap.)

How you can make money of this trend?

Solar roof installation kits and services are an easy sell.

Power audit services will sell well too. You go to medium to big businesses and tell them you'll help them cut their power needs.

Trading in carbon certificates is going to be huge.

You could make quite a bit of moolah by selling carbon certificates to small businesses and allowing them to claim that they are 100% green...
One person already doing it for websites: http://www.co2stats.com/

Originally Posted by Ankesh

Umm... could you point to the solution - any writeup about it online?

Because my understanding is that its impossible. Rolling water up the tower will take more energy than water rolling down will generate.

(I love reading about attempts made in creating perpetual motion machines.)

/

The hydraulic ram, from 1772, is used to raise water with no external power source other than water head.

There is one in use at a dam near my house. It raises water from the lake to a supply tank at the gate keeper's house.

[GordonJ]

I don't Ankesh, you're reading something I didn't write about.

You understanding is based on limited information as to what this is trying to do. There is no perpetual motion, but there are simple solutions to basic ideas. Do you have experience with a ram pump?

Do you know how they get water from a well with a vacuum pump?

There are mechanical, electrical and magnetic parts, all of which have wear and tear and friction...no thought of perpetual motion here. But I do appreciate your cynicism...I've run into a lot of it, mostly by people who don't have much experience in these things.

Originally Posted by Ankesh

Umm... could you point to the solution - any writeup about it online?

Because my understanding is that its impossible. Rolling water up the tower will take more energy than water rolling down will generate.

(I love reading about attempts made in creating perpetual motion machines.)



Not unless its cheap too.

Can't get much cheaper than water.

My bet is on:

1. Solar energy. But not solar farms. Instead - all windows being converted into solar windows. This is very inefficient as of now - but should change in the next few years.

Why would it change? The basic very basic, ingredient in making solar panels are precious metals which are part of a speculative market...we'll never see affordable solar in our lifetime.

2. Using the idea behind cox clocks to run small devices.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cox%27s_timepiece
Cox clock worked without any external source of power. It worked because of the natural difference between day temperature and night temperature.

Bimetal differentials are used in many mfgr processes. One metal bends sooner than another.


3. Windmills in the sky.
http://www.makanipower.com/
and turbines in oceans.
(This probably is the most cost effective substitute to oil and coal in my opinion. Low startup investments. Almost any place in the world is suitable. Works through out the year - not seasonal. Safe. Cheap.)

Never going to happen.

How you can make money of this trend?

Solar roof installation kits and services are an easy sell.

Power audit services will sell well too. You go to medium to big businesses and tell them you'll help them cut their power needs.

Trading in carbon certificates is going to be huge.

You could make quite a bit of moolah by selling carbon certificates to small businesses and allowing them to claim that they are 100% green...
One person already doing it for websites: http://www.co2stats.com/

Well, your opinions are appreciated, but, you lack understanding on this point. Nice research, however,

Gordon Alexander

[GordonJ]

Originally Posted by Bozo

The hydraulic ram, from 1772, is used to raise water with no external power source other than water head.

There is one in use at a dam near my house. It raises water from the lake to a supply tank at the gate keeper's house.

Thanks Bozo, when you combine a hydraulic ram with a vacuum, just as when you prime a pump, the water can be raised high enough to let the siphoning take over. It's not magical, mystical and has nothing to do with perpetual motion...devices were made in the middle ages that circulated water...it wasn't perpetual, however, because the water evaporated and the mechanic aspects of it wore out...

My Grandmother raised water from a creek with a hydraulic ram and from a pool (cistern) the good old hand pump would bring it even further up the hill.

NOT new ideas, just using what is out there and thinking outside the box.

Gordon Jay Alexander

PS. There are solar furnaces, much like polished mirrors, which can instantly turn water into steam...these solar furnaces (mirrors) are already used in many mfgr applications. It doesn't take much focused sunlight to create a lot of heat...every 10 year old with a magnifying glass knows that. But they don't think about converting the heat into steam...do they?

[Ankesh]

Thanks Bozo and GJA.

My error in understanding.

This stuff seems interesting. Will read up further on it.

[GordonJ]

Here are some of the mistakes other's have made regarding this project...

first, the shape of "water tower" ... they see Gilbert Grape climbing up to rescue his brother...

All water towers are round, or cylindrical...arent' they? Do they have to be? Can they be in a shape of a diamond?

Do they have to be totally vertical? Can they be different shapes? Do they have to be totally "fixed"? Can they have some motion to them?

How do you pressurize the water without expending a lot of energy?

How do you venturi the water in such way it builds significant pressure?

How do you "gear" the turbine to produce either a set output or variable output? For example, when charging batteries, a trickle charge, can you use less force?

Do you need batteries? What kind? What is the smallest scalable tower with sufficient output? Can a small backyard tower, sort of like a tree house, could that supply ONE 2400 square foot house, under normal uses? What about peak us...AC in Summer/heat in Winter?

How big could it be? What kind of generator is needed? Could existing motors be used?

And that just begins the QUESTIONING process. Rather than just hear an idea, without any information, without any knowledge of what has already been researched and established...I'd personally be hesitant about mocking anyone's ideas...

so, the ASSUMPTION that none of this has been thought through...well, it irks me. Especially when it comes from someone whom I respect.

