If I showed you a way to make a dollar, would you give me back a quarter?

Originally Posted by -TW

I am so glad to hear you say that.

I always rant about how limited the web + internet are when it comes to marketing. No one ever believes me... even when I back up my talk with facts that cannot be discounted.

People think the web is the be all + end all of marketing, when in fact, it has crippling limitations that make it PALE in comparison to offline methods!

The quicker people fall OUT of love with the web (as a way to market things), the quicker they will be on a path to REAL riches.

Cheers!

-- TW

TW,

What an interesting perception. I find when people speak of facts, on how and where you should do business, most have either never had an online business or tried and failed and believe their experience proves that you are better off not wasting your time trying or trying again.

I say hogwash to the notion that you can't make real riches on the Internet. The problem with facts is that they never seem to take the human factor into consideration and eventually become disproved.

People do not buy based on facts. They buy based on what they want, what they perceive they need, and whether the price is cheaper online as compared to offline, how fast they can find it and get it.

Remember,

It was a fact that a dos based program, on an IBM computer, with a Graphic User Interface, would never sell.

It was a fact that the Internet was just a fad.

If was a fact that the average person would never purchase anything over the Internet, because they couldn't touch it.

I have found for myself, that selling geniune ideas and products that work, over the Internet, has generated, not just money, but a steady income for my family since 1994 and my income continues to grow as do the items I sell.

For example, the home study course I wrote and sell soley on the Internet, is a money maker for me and has found worldwide interest and acceptance from many of my clients. My server logs have shown a 400% increase in visits to my site, since this time last year as well as my paypal activity.

I couldn't market and get that type of worldwide attention offline. If I tried the marketing costs offline would be astronomical.

Now back in the early 1990's, I tried to sell other peoples info products, widgets and so on and I'd have to agree with you, it is limited.

However, the minute I started creating my own products to sell, or buying chattel to sell, then the money started coming in. The Internet for me, has given me a larger customer base, since I started my first business many years ago.

But the key to selling on the Internet? Sell your own stuff, or be in complete control of a product, so that you can dominate your market. That's not from some Internet guru's book. That's from my own experience.

Also marketing, on the Internet is not as stressful or limited as offline marketing. I know this because I own 2 offline businesses and that marketing is more restrictive and managing it at times can literally exhaust you.

For example, if I run an ad in the yellow pages, then that one ad will stay the same for an entire year and there is no options to make changes, until the following year. So if my phone number is wrong, it will be wrong for an entire year. On the Internet, I can make changes to my advertising, so I can keep it fresh and accurate.

Being an owner of 2 offline businesses and 1 online business I would have to say that marketing is valuable, but what you do in one arena usually cannot be done in another with the same results.

Both offline and online have their place and their marketing methods will be diverse, but both ventures can fail if I am not willing to market them.

The Internet is a great place to do business and have a business.

From the Trouse
Woody Quiñones
ImpactYourArea.com

Originally Posted by ImpactYourArea.com

I say hogwash to the notion that you can't make real riches on the Internet.

I never said that.

I said, if you run both online + offline marketing methods to their fullest extent, the offline methods almost always will 'win.'

Of course it's possible to make zillions online. It's done all the time.

But when you look behind the curtain of those who make mega-zillions, it's almost always through offline methods (mostly).

Imo, the main reason for this is: The net/web is great at 'snaging' all who are actively looking for something. Problem is, that portion of any given market is (usually) only a tiny % of the overall market. Imo, the first step in truly effective marketing is to GATHER a list of potential customers -- whether the people on that list WANT to be 'gathered,' or not.

To put it another way, 'permission' marketing is the kiss of death.

The web caters to the consumer's IDEA(L): 'Back off marketers! -- If I want something, I'll go out and find it (for myself).' The web has set it up so that one cannot contact someone without advance permission, as well as eliminating most 'intrusive' marketing, like pop-ups, etc.

Great for privacy -- terrible for marketing.

What most people do not realize is (all else being equal), the INITIAL 'spark' that leads to the vast majority of transactions, eminates FROM the marketER *TO* the marketEE. For the most part, the web does not allow that to happen.

