What are "toll positions"? (A refresher post!)

Dien, would Harvey Brody still recommend using the Thomas Register of American Manufacturers as a lead source for finding & acquiring injection molds as a toll position?

If yes, what specific type of injection mold would Harvey definitely recommend looking for with hidden stored value? Perhaps it would appear obsolete & totally worthless in todays market, but if modified or tweaked it would be a very profitable toll position?

Would either you or Harvey consider giving the steps & procedures step-by-step which should be taken & followed after the injection molds toll position potential has been analyzed or evaluated by either you, Harvey &/or?

Originally Posted by GordonJ

OK, last week he was in LA, then headed to Miami. My opinion is he's working harder now than he ever has. But, if that is your preferred model, have fun.

Same with 68 year old Don Alm hitting the streets like he did at 35.

Whatever glove fits.

Gordon

PS You think Kennedy would be a more likely scenario??? You don't think he is gifted? ANYONE can find products, FEW can do what Dan does.

Great points as usual Gordon!

Maybe this is where the concept of the "toll booth" becomes a little fragmented.

What I mean by that is maybe we need to consider if it's a toll booth that can command .05 and one that can command $5?

Meaning that some business models are going to be more lucrative with far less work involved than others, but that doesn't mean a toll position that makes a net profit of $20,000 a year and requires a half-dozen hours of work per week is a worthless toll booth. For many folks they would be all over that.

Personally I think the "I'm the expert toll position" is in many cases more easily achieved and is easier to maintain long-term than the "find a product" toll position. In this day and age the ability to knock-off a product is beyond epidemic... which makes the lifespan of products (and a product toll position) shorter and shorter.

And while Dan is both prolific in his ability to churn out content and disciplined about doing it... keep in mind that much of his new content is simply regurgitated from earlier content and he's very good at commenting on someone else's content. I don't fault him for that, it's how I would do it. That doesn't make him gifted. If makes him sharp for knowing what he can get away with while doing as little as possible in the way of brand spanking new content creation.

I've got a toll position product that does reasonable well for me. But it sure wasn't easy nor inexpensive getting it started. In addition you many times need additional funds to achieve market acceptance.

Yeah, you can go the wholesale route but that arena is filled with tiny margins and demanding retailers.

As far as what Don does, once you get an advertising product off the ground, and if it makes sense in the market, reselling existing clients/customers on the idea will become easier over time. Again, is this a $5 toll? No. But for many who would like a toll position and neither have the funds to develop their own products nor the time to become a "I'm the authority" toll position holder, the Don Alm approach is better than a sharp stick to they eye-socket.

Thank you Gordon, when I spoke with Harvey we were talking about fiat money & the trillions of US Debt created by Government. The point is the housing market value is illusionary because the dollar is worthless inflating the price of housing &/or real estate market.

Yes, Harvey is very astute on everything business & money related.

Originally Posted by ascendedmind

Dien, would Harvey Brody still recommend using the Thomas Register of American Manufacturers as a lead source for finding & acquiring injection molds as a toll position?

If yes, what specific type of injection mold would Harvey definitely recommend looking for with hidden stored value? Perhaps it would appear obsolete & totally worthless in todays market, but if modified or tweaked it would be a very profitable toll position?

Would either you or Harvey consider giving the steps & procedures step-by-step which should be taken & followed after the injection molds toll position potential has been analyzed or evaluated by either you, Harvey &/or?

Boy, I'm definitely not a expert when it comes to injection molds and the whole premise of acquiring obsolete equipment but the way that whole industry moved off shore I would certainly do a lot of research into it. I have to think the initial costs would be large and with the ability of foreign entities to be able to "knock-off" products... it strikes me as being extremely risky.

I have buddies in the model railroad hobby business and they have shared some of the ins and out of creating products with injection molds and how it's still far less expensive to source from overseas.

What kind of "digital" toll positions (besides domain names) would he consider building or controlling in coming years?

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki

At this point Dan does one thing to keep his business afloat and that's create some content on a monthly basis. It may not be the equivalent of designing a widget and then let someone else handle the distribution and sales of the widget once it's been tested and proven, but it's probably the next best thing. And it's probably a more likely scenario for many to cross into rather than being able or gifted enough to find or create a product that is both evergreen and can be managed by someone other than the toll position holder.

Originally Posted by GordonJ

PS You think Kennedy would be a more likely scenario??? You don't think he is gifted? ANYONE can find products, FEW can do what Dan does.

Most of info products are not really toll positions. You don't have to buy any of Dan's product to learn about writing successful sales letters or how to create "attention-grabbing" headlines. However, if you want to buy HIS product, he will get a cut (unless it's through a secondary market).

On the other hand, creating a platform where you sell other people's products or perhaps getting exclusive rights to their product(s) would be a toll position.

