With all this Obama talk -- I found this cool site...

I just bought KeepCapitalismAlive.com

Gordon,

In this particular discussion, I feel like I have an advantage over you and probably everybody else on this board ... I spent 16 years as a government employee in Dade County (Miami), Florida.

I drove a bus. Then I was a transit instructor. I saw my little section of government do an incredible number of astonishingly stupid things, because money was never an issue.

Less than 15% of transit revenue came from fares. The rest came from local, state, and federal taxes. That money was taken away from the people who produced it and given to morons who produced a much bigger transit system at much bigger taxpayer expense ... and which produced even less income in the farebox.

I misspoke. I said money was never an issue. Actually, most top-level transit agency employees spent most of their work hours figuring out how to get more money. No, not thru the farebox, silly. More TAX dollars. Their mission was to squeeze more out of the residents of Casper, Wyoming and Worcester, Massachusetts, so they could expand the unused transit system in Miami, Florida.

Boondoggle. Let's move on.

George Bush was an idiot.

Barack Obama is just Little George.

When you take money from producers and give it to non-producers, you get non-production. I 100% guarantee you that Obama's "stimulus package" will stimulate a huge spurt of non-production.

But you asked for an idea, not a rant. At first I was hopeless, but I kept thinking about that over the weekend. And I have a long-term solution.

Beginning in 7th grade, and every 2 years after that, for as long as a child is in school, they would read and report on the book Economics in One Lesson, by Henry Hazlitt.

A 5th-grader would understand Hazlitt's book. It was published the year before I was born (1946), so it's old as hello. But it's also timeless. You can read reviews at Amazon.

It is a life-changer. If every kid grew up understanding how economics really works, our world and our future would change.

That is my solution.

Richard Dennis

How does the govt needing more $$$ differ from someone coming over and sticking a gun in your ribs and robbing you?

The govt has no 'fear of God.'

If they 'need' more money, they merely go out and confiscate it (or print it).

Representation? No, not really. The (so-called "OUR") 'reps' were not even allowed to catch their breath enough to READ the most recent confiscatory 'legislation,' ie: the "stimulus" bill.

To my way of thinking, that's $800+ BILLION of *NON-representative* taxation.

The govt opened its checkbook -- which is opening MY checkbook... HOW?

By sticking a gun in my (and your) ribs -- that's how.

It's as simple (and as sickening) as that.

-- TW

1) Contact as many Congressmen (your Represenatatives)....yours and others, including the Prez....tell them to ELIMINATE the CAPITAL GAINS TAX FOR ONE YEAR!

That will give people "HOPE" that there might be a chance for our economy to be saved. The "Investors" in our country might see that the Obama Administration is NOT trying to Penalize the "Producers" of our country and, the Stock Market might start going back UP!

Just start contacting Congressmen BEGGING them to eliminate the Capital Gains Tax for 12 months....as a "Show of Faith" in our Capitalist System.

If the "Free-Falling" market were to start going up...confidence would begin to come back. NO Cap Gains Tax has been PROVEN to be an economic Stimulus.

Throwing money at big corps is just throwing money away. Our country has thrown trillions at our Education System and Poverty...and our schools continue to go down....and there are still jillions in poverty.

Throwing money has never succeeded.

2) While you're contacting these "Representatives" of us...tell them also to GET RID OF THE 9,000 "EARMARKS" IN THE SO-CALLED, "STIMULUS BILL"!

THESE ARE TOTAL "PORK" AND DO NOTHING FOR THE ECONOMY....however, they DO help the Politicians get re-elected....so....the chance of those getting knocked out is slim and none.

Don Alm

We need to DEMAND that they eliminate additions of any type to any billl not DIRECTLY RELATED to the bill in question. This would eliminate the pork barrel thing, simplify the bills thus making passage or not faster, and ease the gobbledegook and thus storage needs of the government. SIMPLIFY to be maximally effective.

It's long past time we brought government, Congress, et al into the 21st century and got rid of out-moded methods that produced the mess we're in now. If a pork is important, it should be voted on SEPARATELY in it's own mini-bill...otherwise it doesn't belong before Congress. No combination bills to confuse the issue and force excessive, and often detrimental to our interests, compromises.