On the web marketEEs can search for marketERs all day long. The reverse is generally not true. Thus the crippling limitation(s).

A capitalist society DEPENDS upon intrusive marketing (and I can prove it).

That is why offline methods are better. They can be intrusive -- and therefore more effective.

Cheers!

-- TW

PS: I find it somewhat amusing that you are defending online marketing, but are pushing an offline method (mugs). ;-)

Originally Posted by -TW

I find it somewhat amusing that you are defending online marketing, but are pushing an offline method (mugs). ;-)

So TW,

It looks like a created a paradox.

I'm glad I made you laugh. It's good to laugh.

Clearly understand, I will defend ALL MARKETING, whether online or off.

After 15 years of having an online business and 2 offline businesses, I have learned that, offline marketing is not better than online marketing, and neither is one more effective than the other. That's not my opinion, it's just been my experience.

But if we're talking cost, online advertising is cheaper than offline.

From the Trouse
Woody Quiñones
ImpactYourArea.com

Originally Posted by ImpactYourArea.com

But if we're talking cost, online advertising is cheaper than offline.


ImpactYourArea.com

What do you mean by 'cheaper?'

Are you talking (raw) cost... or value(ROI)?

If you're talking cost, then yes.

Vaulue? No, web mrktng is not 'cheaper.'

Here's a question I ask small biz owners sometimes...

"Which is a better form of marketing:

1) A free or almost free method that produces a profit of $30,000

or

2) A method that costs $50,000 and produces a profit of $900,000?

Hint: the answer is NOT "depends if you have the $50,000 in the first place."

John Reese is an online marketing guru. His most famous product is "Traffic Secrets." He is a BRILLIANT marketer. The product launch for "Traffic Secrets" of LEGENDARY. He did all the marketing ONline. He covered ***ALL*** the bases in terms of ONline mrktng! The product is something that almost ANYONE with a website could benefit from (and that's EVERYone!).

When the 'big' launch day came (and remember he did everything RIGHT + BRILLIANTLY) -- he sold..............

1,000 copies.

Yes, it was $1,000,000 (gross) in one day.

It was considered a legendary success!

Now... bring those figures to anyone at, say, Gunthy-Renker, and they will laugh their heads off!

1,000 orders is the same (statistically) as NO ORDERS AT ALL!

It is chump change.

Cheers!

-- TW

PS: your mugs are a great way of marketing precisely BECAUSE they are an INTRUSIVE form of mrtkng. And.... for every ONE customer you get via ONline methods, I can show you 10,000 truly QUALIFIED potential customers who you will NEVER be able to reach via ONline methods. Why? Because your online methods are not REACHING anyone, in essence. The net/web is not set up to allow you to REACH potential customers. And who reaches whom is the most improtant part of marketing.

[Ankesh]

Originally Posted by -TW

John Reese is an online marketing guru. His most famous product is "Traffic Secrets." He is a BRILLIANT marketer. The product launch for "Traffic Secrets" of LEGENDARY. He did all the marketing ONline. He covered ***ALL*** the bases in terms of ONline mrktng! The product is something that almost ANYONE with a website could benefit from (and that's EVERYone!).

When the 'big' launch day came (and remember he did everything RIGHT + BRILLIANTLY) -- he sold..............

1,000 copies.

Yes, it was $1,000,000 (gross) in one day.

It was considered a legendary success!

Now... bring those figures to anyone at, say, Gunthy-Renker, and they will laugh their heads off!

1,000 orders is the same (statistically) as NO ORDERS AT ALL!

It is chump change.

Cheers!

-- TW

That just made me laugh. 1,000 sales maybe chump change for Guthy Renker when the product price is $50. Not when the product sells for $1000.

I'm not sure about this - but for statistical analysis - all they need is 40 orders. 1000 orders is definately not insignificant.

Lets make a somewhat relative comparison...

When Gary Halbert sold his big ticket stock exchange product (which I think cost about $900) using offline direct mail - it took him 2 months or so to generate the same number of sales!

And his gross profit was way lower than John Reese's.

No, I meant $1,000,000 in sales is chump change.

