Sales versus Marketing

Without getting into a debate of semantics, look at what Mike typed below, where he stated that no marketing took place:
-------------------------
> "Hello this is Mike..."
> "Mike??? You don't know me but JL said
> he gets his insurance from you and I want to
> switch! Can you do that???"
-------------------------
In this example, Mike's marketing was done when he sold and serviced JL. He marketed himself adequately enough to JL, that JL in turn did the selling to the new client. Mike simply took the order, which is far different than selling.
As Mike states, everyone has their own take on things, and it pretty much boils down to calling things what you choose.
The way my belief system is set up, however is that a sale can not take place unless some form of marketing prompted that. Marketing can be doing right by your client and generating word of mouth orders as a result. Marketing can be a big 7-Eleven sign positioned at roadside. Marketing can be wearing your best suit to help you sell yourself to a prospective employer. I suppose it boils down to one's own definitions of these terms.
Just my 2 cents.

> in what instance is this possible?

When I bought my water filter the instructions mentioned how much water could be filtered before a fresh cartridge was needed.

So every month I now buy a new water filter cartridge to replace the old one.

Whenever my car is low on gas I pull in and fill 'er up.

Whether the supermarket runs ads or not, I go in and buy food.

When my shoes wear out I buy another pair.

If I want to stay connected to the internet I pay my IPS monthly access bill.

Today my radiator sprang a small leak. I went to the autoparts store and asked if there was a stop-leak product for radiators. There was. I bought it.

The food I buy for my animals is the food they like - yes I've tried them all.

Whenever I need my hair cut I go get it cut.

Plenty of sales without marketing.

Michael Ross.

I guess I just do not see it like the rest of you. I don't see the "no marketing". However, I do not want to contest anyone's point of view.

I asked a incredibly well-known and ultra-successful direct marketer to view this thread and provide me some feedback.

He agreed with me about somewhere along the lines some marketing took place...indirect as it may seem.

For instance, why did you choose that "one gas station" as opposed to another gas station.

You needed gas of course, but...why did you decide that the gas station you saw was suitable to fill you need at that particular time?

In any event, I have learned something of value and that is more importamnt to me tha being dead-right. I gues it is like Jim Straw says...knowone is right, knowone is wrong.

Respectfully,

Taylor Trump

> I read this definition before, however I
> don't recall whether it was Dan Kennedy,
> Kiyosaki or Gerber.

> Sales occur when PEOPLE sell!

> Marketing occurs when the SYSTEM sells!

> Does anybody recall who said this?

> Duane

I agree wholeheartedly with you. I think marketing took place somewhere at soemtime. It may have been indirect but with no marketing at all I thiink you stand the same chance of just building a website and doing absolutley nothing else.

You won't sell many widgets that way.

Taylor

> Without getting into a debate of semantics,
> look at what Mike typed below, where he
> stated that no marketing took place:
> -------------------------
> -------------------------
> In this example, Mike's marketing was done
> when he sold and serviced JL. He marketed
> himself adequately enough to JL, that JL in
> turn did the selling to the new client. Mike
> simply took the order, which is far
> different than selling.
> As Mike states, everyone has their own take
> on things, and it pretty much boils down to
> calling things what you choose.
> The way my belief system is set up, however
> is that a sale can not take place unless
> some form of marketing prompted that.
> Marketing can be doing right by your client
> and generating word of mouth orders as a
> result. Marketing can be a big 7-Eleven sign
> positioned at roadside. Marketing can be
> wearing your best suit to help you sell
> yourself to a prospective employer. I
> suppose it boils down to one's own
> definitions of these terms.
> Just my 2 cents.

All of this proves is what an imprecise tool language can be.

The fact that sales and marketing are so easily confused and regarded as interchangeable explains why so many companies lump both disciplines together under a 'Sales and Marketing Director'.

Yet they are different. (And this is, I guess, just another opinion!)

Let's look at some of the cut and dried examples given.

The kid who asks if he can cut the grass is marketing himself. The moment that you say yes, he has made a sale.

The 7/11 that you drive past was passively marketing itself with a neon sign that told you it was open. Without that knowledge, you would not have sold yourself on going in the door.

The water filter that you bought way back was marketed with advertising in press and probably TV. All kinds of marketing messages filtered (ouch!) into your brain before you chose that brand and model. This particular product happens to come with a renewable income stream for the manufacturers - the cartridges. Sure, the cartridges on their own need little direct marketing, but that is because the means of using them has had tons.

The same arguement can be applied to printer cartridges or fax paper or fountain pen ink. All supposedly non-marketed items whose continued sales rely on the highly active marketing of a master product.