Instead of endless bantering about on a bill (including pork bills which, hopefully, will mostly disappear) there should be ONE presenter of the Pro side, one presenter for the con side, and then Congress should vote aye or nay and get the job done.

Sandi Bowman

Before each vote, all members of congress should be made to swear under oath that they HAVE (indeed) actuallty READ the bill they are voting on.

-- TW

[Ankesh]

Within 4 years - all of America is going to live in caves. No?

Then whats the worst case scenario that is likely to happen?

I've still not managed to get a coherent answer about that from all the ranters. What is the worst you think is going to happen?

The tax may go up. Yes - but as I recall - John D. Rockefeller had once paid 79% tax too. So thats not something new for USA.

The $ may devalue and traveling may become expensive. Yes.

But what worse than that do you see happening?

Unemployment? What can you do to remain employed?
Recession? Even in recessions - people have become millionaires. What can you do to make more money even in a recession?

Illegal immigrant problem. They cost 333 billion $ to USA ever year. But how much value do they create? And what can you do to increase the value they create - without shooting them all? (Don't tell me none of them work and all of them are simply moochers. In fact, economists* say that by under-charging -- they create more value. If some one is willing to pay $10 for a product and an illegal immigrant does it for $6 - thats $4 of more value gained by the payer.)

* I've never understood economics perfectly - so don't hold that against me. But do check out an economics book to get a more "comprehensive" view on things. (I recommend Undercover Economist that I just started reading - even though I don't agree to everything it says.)

And as Michael says - take responsibility for yourself.

Learn how to manage money and take care of your own health. Don't rely on your government to do that for you.

Is $10,000 more for you this year enough to take care of all the tax hikes etc? If so - think HOW you can make that extra $10,000.

Don't pick the government as your excuse. Learn how to prosper even when times are bad. The rules aren't that different. That is what a true entrepreneur does. Creates value for the world while making himself richer. Anyone can earn money in a good market. But can you in a bad market?

What is the worst that could happen?

Recession is the LEAST of the worries, Ankesh.

In fact, the recession doesn't really worry me much at all.

That is not what makes Obama a 'threat' to America, imo.

The worst that could happen is, the govt gets so powerful, the situation becomes *irreversible*.

THAT is the fear. -- and the fear is not unfounded, imo.

Freedom is a shaky thing -- it is NOT a given. And, like I said, the promise of "America" is not just freedom from other govt's -- it's also freedom from our OWN govt. THAT is what's becoming increasingly at stake here. If you don't live here, maybe you don't understand the feeling that's building up here (it's not just me). You have to be alert to the 'signals' -- the (sometimes subtle) warning signs that something's fishy. Imo, more and more, this Obama guy is NOT passing the smell test.

Sorry.

It's not the economy, so much as it is the apparent philosophical mindset of our new president. It belies a basic misunderstanding of the *idea* behind what America is -- at its core.

-- TW

First a correction: the total is 338.3 billion per year illegal immigrants are costing us. Was a typo on my part...sorry.

This is OUR government at work...supporting those who break our laws and become, in effect, criminals by simply being here illegally. Want to know how they really repay us for our generosity? Take a look at these stats:

We spend $3,000,000.00 (that's three million of your tax dollars) a DAY to incarcerate illegal aliens. They comprise 30% of the prison population. Illegal aliens have a crime rate that is two and a half times that of legals in this country.

$200 BILLION dollars a year in suppressed wages for Americans are caused by the presence of illegal aliens. How far would that go to easing the current crisis, folks?

Ask yourself if we should have to support these criminals who don't belong here...and why in 'ell are we??? There's no way they can repay our investment with their 'willingness to work'. That argument went out the door years ago. Ask some of our legal citizens who are desperate for jobs...any jobs...if they're 'willing to work'...you'll get a resounding YES! Let's invest in Americans...not illegals regardless of where they came from. If they'd break one law to get here, more laws to stay here, more laws to work here, and many other laws while they're here, what makes anyone think that they'll magically turn out to be 'good citizens' and 'good for this country'? They're criminals...plain and simple. I can sympathize with their plight to some extent (I'm not heartless) but when it's them or us...I choose us.

Sandi Bowman

[Ankesh]

I just wish more Americans would read Grapes of Wrath by John Steinback.

Nothing more to add on the topic because I'm an outsider.