Thought I'd heard 'em all:-)

> As I say to advertisers who approach me...
> "If you are so sure this will earn me
> as much revenue why dont we profit
> sahe...you'll get more bu I wont have to pay
> up front"...very few even *consider*
> it.... yet most would recognise this
> logicallt as a true win/win proposition

Hi guys! New poster here....had to respond to this as a former yellow page advertising exec! :)
We actually "partnered" so to speak, with the phone company and did a Guaranteed Ad Program with our customers....they would be assigned a # that would only appear in the phone directory that we published; the calls to this # would be tracked and the customer could actually SEE how many calls they were receiving from our directory every month. If they did not receive the agreed upon call count, they were prorated a refund...win/win!

Thanks!
Lisa


Website not finished but ready for biz!!!

> Hi guys!

Hi Lisa!

> New poster here....

Welcome. Put on your thick skin... text writing has no tone and can easily be mis-understood :o)

> had to respond
> to this as a former yellow page advertising
> exec! :)

Advertising Exec? What is that? Is that a fancy term for someone who sells Yellow Pages advertising? Or is that someone who "manages" the salesmen and women? (BTW... we - me in particular - don't believe on PC.)

> We actually "partnered" so to
> speak, with the phone company and did a
> Guaranteed Ad Program with our
> customers....they would be assigned a # that
> would only appear in the phone directory
> that we published; the calls to this # would
> be tracked and the customer could actually
> SEE how many calls they were receiving from
> our directory every month. If they did not
> receive the agreed upon call count, they
> were prorated a refund...win/win!

Let me get this straight... YOU (as in the YP) teamed up with the phone company to track the client's phone calls. IF the number of calls received by the client did not match the mutually agreed upon number (agreed upon number based on ad size, I assume) then the client would get that month's worth of advertising refunded. Is that right?

The people offering the guarantee were also the ones doing the monitoring? Oh gee. Excuse me for my doubt... but can't you just see it... "Hey guys, Bob's Meats hasn't received the agreed upon call numbers for the month... quick... make some calls to bump his numbers up so we don't have to refund the money."

I suppose they paid extra for the "guarantee" too, right?

Don't get me wrong... performance guarantees are great. In this case, however, there are some serious issues. After all, the YP was in partnership with the phone company.

Anyway. Looked at your sorta-website. What on Earth is "Total Quality Management"? Sounds like a load of high-falut'n corporate gobble-de-gook to me. I'm serious... what is "Total Quality Management"?

Michael Ross


Please click here

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the welcome! Glad to be a part of this forum.

Hope you put on your extra layer of skin today as well!

"Advertising Exec" was merely a generalized term I used in order to get my point across, which, by the way, was not supposed to be a discussion of my former title. But, hey, I'm game for any discussion!

Total Quality Manager, which I'm sure does sound a bit "high-falut'n", but then don't most things in the corporate world?? The idea behind Total Quality Management is mainly "continuous improvement" both internal & external. In other words insuring that things run as smooth as possible both for the customer and inside the company, ie. workflows of all departments, etc. The TQM generally answers only to the President, or in my case, the GM, and therefore has the responsibility of everyone below him to different extents. Hope this clears it up a bit for you.

Now, on to the issue of the ad guarantee. These monthly reports could be accessed by the customer at any time during the month. Any call that came into his business by the assigned telephone # would be on that report. We only "counted" calls that were over a certain # of minutes long, meaning these were most likely ones that were customers or potential customers. So, if the report total was, say, 63, we only counted ones that were over 3-4 minutes long. I think that shows the fairness to some extent. The report shows the name & number that called, the time of day & length of the call, whether or not the call was answered or if the business line was busy and also showed the zip code of the incoming call. Kinda hard to rig that! Oh, and no....the guarantee & the monitoring were not coming from the same people. WE, as in the yp company, gave the guarantee; the phone company sets up the # and anyone, including the customer who has the passcode, can monitor the calls coming in.

My "sorta" website is still in the building stages. I went with one design, then after lots of researching and taking advice from others, I decided a different design would work better. Hey, thanks for visiting it though!!!

By the way, Michael, just for kicks....what is your title??

Lisa

> Hi Lisa!

> Welcome. Put on your thick skin... text
> writing has no tone and can easily be
> mis-understood :o)

> Advertising Exec? What is that? Is that a
> fancy term for someone who sells Yellow
> Pages advertising? Or is that someone who
> "manages" the salesmen and women?
> (BTW... we - me in particular - don't
> believe on PC.)

