Robert Allen Apparently In Serious Condition

(Please read other post, first.)

> Being an info junkie myself, (Ask Gordon.
> He's seen my bookshelves. (g) ), I'd be more
> than happy to hear about other players
> offering better products at cheaper prices.
> I'm serious. I know who most (if not all) of
> the RE info marketers are but I would be
> interested to see which ones you know about
> in case I missed some. For one, I think Pete
> Egeler has an interesting idea with FSBOs
> and I'd like to learn more about it.

Haven't been exposed to P. Egeler.

> I disagree with you on this one. While
> LeGrand does get plenty of newbies into his
> (edited)
> Is someone taken advantage of if they buy
> the material, put it to work, and profit
> from it? Not IMO.

I don't think this is the test. Because you can find somebody who will learn something from a blank piece of paper, and still go out and make money due to dumb luck, natural aptitude, chance, hard work, whatever. The test needs to be: How does the info. work AND how does it stack up compared to the rest of what is on the market.

> On a different note, I took a look at your
> RE site. I liked what I saw. Just out of
> curiosity, if you wouldn't mind telling me,
> which RE "guru" (so to speak)
> was/is your mentor?

I've done a lot of study, since we last talked about this. My internet company puts food on the table and only requires a couple of hours a day to make a full time living, so I have a lot of time to spend goofing off. I joined the local RE Investment club, became great friends with the top RE Attorney in Texas (we have lunch now, once a week), and have picked up two mentors-- one, a man who own 30 houses and started about four years ago, and the other a woman who owns about 14 houses. I've also been devouring most of the more popular info. courses and have been running newspaper and radio ads. Last month I talked with a ton of motivated sellers, and I've been fortunate to have made the contacts I have, because even though I could have bought probably 5 or 6 houses no money down last month, I don't feel they were actual "deals." Surprise, surprise.

I have most of Legrand's stuff... and to tell you the truth, there is a lot of good stuff in there. Much more than Rob. Allen's. But there is also a lot of dangerous stuff.

One thing that bothers me about Legrand in particular, is that he (when last I checked) still sells his course on buying using Lease Options. But according to several people who are affiliates of his old company, SDI, he no longer advocates buying on L/O. He recommends that you DON'T do it.

So, if he's still selling (to the best of my knowledge) courses on how to buy with L/O strike... isn't this dangerous, and possibly unethical?

I've also reviewed the course by Randi and Charlie Frances... one of Legrand's top students. Their course is expensive, but very complete for the beginner. However, if you took this course alone and used their strategy in the market here in Austin, you'd get creme-ed. I'm sorry, but the no equity deals they preach that you should do will get you slaughtered when the market drops and you can't unload it, drop rents, or have enough positive to cover vacancy and maintenence.

I've read one of Joe Kaiser's courses... awesome stuff. A real straight shooter.

There is a book called 5 Magic Paths to Real Estate by a guy named Lumbley, if I remember... which is pretty good.

Some of Bronchick's stuff is good... but not AS GOOD as everyone hypes it up to be.

Conti & Finkle's books sounded great... until I learned how it really works in the real world. Met Conti at our local club and he seemed like a conman. Wouldn't answer ANY questions at the end of his lecture/pitch to sell his stuff at the back of the room.

Tim Randle is coming out with a course that I've been able to preview, and his stuff is dead on. Watch for it... It will save you a lot of money.

Dwan and Sharon's stuff is kind of on the light side. Buy it on E-bay if you can get a cheap enough price. There is some good descriptions about the foreclosure process and short sales (although light and not worth the money)... and one of the women's voices really annoys me to the point of drinking.

I've heard a one hour lecture by John Schaub, and I'm interested in hearing more on his approach.

Legrand's marketing course is fairly good... but mostly Dan Kennedy re-hash.

Nickerson's stuff is dense and hard to get through, as is Al Lowry.

There's probably more I'm forgetting. Throw some names at me, and I'll have an opinion. I have an opinion on everything.

- Adam.


Adam buys houses....

