Web 2.0 marketing. Some food for thought. And your OPINIONS are highly encouraged...

ZIP.

Yup, ZIP. Mostly, Web 2.0 is nothing more than hype. It involves doing what people have been trying to teach you to do all along. In other words, there is no "Web 2.0".

What there IS, is a new phrase coined by a marketer trying to give his stuff some zip.

I've been to a couple of hard-nosed marketing forums in the past few weeks were this has been kicked around, and kicked to death. And, most all of those that have participated in the discussions all agree.. Web 2.0 is nothing more than doing what you SHOULD have been doing all along.

But hey, it makes for some lively discussions, and it gets the newbie to buy something that they might otherwise pass on. Shoot fire, if it says Web 2.0 it must be something really hot! (Not)

My 2¢

Pete

Pete,

I've heard you say this before but didn't reply to it.

I think you have a misunderstanding of what web 2.0 is all about.

For the kind of stuff you do, like mostly ebooks and sales pages, web 2.0 is pretty much meaningless, as it is to most marketers.

I've got a few web applications being built right now where web 2.0 is totally for real and a key part of what I'm doing.

I'd like to hear your defination of what you think web 2.0 really is because I'm guessing you've got it all wrong.

Jim

I haven't had time to do the research on Web 2.0 so no direct opinion there yet.

IF, and that's a big if, web 2.0 or some such allows more direct sales like interaction, then I'd be all for it. One of the big frustrations for me has been the lack of a real sales situation. As a long time salesperson, trainer etc..I really miss the face to face interactivity. There's nothing quite like seeing a person's reaction and judging their body language etc...to increase comfort level and leverage for both parties, IMHO.

Until I have time to read and study, that's the best opinion you'll be able to get from me. Personally, for anything major, I would hate shopping online as it now stands...in fact, I won't do it currently, if I have a choice. Yet, I've been known to buy from catalogs so...go figure.

Here's another little thought: I find I buy more confidently and easily from catalogs these days. Wonder if the influence of the internet has anything to do with that change? Could it have something to do with not being rushed by 'time outs' and being more in control of the entire ordering process (like going back and re-reading portions of the description, for example, without having to re-do everything again) from a catalog versus internet? More food for thought?

Sandi Bowman

[Ankesh]

In the last decade, two somewhat similar but different thoughts have emerged.

1. Wisdom of the Crowd. How crowds make better decisions than a single person.

2. The Long Tail. How different people want different and very uncommon options. Best example: 60% of books sold by amazon.com are unknown hidden books that aren't carried in the retail brick and mortar book stores at all.

Internet is the only medium that allows efficient use of the idea behind the "wisdom of the crowd" and the "long tail" together.

Provide a lot of options to people (or let the people themselves create the options). And let them make a decision as to what they want and what is hot.

And web 2.0 is the term coined to describe that idea.

Is the idea itself new? Not at all. Just look at Dell.

I fully understand what Mr. O'Reilly is saying. HOWEVER, I do NOT agree with those that are claiming that if you don't follow their "Web 2.0" methods, you aren't going to make it on the Internet. You don't have a choice!

If you look at Tim's explination of Web 2.0, you can see it's more or less a natural progression, not some "Whoa.. The Holy Grail" as some are shouting, and that's what's tickin' me off about the whole thing.

Web 2.0 as outlined by Tim O'Reilly is just a natural progression in my mind, not some great, hot-off-the-press-grab-it-or-lose concept as many marketers would have you believe.

Consider those just hitting the Internet for the first time. They never knew the Web 1.0 stuff. They're starting right out of the gate with "Web 2.0" and know nothing else. Just like you folks that have never had the "joy" of starting out on a Commadore Computer. You started out with Computer 2.0.

So, guess I'm saying that there's nothing "Super Natural" about Web 2.0 as many marketers would have your believe. It's simply using the platforms that are available to everyone.

Some guy saw the O'Reilly term, said "hey, let's use that term and we'll sell more stuff 'cause everyone will think it's something they just have to have."

