Here's why good ideas are lousy ideas...

[Dien Rice]

Originally Posted by -TW

I look fine. But -- I do look a wee bit odd, I guess you could say. I do not look 'typical.'

I look a little more like an artist type than an IBM man. This comes across no matter what clothes I'm wearing. Think Albert Einstein in a suit. I look NOTHING like AE -- but I give off that same 'boy genius' vibe. Which is GREAT if one approaches people who appreciate and are OPEN MINDED ENOUGH to see potential 'hidden helpfulness' in someone who's a little off center. Think a well-groomed, well-dressed Columbo type -- for lack of a better description.

Hi TW,

If you haven't read it, I suggest you read the book "Influence" by Robert Cialdini. (There are two versions out there, a "popular" version and a more "academic" version - either one is good.)

As you may know, Robert Cialdini is a professor of social psychology at Arizona State University, and did many studies "in the field" of the techniques people use to persuade. Often, this meant applying for jobs as a salesperson, and watching what the successful salespeople did, and also doing it himself!

Anyhow, he identifies six principles to success in sales...

1. Reciprocity
2. Commitment and consistency
3. Social proof
4. Liking
5. Authority
6. Scarcity

One of them, liking, is about - of course - how much people like you. If people like you, then you're more likely to make a sale...

One part of this that he talks about is that people tend to like other people who are similar to themselves. The more you are similar to them, the more they like you... and the more likely you'll make a sale.

That means, the more you dress like them, the more you talk like them, even how fast you talk - will affect your sales. A slow talker may not make sales in fast-talking places (like New York), but may make better sales where people tend to talk at a more leisurely pace. And of course, vice versa is true too.

The reason why I bring this up is because, based on what you said, you may not look like, or be like, your prospects. If they think you're too "different" - they may not want to buy from you. It has nothing to do with "logic" - it's purely an emotional reaction. There are two solutions - (1) either make a conscious effort to be as similar as possible to your prospects, or (2) only sell to people who are similar to you.

Anyway, take what you like from this... Just reporting what's in his book. I have found how you dress, how you talk, etc., can and does make a difference...

Of course, others have made excellent comments too. I've done some sales (I took a sales job for a few months mainly to get some "real world" experience), and I found what I learned on this forum over the years really helped me immensely...! To the extent that I even won sales competitions at the company I was working for, etc. It's not easy - it can be a real emotional challenge keeping a positive attitude when you get rejection after rejection. You can't take it personally. And I'm probably the farthest person in existence from a "natural" salesperson!

By the way, if you use humor, some advice I read once was to use self-effacing humor. Make lighthearted fun of yourself. People like that... It shows you're humble, and that you don't consider yourself "better" than them... People like to feel that they're superior, and that you "look up" to them... So trying to prove that you're "superior" and that they're "stupid" can be a losing game - nobody likes to feel stupid. Some politicians use self-effacing humor to great effect to "win over" the population with their charm... But that's a whole other post.

Best wishes,

Dien

[Dien Rice]

Hi TW,

Reading through what you've written, I get the feeling you want people to buy for "logical" reasons... Seems sensible, right?

There's a saying... "People buy from emotion, and justify it with logic." (I first read it from Joe Sugarman, though it's floating around various places...)

I believe in 99% of cases, it's true! The reason why they buy is primarily emotional. Then... They try to "justify" it with a logical reason. So you need both emotional as well as logical appeal.

Let me give you an example... I have a Macbook (currently not working, and very much missed - I still have to repair it... I'm writing this on an older Toshiba laptop). Why did I originally buy the Macbook? If I'm honest with myself, it's because I find it incredibly "sexy"! It's a beautiful looking machine... It's "cool". I've also used Macs in the distant past, and always thought they were "cool" too.

But... I also "justified" my purchase with logic. When I was considering to buy it, I thought... I can put Windows on it, and have 2 operating systems (both Mac OS X, and Windows)! So it's like two computers in one - and thus, a bargain! Voila! Sale completed!

The bottom line is - in 99% of cases, people don't buy on "logic" alone. Unless you also make the "emotional" sale, the sale probably won't be made.

Anyway, just a few thoughts... Take what you like from it.

Best wishes,

Dien

That's very helpful info.

Yes, I see how being like them helps. And how it's not logical (they should theoretically base their decisions on the actual *merits* of the offering (only)).

The are some who like + appreciate a little eccentricity -- but most don't.