> Let me get this straight... YOU (as in the
> YP) teamed up with the phone company to
> track the client's phone calls. IF the
> number of calls received by the client did
> not match the mutually agreed upon number
> (agreed upon number based on ad size, I
> assume) then the client would get that
> month's worth of advertising refunded. Is
> that right?

> The people offering the guarantee were also
> the ones doing the monitoring? Oh gee.
> Excuse me for my doubt... but can't you just
> see it... "Hey guys, Bob's Meats hasn't
> received the agreed upon call numbers for
> the month... quick... make some calls to
> bump his numbers up so we don't have to
> refund the money."

> I suppose they paid extra for the
> "guarantee" too, right?

> Don't get me wrong... performance guarantees
> are great. In this case, however, there are
> some serious issues. After all, the YP was
> in partnership with the phone company.

> Anyway. Looked at your sorta-website. What
> on Earth is "Total Quality
> Management"? Sounds like a load of
> high-falut'n corporate gobble-de-gook to me.
> I'm serious... what is "Total Quality
> Management"?

> Michael Ross

Hope you put on your extra layer of skin
today as well!

I don't have skin. I am a computer generated interactive cyber personality programed with fuzzy logic. I "live" in a mainframe that takes 32 terrabytes to store all of me. You could think of me like "The Matrix." I am everywhere and nowhere.

> "Advertising Exec" was merely a
> generalized term I used in order to get my
> point across, which, by the way, was not
> supposed to be a discussion of my former
> title. But, hey, I'm game for any
> discussion!

Well... what is an Advertising Exec? Or doesn't that "title" actually exist. Is it something you made up? Maybe to... impress us all? Hmm? :o)

So what was yout title there? We don't play silly title games here. But seeing as your brought up titles first...

> By the way, Michael, just for kicks....what
> is your title??

I don't believe in titles. But if I must have one, then the one I've previously mentioned on this board will do fine. It is...

Michael Ross
Pychic. Alchemist. Scholar of the Royal House of St Jumbali. Appointee of the Court of Civil Councils. Entrusted Keeper of the scrolls of Molex. Croc wrestler. International man of mystery. Apprentice Sith Lord. Professional cow-tipper. Part-time Spy. Mouse Pychologist. Computer Potatoe. US Noogie Champion. Ideas Man. Renowned Finger-Painting Artist. Spoon. Astronaut. Astro-Turf Grass Blade Inspector. Stunt Double. Money Grubber. Klingon Translator. Human Divining Rod. Yogie. Human Guinea Pig. And Founder of the Milwaukee Fishmonger's Cult.

BTW... I am really an IRS inspector. Have you filed your taxes?

Hi Michael,

> You could think of me like
> "The Matrix." I am everywhere and
> nowhere.

Sorry...didn't see The Matrix...does that mean I should just not think of you at all?? :)

> Well... what is an Advertising Exec? Or
> doesn't that "title" actually
> exist. Is it something you made up? Maybe
> to... impress us all? Hmm? :o)

I assure you...if I had nothing better to do than try & impress people, it would not be done by using the words "Advertising Exec"! (besides, seems the words Total Quality Manager did a number on you & I didn't even have that in my post. ;o)

> So what was yout title there? We don't play
> silly title games here. But seeing as your
> brought up titles first...

At certain times, games are great ...especially for those of us that need to...R E L A X...(hint hint). However, to answer your question - again - my title was Total Quality Manager. And, not to be too particular, Michael, but I believe it was you that first mentioned it....

> I don't believe in titles. But if I must
> have one, then the one I've previously
> mentioned on this board will do fine. It
> is...

> Michael Ross
> Pychic. Alchemist. Scholar of the Royal
> House of St Jumbali. Appointee of the Court
> of Civil Councils. Entrusted Keeper of the
> scrolls of Molex. Croc wrestler.
> International man of mystery. Apprentice
> Sith Lord. Professional cow-tipper.
> Part-time Spy. Mouse Pychologist. Computer
> Potatoe. US Noogie Champion. Ideas Man.
> Renowned Finger-Painting Artist. Spoon.
> Astronaut. Astro-Turf Grass Blade Inspector.
> Stunt Double. Money Grubber. Klingon
> Translator. Human Divining Rod. Yogie. Human
> Guinea Pig. And Founder of the Milwaukee
> Fishmonger's Cult.

Guinea pig....hmmmmm....close to what I would've chosen for you..... :)

I look forward to reading more posts from you, Michael!