I'm sorry to say how let down this makes me feel.

You all seem to be intelligent and thoughtful individuals with many different opinions, and I respect your right to have them...but this thread was started to let others know about the condition and circumstance of a renowned individual who matters to some...but more importantly is just a man who needs our prayers.

If it were Mr. Reed himself, I would still pray for the man, or any and all of you who have posted in this thread.

Just my thoughts about this thread.

Robin R

Adam -

> Okay, you're saying that he bashes others to
> sell his products. I don't see him bashing
> anyone to sell his products. But in
> suggesting that he does, it seems like
> you're bashing him. Guess it's a matter of
> perspective, huh?

I suppose it *is* a matter of perspective. You and I have discussed and agreed on a number of things over the years. It appears we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

But Rick...

Waaaaaaaaaaaa

That's no fun!!!!

:)

- Adam.

One thing I fogot to mention...

It seems like almost all of the guys who have been successful doing RE full time (creatively) don't stick with one specific model, but have a variety of ways to buy and finance and profit from a house.

Sub.2, Wrap, Short Sale, L/O... so that they can adapt to whereever the seller or buyer needs.

Robin,

I think I speak for all of us when I say that we wish the man a speedy recovery-- on a personal level.

But we like to argue and discuss and analyze and discuss some more... that's why we participate in these forums. We're not bashing each other... we're all friends (as far as I'm concerned).

Just exchanging opinions. :)

With everything you read, I think it pays to read widely. That includes, of course, when you read Robert Allen's stuff (along with everyone else's stuff as well). Let me explain.

For example, I have Robert Allen's book, "Creating Wealth". In that book, he covers a lot of different topics. I would tend to see this book as a possible "launching point" - it introduces you to a lot of ideas. It's valuable for introducing you to a lot of ideas which you might otherwise never even consider. However, for many of these ideas, you'll need to read more widely to be able to use these ideas with maximum profit and minimum risk.

My own studies haven't focused on Robert Allen though - I've tended to focus my activities mostly on mail order marketing / direct response marketing techniques on one hand, and stock market investment (Warren Buffett style) on the other hand.

Nevertheless, I think there are valuable ideas in his books - but of course, always read widely to get a more complete view of ANY topic.

And it goes without saying, don't do anything illegal (or which you feel is unethical). Books can't always cover this, because what is legal in one place, is illegal somewhere else - so you have to do this homework yourself.

- Dien Rice

Adam -

> Haven't been exposed to P. Egeler.

Pete occasionally posts here. I have a link to his site. I'll dig it out and post it under another thread.

> I don't think this is the test. Because you
> can find somebody who will learn something
> from a blank piece of paper, and still go
> out and make money due to dumb luck, natural
> aptitude, chance, hard work, whatever. The
> test needs to be: How does the info. work
> AND how does it stack up compared to the
> rest of what is on the market.

Ok. I will concede that even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in awhile. Let's break down what you said into the 2 component phrases.

1. How does the info work?

The LeGrand info works quite well. There are number of people that I have spoken with that are doing well with it. This sheds light on another important point which you alluded to. The systems are *reproducible*. It's not just a case of the blind squirrel getting the acorn. I myself have not yet done as well with it as I would like because I have not yet devoted the kind of time to it that I feel it needs. But that's not the system. That's me.

Reed's info? Who knows? Like I said, I'm not in any position to make a value judgement on his info since I've not seen it.

2. How does it compare to the rest of the material available?

I think LeGrand compares quite well. The guy says he's bought and sold 1400+ houses in the last 20+ years. I have no reason not to believe him. As for the material, heck, he invented a lot of it 10+ years ago because there wasn't much out there.
And I've been happy with the amount and quality of info I've gotten in the stuff I've purchased from him.

Reed? Again, I don't know.