Stomaching the rejection is part of the deal, I know. I don't mind getting blood from a stone. It's when I can't get even a drop, that it gets a little stomach churning. When there's NO heat coming from the other side of the door. When making calls yields the same results as not making calls. You get the picture.

As that book points out, unfortunately the actual merits of the offering are NOT what determines the outcome. Which was kind of the point of my op. Good ideas are treated the SAME as bad ideas, all else being equal. The fact that an idea is GOOD makes it no more 'sellable' than if it were a lousy idea.

It's OTHER factors that are all-important.

-- TW

[Ankesh]

Originally Posted by -TW

Also, note to Ankesh -- if they had used YOUR method(s) (aka passive), they would have gotten no ads, perhaps.

MillionDollarHomePage.com - sold a million dollars worth of ads within what - 2-3 months? He got 3000 people to buy the ads on his site. Out of those 3000 - he may have personally called upon maybe 8-9 folks to buy the ads in the initial days of his website.

So how did he get the other 2990 folks to buy ads? Yep. Buzz creation. Massive public relations.

-----

I'm not saying direct selling doesn't make sense. But direct selling alone is a harder route.

Its like the old fights copywriters used to have. One group only focused on long copy - facts and benefits. Giving strong reason why. Another group focused only on image building ads - branding - making their way into folks memory.

It wasn't until David Ogilvy came to the scene that both the fields got merged (somewhat). Ogilvy used the best tactics from both the camps. He stuck to reason-why selling. But also used gimmicks and anchoring techniques like using eye patches to sell shirts - to seep into people's memory.

The ad that tripled the annual sales of Hathaway shirts:
http://anke.sh/eyepatch-ad

I'm trying to make the same point here. Merge both the fields. Don't draw boundaries around different camps of marketing. Use the best ideas from both of them.

The question to ask is - what can the newspaper supplement do to sell 225 ads?

1. Publish a 64 page newspaper to fit so many ads.
2. Hire more folks to do the selling of ads.
3. Create themes. Like "green month" and so on. Easier to get advertising if you follow themes.
4. Give yearly discounts to merchants who buy ads to run throughout the year.
5. Track sales of 10-12 advertisers (teach them techniques of soft and hard tracking - depending on their situation - if their ads don't have any tracking device of its own). Create a book of case studies out of that. And then send that book of case studies to all the prospects before making your first call to them.
6. Joint venture with the local radio station. They promote the paper when they have no other ads to run. In turn - you promote the radio station in all the issues of the newspaper.
7. Follow up with advertisers. If you find out that they've had a good month - suggest them to write a press release announcing the fact. Or you could write a joint press release too (obviously giving more attention to the advertiser than to the paper.)
8. Organize a raffle or something. If folks subscribe to the newspapers - they can win a big screen TV. Increase the number of subscribers and the advertisers will automatically increase.

[MMacGillivray]

Hi, TW - you're giving yourself such a beating :O)

I wonder if you've ever stood on the other side of the counter? Have you worked in a retail/reception environment where you have to sell direct to the public - maybe this is where your forte is? (Someone once said that to me - and it was true!)

First of all, I like the products which we sell in our shop. I am confident of their quality, their design, their value for money. So, when people come in, it's so easy to allow them to do the buying. OK, there are a percentage who go away without anything. But that's a good thing. .... here's the reason why.

As a shopkeeper, I need people to come into the shop. I need them to look around quite thoroughly to see what's available. If they don't buy, at least they have seen what is on offer and they know exactly where to get it if and when they need it. Retailing doesn't work at all without the process of someone looking at our shop window and/or coming in to the store.

There are people who just want to do their own thing; who resent the intrusion and will be put off if you invade their space. Sometimes I like to shop like this; I just want to go into a store and pick up the items I need.

There are people who love personal service, whether or not they have any intention to buy. Some tourists will ask for help, allow you to tear the shop apart to show them everything remotely interesting and then buy a postcard. There are other people who will come in, ask for your help, and end up spending a lot of money because you're completely in tune with what they want.

Then there are the folks who are relaxed, interested only in a cup of coffee, but while in the store they will spot something which, like Dien's MacBook, just catches their imagination - and suddenly they've spent a huge amount of money for a cup of coffee!

We make friends out of our customers; we help them when they're stranded with heavy parcels, needing a lift home. (OK, that courtesy extends to the town boundaries, but you get my drift!) We order stuff specially for them, find out about products, do our absolute best to give good service.