In the real world (if anyone still remembers that), a $5 mil company is considered tiny-tiny.

What is Gunthy-Renker? A 10-20 mil company? I don't know.

Compare their OFFline ROI with their ONline ROI -- I bet there is NO comparison.

As I've said before, the 12-month millionaire made 77 million in 2 years, and (because?) he had the good sense to avoid online marketing altogether!

How? Mainly by plowing through 40,000 names per month, every month -- direct mail.

He stated his case TO the audience *HE* selected -- whether they WANTED to have his case stated to them... or not.

Intrusive marketing.

Not possible and/or illegal online.

I must mention this caveat though...

Online works great in the JV department.

Other than that aspect (JVing), online marketing can safely be ignored + dismissed, imo.

UNLESS (as you know I've said before) you HAPPEN to be in a biz where if-you-need-it-you-need-it-and-if-you-don't-you-don't. Like a plumber or lawyer or tow truck. THEN the web is great -- because 100% of your potential market *IS* actively searching for you.

Cheers!

-- TW

PS: I just advise that one keep one's PERSPECTIVE level-headed about what the web can and CANNOT do, in terms of marketing. Everyone tends to put it at the TOP of the list, when more often than not, it should really be at the BOTTOM of the list.

The only reason (imo) most people are afraid of doing offline mrktng is... the risk.

That is, if you KNEW you'd get 2-3 dollars profit for every 1 dollar you invested, how many dollars would you invest? As many as possible, right?

How often would you do it? All day long, every day, right?

In other words, when the risk is removed, money (+ SPENDING it) no longer is an issue.

Yes, offline mrktng COSTS $$$.

But the ROI can still be waaaay better than online methods.

To remove a lot of the risk, do a lot of testing (first).

At this very moment, mind boggling amounts of $$$$$$$$ are being spent on OFFline marketing.

How can this be?

How could SPENDING money actually bring in MORE money than NOT spending money???

Because the ROI turns out to much more appealing than ONline methods will bring (alone). That is, after enough testing has been done to 'perfect' the "MARKETING MACHINE" first.

Thus eliminating a lot of the risk.

Imo, really good markting machines tend to realize that online methods are limited and can only represent smaller 'cogs' in that overall machine.

Even when you look at ONLINE businesses, most of the biggies use OFFline methods to promote their sites. WHY? Becuase they HAVE to! The ROI is just too attractive. They MUST take their marketing to the HIGHEST LEVEL possible...... by using OFFline methods!

Same applies to most businesses -- even (especially?) small businesses!!

Cheers!

-- TW

Talking about that Traffic Sectrets product launch... question is: How much did he spend on marketing to gross that $1 mil?

Was his ONline marketing blitz "free?"

No, actually.

He ended up SPENDING (probably) $500,000 for his marketing!

The difference is -- the risk.

He only had to pay that amount -- in the form of affiliate $$ -- AFTER the sales were ASSURED!

No risk.

It's not FREE mrktng.

It's low/no RISK mrktng.

The difference between the money spent on online mrktng vs. the $$ spent on OFFline mrktng isn't the MONEY -- it's the RISK.

And, as with most things, the HIGHER the risk, the HIGHER the payoff.

OFFline mrktng DOES mean greater risk -- but it also means (usually) greater retrun too. Much greater, in many cases. Thus making OFFline mrktng more effective and more valuable -- and capable of much greater returns than ONline markting (all else being equal).

Cheers!

-- TW

[Ankesh]

Hi Joe

I hope you take some unsolicited advice in good spirits...

Not to burst your bubble... but your basic strategy is not right and so my guess is you won't make a killing even if you promote offline.

Why? Because - You're trying to sell every thing to everybody. Self help books, law books, marketing books and business softwares. But the strategy you are using is good for selling only one kind of product. There is no underlying current or idea that matches your four niches together.

What you have to do is either focus on just one category. Or else create a USP that connects all 4 categories (and make a "mega-category").

I don't want to overstep out here and take advantage of your good spirits by giving you more unsolicited advice. But my experience tells that your strategy is not set right and didn't want you to waste a lot of money by testing offline promotion... and thats why I posted.

If you want more help or clarification, ask away.