Why do people have a fear of success?

Mike,

Interesting response, Mike.... when you get up on that soapbox, there's no stoppin ya! :)

Mike... well... I don't agree with all you say....

I think some very successful people can have a "fear of failure"....

Let me tell you how I see it....

I think a "fear of failure" could make you react in one of two ways:

1. You work like CRAZY so you DON'T fail, or
2. You don't work at all so you have a ready EXCUSE why you failed

You were talking about no. 2, which I believe is right, but I believe no. 1 can be a true consequence of "fear of failure" too....

If you HATE to fail, and you don't allow yourself any excuses, then you work like crazy so you DON'T fail....

Or at least I believe that's one way it can work....

Thanks for your speech! :)

Cheers,

Dien

P.S. I have a very good, impeccable source for what I said.... Ever watch that 1980s sitcom, "Family Ties"? Alex P. Keaton (played by Michael J. Fox) was the standard academic overachiever.... and I believe in one episode, he said he worked so hard because he had a fear of failure. Well, how can you argue against this sort of source? :)

P.P.S. Another example, from my own life.... When I was growing up, I got in trouble if I didn't bring home good grades. Well, my parents would show how disappointed (and sometimes even angry) they were with every bad grade, and how pleased they were with every good grade. I had a genuine fear of bringing home those bad grades! It made me (usually) work harder.... You might say I feared the consequence of failure.... and no excuses were allowed!

I just thought of something....

> 1. You work like CRAZY so you DON'T fail, or
> 2. You don't work at all so you have a ready
> EXCUSE why you failed

I just realized that this is the standard "fight or flight" response to fear....

Working like CRAZY is the "fight" response....

Not working at all is the "flight" response....

- Dien

Jason:

Well, here I go ... jumping into a swarm of male opinions!

A person that I have a great deal of respect for recently asked me if I had a fear of success. I was awestruck! Me? Fear of success? Gawd no! I'm as hungry for success and all its trappings as the next person.

But then we got to talking. And one thing that I got out of our discussion is that fear of success is NOT the same as fear of failure.

I'm not afraid to try whatever it takes to achieve "success." I've gone out on a limb many-a-time in the past to reach that "star." And I've experienced many failures along the way. But I haven't been afraid to get up and try again.

So why don't I have the "success" that I want?

I think one of the posters was "right on" in that we often don't want to leave our comfort level. Those who have a fear of success wonder what life will be like if they become "successful." Will their friends change? Will their lifestyle change? Will they have to dress differently? Will people think differently about them?

Yes, I know. Some of you are probably thinking, who cares? But for those who have this "fear," these things hold a major place in their thinking.

The fear may be totally subconscious -- in fact it often is, which is why I reacted to my friend as I did. But as we probed deeper, I discovered that yes, there was some fear of success floating around.

Hope my little dissertation sparks some thought.

Nan




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Mike,

> Dien... This isn't Fear of Failure. It's
> Fear of Pain! If he was afraid of failure he
> wouldn't jump at all. But he doesn't fear
> failure and he doesn't fear pain.

I still think you can have a "fight or flight" response to genuine fear....

For example, kids are always daring each other. I can imagine Evel Knievel as a kid....

Probably little Johnny said to little Evel, "I bet you can't jump over 5 stacked up car tires on your bike."

"Can too!"

"Come on, I dare ya!"

While a number of kids would refuse to do it (flight response), little Evel probably said something like,

"Let me show you, but you have to give me that big clear marble you've got if I do it, okay?"
(fight response, with a bit of entrepreneurial spirit thrown in :)

- Dien

P.S. There's a good Aussie movie called "Strictly Ballroom." While the surface of the plot is about a Ballroom Dancing competition, the underlying story is about FEAR and conquering your fears. A phrase repeated throughout the movie is,

"A life lived in fear is a life half-lived."

If you don't FACE YOUR FEARS and do it, you'll live with that fear for the rest of your life.

>

> If you HATE to fail, and you don't allow
> yourself any excuses , then you work like
> crazy so you DON'T fail....

It's called compensation. There are many people
who "appear" to be successful but they compensate
for feelings of inadequacy by working hard and
making money, going to school etc.
Just because you make a lot of money doesn't
mean you don't have a fear of success or failure.

> P.P.S. Another example, from my own life....
> When I was growing up, I got in trouble if I
> didn't bring home good grades.