That's one side of standing on our side of the retail counter. A different side is dealing with the sales people who call in. I hope we are courteous, but we don't always have the time or inclination to speak to someone if they turn up unannounced. If it's lunch time and the coffee shop is going flat out, it's the wrong time to do more than wave at me from the front door if you're hoping to sell me something. Then, if you do get to speak to me, you have to allow me to make the decision on whether or not your products are suitable for our store. It's my money I'll be spending.

However, if I say "No, it's not for us." then I'm quite likely to be helpful if a rep asks "Where's a good place for me to try?" Now that's useful to you because I know the town, I know the types of businesses because I keep an eye on my competition, so I can probably suggest a good fit for your product.

As a buyer, I amn't going to buy because of the logic of the product itself. I am going to buy something because I think it will add value to my offering to my customers. Also, as a retailer, I have found that if the product isn't good enough for me to buy (ie sale or return goods), then they're just not good enough to waste our valuable shelf space. I amn't going to spend money on advertising if my budget is already spent for the month or the year. But I might be seduced by a special offer if the price is right for a last minute ad.

I don't know if this helps you or not; you have to be able to "transmogrify" into the other person because you have to know and understand his or her problem.

Margaret

ps, I did try direct sales a couple of times - and was well out of my comfort zone. However, one thing I did learn out of it was that you maybe ought to call back again a few days or weeks later to see if there is a change of heart. It takes a bit of organisation to follow up, but assuming that a decision is a lifetime event can be an expensive mistake. Even if you leave every type of contact information possible, people lose it, bin it, shred it - or file it in the attic, so it is up to you to put your head above the parapet and give it one more try.

pps. It could be a good idea sending a thank-you card to prospects after you've seen them, especially the ones who didn't buy, especially if you chose a postcard or greeting card which is memorable.

Originally Posted by -TW

That's why I seriously DOUBT claims from certain 'entrepreneurs' I keep hearing about. ESPECIALLY ones that claim they get results from GOING DOOR TO DOOR (b2b). Do you have ANY idea what the 'slam-the-door-in-your-f'ing-face' quotient is? (given the above stats).

Face to face marketing in a local market is the best method. But you don't do this expecting to make a sale every time, you do this to build a relationship. From what I've read of your posts it seems that the people you contact must be "in" or they're "out" -- and I daresay you've slamming the door on your way out. You mentioned in one post, that you even got a little rude with one woman on the phone, when you couldn't talk to her husband.

That's a no, no. You never slam a door -- always leave it open.

Years ago when I started my Used Car website, I visited some of the the local dealers numerous times before I got the order. Once they had gotten to know me, I'd drop by with coffee and donuts during their slower times when they didn't have much to do. We would chew the fat about the business in general. Once in a while they would ask about "so-and-so" down the road 'cause they had heard it through the grapevine that "so-and-so" had signed up with me. Well... local marketing... everyone knows everyone in the same niche, so you can't make up stories... even if you wanted to.

So you'd say "Well, Mr. Smith made an extra $3,000 last month from sales generated by the website.Hey that's pretty good isn't it? Considering it only cost him $150. He's pretty savvy!"

Now this guy had said "no" four or five times before, so I didn't even make him an offer. Through relationship building I had simply steered the conversation in the direction I wanted to go. I had made my point, so I looked at my watch and told them I would have to go as I had an appointment elsewhere.

This is taken right out of "How to win friends and influence people" where you don't sell... you assist the prospect in making the decision to buy. As I'm going out the door, they thank me for the coffee and donuts, and ask when I can drop by with more donuts. We all chuckle, and I leave.

See... it isn't always about the product or service you're trying to sell. Yes... they want to make more money (everyone does), but they also want to do business with people they know and like. If the KNOW you and they LIKE you, then all you need to do is make it EASY for them to work with you.

I had a call from these guys about a week later and they said they were thinking about signing up. I went to their dealership with more coffee and donuts. They were concerned about contracts and stuff...

I said it wasn't any problem. I'd put 8 of their cars on the website for one month at no charge to them just so they could test the waters. A month later they had sold three of them and were begging for me to take their money and put more of the cars on the site.

"Do you want to live like a pig? Or... buy a Filter Queen?"

That kind of attitude either gets you a sale, or you're out the door and you won't be invited back. Trust me... I've been down that road too ;-)

Best Regards,
Steve MacLellan

"GOOD" Salespeople can easily SELL...GOOD Ideas!