PS. I really like this thread. Thank you for bringing this subject up.

[Dien Rice]

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki

Personally I think the "I'm the expert toll position" is in many cases more easily achieved and is easier to maintain long-term than the "find a product" toll position.

Thanks Mike... it's true, being the "expert" is also a type of toll position. That's why some consultants can get very highly paid... People feel that those consultants have expertise they need, and which they can't get from a cheaper consultant!

A quick example is Denny Hatch. He's an expert in direct response marketing, including copywriting. He took down his web page with his consulting fees, but you can still see the old version from 2013... At that time, he charged $700 per hour, or $5,000 per day, to consult with you about your business and marketing.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130530...tons/fees.html

He can charge $5,000 a day - and get it - because he has a strong "expertise" toll position...

Of course, there are many others who get even more... and they can get it due to their strong toll position as an expert...

In this day and age the ability to knock-off a product is beyond epidemic... which makes the lifespan of products (and a product toll position) shorter and shorter.

I think it depends on your protection. For example, it's extremely easy to "knock off" Mickey Mouse, and print Mickey Mouse T-shirts for example. However, you don't see too many of them around - at least in "Western" countries. The reason why is because Disney will legally defend their "toll position" and quickly put these knock-off artists out of business, and make sure they are heavily fined.

However, you need to have the toll position in the first place in order to do this!

In countries where protection for copyrights and trademarks is weak, it's a different story... But that doesn't mean you can't still make a lot of money, for long periods of time, in the many countries (including the USA) where the "rule of law" is strong...

Thanks Mike!

- Dien

[Dien Rice]

Originally Posted by Thomas

Most of info products are not really toll positions. You don't have to buy any of Dan's product to learn about writing successful sales letters or how to create "attention-grabbing" headlines. However, if you want to buy HIS product, he will get a cut (unless it's through a secondary market).

On the other hand, creating a platform where you sell other people's products or perhaps getting exclusive rights to their product(s) would be a toll position.

PS. I really like this thread. Thank you for bringing this subject up.

I agree that it does depend on how unique, as well as how desirable, the information is... Perhaps also how strong the "brand" is...

For example, "How To Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie was first published in 1936 - which was 79 years ago... And I believe it's still making money today! (The copyright now seems to be held by Donna Dale Carnegie, who is Dale Carnegie's daughter. She wasn't even born yet when the book was written!)

But on the other hand, there are plenty of books published in 1936 that nobody cares about today... Not every toll position is equal!

One thing about some good toll positions is that - if they know how to work them - the toll positions can keep making money for your kids, and even possibly your grandkids...

Best wishes,

Dien

Originally Posted by Thomas

Most of info products are not really toll positions. You don't have to buy any of Dan's product to learn about writing successful sales letters or how to create "attention-grabbing" headlines. However, if you want to buy HIS product, he will get a cut (unless it's through a secondary market).

On the other hand, creating a platform where you sell other people's products or perhaps getting exclusive rights to their product(s) would be a toll position.

PS. I really like this thread. Thank you for bringing this subject up.

Good input Thomas.

Keep in mind a couple things about the info products Dan puts out...

First off he's joked that he wishes that "Ultimate Sales Letter" and "Ultimate Marketing Plan" would go away!

Why?

Because they've "How to's" and not "advocacy" books which represent virtually every other book he's written.

The selling of info products is not DK's prime focus.

His prime focus is to get the $19,000.00 initial consulting fee and then put the wheels in motion for at least a $100,000 copywriting/consulting gig– which many times includes royalties.

For a full understanding of the Dan Kennedy "process" I would suggest his "Influential Writing" workshop that he put on in 2007... I think you would find it to be a real eye-opener!

Keep in mind Dan has talked about "toll position" (and Brody's course) during a couple of his seminars. And he purchased the rights to Dr. Maxwell Maltz's information, which is one way of getting a "toll position"– buy an existing toll position!

Originally Posted by Dien Rice

I think it depends on your protection. For example, it's extremely easy to "knock off" Mickey Mouse, and print Mickey Mouse T-shirts for example. However, you don't see too many of them around - at least in "Western" countries. The reason why is because Disney will legally defend their "toll position" and quickly put these knock-off artists out of business, and make sure they are heavily fined.

However, you need to have the toll position in the first place in order to do this!

In countries where protection for copyrights and trademarks is weak, it's a different story... But that doesn't mean you can't still make a lot of money, for long periods of time, in the many countries (including the USA) where the "rule of law" is strong...

Thanks Mike!

- Dien

No question Dien copyright infringement laws (and others) are a great deterrent.

But first you need to have that "toll position" product in order to have something to protect.

Which brings me back to my whole point in all this... I think creating or finding or building a "toll position" is a difficult thing to pull off.