Oh my....why did you have to go there? ;-)
Same thing happened to me...had to bring in
all "A's" and now as an adult I have this
trauma: "the need to please"...it is diminishing
however because I realized you can never please
anyone but yourself.

In fact this "over compensation" is the complicating factor in determining my goals
right now. Sometimes I set goals and later
find they aren't really my goals but "goals
my parents want me to have"(substitutes for
bringing home the "a's")

Well, my
> parents would show how disappointed (and
> sometimes even angry) they were with every
> bad grade,

Severe punishments or "whippings" anyone....
now it would be considered abuse... ;-)

Oh...dien why did you have to go there? ;-)

Hi Nan,

> Well, here I go ... jumping into a swarm of
> male opinions!

Heheh... we definitely DON'T want this to be a "male-dominated" board.... The more women who contribute the better it can be.... :)

> I think one of the posters was "right
> on" in that we often don't want to
> leave our comfort level. Those who have a
> fear of success wonder what life will be
> like if they become "successful."
> Will their friends change? Will their
> lifestyle change? Will they have to dress
> differently? Will people think differently
> about them?

> Yes, I know. Some of you are probably
> thinking, who cares? But for those who have
> this "fear," these things hold a
> major place in their thinking.

> The fear may be totally subconscious -- in
> fact it often is, which is why I reacted to
> my friend as I did. But as we probed deeper,
> I discovered that yes, there was some fear
> of success floating around.

> Hope my little dissertation sparks some
> thought.

Wow, thanks Nan.... I thought that was pretty insightful....

I had never thought of that, but I can see how that could happen....

For me, there are certain limits to how far I'd want to go. I think I would hate being the kind of person who is instantly recognized on the street.... I think it's nice to have some anonymity while you're going out to dinner or to the movies or whatever. :)

But there's still a long way to go before I have to start worrying about that!

I wonder if I have any "hidden" fear of success somewhere...? I'd have to give that quite a bit of thought....

Thank you for sharing those insights! :)

Dien

Hi Sandy :)

> It's called compensation. There are many
> people who "appear" to be successful but
> they compensate for feelings of inadequacy by
> working hard and making money, going to
> school etc. Just because you make a lot of
> money doesn't mean you don't have a fear of
> success or failure.

Wow.... Sandy, this is spooky.... I probably shouldn't admit this, but you are describing me pretty well....

> Oh my....why did you have to go there? ;-)
> Same thing happened to me...had to bring in
> all "A's" and now as an adult I have this
> trauma: "the need to please"...it is diminishing
> however because I realized you can never please
> anyone but yourself.

"The need to please".... Yes, I often suffer from that too....

I think it often hinders my attempts at "sales"....

But on the plus side, it does predispose me to a WIN/WIN/WIN approach, which I think is a good thing.... :)

> In fact this "over compensation"
> is the complicating factor in determining my goals
> right now. Sometimes I set goals and later
> find they aren't really my goals but
> "goals
> my parents want me to have"(substitutes
> for
> bringing home the "a's")

I think I went through that, but I'm over it now I think.... I did the whole academic thing, all the way to Ph.D. and even working in academia -- which may have been (at least partly) subconsciously to please my parents (who are both academically inclined)....

However, I've finally broken away from that and am exploring new horizons! :)

Sandy, I know you can do that too.... :) (Just coming here I think shows that....)

> Well, my Severe punishments or "whippings" anyone....
> now it would be considered abuse... ;-)

I guess I might have been a little bit luckier.... While I did sometimes get a spanking if I misbehaved, the worst I got for bad grades would be that I'd be yelled at.... My parents would be a combination of angry and disappointed at each bad grade, and if it was bad enough they might yell at me because of it.... But for good grades I got praise and enthusiasm.

I love my parents (don't get me wrong), because I know they had my best interests at heart -- but it is interesting how similar our backgrounds seem to be, Sandy!

> Oh...dien why did you have to go there? ;-)

Well... Sandy, we seem to have a LOT in common.... This is quite amazing! :) (At least to me! I hope I'm not boring everyone else to tears... :)

Thanks Sandy, I've found everything you've said so far to be eerily compelling! :)

Dien

Bob,

> During my plebe year at the Naval Academy,
> we had four allowed answers to any order:
> Yes Sir, No Sir, NO EXCUSE, SIR, and I'll
> find out Sir.

> What that meant was do it or don't do it,
> but don't give excuses for your actions or
> lack thereof. Legitimate REASONS spoke for
> themselves, excuses were just a delaying
> tactic!