Whether an "Idea" is Good or Bad is NOT determined by WHO is trying to Sell it. The "Value" or "Worth" of an Idea is determined by how it Benefits the End-User.

Those Ideas that provide MANY Good Benefits to end-users, can be called "Good" ideas. And...if an InExperienced Sales Person has a hard time trying to Sell it...does NOT mean the Idea is "Lousy"!

I just read TW's experiences in trying to "sell" the "TV Channel Guide" program and I feel compelled to "Speak Up" for the army of "Sales" people who earn a good living, selling Good Ideas....via "Cold-Calling".

Granted...I do NOT have a clue as to what TW looks like, what his voice sounds like or what his personality is ....or....what his Sample looks like that he is showing potential advertisers....how he is Presenting the program...or, how he is Pricing...or even...how he is "trying to Close" the sale.

I can understand TW's frustration but...because of his inexperience, his "problems" do not mean others have the same results.

I've been successfully "Selling" the TV Channel Guides for some time. I made up Samples and a Presentation and a way to present the Prices...that have worked for me in HUNDREDS of Sales of these products.

This last Sunday (today is Tuesday) I saw an ad for a new Pizza Delivery biz in my town. I immediately thought it would be a good prosepct for my TV Channel Guide program.

Yesterday morning at 9am, I went over to the 80 room motel that is near the new pizza biz. I brought some of MY Samples I've used in other motels. I asked the front desk clerk what's the First Name of the GM. She told me and I asked if he was IN. She said he is in and what my business was. I told her I'd like to "Show him something" and "Ask him a question".

She disappeared and about a minute later, here comes the GM. I introduced myself, handed her a Sample and asked her, "if she would have any objection to placing them in all her rooms if they were free to her"?

Note: Take a look at the question I asked. Can you see the "psychology" involved? Can you see what "Answer" I'm looking for?

I want the GM to answer with a "No!"....which means, "YES!" to me!

She agreed.

This "little" marketing technique took me some EXPERIENCE (and a number of Cold-Calls on GMs) to discover how to easily get the GMs to agree to let me put my Guides in their rooms.

The SAME with Paying Advertisers.

I immediately went over to the new Pizza biz....went in the back door (His hours on the front door said he opens at 10am)...asked to see the owner, who was pointed out to me as the guy making round dough balls.

I walked over...introduced myself and asked if I could "Take A QUICK Minute to Show him Something". He grabbed a towel, wiped off his hands and turned to face me.

I handed him one of my samples, explained that the Pizza Bizzes on my samples were VERY HAPPY with the bizness they are getting from my Guides. Explained that I had just gotten permission from the GM at the 8o room motel down the street and that, since he was new, I'm offering him FIRST SHOT at having HIS Pizza Ad in ALL 80 of those rooms. Having HIS Pizzas being seen by 60 to 80 HUNGRY people who did NOT bring food with them.

I told him my prices...while at the same time...picking an "Ad Agreement" out of the back of my 3-ring Sales Binder...and started writing HIS Business Name at the top of my Form.

NOTE; I learned thru "Trial and Error" of MANY attempts at closing, HOW to handle the "Close". I do NOT, "Ask" if he'd like to order! I ASSUME he wants to order by starting to write up the order.

If he responds with, "Hey! I didn't say I was going ahead with this! (They usually don't) I stop writing and ask what his question is...answer his question and continue writing....hand him a copy and tell him to, "Make Your Check Payable to AdVantage Marketing".

I COLLECT CHECKS! I AM NOT THERE TO "MAKE FRIENDS"!

And...after getting his check I went next door to a Gift Shop...sold the owner on a Space on the Back. Went across the street to a real estate office, asked to speak to the "Principal Broker"...sold him.

This morning (Tues) I went to a Mexican Restaurant, asked to see the owner. I was told he's out and would be back in about an hour. I asked, "Where's he usually park and What Color is his car?"

I then went over to "Antique Mall"....found the owners (a couple)...closed them for an Ad on the Back...went back to the Mexican Rest...saw the owners Black & Silver Truck in HIS parking space...went in and sold him.

Thus...in 2 days...I made 5 "Sales Calls" (Motel GM, Gift Shop, Realtor & 2 Restauranteurs)....found them ALL in....made FIVE Sales Calls ($790 on front $1500 on Back) ....HOWEVER....I've been doing this for many years.