Lisa

> Hi Michael,

> Sorry...didn't see The Matrix...does that
> mean I should just not think of you at all??
> :)

It doesn't mean anything. Then again... it could mean everything. You take it to mean whatever you like.

Of course, if you don't think of me at all... you won't see my sly little tricks. I'll slip under your radar.

> I assure you...if I had nothing better to do
> than try & impress people, it would not
> be done by using the words "Advertising
> Exec"! (besides, seems the words Total
> Quality Manager did a number on you & I
> didn't even have that in my post. ;o)

Did a Number On Me.

Colorful words. What do they mean in plain speak?

> At certain times, games are great
> ...especially for those of us that need
> to...R E L A X...(hint hint).

Hint Hint. Oh... here we go... this is that... I'm going to say something without saying something game. I get it now.

However, to
> answer your question - again - my title was
> Total Quality Manager.

Well... that's all I wanted. Not so hard now was it.

See... I couldn't put two and two together. It might have been obvious to you. But it wasn't to me because you first said you were and Advertising Exec. The TQM bit on your website does not say it was at the same time as your career in the advertising place. See... you know it is... but it is not stated. Thus, confusion happens.

And, not to be too
> particular, Michael, but I believe it was
> you that first mentioned it....

You know... one thing I cannot stand is when people say... "Not to ________ BUT" and then they go an do/be the thing they said they were not going to.

Like you... "Not to be too particular" and then you go and be too particular.

Why can't people just be brave about their actions...

Lisa... check the thread... you were the first one to tell us all you were an Adverising Exec. You were the first person to use a title.

> Guinea pig....hmmmmm....close to what I
> would've chosen for you..... :)

Ummm... okay. I don't get it... whatever you are trying to hint hint at.

I told you... I am a computer generated cyber person programed with fuzzy logic.

Being fuzzy to me... making me try to guess what you mean... causes my code to enter infinite loops.

Just come out and plainly say what you want to say. I can understand that.

> I look forward to reading more posts from
> you, Michael!

Oh goodie. Another fan. :o)

Michael Ross

Michael,

> Did a Number On Me.

> Colorful words. What do they mean in plain
> speak?

I'm more curious to know what it means to you.

> Well... that's all I wanted. Not so hard now
> was it.

I didn't think anything in my original post started out hard...of course, I have been wrong before....

> See... I couldn't put two and two together.

> It might have been obvious to you. But it
> wasn't to me because you first said you were
> and Advertising Exec. The TQM bit on your
> website does not say it was at the same time
> as your career in the advertising place.
> See... you know it is... but it is not
> stated. Thus, confusion happens.

I would apologize for confusing you, but we both know that I would not mean it and that would give you further information to analyze and dispute wouldn't it? (certainly not to say that is a bad thing!) :)

> And, not to be too

> You know... one thing I cannot stand is when
> people say... "Not to ________
> BUT" and then they go an do/be the
> thing they said they were not going to.

> Like you... "Not to be too
> particular" and then you go and be too
> particular.

> Why can't people just be brave about their
> actions...

Is there a fine line between being brave and being rude? Let me know your thoughts on this!

> Lisa... check the thread... you were the
> first one to tell us all you were an
> Adverising Exec. You were the first person
> to use a title.

You are absolutley right!! However, you were first to steer the original point of my post towards a discussion about titles.

> Oh goodie. Another fan. :o)

Not just yet, Mikey...I just enjoy having someone to debate with!

Lisa

> I'm more curious to know what it means to
> you.

It doesn't mean anything to me. That's why I asked what it means.

See. I don't play silly word games. If I don't know what something is I ask. Directly. A direct answer back is appreciated. And I thought I would get one from someone who says they write business letters.

> I didn't think anything in my original post
> started out hard...of course, I have been
> wrong before....

No. Nothing started out hard. I asked direct questions and got fog back.

> I would apologize for confusing you, but we
> both know that I would not mean it and that
> would give you further information to
> analyze and dispute wouldn't it? (certainly
> not to say that is a bad thing!) :)

Aw Jeez...

> Is there a fine line between being brave and
> being rude? Let me know your thoughts on
> this!

I can't be bothered.

> You are absolutley right!! However, you were
> first to steer the original point of my post
> towards a discussion about titles.

I asked what something meant. That is not steering. That is asking a direct question. IF you had bothered to answer directly, this sub-thread would not exist.

> Not just yet, Mikey...I just enjoy having
> someone to debate with!

Lisa, my name is Michael, not Mikey.

