Making The Sale...

Ankesh,

Thanks for the "Hip Hop History...Marketing" lesson.

Here's a piece of Hip Hop Trivia that someone had told me in a conversation.

Do you know where the "baggy pants" style originated?

I'm talking about "Hip Hop Heads" wearing their jeans down below their buttocks.

Any idea??

Originally Posted by Ankesh

Thanks Dien

1.

Todays extreme is tomorrows mainstream.

As Chartreuse says: "you must understand the extremes if you want to understand the future because that’s where the middle (the mainstream) comes from."

2.

While Eminem and 50 Cent have earned the most out of Rap / Hip Hop - its influence could be seen well before they came to the scene.

Tupac has been rapping since 1991.

Wu Tang Clan started in 1993. (They have a fascinating story of how they banded together to become famous and conquer the hip hop market.)

But in the 1990s - only a select niche listened to Hip Hop. Most of these artists as well as listeners were African American.

In the 1990s, Hip Hop was the extreme. In 2000 - it became the mainstream.

3.

“Every generation needs a new revolution.” - Thomas Jefferson

How could the white kids rebel?

Kids started wearing baggy pants and listening to Hip Hop. It started out as a form of rebellion. (Rebellion to what? Read a bit below...)

Chuck Berry and Elvis Presley have become Tupac Shakur and Eminem, and the Baby Boomers' reaction to them is much like their own parents' reaction to Chuck and Elvis. But instead of saying, "Take a bath, cut your hair and get a job," we're saying, "Pull those pants up, spin that cap around and wash your mouth out with soap." - Roy H. Williams

A point is to be made about "Peer Pressure." Most kids didn't understand Hip Hop. But still liked it. Why? Because their friends liked it.

Every big phenomena has only a handful trend setters. While most are trend followers. Its the same with Hip Hop too.

4.

But if rebellion was all it was, Hip Hop would have been a fad. It isn't. The reason for that?

The trend setters loved Hip Hop for what it conveyed and what it stood for. In one phrase:

Down with fakery.

In one word, they craved:

Authenticity.

The revolt was against years of accumulated hype. Against perfectionism.

"I'm stupid, I'm ugly, I'm dumb, I smell. Did I mention I'm stupid?" - Eminem

Do you now understand why "Be Real" has been the Hip Hop mantra?

This rebellion against hype can be seen in other arenas too. Roy H. Williams said it best in a workshop I attended:

Yesterdays James Bond is todays Jason Bourne.

James Bond was always dressed perfect and rode the hottest car with the best gadgets. Jason Bourne? Has amnesia. Rides banged up cars he stole. Has no super weapon.

The last James Bond movie didn't do as well as it used to do 10 years ago. The last Jason Bourne movie?

It may have started out with Hip Hop and kids. But the whole world is revolting against perfectionism. Give us authenticity instead.

Action Summary:

Its ok to have faults and reveal them.

If you want the world to like you and buy from you, be authentic*. Be yourself. Don't sugarcoat your faults (instead - try fixing them). Be real.

* Don't fake it. Remember Janet Jackson. Her stunt blew up in her face not because she showed a boob on TV. But because she faked it and was found out.

[Ankesh]

Thanks Duane.

I've heard that baggy pants originated from prison - but am not sure if thats true or just a myth...

Hi Ankesh,

Thanks for Playing :->

THAT was what I heard as well. Specifically "Chuck D" from the old Hip Hop Group Public enemy had come to our city for some kind of symposium.

And I heard he "Schooled" the attendees on what the real deal was with the baggy trouser.

I believe it is fact. Here is what on Historian said.

http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/p...template=apart

"The style originated in prisons and picked up steam with the hip-hop scene, said Southern University History Department professor Raymond Lockett.

"Prisoners are not allowed to have belts and shoe laces. Since they can't have belts, their pants are saggy and our young people are picking up that style.

"A lot of people are making a lot of money with our youngsters with that style of dress," Lockett said."

So I believe it did originate from prisons.

Pretty Interesting.

Here is a review of some of the thoughts from one of Chuck D's university presentations. He shares his thoughts on MORE than just baggy pants.

http://www.expressnews.ualberta.ca/article.cfm?id=5350

Originally Posted by Ankesh

Thanks Duane.

I've heard that baggy pants originated from prison - but am not sure if thats true or just a myth...

Duane,

Thanks for asking about Baggy Pants.

I heard... it started due to Hand-Me-Down clothes. Obviously the big brother's clothes were too big. BUT, for some reason, some kids thoughts those kids in hand-me-downs were Cool and off it goes. (And it's now pushed as cool.)

This makes sense as I've heard from several parents bewildered why their children want to Act and dress like the School Drongos who they think of as Cool for some reason.

And while I am here... Ankesh... there is Nothing Authentic about those Rappers - and Rap Crap started BEFORE the 90s. It started in the 80s.

You cannot tell me 50 cent and M&M are Authentic when they don't even use their real name. It ain't about being Authentic... it's about being Controversial. And if it upsets the kids parents then the kids go for it.

From the Beatles with their Long Hair to the gyrating hips of Elvis... it's all about the Controversy. Just ask Madonna.

Michael Ross

Hmm Hand Me Down clothes ? I never heard that one before.

Hmm, In my reply to Ankesh's post above I have a link to Chuck D's presentation at a university. While the article does not discuss his views on baggy pants. The article does state that Chuck D encourages Critical thinking

Thought you might find some of what he says interesting.


D on current rap music and hip hop stars:

"Someone performed a lobotomy on rap music and hip hop...It's debatable whether the soul is still there...More and more you see rappers who don't have words in their vocabularies."

eg. Chuck D on education

"Remember, human beings are the most valuable, most important resource on the planet...If money is your God, then you'll tap dance for governments, for anything. Leave here tonight with your own mind to think for yourself. Don't be a robot."

D on consumerism and how corporations market their goods:

"The feeling is that if you ain't buying something then you ain't nothing. [It's as if] you have to suck up to some corporation to legitimize your existence."

He some interesting views on government I think you'll find...interesting as well.

http://www.expressnews.ualberta.ca/article.cfm?id=5350

Originally Posted by MichaelRoss

Duane,

Thanks for asking about Baggy Pants.

I heard... it started due to Hand-Me-Down clothes. Obviously the big brother's clothes were too big. BUT, for some reason, some kids thoughts those kids in hand-me-downs were Cool and off it goes. (And it's now pushed as cool.)

This makes sense as I've heard from several parents bewildered why their children want to Act and dress like the School Drongos who they think of as Cool for some reason.

And while I am here... Ankesh... there is Nothing Authentic about those Rappers - and Rap Crap started BEFORE the 90s. It started in the 80s.

You cannot tell me 50 cent and M&M are Authentic when they don't even use their real name. It ain't about being Authentic... it's about being Controversial. And if it upsets the kids parents then the kids go for it.

From the Beatles with their Long Hair to the gyrating hips of Elvis... it's all about the Controversy. Just ask Madonna.

Michael Ross