So....the "Idea" is STILL "GOOD"....ALL people involved will Benefit!

The Motel provides information to their guests and appears "more professional" and...prevents some calls to the front desk (where can I get a Pizza? When's Check-Out Time? When's the Pool Open? etc. All info printed ON the TV Channel Guide)

The Advertisers show their businesses to a "Captive Audience".

And "I" benefit from having CASH from more clients.

So...."Good Ideas" MUST be "Sold" by "GOOD" Salespeople.

And...understand ONE thing;

Magazines, Newspapers, Radio & TV Shows would NOT exist if it weren't for business paying for ADVERTISING....SOLD to them by "Good" Salespeople who DON'T have to contact many prospects to "sell" their quota.

Don Alm...."SALES" person

I'm on YOUR side.

But -- good salesperson or bad salesperson -- makes no difference.

Good idea -- bad idea -- makes no difference.

The prospect's "incoming new idea FILTER" is set on "KILL!" as the default setting.

The salespeople for advertising (radio, mags, etc.) do have a DIFFICULT job -- and they do get HUNG UP ON + TOLD TO GET LOST waaay more than not.

There can be no denying that.

THAT'S what my thread was about. Lamenting that the filters are set on "KILL!" as the default. Unfortunately that is the natural hurdle ALL salespeople (good or bad), and ALL ideas (good or bad) must find ways to overcome.

And there's also the other 'natural' problem of having the right person be "IN" when you show up.

-- TW

Granted....the tuffest part of any sale is, "Giving your spiel to the one who can "write the check"!

Finding the Owner in IS....my biggest problem.

And, the reason why I'm responding (taking a break from making up the Ads for the Clients I sold yesterday & this morn)....is your comment about "Filters";

The prospect's "incoming new idea FILTER" is set on "KILL!" as the default setting

THAT'S what my thread was about. Lamenting that the filters are set on "KILL!" as the default. Unfortunately that is the natural hurdle ALL salespeople (good or bad), and ALL ideas (good or bad) must find ways to overcome

Maybe it's the way I "phrase" things when talking to prospects I want to give my Pitch to but....only rarely do I meet business people, ESPECIALLY NOWADAYS, who, "Set Their New Idea Filter to "Kill""!....heck....the people I contact are OPEN to ANY "Ideas"...New or Otherwise.

Their business has been cut in HALF and if this guy coming thru their door with the 3-ring binder, has an "Idea" that MIGHT pull me thru this economic calamity....I'M READY TO LISTEN...EVEN THOUGH I REALIZE HE'S GOING TO TRY AND SELL ME SOMETHING!

And....the "Poor" folks who I do come across, who "won't even listen"...put up their "New Idea Filter" or Raise Their Lead Shield....I ask, "WHY prolong the Agony?"...."Close the Doors and Sell your Stuff, Before the Sheriff does!"

Again....these folks are, nowadays, few and far between.

And...of those who have "filtered me out"....I keep track of and...sure nuff, in a few weeks or months...there's a New Sign on their door...."FOR LEASE"!

Also...maybe in bigger cities the "New Idea Filter" is up, because they get hassled so much....but...in the small towns I work in....there's an "Openness" that I haven't felt before.

I can "sense something in the Air".....it's called "FEAR"! FEAR of what our own Gummit is trying to do to us!

Don Alm....Sales man

Don -- you said...

And...of those who have "filtered me out"....I keep track of and...sure nuff, in a few weeks or months...there's a New Sign on their door...."FOR LEASE"!

... and I AGREE!!! I know this + you know this. For biz's, it's either grow or die. And the surest way to DIE, is to NOT grow -- and that is 'accomplished' by SHUTTING OUT all incoming ideas!

I think the 'reasoning' to killing all incoming ideas (WITHOUT EVEN looking at them) is they are PETRIFIED of being wrong -- making a wrong move. Therefore (they figure), if I don't make ANY move(s), I can't possibly make a WRONG move.

It's much easier to NOT take the time (+ BRAINS) needed to JUDGE which incoming ideas have merit, and which are duds -- it's much easier to just KILL ***ALL*** incoming ideas.

It may mean missing out on being right -- but it also GUARANTEES I won't make a mistake!

What they don't realize is, they are CLOSING THEMSELVES off from the ideas that COULD allow them to grow (also)!

Sad.

You know it -- and I know it -- but, unfortunately, THEY don't know it.

-- TW