SOWPub Small Business Forums  
 

Click Here to see the latest posts!

Ask any questions related to business / entrepreneurship / money-making / life
or share your success stories (and educational "failures")...

Sign up for the Hidden Business Ideas Letter Free edition, and receive a free report straight to your inbox: "Idea that works in a pandemic: Ordinary housewife makes $50,000 a month in her spare time, using a simple idea - and her driveway..."

NO BLATANT ADS PLEASE
Also, please no insults or personal attacks.
Feel free to link to your web site though at the end of your posts.

Stay up to date! Get email notifications or
get "new thread" feeds here

 

Go Back   SOWPub Small Business Forums > Main Category > Original SOWPub Forum Archive
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
  #5  
Old March 11, 2003, 06:58 PM
Michael Ross (Aust, Qld)
 
Posts: n/a
Default Possible solutions...

> In the article, he seems to jump from saying
> that the protestors at Stanford were
> organized by "Communists" and
> "Stalinists" to implying that all
> the protests were organized by
> "Communists" and
> "Stalinists". However, he doesn't
> seem to provide any evidence for making that
> big leap.

I didn't read it as all protests being organized by communists. I read it as follows...

Communists get idea.

Communists influence and warm non-communists to the idea.

Non-communists carry out the idea (protest).

Thus, the communists have use the non-communists as a tool to do their dirty work. And they (the communists) would do this by using people.

To put this into the North Cal vs South Cal example you gave...

You would lie and cheat to get people on your side and to verbalize the cause. They, having been duped by you to your cause, go about pushing it in their honest, though naive, ways.

> For example, let's say I know that some of
> my customers like jazz music. Does that
> mean, then, that ALL of my customers like
> jazz music? Of course not. Just because SOME
> of my customers like jazz music, it does not
> then follow that ALL of my customers like
> jazz music.

> The leap he makes seems to be similar to
> this one. He doesn't seem to back it by any
> evidence.

The evidence is that the good honest protestors are taking part in a protest which had been organized by people who belong to the communist party. And he gave that evidence.

> He also says that when he was a
> "communist", he just used people.
> Then he seems to imply that ALL
> "communists" do this - another
> leap which seems not backed by any evidence.

I didn't read it as that. I read it as, he "used" people during the organizing of the protests. Any reason to get people to do his bidding to serve his goals which were the goals of those who had his ear.

I didn't read it that all communists did this... only those "higher ups" who did the organizing.

> I'm definitely not a "communist"
> (otherwise I wouldn't be running a marketing
> forum!) - but the article seems to make some
> leaps of logic which he doesn't seem to have
> been backed by any evidence.

I thought he backed it pretty well. Certain communists lie and cheat to get others to do their dirty work - whether those others are communists or not - by using the influence of the affinity groups they belong to.

The evidence was presented by providing the details of who organized the event(s).

> As others have said - protesting is part of
> the right to free speech. Rather than deal
> with the issues the protests raise, it is
> usually easier to simply "label"
> the protestors with a label. This seems to
> simply be a way of trying to avoid dealing
> with the issues, because to actually deal
> with the issues is much more complex and
> difficult.

You raise a very interesting observation. Now let me throw it back into the pot...

It is far easier to protest against something and pick it apart WITHOUT offering a viable alternative.

The Church of Scientology documents on dealing with those who might be against their agenda encourages discrediting as opposed to fixing.

In other words... and as it would relate to this current crisis with Iraq... try and discredit those at the head (Bush, Blair, etc.) by making a big deal out of little things that are usually not the case (keep on talking about a war for oil when it isn't, talk about innocent people being hurt/killed, etc.), and accuse them (Bush, Blair, etc.) of things which they spend time responding to. And basically mislead and misdirect the whole crisis and turn it from what it is to something else.

The inspectors' job is to verify the destruction of weapons. That has been turned on its head as a job to find them. Each "breach" is considered minor (even though they all add up - it's the boiling frog thing) and instead of being about disarming Iraq for material breach it is being pushed towards being about inspectors. The focus is attempted to be diverted away from the real issue.

Another good "trick" is to often just up and change it.

The question isn't whether Iraq is in breach, the question is how much more time do we give the inspectors to do their work which seems to be making progress.

It's not about taking care of Iraq and ridding the world of a murderous dictator, it's about the US quest to have some control over oil output from the middle east while limiting the enemy's access to a free and clear sea port.

In both of the above examples, I diverted away from the Real item and said instead, what the question really was. And thus can easily change the focus. Politicians use this trick all the time - if you pay close attention.

In other words... the object of the protests is to make those in power waste time and effort defending their stance on subjects which have nothing to do with the real situation.

If people are not discredited, then sources of information are to be discredited. The idea is to discredit the source of the information without ever discrediting the information itself.

One rebuttal the Scientologists are trained to say goes something like this...

"You're a Scientologist? I heard you guys deny your members from getting together with no Scientologists. Is that true?

"Where did you hear that?"

"It was in the newspaper."

"Which one?"

"The Home Town Daily"

"Oh, the home town daily. They also reported 'false report inserted here'. So they aren't very reliable source of information, are they? Besides, you don't believe everything you read in the newspaper do you? They always exagerate things, don't they?"

Notice, the question was never answered and instead, the source of the info was questioned to cast doubt on its credibility. The implication is... if the source loses cred then the info must also be wrong.

Another element is to ignore the things which would put an end to your arguement.

In the case of the protestors...

What about all the people Saddam has killed with bio/chem/normal weapons?

What about his using oil money to build monuments to himself while denying his people proper medical treatment?

What about going against every UN resolution since this all began 12 years ago?

What about his declaration which has been PROVEN to lack a lot of information. And the lies of "we do not have those kinds of weapons" only to be discovered to have them?

What about blowing up Kuwait oil fields? The worst environmental thing ever and you worry about someone cutting down a tree in your neighborhood with govt permission.

What about.... you get the idea.

All these FACTS are conveniently ignored by the protestors. And they only concentrate on elements that misdirect from the real issue.

The protest organizers also are aware of the "crowd mind" as opposed to the mind of the individual. A person is smart. People are dumb.

And then there are those who infiltrate an otherwise peaceful march and turn it into violence. I've seen footage of it. It's incredible how such a small handful of people (less than ten) can suddenly get a crowd of thousands to turn violent.

Good discussion.

Michael Ross
 


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump

Other recent posts on the forum...


Seeds of Wisdom Publishing (front page) | Seeds of Wisdom Business forum | Seeds of Wisdom Original Business Forum (Archive) | Hidden Unusual Business Ideas Newsletter | Hotsheet Profits | Persuade via Remote Influence | Affia Band | The Entrepreneur's Hotsheet | The SeedZine (Entrepreneurial Ezine)

Get the report on Harvey Brody's Answers to a Question-Oriented-Person


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.