I don't have a problem IF I had said it was some sort of "perpetual motion" type of thing...but it is a device, with solid mechanical and electrical principles behind it...I haven't discovered anything new...

which has a major problem...does it use more energy than it makes?

And for the record, these things don't need to be highly efficeint to be effective...a positive useful gain of energy might be all that is needed to keep the lights on.

But if an earthquake hit one directly, or a Tsunami, a drunk bus driver coming back from the casino...the worst thing that happens is some spilled water and cease in output.

No need for iodine pills.

Gordon Jay Alexander

PS. Although I was pretty much the "dumb cook" on the nuclear powered submarine...I did enlist as a nuclear power recruit and spent a lot of time in the reactor compartment learning how it worked...in case I needed to boil some beans...I knew where to find the steam to do so.

Originally Posted by Ankesh

Thanks Bozo and GJA.

My error in understanding.

This stuff seems interesting. Will read up further on it.

[Glenn]

Thanks Gordon,

You need to make as much CASH as fast as you can.
It wouldn't hurt you to buy tomorrow's food at today's prices
And it will help you to join or form a co-op to stretch your buying power.

Good Advice!

I just got off the phone with a lady who lost her job.

Decided to start a Printing Business from her home. She had Zero moolah for marketing. So she joined her local Chamber of Commerce.

She met the president of the Chamber.

Offered to do all of his printing, typing, mailing AT HER COST.

A year later she's been referred so much
business that she has a six figure income!!

The members and even visitors to the Chamber of commerce meetings want to do business with a proven person they TRUST.

Glenn

P.S. - I did something similar to get the Content for my Best Selling - 200% - 2 year Money back Guaranteed STRESS RELIEF book.

"How to Knock out Stress in 30 Seconds or Less"

I helped a Genius Psychologist - for FREE. She taught me her Anti-Stress System that she invented.

http://archive.enchantednlp.com/products.php?id=87

[Ankesh]

Thanks Gordon for your passionate post.

I wasn't mocking. If you felt that way - then apologies.

Hi Gordon,

Thank you for bringing UP "Free Energy"
and things related to it.

I absolutely LOVE this Stuff!

What do You think about Magnetic forms of Energy?

I've seen some YouTube Vids on creating energy
using magnets.
Here is an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3Ngt3nh6q8
... and another one;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bodv-gvoO2A&NR=1

Do a Search on YouTube for "Magnetic Motor"
(and "Magnetic Energy," etc...) and You'll find
LOTS of Vids demonstrating how to create a
'motor' run by magnets.

Lots of vids on creating wind turbines, and other
'Free Electricity' methods, as well...

Interesting stuff!

Thanks,
Christopher

-----------------------------------------

Originally Posted by GordonJ

A few years ago, I consulted with electrical and mechnical engineers regarding my concept of a free standing Hydro-Electric Generator.

Basically, instead of a damned up stream or river and a waterfall to turn a turbine...it would be a "water tower", SORT of shaped like a Cake Ice cream cone, although with a point at the bottom.

Pressurized venturied water is used to turn the turbine.

The problem was how to get the water back into the tower without expending more energy than you create?

The solution was found in a study of ancient Rome and in particular a few of the spectacular Water Shows they put on...both at the Coliseum and the Fucine Lake built specifically for Water Shows.

Anyhow, the ancients knew a thing or two about water...they even "sipnoned" the mountain lakes to have water in Rome.

Simple mechanical ram pumps, much like the one on my Grandmother's Farm back in PA...which pumped water from a stream up to the well, where it could be further hand pumped for use.

So, today there are protests in Germany regarding nuclear power plants. Soon, the CALIF nuclear plants will be surrounded by protestors (not that the hardcore have gone away)...

No new drilling in America. Saudi troops storming the Kingdom of Baharain after quelling their own "day of rage" with bread and rubber bullets.

America called for Mubarak to step down. We told Kaddahfy he must go...although by this weekend, he may have successful put down the revlolution. We celebrated the Libyan people's uprising against a dicator whom we've supported for years...but were totally silent when it came to the young protestors in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia.

If you still think it isn't about oil... well....whatever.

I'm heartsick about Japan. I have a couple of clients there, one told me via skype he helped out in a disaster relief center for 15 hours and with a very sore and aching back...this is the best of America here.

He also reported there will be rolling power outages for the next few months in his area, and perhaps all over the country.

The Earthquake and Tsunami serve as a reminder to how powerful so-called "Mother Nature" can be.

The NJ floods will soon be matched by the surging Red River and we're just heading into Tornado season.

You need to make as much CASH as fast as you can.
It wouldn't hurt you to buy tomorrow's food at today's prices
And it will help you to join or form a co-op to stretch your buying power.

Speaking of power, I spent the weekend reviewing the HYDRO-CYCLONE GENERATOR and I may pursue that course...

Do you think the US is ready for a safe, reliable, non hazardous approach to producing energy?

It hasn't been for decades, but maybe, just maybe...we can present some of these alternative energy sources to ears that listen.

Gordon Jay Alexander ... Creator/Inventor of the Hydro-Cyclone Generator...

PS. Any other alternative energy folks reading?