Yes, I think that's true.... EXCUSES can be a big problem.... If we don't allow ourselves excuses, I think the better we can be.... :)

> In the business world, if people would take
> action, do their best, ask for help, try
> again and quit making excuses, a lot more
> would get done and a lot of useless emotion
> avoided.

Thanks Bob! That's great advice.... :)

That's one thing I've noticed in these various entrepreneurial stories I've read.... These true success stories just try try try again, whereas a lot of people just try once (if that) then give up....

Thanks :)

Dien

Bob,

> In my experience genuine fear of success
> stems from a fear of leaving a comfort zone,
> whether financial, social or emotional.

> When I was in the Navy, I knew individuals
> who refused to take advancement tests
> because they did not want to be promotable.
> They were comfortable performing at a
> mediocre level, and they did not want to
> leave their peer group. They didn't
> necessarily enjoy their jobs, however, but
> felt they "belonged" at their level.

> As a business consultant, I've encountered
> owners who would not take the necessary
> steps to grow their business because they
> weren't comfortable with the image of being
> more than a sole proprietor or mom & pop
> operation. They wanted the increased money,
> but not the image.

I think I can understand what you mean....

I can see maybe two things here....

One might be lack of ambition, and the second might be just that people don't want the extra hassle they perceive could come from increased success....

I'll talk about an example from my own thinking (right or wrong though it may be)....

I have a very old friend who is also in ecommerce. Her name is T.D., and she is the CEO of Bookface ( www.bookface.com ).

(By the way, I've talked with T. about some of the difficulties faced by her being not only a female CEO in ecommerce, but also about the fact that she's pretty young -- I admire women like her who face up to these difficulties and manage to get things going and achieve things....)

By pure chance, our parents are friends and we knew each other well as kids. Recently, we got back in touch....

We are both interested in ecommerce, but from different "angles" you might say.... and she is probably the smarter one here than me....

My friend T. is playing in the big leagues. She has venture capital backing, and has support from such giants like Time Warner. She's doing VERY well! Her plans are ambitious, and I admire her for that! :)

As for me.... I THINK I'd prefer not to have Venture Capital funding, and to keep control. (Though this could just be my ignorance talking here....) That's why I'm working on this "little" project, Sowpub, rather than a bigger project.... (Though Sowpub could expand. :)

I don't have any experience with running a big company, and I'm not sure I would enjoy that.... So I guess for "lifestyle" reasons you might say, I prefer to be my own boss and keep things small (at least for the moment.... I can expand later....)

But I think you can have genuine lifestyle reasons for making such a choice....

I think another reason, Bob (based on what you said) for "fear of success" in the way you are talking about it could just be lack of ambition.... If people are happy with their lives how they are, then I don't fault them for that. Let them enjoy life, I think. :) But if they grumble, then they ought to do something about it....

However, Bob, you've made me think if I should have much bigger ambitions for Sowpub!

Thank you, Bob, for those observations!

- Dien

The sweet taste of success!

I play racquetball hard not because I fear failure or losing... But because I enjoy winning!

Success has it's own sweet taste...

I have a Fear of Heights... But I climbed Devils Tower, a 700+ foot cooled core of an extinct volcano located in NE Wyoming. Our country's first National Monument.

Why did I climb it??? I didn't have to!!! Wasn't going to make or break me financially... I was scared to death of falling! My hands sweat typing this post thinking about it!

But I went and did it! And it was the mst exhilarating thing I've ever done! Now I lead climbs and once fell just a tad over 40 foot while climbing the Tower.

Fear of Failure may drive some... But I desire the taste of success... The thrill of a successful closing sale... The wonderment of what's behind the next door...

Fear of Failure or Fear of Success does not, cannot, live in my world. I have chosen to either do it or not. And make no excuses as to why.

I can't dunk a basketball yet I still play. I turned 40 yesterday and my girlfriend bought me rollerblades. I snowboard, rock climb, Mtn. Bike, compete in racquetball and I close sales.

Maybe fear of this or that, just isn't part of my chemistry. I do know I don't understand it.

Knock on the door or don't. If you're going to make sales a career than do everyhting you can to be the best at it you can be. Don't look for excuses or the "Whys".

In or out...

If someone plays 100% on the court I'll partner up with them regardless of how good or bad they are. If someone highly skilled isn't putting forth their best effort, I'll look for someone else.

Like I stated earlier... Maybe it was best to keep this one to myself!

~ Mike