Ultimately, my definition of sales versus marketing is that marketing is everything that is done to create a need, and sales is the act of fulfilling it.

I am sure there are a million alternatives, though.

Martin.


BizE-zine: Success strategies that really work.

Someone explained it very simply to me years ago

Marketing is finding 'em.

Sales is what you do with 'em when you've found 'em

Made sense to me!

Philip

> He agreed with me about somewhere along the
> lines some marketing took place...indirect
> as it may seem.

> For instance, why did you choose that
> "one gas station" as opposed to
> another gas station.

> You needed gas of course, but...why did you
> decide that the gas station you saw was
> suitable to fill you need at that particular
> time?

I choose the gas station with the cheapest gas. Sometimes, in my area, gas can be 10 cents a litre different in price. The 'brand' of gas has nothing to do with it.

Then, of course, there comes times when I'm REAL low. Then it's whichever is closest. And late at night it's whichever I see open.

Michael Ross.

> When I bought my water filter the
> instructions mentioned how much water could
> be filtered before a fresh cartridge was
> needed.

> So every month I now buy a new water filter
> cartridge to replace the old one.

> Whenever my car is low on gas I pull in and
> fill 'er up.

> Whether the supermarket runs ads or not, I
> go in and buy food.

> When my shoes wear out I buy another pair.

> If I want to stay connected to the internet
> I pay my IPS monthly access bill.

> Today my radiator sprang a small leak. I
> went to the autoparts store and asked if
> there was a stop-leak product for radiators.
> There was. I bought it.

> The food I buy for my animals is the food
> they like - yes I've tried them all.

> Whenever I need my hair cut I go get it cut.

> Plenty of sales without marketing.

> Michael Ross.

Michael,

It was marketing that brought the automobile to market and made it a 'must-have' item. And now you need to purchase the products that support the original purchase.

It was marketing that caused you to purchase a water filtration system that needs its filters changed.

It was the location choice (derived from marketing) that caused your grocery store chain to choose the location they did...which you frequent with or without ads.

Your barber used marketing to select a location and the ability to cut your hair the way you like it is a form of sale's training, which again is a subset of marketing. You get your hair cut due to marketing pressures...you marketing yourself to others and the overall "maket" dictating how long your hair should be.

Granted you may not "see" what is normally considered a marketing action such as advertising, direct mail and such to cause you to purchase a product but be assured that marketing has already left its foot-print in the process via location selection, display or any of these other things that are subsets of marketing.

Take care,

Mike Winicki

> The water filter that you bought way back
> was marketed with advertising in press and
> probably TV. All kinds of marketing messages
> filtered (ouch!) into your brain before you
> chose that brand and model. This particular
> product happens to come with a renewable
> income stream for the manufacturers - the
> cartridges. Sure, the cartridges on their
> own need little direct marketing, but that
> is because the means of using them has had
> tons.

The reason I bought the water filter was because I have no bench space for a water dispenser and I got sick and tired of buying bottle after bottle.

So the only way I know of to drink water without buying bottle after bottle was to filter my tap water - I am allergic to the substances that are put in our tap water. The supermarket has one brand only - a brand I had NEVER heard of before. So I bought it.

> Ultimately, my definition of sales versus
> marketing is that marketing is everything
> that is done to create a need, and sales is
> the act of fulfilling it.

> I am sure there are a million alternatives,
> though.

Yep. I depends on how semantic you want to get. :o)

It certainly is an interesting thread.

For instance, how much did marketing to our parents come into play? By going shopping with mum I learn which stores carry which foods. SO even if that store never markets to me, I still know what they stock because I went shopping with mum as a youngster.

Michael Ross

For sure, everything we have available to us is a result of marketing.

The thing is, how semantic do we go... how far back do we go to answer the question?

MY understanding of Taylor's question, and the angle from which I gave my answer, was how did it relate to ME directly and immediately. Was I marketed to or not.

The fact we know a certain store carries certain products is a result of marketing. Maybe not to us, but at least to our parents who passed that knowledge on.

However I learned that autopart stores carry things for cars, doesn't matter. I just knew they did and when I needed something for the car, that's where I went.

Did I know there were things which could be added to the radiator to stop leaks? No. Did I know the autoparts store carried such items? No, but I figured they were my best bet if such a product existed.

Personally I have never been marketed to by any stop-radiator-leaks company. And yet I just bought such a product.

As far as the company who sells those treatments goes, they have received a sale from someone they never marketed to.

Standing back, though, we do see that I was marketed to, or my parents where marketed to, in some way so I knew where the best place to look for a certain type of product was.

Michael Ross.