Clear as mud?

Pete

Pete, I think you're missing the point.

I don't see marketers pushing anything about web 2.0. I don't hang out in those circles.

It's not any sort of sales tactic or associated with any type of product you can purchase so I'm not sure what you are getting at there.

It's all about user connectivity and user generated content and building communities where users can interact and share. It's about websites built and directed by it's users in real time. (or at least that's a big part of it without getting too deep into it)

Take a look at the top 10 websites in the US and tell me if you see any web 2.0 stuff there....

-Yahoo
-Google
-MySpace
-Microsoft
-eBay
-YouTube
-Facebook
-Wikipedia
-Craigslist

Most of it!

And the "heavy" web 2.0 stuff on the list we had never heard of a couple years ago - MySpace - YouTube - Facebook - Wikipedia

It shows that web 2.0 is what users are looking for and demanding.

Jim

Take a look at the top 10 websites in the US and tell me if you see any web 2.0 stuff there....

-Yahoo
-Google
-MySpace
-Microsoft
-eBay
-YouTube
-Facebook
-Wikipedia
-Craigslist

They are all places where people can share ideas, discussions, binary files, form communities of like minded individuals...

Hey wait a sec...

Back in the early 90's when there was only roughly 25-30 million people using the Internet (compared to the 600 million today), we didn't have to worry about spammers as much. There were business groups on the USENET where we networked, shared files (binary newsgroups), and forums for discussion on just about any topic you could imagine. That's where I first, virtually met, Paul Myers. He used to be one of the moderators of one of the business discussion forums I subscribed to.

Well, the point is, by the marketers definition of Web 2.0, I think the Usenet would fit the description too. Does that sound about right to you?

Me, I think over the years the Internet has evolved into becoming more interactive simply because now a lot of people can have a voice without being a programmer, and the programming languages have progressed and developed over time. But I'm not ready to slap a new moniker on it just so I can market to people who don't know didley squat about the web and sell them the same old goods and services re-branded as Web 2.0.

Jim Rapoza, eWeek writes:

"When I first looked at these supposedly new and radically updated products and services, none of their improvements struck me as being all that major. And, in the past, when products went through much more radical changes, no one saw a need to rename or reposition whole product categories—for example, back in the 1990s, when classic enterprise systems became Internet- and Web-capable.

But then I realized I was thinking like a technologist and an IT guy and not like a marketing and sales guru. Sure, an IT guy looks at these products and thinks, What's the big deal? You added some common-sense capabilities, and now you act like it's this whole new thing?

But these savvy Enterprise 2.0 companies aren't pitching their products to IT professionals. Smart and capable IT people tend to be a little boring when it comes to enterprise systems. They are more than happy to stick with an older but solid system rather than move to some newer system for fairly minor new capabilities (especially for capabilities that often easily can be added through third-party and free open-source products).

Instead, the Enterprise 2.0 pitch is directed at businesspeople, who often are not very technology-savvy but are increasingly controlling the IT spending at their companies."

You can read the full article here:
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2089495,00.asp

If you don't mind me being blunt, "Web 2.0" is the new buzz word, old and tired marketers are re-branding themselves to -- trying to make themselves look like they are on the cutting edge of technology with the same "must have" products and services they peddled the last few years.

Best Regards,
Steve MacLellan

Can you give me an example of a couple of marketers branding themselves with the web 2.0 thing?

Jim

Hi Jim,

I'm sure you can understand. I'm not going to start labeling any company or individual on a forum. If you know how to use Google, I'm sure you can find them on your own.

Regards,
Steve MacLellan

Originally Posted by Steve MacLellan

I'm sure you can find them on your own.

No, Steve, I can't.

I can't find one marketer who is "re-branding themselves to Web 2.0"

That seems to be the impression that you and Pete have here and I can't figure out what it is based on.

I could be wrong. I'm not saying that I'm not.

Just looking for an example or two since you guys seem to know.

Jim