If you don't have 10% returns then you aren't tryin!

What I think, in your first post. And now you're saying "opinions have nothing to do with it."

Opinions have Everything to do with it...

To quote your quote... "One of the symptoms of not doing a good marketing job is when most people feel they got a better product and value than they thought they would."

Meaning: you under-promised and over-delivered.

And Joe says THAT it bad marketing.

The implication being... it is better to over-promise and under-deliver because you will make more sales.

Again, I say, it is not something *I* am comfortable with. JS obviously is, otherwise he would not suggest to do it.

And while it is nice to say it all comes down to the numbers, it cannot be totally about the numbers. Running totally by the numbers is what generates feelings of ill will from customers. That's why they feel used and abused... as if the business is just after their money. Because when you run totally by the numbers, all you are interested in is the customer's money.

It really boils down to your own internal standards as far as customer satisfaction goes.

> Apparently Joe using the
> information at his disposal found that a 10%
> return rate was acceptable given the amount
> of sales of a given category. I think given
> his sales his method was successful.

The success of the method is not being questioned here. The ethics of it are. JS is basically saying to under-deliver and over-promise.

> The bottom line is everyone tells us what
> the 'bench-marks' should be but I doubt most
> have the numbers to back it up.

I don't recall this "everyone tells us what the benchmarks should be" thing. Now you're changing the subject. JS quotes some averages... and that's all they are. And averages are made up by higher than average numbers and lower than average numbers.

You asked for my opinion, I gave it. It is different to JS's opinion on the subject and, I gather, your opinion.

I won't run my business JS's recommended way. JS can. You can. The whole world can for all I care. I won't. To hell with the numbers. I'm about trying to please the customer. Not "get as much business as you can and to hell with pleasing the customer."

It's about The Pizza in the Oven.

Michael Ross


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