> I've done a lot of study, since we last
> talked about this. My internet company puts
> food on the table and only requires a couple
> of hours a day to make a full time living,
> so I have a lot of time to spend goofing
> off. I joined the local RE Investment club,
> became great friends with the top RE
> Attorney in Texas (we have lunch now, once a
> week), and have picked up two mentors-- one,
> a man who own 30 houses and started about
> four years ago, and the other a woman who
> owns about 14 houses. I've also been
> devouring most of the more popular info.
> courses and have been running newspaper and
> radio ads. Last month I talked with a ton of
> motivated sellers, and I've been fortunate
> to have made the contacts I have, because
> even though I could have bought probably 5
> or 6 houses no money down last month, I
> don't feel they were actual
> "deals." Surprise, surprise.

Adam, this is *excellent*. And like you, the biggest challenge I have so far is getting enough *real* deals into the system. (I'm developing something that I hope will help myself and others with that but I'll leave that for another time.)

> I have most of Legrand's stuff... and to
> tell you the truth, there is a lot of good
> stuff in there. Much more than Rob. Allen's.
> But there is also a lot of dangerous stuff.

I'm not using Robert Allen's real estate stuff. I have some of it but I also have his "Multiple Streams" stuff and his latest with MVH. IMO, there is *much* good material in there. And let's give him his just due. He was one of the pioneers in starting the "no money down" industry.

I'm interested to know what of LeGrand's stuff you find "dangerous."

> One thing that bothers me about Legrand in
> particular, is that he (when last I checked)
> still sells his course on buying using Lease
> Options. But according to several people who
> are affiliates of his old company, SDI, he
> no longer advocates buying on L/O. He
> recommends that you DON'T do it.

Well... I don't know why they would say that. I went to a workshop that LeGrand himself taught last summer. He *did not* mention anything about not selling on L/O. Doesn't mean he didn't change. I just don't know that and have not heard that. Now. I do know that Cameron Dunlap (teaches for SDI) will sometimes recommend buying on an L/O and selling on agreement for deed, land contract, or whatever they're called in your area. Says it protects you more that way. I will also say that I recently heard Ron say on one of the CDs that comes with "The Mentor", (a monthly newsletter), that he now tells all of his students to close all of their L/Os and subject-to deals with an attorney. He no longer recommends kitchen table closings.

> So, if he's still selling (to the best of my
> knowledge) courses on how to buy with L/O
> strike... isn't this dangerous, and possibly
> unethical?

Dangerous? I don't know. Unethical? Hmmm. Outdated? Possibly. If it's true that this is now his position.

> I've also reviewed the course by Randi and
> Charlie Frances... one of Legrand's top
> students. Their course is expensive, but
> very complete for the beginner. However, if
> you took this course alone and used their
> strategy in the market here in Austin, you'd
> get creme-ed. I'm sorry, but the no equity
> deals they preach that you should do will
> get you slaughtered when the market drops
> and you can't unload it, drop rents, or have
> enough positive to cover vacancy and
> maintenence.

I think their material is some of the most overpriced on the market. And I'm not sure what they teach about subject to that Ron doesn't teach.

> I've read one of Joe Kaiser's courses...
> awesome stuff. A real straight shooter.

I've not seen his material. I've read some of articles and he appears to be the real deal. He has written a few articles for "The Mentor" and I've read some of his stuff on Creonline.

> There is a book called 5 Magic Paths to Real
> Estate by a guy named Lumbley, if I
> remember... which is pretty good.

Hmmm. Hadn't heard of him. Lumbley. I'll check him out.

> Some of Bronchick's stuff is good... but not
> AS GOOD as everyone hypes it up to be.

I have his $20.00 book. I agree. I thought it was light. Although he had nice marketing samples which I plan to "model."

> Conti & Finkle's books sounded great...
> until I learned how it really works in the
> real world. Met Conti at our local club and
> he seemed like a conman. Wouldn't answer ANY
> questions at the end of his lecture/pitch to
> sell his stuff at the back of the room.

Interesting. The only thing of their's I have is the book that went to an e-book about a year ago. They've written some articles for "The Mentor" as well.

> Tim Randle is coming out with a course that
> I've been able to preview, and his stuff is
> dead on. Watch for it... It will save you a
> lot of money.