And if you call being evasive, not clarifying things you say when asked and "having a go" while trying to appear "nice," debating, then I must be from a different universe.

Michael Ross

Michael,

Sorry I don't respond in the way you feel that I should but I believe in just being myself.

I started out responding to a couple of posts that you were not even a part of. No problem as I know that forums are open for anyone to participate in the discussion and I'm always glad to respond and discuss things with anyone. But you were downright insulting while at the same time implying that the business that I was affiliated with was cheating customers.

Normally, I would probably have been insulted and prone to defend myself in a different manner if someone had made statements as you did. However, you plainly stated to me to put on my "thick skin" as some statements may be misunderstood. So, I took what you said with a grain of salt and responded back, to some extent, in the same manner that you did.

I have no intention of debating this with you any further, mainly out of respect for other members on this forum. However, I will say that, yes, I do claim to write business letters and unless I directly do not hold up to that claim, you have no right to insinuate otherwise...so tread carefully.

AFter reading several other posts from you in this forum, I have seen that this is not the first time you have been on the verge of being what I would define as insulting to other people. I participate in a few other forums and have never had this problem before; I can assure you the manner in which you respond to people does not give a good impression.

Lisa

Sounds to me like someone's chucking a tanty...

> Sorry I don't respond in the way you feel
> that I should but I believe in just being
> myself.

Good. We like it when people are themselves.

> I started out responding to a couple of
> posts that you were not even a part of. No
> problem as I know that forums are open for
> anyone to participate in the discussion and
> I'm always glad to respond and discuss
> things with anyone. But you were downright
> insulting while at the same time implying
> that the business that I was affiliated with
> was cheating customers.

See. This kinds of thing irks me. After all this... now you claim I was insulting. But then just leave it at that. No clarification HOW I was insulting... or an example of where this insulting took place. Just a blanket statement... "you were downright insulting" and then you run away... "I have no intention of debating this with you any further..." and then put on your good-guy badge... "mainly out of respect for other members on this forum."

I got news for ya... the forum loves threads where people go head to head.

As for "implying"...

I implied nothing. I stated I was doubtful. I was honest about it. And gave an example to show it. And I still stand by it. The Yellow Pages is a BIG organisation. It is impossible for one section to know what another section does. Jeez... even car salesmen don't know how much money the dealer makes when they sell a car below invoice - yes the deal makes money when a car is sold below invoice. You seem to have taken my doubt about the Yellow Pages quite personally. Odd.

> Normally, I would probably have been
> insulted and prone to defend myself in a
> different manner if someone had made
> statements as you did. However, you plainly
> stated to me to put on my "thick
> skin" as some statements may be
> misunderstood. So, I took what you said with
> a grain of salt and responded back, to some
> extent, in the same manner that you did.

Oh... now it's my fault is it... you were just responding back like I did. But hang on... a minute ago you just said... "I believe in just being myself"

So now you're tell me (us) you weren't being yourself?

> I have no intention of debating this with
> you any further, mainly out of respect for
> other members on this forum. However, I will
> say that, yes, I do claim to write business
> letters and unless I directly do not hold up
> to that claim, you have no right to
> insinuate otherwise...so tread carefully.

Again... I insinuated nothing. I was up front and open and said, "A direct answer back is appreciated. And I thought I would get one from someone who says they write business letters."

That is the truth. You see... a business letter is direct and to the point. Your answers were not. As you claim to write business letters I expected a business letter like response... direct and to the point.

WHAT do you think I am insunuating? (I told you... I don't play stupid games. I come right out and say something.)

> AFter reading several other posts from you
> in this forum, I have seen that this is not
> the first time you have been on the verge of
> being what I would define as insulting to
> other people.

Thank you for your views.

And please allow me to also inform you of how I see your posting...

Blah... can't be bothered informing you.

But if you had in fact read other posts by me, you would have noticed I state things plainly. I cannot be bothered with insinuation games and whatnot.

I participate in a few other
> forums and have never had this problem
> before;

What problem are you talking about?

Is that the problem of people (me) keep asking the question until you actually answer it?

So you are more used to people accepting the foggy waffley answer. Fine. So you know... I won't accept fluff answers when I want to know something. If that makes you THINK to answer... than I believe I have accomplished something.

I can assure you the manner in which
> you respond to people does not give a good
> impression.

That's what you think.

Other people are quite fine with the way I respond to them.

By the way... I am still waiting to find out what "did a number on me" means. (Guess I'll never find out now you have decided not to participate in this with me anymore. HA!)

Michael Ross