Tim Randle. Hmmm. Not familiar with his name. Does he post on any of the RE boards?

> Dwan and Sharon's stuff is kind of on the
> light side. Buy it on E-bay if you can get a
> cheap enough price. There is some good
> descriptions about the foreclosure process
> and short sales (although light and not
> worth the money)... and one of the women's
> voices really annoys me to the point of
> drinking.

That's good to know. I thought their stuff was overpriced as well.

> I've heard a one hour lecture by John
> Schaub, and I'm interested in hearing more
> on his approach.

John Schaub. I've heard the name but don't know anything about him.

> Legrand's marketing course is fairly good...
> but mostly Dan Kennedy re-hash.

*Which* marketing course? Oh. You mean his "Guerrilla Marketing" course? You've seen it then?

> Nickerson's stuff is dense and hard to get
> through, as is Al Lowry.

I'm aware of both of these two but have not seen their stuff. I guess Robert Allen based his RE stuff on these guys.

> There's probably more I'm forgetting. Throw
> some names at me, and I'll have an opinion.

Cameron Dunlap has some pretty good stuff. You can check him out at camerondirect.com. I'd give you an affiliate link but I don't have my stuff together on it so just go over there. I'm in his "Inner Circle." $39.00 a month. I think it's worth it most of the time. And the calls are mostly *not* about people trying to hawk their stuff to the people on the call.

According to Cameron Dunlap, Jeff Kaller
is *the man* when it comes to pre-foreclosures, short sales, etc. I think his course is a bit pricey but it's supposed to be good. He was on a recent Dunlap conference call. I thought he gave good info.

Chuck Smith. chucksmith.org or chuchsmithrealestateseminars

I saw Chuck Smith at the LeGrand workshop last June. I'd like to hear your opinion on him before I give mine.

Robyn Thompson. I believe her site is robynthompson.com. Robyn is another LeGrand student who has done well. She focuses on rehabs. I think her material is reasonably priced but I haven't seen it so I don't know if it's any good or not.

Alex Gurevich. getrichlazy.com. I get his e-zine but I haven't seen any of his courses. I've listened to some of his audio material. It bored me to tears. I don't know if the material is any good or not. He spoke in such a monotone, I turned the thing off and deleted it.

Ted Thomas. Yup. Ted Thomas. Ted was actually the guy that got me into real estate. I was of course aware of him because of his info products from the info marketing side. I have some of that stuff. About 2 years ago, I bought Ted's tax lien/tax deed stuff. I thought it was good. However, I found it annoying that his outfit to *this day* refuses to send the hardcopy newsletters that I was supposed to get with my purchase. I got two issues and then they stopped. And I have been round and round with them about it. I finally gave up. But Ted doesn't seem to have a problem with sending the latest marketing piece. (Which of course goes into the swipe file.)
I don't know if Ted sells the courses directly. I think you can still get it from Phil Huff at cash4notes.com.

Well, that's probably enough for now. (g)

> I have an opinion on everything.

(g)

P.S. Check your e-mail in the next day or so for further discussion about some of this. I want to ask you some specific questions and run something by you.

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

> Robin,

> I think I speak for all of us when I say
> that we wish the man a speedy recovery-- on
> a personal level.

> But we like to argue and discuss and analyze
> and discuss some more... that's why we
> participate in these forums. We're not
> bashing each other... we're all friends (as
> far as I'm concerned).

> Just exchanging opinions. :)

Well said. I agree 110%!!

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"

Adam -

> But Rick...
> Waaaaaaaaaaaa
> That's no fun!!!!

> :)

LOL. I know. We were forged in the same crucible with Rodman and Ross and all the rest in the "old days" on Bill Myers' old board.

But that's what makes it so nice discussing things here. You can have a difference of opinion, respect the other guy, and end it like I did without name calling or any of the flame nonsense I see in too many other places.

Referring back to Bill's board, I think the flame wars and the spam are what killed it when other parties bought him out.

Rick Smith, "The Net Guerrilla"